Labor theory of value with regard to crowns and other medical shit

[Ostrinski]

So I have to get four crowns (artificial teeth) replaced next month (recently found out the guy who did them is in prison, he's a scam artist, I never even needed them and he did a half-ass job). I also have to get seven cavities filled. This is going to end up being around 8,000 dollars. Insurance is paying for a bulk of this, but why are medical procedures so expensive?

Surely the productive labor put into the total of all this is far less than the productive labor put into 8,000 dollars worth of books or clothing? Or am I misunderstanding part of the LTV?

[Blake's Baby]

You're misunderstanding part of it certainly.

The 'proletariat' is so called because it is a class that has no property but its children - 'proli' is offspring, and it's thought that in the Roman Republic, assessors would list the children of those without land on the census; their property was therefore 'proli'.

Anyway; the point about wages is that they are the cost of replacing the worker, the value-equivalent (as labour-power is a commodity) of the socially-necessary labour time to replace (exchange) that commodity.

It takes a lot longer to train a dentist than it does a road-sweeper. The children of dentists (who might be expected to become dentists) need good schools and university degree. It takes like 25 years. The children of road-sweepers (who might be expected to become road-sweepers) need to be able to hold a brush while walking. They can leave school at 15 and no-one cares.

So it's the culmination of the process that lands you a massive fees for (badly done) dentistry. The total expenditure on labour power over the time it takes to train a dentist is factored into the wage bill you pay through your fees, because to replicate him/herself, your dentist needs a lot more resources (social investment) than a road-sweeper.

Of course, it's the lure of the massive fees that lures in crooks and charlatans. One hardly ever hears of fraudulent road-sweepers.




And I'm sorry to hear about your dental woes. Glad to see you're thinking of it as an essentially political problem!

[Rafiq]

Prices are never equal to the labor value of the commodity. However, what's important, is that when the commodity becomes less in price than it's labor value, the buisness fails.

But, supply and demand have a lot to do with it.

[Ostrinski]

You're misunderstanding part of it certainly.

The 'proletariat' is so called because it is a class that has no property but its children - 'proli' is offspring, and it's thought that in the Roman Republic, assessors would list the children of those without land on the census; their property was therefore 'proli'.

Anyway; the point about wages is that they are the cost of replacing the worker, the value-equivalent (as labour-power is a commodity) of the socially-necessary labour time to replace (exchange) that commodity.

It takes a lot longer to train a dentist than it does a road-sweeper. The children of dentists (who might be expected to become dentists) need good schools and university degree. It takes like 25 years. The children of road-sweepers (who might be expected to become road-sweepers) need to be able to hold a brush while walking. They can leave school at 15 and no-one cares.

So it's the culmination of the process that lands you a massive fees for (badly done) dentistry. The total expenditure on labour power over the time it takes to train a dentist is factored into the wage bill you pay through your fees, because to replicate him/herself, your dentist needs a lot more resources (social investment) than a road-sweeper.

Of course, it's the lure of the massive fees that lures in crooks and charlatans. One hardly ever hears of fraudulent road-sweepers.Ah, I didn't take into consideration the aggregation of all labor that goes into dentistry, just the raw physical power necessary to complete a given task. I didn't take necessary skill or dexterity into account. Thank you for going into detail.


And I'm sorry to hear about your dental woes. Glad to see you're thinking of it as an essentially political problem!Can't tell if this is a jab or not. :blushing:

[Ostrinski]

Prices are never equal to the labor value of the commodity. However, what's important, is that when the commodity becomes less in price than it's labor value, the buisness fails.

But, supply and demand have a lot to do with it.What other factors, besides the degree of productive labor materialized in a commodity (value), determine price?

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I'm in the process of reading Capital for the second time, the first time I just skipped over all the parts I didn't understand. I'm going about it more studiously now.

[EvoMorales]

Surely the productive labor put into the total of all this is far less than the productive labor put into 8,000 dollars worth of books or clothing? Or am I misunderstanding part of the LTV?

It appears to me you're getting hung up on the concept of "simple average labour". To become a dentist requires extensive training and high levels of aptitude and IQ. Moreover, given our social norms, being a doctor carries an above-average social expectance with it. This, being point one, equals a greater cost for a dentist's labour-power.

Second is the medical equipment and supplies which go into the procedure itself. There is certainly a demand for dentistry, but not at the same level as book binding and so on. Consequently, if we examine the production of the various capital which goes into a dentistry practice - that is the dead labour - its value is also higher because the socially necessary labour that went into it is above social norm.

[Blake's Baby]

Ah, I didn't take into consideration the aggregation of all labor that goes into dentistry, just the raw physical power necessary to complete a given task. I didn't take necessary skill or dexterity into account. Thank you for going into detail.

Can't tell if this is a jab or not. :blushing:

Sorry Bro', missed this before. Is 'jab' a pun given that you're probably having injections?

But no, I wasn't getting at you - I put a lot of my personal woes down to '... because capitalism is shit'. Pretty much everything that's crap in my life gets blamed on capitalism, sometimes even the weather. It makes me feel better about my life and the world when other people seem to be doing it too.