I may give up Christianity

[Elysian]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity. But I still can't get myself to live without a purpose, or a purpose that only revolves around worldly goals, however noble they may be. I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

So what's the religion for me?

[Искра]

Become Satanist... they have good music! And Lucifer was first anarchist since he told God to fuck off....

6XOu4DAxZKA

[Krano]

Science and Astronomy?

[rylasasin]

Turn to Desim, perhaps?

That way you can still have your belief in god, just without the religious propaganda or unscientific & inhumane "holy word" bullshit.

[El Chuncho]

If you think you do not have a purpose in life now you have ditched YHWH, you probably should ditch leftist activism too... or pretending to be a leftist at least.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

How much more of this troll will we have to put up with? Why is he immune to even a restriction? Is he Malte's brother or something? :mellow:

[danyboy27]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity. But I still can't get myself to live without a purpose, or a purpose that only revolves around worldly goals, however noble they may be. I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

So what's the religion for me?

You dont need religion to hang on to.

But if you are looking for some sort of philosophy, just tell yourself that like is short, that every second count.

Its much more exciting to live in a world when you know there is nothing on the other side.

[Hit The North]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity. But I still can't get myself to live without a purpose, or a purpose that only revolves around worldly goals, however noble they may be. I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

So what's the religion for me?

Why can't you generalise the arguments against Christianity to all religions and forms of mysticism? Or if you have not reconciled yourself to the absence of a mystical realm, why are you considering abandoning Christianity? It is no more absurd than any other religion.

[daft punk]

Jesus was a communist, a Trotskyist in fact. Woe to the rich and so on.

[The Young Pioneer]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity...So what's the religion for me?

You can keep your religion AND your left political ideology. But, if you were so easily swayed, you were probably actually agnostic in the first place (and "making up for that" by spewing your pro-Jesus rhetoric all the time).

I'm not sure what your faith (or lack thereof) should have to do with Revleft - or, for that matter, your political views - So I don't think you've really learned yet anyways.

I'm a Christian. But so what? That doesn't make me some homophobic, right wing anti-Marxist science-hater.

People are always trying to make a grey world black or white. Blows my mind.

[hatzel]

Why is he immune to even a restriction?

He's restricted...for being a preachy bigot, if I remember rightly, which might have something to do with this "oh no not any more no no," I dunno...

[Rusty Shackleford]

Jesus was a communist, a Trotskyist in fact. Woe to the rich and so on.
probably why he was a terrible communist and all his followers since then have been rabid anti-communists :lol:

[CommunityBeliever]

So what's the religion for me?If Christianity is unbelievable for all the rational arguments against it, what makes you think that any other religion is going to be more acceptable? All religions are based upon faith rather then evidence and there are arguments against all of them.

If you need something extrawordly, religions can give that to you but it will be a lie. The people that actually study space outside our planet are astronomers. We have discovered that much of our universe is dark matter, which we still don't understand, so there is plently left out there to be discovered and explored.

[Misanthrope]

Science is way cooler to read about anyway because it's real. The Bible is pretty shit fiction anyway, I don't know why it's so popular. The only real entertaining part was when that sociopath was betrayed and was nailed to a giant t. Or when they thought that guy was dead but he was really just chilling in a cave the whole time, that was funny too.

You will feel much better once you start being intellectually honest, you won't feel guilty for "sinning". You'll be able to further your studies and understanding of the world once you free yourself from this unproductive thinking.

[Искра]

Sience is sience not religion.... :rolleyes:

[Zukunftsmusik]

I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

How can it be both "otherworldly" and non-theistic?

[Decolonize The Left]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity. But I still can't get myself to live without a purpose, or a purpose that only revolves around worldly goals, however noble they may be. I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

So what's the religion for me?

Simple (http://www.venganza.org/).

- August

[dodger]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity. But I still can't get myself to live without a purpose, or a purpose that only revolves around worldly goals, however noble they may be. I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

So what's the religion for me?

I think Christianity has given up on you, Elysian. You are only meant to put money into the plate. In England we would have burnt you at the stake long ago. We are not interested in ideas, ideas are dangerous. Stop spouting them at every bloody opportunity. I'm 64yrs of age, never had a single idea in my life. Surely you can see the harm it is doing to you. Aren't your family driven to distraction? Do you have friends at college? Do they run away? I don't hear anyone saying join our tendency. Even the pedos won't have you. Get off and enjoy life, start a few minor vices. Smoking is tops. Get a urinary infection. Crash your dads car. Phone the fire brigade to next doors house. Develop an eating disorder.

Elysian for the 4th and final time I have to say you are INCORRIGIBLE

[Blake's Baby]

Worship dodger, he's tops, and has some of the same letters in it as 'god'. And 'red'. Wow, dodger is an anagram of 'red god', which is great thing to worship if you're going to be a theistic or somewhat mystical leftist.

[Registered User]

Go muslim comrade

[The Jay]

Assign your own meaning to life; things only have value if you think that they do. Learn more philosophy, look at evidence. Make logic your guide. That's what I did when I turned from Catholicism. Admittedly, I did have one rough time reconstructing my world view as I was very devout. I fell into a depression and had suicidal ideation for a while. Now I'm starting to see things as valuable and good in and of themselves. I know that it's hard, but you can do it!

[RGacky3]

Asking people on revleft (or any other political forum) or even an internet forum, for personal spiritutal guidence is the dumbest thing you can do.

[Ostrinski]

Expand your skepticism of Christianity to all other faiths, that's the point. The point isn't to make an argument against Christianity outside of the context of religion in general, that would be futile. Recognize religion itself as a social construct that will become obsolete once its use-value is null.

You can be theistic and non-religious. If you need a god to get you through the day or whatever, it doesn't mean you have to subscribe to a specific dogma. In time you will learn to be self-sufficient and rely less and less on your god, and it will become obsolete and useless to you.

[Drosophila]

I still don't understand the argument that if someone rejects religion that they are living "without a purpose."

[Bostana]

Well giving up Christianity could be the wisest choice do to recent events.

However you can still be a Deist. Fidel Castro was a deist and he once leaded the closest thing to a Communist country

[Rafiq]

I know, I know, you're looking for a new Ideological, Ethical, and spiritual framework to compensate for the abandonment of Christianity.

I'm going to have to dissapoint you when I say: Stay the fuck away from the Eastern Spiritualism shit (Taoism, Buddhism, etc.). Many formerly religious turn to them, as a means of expressing their religious "Freedom", their abandonment of "Western violence", etc.

Eastern Spirituality is, and was just as much of an instrument of the ruling classes as Christianity. It's an ideological trap, you'll end up a Liberal with your head up your ass. At least Christianity has a radically selfless egilitarian militiant attitude, if anything.

If you want to ditch Christianity (If you were previously religious) you may very well have to temporarily abandon Anarchism. Anarchism does not provide you with an adequate structural framework for understanding the material world. Become a Marxist, study materialism, get into radicalism. Than, afterwords, perhaps, if you wish, revert back to being an Anarchist. The Anarchism you adhere to, isn't exactly compatible with Radical Leftist Anarchism, anyway.

[Aloysius]

You could always ignore that gaping hole in your heart and fill it with Marxist literature.

That's always a good idea.

[godlessfilthycommiedog]

I understand that sometimes the upheaval of oppressive dogma is difficult. You may at first become depressed, believing life is empty, and that it has no meaning. That, unfortunately, is still true. But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. When I became an atheist I could listen to anything I wanted, read anything I wanted, watch anything I wanted. It was a liberation, it was a revolution inside of me. I became a pessimist, and, surprisingly, I've never been happier. Since I know life has no meaning, I enjoy it to the fullest, and since I know my days, and the Earth's as well, are numbered, I literally live as if it was my last day alive, and take risks, as opposed to praying for every single fucking little thing to happen just exactly as I wanted it to. So you see, life is beautiful like this. If you still don't think you're ready, I'd suggest deism, which was kind of a transitional phase for me. Don't worry, it'll be alright, you'll move on, and you'll learn to appreciate your healthy skepticism. :D

[artanis17]

I'd say go with Satanism.. It will purify you... Then you ll become selfless and a good person... God is playing with us like sims computer game... And satan is trying to help us

[9]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity. But I still can't get myself to live without a purpose, or a purpose that only revolves around worldly goals, however noble they may be. I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

So what's the religion for me?

eat some mushrooms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushroom).

[eric922]

Well assuming the OP isn't trolling, which is possible, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt, I consider myself a Buddhist, since it is a non-theistic worldview that has helped me deal with a lot of problems in my personal life. I also like how it encourages questions and opposes dogmatic blind faith. Also, it can be as mystical or as "worldly" as each person wants since there are so many different interpretations.

Honestly, though it doesn't really matter what religions you choose as long as you don't let it get in the way of aiding the working class. Religion can be a tool of the ruling class, but it does not have to be. Though I'm not even sure Buddhism is a religion, I don't view it as one, but that's just me.

Honestly though, I think Rgacky probably gave the best advice of any of us. Asking for spiritual guidance on the internet is generally not the best move.

[El Chuncho]

He's restricted...for being a preachy bigot, if I remember rightly, which might have something to do with this "oh no not any more no no," I dunno...

Didn't see that happen. Its a good thing too, but a bit late.

[roy]

You either believe in something or you don't. Belief can't be switched on and off at whim.

[Zostrianos]

If you're spiritually inclined, I would recommend something more mystical, like Hermetism.

If you're leaning toward atheism, Buddhism is your best bet. In its original form it is purely a philosophy of life with nothing supernatural to it, but it's a great system that shows a way to live better in this life and actually delivers (as opposed to Christianity, which promises a blessed afterlife but nothing in this life....).

Satanism I can't recommend. Classical Satanism (the Laveyan Church of Satan kind) is just an ultra-materialistic philosophy, where you're encouraged to indulge all your instincts and appetites for self gratification, without restraint - Satan is merely a symbol or embodiment of this. Unless of course, you're very individualistic, in which case it may be for you.

[El Chuncho]

Eastern Spirituality is, and was just as much of an instrument of the ruling classes as Christianity. It's an ideological trap, you'll end up a Liberal with your head up your ass. At least Christianity has a radically selfless egilitarian militiant attitude, if anything.

Though I am an atheist/agnostic, I'd take Eastern Religions (Dharmic to be more correct) over Christianity. At least you have to, theoretically, be a good person in those religions due to the concept of Karma, respect for all life and charity. In Christianity you can be as shitty as you like and still be save due to your belief in god, and (having been to a fundamentalist church with a friend whilst in America) I can tell you that many Christians sects are very anti-human with an extreme hatred of Earth, the real world. It also has an illogical and vile eternal hell, something no Dharmic or (to my knowledge) Chinese faiths have. Hinduism also has an atheist school in its Astika (''Orthodox'') philosophies - Samkya. Christianity doesn't really have anything comparable to it, atheism is a sin.

Buddhists and Jains do not bow down and worship a king like Christianity does. Their leaders really ceased to exist after parinirvana, they simply follow them like teachers.

Also the Mauryan Empire, which became the first Buddhist Empire after Ashoka's conversion, was at least more progressive than any of the Christian empires. And the Hindu kingdoms allowed science to flourish whereas the Christian kingdoms suppressed scientific discoveries and executed many great scientists like Galileo.

Maybe Dharmic faiths do make you liberal, but, using the same logic, if one sticks to the correct (and by that I mean ''traditional'') interpretations of the Bible you'd end up like Salazar. Anyway, the point is moot as there have been some Buddhist communists such as most Laotian communists... and you can have Christian communists and anarchists too, of course, but Calvinism doesn't really fit with any leftist position and it would take a lot of work adapting it to a leftist ideology. Probably why Elysian trolls with it as an ideology.

But all religions shouldn't counteract communism, they should be made to fit with it.



If you want to ditch Christianity (If you were previously religious) you may very well have to temporarily abandon Anarchism. Anarchism does not provide you with an adequate structural framework for understanding the material world. Become a Marxist, study materialism, get into radicalism. Than, afterwords, perhaps, if you wish, revert back to being an Anarchist. The Anarchism you adhere to, isn't exactly compatible with Radical Leftist Anarchism, anyway.

I agree with this.:cool:

[El Chuncho]

If you're spiritually inclined, I would recommend something more mystical, like Hermetism.

http://www.japanstyle.info/wordpress/wp-content/images//20111202_photoblog_yamabushi.jpg

The hats are to die for. :cool:

[Franz Fanonipants]

syncretism

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Religion is the opium of the people, and no one wants to see you on drugs.

Good advice: leave all supernatural religion and focus on growing your faith in humanity and the working class. :thumbup1:

[Franz Fanonipants]

Religion is the opium of the people, and no one wants to see you on drugs.

get the quote right

it's opiate

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

get the quote right

it's opiate

You get your facts right: "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes"

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm

[Bostana]

I'd say go with Satanism.. It will purify you... Then you ll become selfless and a good person... God is playing with us like sims computer game... And satan is trying to help us

So wait, If God is evil and Knows everything. He would know if Satan would turn on him and try to "help" people. If God knew that Satan would defy him why would he create him?

And if Satan were trying to be Good I recommend loosing all the evil looking crap.

[GoddessCleoLover]

How come no one has mentioned The Bahai Faith?

[Franz Fanonipants]

How come no one has mentioned The Bahai Faith?

allies of israel

[Zostrianos]

How come no one has mentioned The Bahai Faith?

They're also social conservatives: they're against homosexuality and sex outside of marriage, they forbid adherence to political ideologies, and they're forbidden from taking alcohol or drugs.

[Franz Fanonipants]

They're also social conservatives: they're against homosexuality and sex outside of marriage, they forbid adherence to political ideologies, and they're forbidden from taking alcohol or drugs.

plus they're smug

but then again

[Prometeo liberado]

How about faith in mans ability to build a just earth, on earth. Let heaven take notice and follow. Tell god you're just setting a good example.:D

[dodger]

Religion is the opium of the people, and no one wants to see you on drugs.

Good advice: leave all supernatural religion and focus on growing your faith in humanity and the working class. :thumbup1:



Clear spring water, Elysian....drink your fill.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

How come no one has mentioned The Bahai Faith?
My mother is a bahai, actually. Some of her bahai friends are socialists.

[Valk0010]

If your asking that question, I wonder how persuaded you actually are to give up christianity. Follow the evidence, the existential stuff comes later.

[Franz Fanonipants]

How about faith in mans ability to build a just earth, on earth. Let heaven take notice and follow. Tell god you're just setting a good example.:D

"neither will they say 'look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold the kingdom of Heaven is in the midst of you"

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Jesus was a communist, a Trotskyist in fact. Woe to the rich and so on.

How do you see this? You very well may be right, but how can I show Jesus' Trotskyist politics to family members who are Christian fundamentalists? And if the Lord was a Trotskyist, I hope he wasn't a Mandelite. I hope even more that He (God forbid)wouldn't have gone with the Ted Grant split.

Also, if Jesus was a Trotskyist, why did AJ Muste leave the movement after he had his religious experience in France? Wouldn't Jesus have told him to stay with the SWP?

[dodger]

How do you see this? You very well may be right, but how can I show Jesus' Trotskyist politics to family members who are Christian fundamentalists? And if the Lord was a Trotskyist, I hope he wasn't a Mandelite. I hope even more that He (God forbid)wouldn't have gone with the Ted Grant split.

Also, if Jesus was a Trotskyist, why did AJ Muste leave the movement after he had his religious experience in France? Wouldn't Jesus have told him to stay with the SWP?

All burning questions of our movement......LENINA....Lucky for British workers, we have the clay tablets brought down to us by Gerry Healy. From atop of Highgate HILL. On certain nights of the year wailing can be heard "Oh Marx, Why hast thou foresaken the WRP!!"

[seventeethdecember2016]

I'd suggest Deism.

[manic expression]

For most of human history, religion was an eclectic thing. You borrowed from various traditions what you liked and added it to your own, creating an individual way to approach divinity. I suggest heeding that example and looking to different religions and seeing what resonates. If, in that process, you feel like you find a tradition that speaks to you, then explore it further.

[Franz Fanonipants]

For most of human history, religion was an eclectic thing. You borrowed from various traditions what you liked and added it to your own, creating an individual way to approach divinity. I suggest heeding that example and looking to different religions and seeing what resonates. If, in that process, you feel like you find a tradition that speaks to you, then explore it further.

it still p. much is.

even though i'm catholic i for sure have learned a lot about God from my Muslim and Jewish friends.

i have learned nothing from dirty protestants though.

[Crux]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity. But I still can't get myself to live without a purpose, or a purpose that only revolves around worldly goals, however noble they may be. I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

So what's the religion for me?
I hear opium is quite nice actually.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

My mother is a bahai, actually. Some of her bahai friends are socialists.

Interesting. I've wondered about the Bahai view of socialism. Both movements have similarities-they seek a world transformation, but both also seem to have major differences. I posted a questoin about this once o0n Yahoo Answers.

According to "Gleamings", one of the main books used by the Bahai Faith, someone asked Bahu'allah, "should I join the Socialist Party?" The answer was "the Bahai Faith comprehends all degrees". In other passages Baha'ullah seemed to disapprove of unions and seemed to advocate a reformed capitalism.

If you don't mind me asking, and if you wish to share this, are your Mom's friends activists? Are they in specific organisations? Do they have difficulty combining their politics and their religion?

[Natural American Spirits]

Jesus was a communist, a Trotskyist in fact. Woe to the rich and so on.

All the more reason to ditch Christianity.

[Bostana]

Jesus was a communist, a Trotskyist in fact. Woe to the rich and so on.

Jesus was Marxist-Leninist.
Haven't you read the Bible?

John 3:16:
"For God so loved the world he sen his only begotten son to spread the teachings of Marx and Lenin."

[Deicide]

After reading all the arguments against it, I may give up Christianity. But I still can't get myself to live without a purpose, or a purpose that only revolves around worldly goals, however noble they may be. I need something otherworldly to hang on to, but it cannot be theistic (or I may run into the same problem I encountered in Christianity).

So what's the religion for me?

What's the point of abandoning one delusional view of the world for another delusional view of the world?

[hatzel]

What's the point of abandoning one delusional view of the world for another delusional view of the world?

Hey hey the people in this thread saying Jesus was a Marxist were only kidding they're different I tell you!

Yes this thread is lost...

[Raúl Duke]

become a transcendentalist, explore nature, eat shrooms, drop acid, find "meaning."
Or just deal with the fact that there aren't any eternal universal truths and meaning is mostly constructed.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

They're not mutually exclusive. One could come to the conclusion that the universe offers us no external meaning. Then one could be free to create their own meaning.Hallies, or anything that changes your seretonin levels, may actually aid in this quest.

[Franz Fanonipants]

become a transcendentalist, explore nature, eat shrooms, drop acid, find "meaning."
Or just deal with the fact that there aren't any eternal universal truths and meaning is mostly constructed.

i do both. still a catholic. whuuuu

[black magick hustla]

i became an atheist when i was 10 and the dumb woman in sunday school told me people who dont believe in god can't be good.

[RGacky3]

i became an atheist when i was 10 and the dumb woman in sunday school told me people who dont believe in god can't be good.

An atheist told me something dumb once, so I became a theist (not really just making a point).

[black magick hustla]

An atheist told me something dumb once, so I became a theist (not really just making a point).

i wasnt making a point, i was stating why i became an atheist. This was not just some "dumb xtian" anyway, she was the teacher at a fuckin sunday school. i don't care about cross lickers and their pro-life wingnuts like you anyway

[black magick hustla]

How come no one has mentioned The Bahai Faith?

ahahahaha i met one and he was the biggest weiner ive ever met in my entire life.

[RGacky3]

I was making the point that becoming an atheist because a theist said something dumb is pretty dumb.

[black magick hustla]

I was making the point that becoming an atheist because a theist said something dumb is pretty dumb.

:shrugs: not when you are like 10 brah

[RGacky3]

I suppose so.

[RedAnarchist]

I was making the point that becoming an atheist because a theist said something dumb is pretty dumb.

He was ten. I seriously doubt he was ever a devout Christian, but more likely just paid lip service to his parent's religion simply because he had no choice in the matter.

[RGacky3]

point taken

[Elysian]

Thanks for all the replies. Most of you are rude, but some of you have made good contributions.

Anyway, I've decided to keep Christ but add meditation, reincarnation to it. That way, I'll have a combination of eastern mysticism and western logic. It would still be Christisnity mostly, but it will have an exotic touch.

[dodger]

" YER CAN'T BE...."OVER-INSURED" .....as my uncle would say, even in a middle of a film.
Small wonder he was Salesman of the Year 27 yrs running. He could empty a room quicker than an evangelical.

Well I hope Him upstairs is in a good mood to hear, he can be very vindictive. Especially how you slunk off like that and became a full blooded Anarchist. Heaven and reincarnation. Makes sense to me. I did not notice people being rude to you, if that was the case, I bet they must be feeling pretty ashamed of themselves. I said you were incorrigible on another thread today. I can't say it twice on the same day , now can I ?

[RGacky3]

I still think asking for spiritual advice on an internet board like revleft is just silly, its like asking a vegetarian where to get a good stake.

[Yuppie Grinder]

When religious people argue that life is meaningless without a god they're saying that life can only have meaning if that meaning is decided for you and forced upon you by a master.