Value & pricing

[Yazman]

So I was having an argument about price gouging the other day with an ancap friend of mine, and he claimed that there is no such thing as price gouging, and that any pricing is justified and ethical as long as people are willing to pay it. It seemed like a pretty shitty argument but I didn't have anything on hand to argue against it within the framework of a price system (which I am of course totally opposed to ideologically, given that I advocate abolition of both market and price systems altogether).

However within the framework of a price system I didn't have much really to argue against it, although I am sure there are mainstream arguments against it given that intrinsic value isn't universally accepted.

But yeah, can anybody help me here? How do you make an ethical argument when somebody consents to something? My point was that for many goods there isn't a choice, although he claimed that those situations are unusual and that there is nothing unjustified or unethical about charging high prices for say, consumer goods, or entertainment, or 'non-essential' goods or services, as long as people are willing to pay.

Thoughts?

[Blake's Baby]

Exploitation is exploitation. The level of price charged by the capitalist is merely a measuring of exactly how heavy is the boot crushing your face.

I really don't think it makes much of a difference. Once the surplus-labour has been extorted from the worker, the price the capitalist gets is incidental. There is no 'fair price'. This is capitalism after all, the whole system is bloody racket.

[Dunk]

Whether or not some commodity's price closely reflects it's true value isn't really of any concern in the scheme of considering social revolution. What do I care if the price of some commodity is vastly overinflated while I can't find sustainable employment? Even if I did find sustainable employment, I'm going to spend my time doing something I'm coerced to do, being used like an expendable piece of equipment.

I think a lot of us get lost in these arguments sometimes. It doesn't matter. It's "right against right." It's a struggle. You don't convince someone through argument to participate in the real movement to abolish capitalism. They are convinced by the conditions they find themselves in. This is why prosleytizing for communism is a waste of time.

[Yazman]

Exploitation is exploitation. The level of price charged by the capitalist is merely a measuring of exactly how heavy is the boot crushing your face.

I really don't think it makes much of a difference. Once the surplus-labour has been extorted from the worker, the price the capitalist gets is incidental. There is no 'fair price'. This is capitalism after all, the whole system is bloody racket.

Thanks, that actually says it quite well. I hadn't thought of it in this light.


They are convinced by the conditions they find themselves in. This is why prosleytizing for communism is a waste of time.

Yeah that's why I generally don't do it, although I do try to point out various economic, political & social issues that are problematic.

[Blake's Baby]

I'd disagree with Dunk in a way. Some people really don't realise that the boot is crushing their face. Pointing it out I think is helpful. Sometimes.

And sometimes people (or, some people) do learn from rational argument rather than direct circumstances. I was convinced that the police were an organisation of class rule before I was ever beaten up by one. In fact, I've never been beaten up by one. So I don't think propagandising for communism is pointless, though I also don't think that class struggle equates to 'all we have to do is find the perfect argument then print 3 billion copies of it and job done'.

[Dunk]

I'd disagree with Dunk in a way. Some people really don't realise that the boot is crushing their face. Pointing it out I think is helpful. Sometimes.

And sometimes people (or, some people) do learn from rational argument rather than direct circumstances. I was convinced that the police were an organisation of class rule before I was ever beaten up by one. In fact, I've never been beaten up by one. So I don't think propagandising for communism is pointless, though I also don't think that class struggle equates to 'all we have to do is find the perfect argument then print 3 billion copies of it and job done'.

You have a point. As I think back on my own personal anecdote, my disillusion and disgust with the state of affairs came from my experiences, while I owe my understanding of political economy (which is never good enough) to struggle and theory developed by others.