Slave Reparations?

[Richard Nixon]

Do you support reparations for the descendants of the slaves? And if so which former slave groups should it be paid considering almost all ethnic/national groups in history have been enslaved by another group at one time or another?

[Prometeo liberado]

The best, most equitable reparations that a society could give is a system that could never again perpetuate slavery in any form, at home or abroad.

[#FF0000]

And if so which former slave groups should it be paid considering almost all ethnic/national groups in history have been enslaved by another group at one time or another?

idk about the question of reparations but thiiiiiissss shit is so out of touch that i am angry at you for being stupid.

I'm Irish. Some Irish people were enslaved and forced to harvest sugar cane. What effect did that have on me as an Irish-American? Fuckin' none. Meanwhile, slavery of Africans in America proooobably had a pretty huge effect on the people who suffered under it as well as the children of those who suffered under it -- and that's if we ignore the continuous and overtly racist policies that affected people through the 20th Century, and lingering racism that still affects people now.

So yeah, as for reparations, I don't know how much good they'd do honestly -- but jesus christ what a stupid way to frame this question.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Richard Nixon is obviously hostile and trying to use a wedge issue to create a split between blacks and the white working class. For the record, IMO Jbeard has formulated the best response to this wedge issue attempt.

[Ostrinski]

The smashing of bourgeois society would probably suffice imo.

[Misanthrope]

The fight to end slavery isn't over, chattel or wage it is the same beast. Reparations shouldn't even be discussed because it still exists.

[Lobotomy]

Reparations wouldn't solve anything. but shit, I don't care. if some group of people in the US is going to get money for no reason, I'd rather it be black people as opposed to company subsidies, or rich fuckers in the form of tax breaks

[bugsbunny]

Do you support reparations for the descendants of the slaves? And if so which former slave groups should it be paid considering almost all ethnic/national groups in history have been enslaved by another group at one time or another?

Of course not. This is so ridiculous. You want the descendents of slave owners to pay descendents of slaves? The descendents neither suffered slavery nor inflict it. Besides, blacks in America have white blood in them.

[RGacky3]

I don't believe in slaver reperations, but what DOES need to be recognized is the historical implications of systemic racism and slavery.

[Ose]

The descendants of slave owners bear no responsibility for the horrific actions of their ancestors. Any idea that they do is based purely on the bourgeois notion of the nuclear family. There is no way, long after the event, to right the wrongs of slavery. (I don't think any mention of wage slavery is constructive here, as capitalism is assumed as a premise for the discussion.) The best we can do is to confirm our opposition to it and to ensure that nothing like it ever happens again.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I believe there should be reparations, not an an individual basis though and not to correct some moral injustice of the past, but to have money spent on services in poor historically black neighborhoods (though not exclusive to only black people) and reverse they systematic impoverishment of blacks in the US. Actually, let me correct myself, I don't believe there "should be", I think working class people should fight to win reparations for poor black communities.

Oh, right, you probably don't believe that there was systematic racism. Red-Lining, education inequality, sub-prime mortgages, racial income and hiring inequality, the defunding of schools in cities, the conscious removal of suburban tax revenue from the city center, racial profiling leading to disproportionate incarcerations. These are all issues that are in effect (or have ongoing effects) today and can be easily reversed by stopping the transfer of wealth out of working class areas and to things like tax breaks and "business incentives" for the rich. Rather than using these funds for prisons and police, all worker's lives would be better if there were reparations paid to fund city schools, programs for the unemployed, housing, etc.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Do you support reparations for the descendants of the slaves? And if so which former slave groups should it be paid considering almost all ethnic/national groups in history have been enslaved by another group at one time or another?

No, slavery didnt reduce these people to poverty.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Do you support reparations for the descendants of the slaves? And if so which former slave groups should it be paid considering almost all ethnic/national groups in history have been enslaved by another group at one time or another?

You'd probably have to go pretty far back to find the time period when my people (the Anglos) were enslaved on a wide scale. We've been running the streets all night and day for the past five hundred years or so. :closedeyes:

[dodger]

My late wife was unequivocal,,,,a woman of some refinement until vexed..."Too little, too late". Besides the acceptance of which, would in her own words "mark me as a permanent victim." I had no quarrel with that, none at all. For myself, it seemed patronizing and vaguely sinister. Though if any who benefited from the slave trade want to dig into their pockets and pay up? Still know what her reaction would have been "Stick it up yer arse!" Sounds about likely!"

[RGacky3]

I believe there should be reparations, not an an individual basis though and not to correct some moral injustice of the past, but to have money spent on services in poor historically black neighborhoods (though not exclusive to only black people) and reverse they systematic impoverishment of blacks in the US. Actually, let me correct myself, I don't believe there "should be", I think working class people should fight to win reparations for poor black communities.


I totally I agree, I think it should be juts for all poor people, many of whome ARE black and ARE poor partially due to systemic racism.


Oh, right, you probably don't believe that there was systematic racism. Red-Lining, education inequality, sub-prime mortgages, racial income and hiring inequality, the defunding of schools in cities, the conscious removal of suburban tax revenue from the city center, racial profiling leading to disproportionate incarcerations. These are all issues that are in effect (or have ongoing effects) today and can be easily reversed by stopping the transfer of wealth out of working class areas and to things like tax breaks and "business incentives" for the rich. Rather than using these funds for prisons and police, all worker's lives would be better if there were reparations paid to fund city schools, programs for the unemployed, housing, etc.

Exactly.

We arn't having reperations, not even close, its reverse reperations. Black people, Poor whites, Hispanics are continually being activle excluded from opportunity and economic life.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I totally I agree, I think it should be juts for all poor people, many of whome ARE black and ARE poor partially due to systemic racism.Well I think this would happen in effect anyway because even though many US cities are sort of de-facto segregated on a neighborhood basis, rebuilding schools in, for example, working-poor areas of Long Beach Ca are going to improve the lives of the people in the black neighborhood as well as people in the Latino or Asian neighborhood a mile or two away as well as all the non-black people sprinkled in to the predominantly black neighborhoods.

But I think it's important to put an emphasis on reparations for poor black neighborhoods for the reason that while the whole class is oppressed, blacks are singled out and in order to build a united class fight, we also have to address the inequality within the class where working class unemployment might be officially 9% or whatever but the black official unemployment is double that etc.

It's also kind of an hypothetical debate anyway because there isn't currently a great deal of organizing for reparations right now. If such a movement did emerge it could be more nationalist in nature or it could be more class conscious and so that's why I conditionally support reparations and argue for a more class-based arguement for repartations rather than an individualist "cut everyone more that 1/4 black in family background an equal check" kind of approach.

[not your usual suspect]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/reperations-slaveryi-t149656/index.html?t=149656
I don't believe that wealth should be inherited. I don't believe in original sin. I don't believe that what happened 200 years ago is nearly as relevant as what happened yesterday or is happening today.

I believe that there is injustice. I believe there is a solution.

I believe the solution is world wide socialist revolution, to bring about an equitable society where all are free, and none are bosses or in charge.

I believe that reparations is the wrong fight. Yet I believe we should take what was stolen back!

[Prometeo liberado]

Of course not. This is so ridiculous. You want the descendents of slave owners to pay descendents of slaves? The descendents neither suffered slavery nor inflict it. Besides, blacks in America have white blood in them.
So the blood of a white man running through ones veins automatically cleanses you of the horrors of slavery right? Wow I can't believe how stupid the rest of us are not to have seen racial cause as the answer. No offense but your to stupid to be online.(OK admin bring on the infraction)

[Nox]

There should be no reparations for anyone. Period.

[dodger]

There should be no reparations for anyone. Period.


No discrimination, has to start somewhere. Nox.

[kuros]

No because slavery does't exist anymore.

[blake 3:17]

There should be no reparations for anyone. Period.

I keep thinking you two are joking but I think I'm wrong.

@JH
It's also kind of an hypothetical debate anyway because there isn't currently a great deal of organizing for reparations right now. If such a movement did emerge it could be more nationalist in nature or it could be more class conscious and so that's why I conditionally support reparations and argue for a more class-based arguement for repartations rather than an individualist "cut everyone more that 1/4 black in family background an equal check" kind of approach.

I supported the reparations movement when it was going on. Most of it was campus based and generally in the right direction.

I think it important that "legitimate bodies" recognize historical injustices and allow them to be considered true and worthy of discussion. The Canadian Conservative apology about the racist residential school system that most native peoples here went through was very gladly received by people who had been through the schools themselves or had family or friends gone through it. It was important to establish the basic fact of injustice.

How we overcome the gross social injustices perpetuated by such a system will take much longer.

An immediate step in the case of African slavery would be the cancelling of African and AfroCarribean nation's debt to the United States.

[Hermes]

I don't think there should be any reparations, because no one is a slave anymore (in the traditional sense). In the same way that I think it's ridiculous for sons to inherit their father's transgressions or for sons to inherit the wealth of their parents, I think it's ridiculous to believe that there is some kind of cultural debt that has to be paid back to the descendents of those who were injured. For one thing, there are way more African Americans now then there were before, and it would be impractical.

I guess an answer easier to relate to would be why we shouldn't be proud of the country we're born in, simply because we were born here.

[#FF0000]

I don't think there should be any reparations, because no one is a slave anymore (in the traditional sense). In the same way that I think it's ridiculous for sons to inherit their father's transgressions or for sons to inherit the wealth of their parents, I think it's ridiculous to believe that there is some kind of cultural debt that has to be paid back to the descendents of those who were injured. For one thing, there are way more African Americans now then there were before, and it would be impractical

Except it's not about any cultural debt or anything like that -- the point of reparations (i assume) would be to help give black people a sort of leg-up for the disadvantaged position slavery (and everything after that) put them in.

But uh, I don't know how effective that'd be in that sense anyway so.

[Homo Songun]

Corporations that were built with African slave labor:

Aetna
CSX
Canadian National
Union Pacific
Norfolk Southern
Brown Brothers Harriman
JP Morgan Chase
Bank of America

Sources:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0922-33.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/02/21/slave-railroads.htm

Of course, there are many Japanese and German firms around today that used slave labor during Fascism as well.

[dodger]

No because slavery does't exist anymore.

I do take your point kuros, I agree. At the same time if I might add, slavery does in fact exist still in numerous places across the globe. So far better to address the current issues, if we are to be at all relevant. A more fitting response to the crime of centuries.