Fifth Iranian Scientist killed by the C.I.A.

[Bostana]

Another Iranian scientist has been assassinated in Iran by a car bombing. This is the fifth Iranian scientist targeted in Iran during the past two years. This is a dangerous escalation of the covert activities conducted by the CIA and Israeli intelligence and their domestic spies in Iran against the government and people of Iran.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stated, “I want to categorically deny any United States involvement in any kind of act of violence inside Iran.” However, both the Israeli and the U.S. governments have admitted to covert activity in Iran. Irrespective of the actors, the assassination of law-abiding scientists living and working in Iran is a reprehensible act that should be condemned by all.

The fact is that the governments of the U.S. and Israel have declared Iran to be their enemy and have publicly stated that they will use all means possible, up to and including military attack, to stop the production of nuclear energy in Iran and to change the government of Iran. To this end, they have admitted to:

• Using hacking to disrupt nuclear energy facilities in Iran

• Conducting covert operations in Iran

• Deploying spy drones to Iran

• Imposing draconian sanctions and embargo against Iranian oil exports, banking and trade

• Deploying U.S. nuclear super carrier battle groups with destroyers and nuclear submarines to the Persian Gulf

• Threatening Iran with military attack

• Planning to hold in January the largest ever joint military exercises with Israel

[Rusty Shackleford]

did this happen today? do you have a link?

[The Cheshire Cat]

Another one?! Absolutely disgusting this is!
Unbelievable how they get away with it every time. I hope, when the war comes, US and Israel will bite the dust. It would give a very interesting twist to the 'history to come'.

[Bostana]

did this happen today? do you have a link?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/world/middleeast/iran-outrage-over-scientist-killing-deepens-as-it-signals-revenge.html

http://blogs.cfr.org/zenko/2012/01/12/iranian-scientists-and-u-s-targeted-killings/

[Rusty Shackleford]

oh ok i figured this was the same one that happened last month.

[Bostana]

oh ok i figured this was the same one that happened last month.

That one was the Fourth One who was also killed by the C.I.A.

[Lobotomy]

This might be a dumb question but, is this really effective in combating Iran's efforts to develop nuclear weapons? Can't they just always hire scientists from elsewhere?

[Bostana]

This might be a dumb question but, is this really effective in combating Iran's efforts to develop nuclear weapons? Can't they just always hire scientists from elsewhere?

Shhhhhhhhh

Don't let C.I.A. Intelligence figure that out.

[GoddessCleoLover]

The bombings are generally regarded as more likely the work of the Israelis than the CIA.

[Bostana]

The bombings are generally regarded as more likely the work of the Israelis than the CIA.

The C.I.A. is working with the I.D.F for the bombings

[Threetune]

This might be a dumb question but, is this really effective in combating Iran's efforts to develop nuclear weapons? Can't they just always hire scientists from elsewhere?

With respect, that’s not the point. The point is that imperialism driven by its own economic contradictions is unavoidably and consciously dragging the whole world into a war drenched hellhole. All these ‘wars’ are in fact just one world war all against humanity for the salvation of a rotten stinking busted system of exploitation. Just pick your side and work for the defeat of your main enemy.

[Bostana]

With respect, that’s not the point. The point is that imperialism driven by its own economic contradictions is unavoidably and consciously dragging the whole world into a war drenched hellhole. All these ‘wars’ are in fact just one world war all against humanity for the salvation of a rotten stinking busted system of exploitation. Just pick your side and work for the defeat of your main enemy.

With Imperialism comes Capitalism and in a Capitalist society the starting of a War is a starting in Business.

[Threetune]

No, you argument is like the shallow stuff about “they’re only after the oil”.
What imperialism is after is the wholesale destruction of ‘surplus’ capital and labor in order to restore profitability, for the 'victor'.

[gorillafuck]

The C.I.A. is working with the I.D.F for the bombingshow do you figure?

Israel is propped up by the US but the Mossad is perfectly capable of doing things like this on it's own.

[Bostana]

how do you figure?

Israel is propped up by the US but the Mossad is perfectly capable of doing things like this on it's own.

They wouldn't do it without American Help knowing that it would cause trouble they would have America at their back.

Plus there was evidence of American presence:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/01/14/iran-holds-us-uk-accountable-for-assassination/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45996368/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/iran-we-have-evidence-us-behind-scientist-slaying/#.TzrZek6vfpA

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Mossad is more than happy to do this kind of activity without American help. Mossad is an autonomous organization which knows how to make someone dead just as well as the CIA does. The USA also wants to "solve" the problem using non-military methods because a war would cause an oil shock which would derail the American economy. It would be a good pretext for the US government to resort to Keynesian economic intervention in the light of American reluctance to do such things but the costs are just too great. Israel on the other hand has less to lose by going to war and more to lose from another Middle Eastern country having nuclear capability, and so is more willing to risk a war. America's main role is as a categorical defender of Israel's interests, which mean that any assassination by Israel has a reduced risk of retaliation thanks to American protection.

Also the recent attempted assassinations of Israeli envoys in India, Georgia and now possibly Thailand indicate that Iran is fingering Israel more than the USA.

[manic expression]

Also the recent attempted assassinations of Israeli envoys in India, Georgia and now possibly Thailand indicate that Iran is fingering Israel more than the USA.
Yes, that's right, use this as an excuse to argue that Iran is somehow imperialist and that it's no different than US and Israeli imperialism. :rolleyes:

[kuros]

點点点貓猫猫蟲虫虫舊旧旧会会萬万万盜盗盗寶宝宝國国国醫医医

[Renegade Saint]

This might be a dumb question but, is this really effective in combating Iran's efforts to develop nuclear weapons? Can't they just always hire scientists from elsewhere?
There's a finite number of nuclear scientists in the world, and the number who are willing to work on Iran's nuclear program is even smaller.

Regardless, the point of terrorism isn't simply to destroy strategically important targets, it's to terrify those still living into submission.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Yes, that's right, use this as an excuse to argue that Iran is somehow imperialist and that it's no different than US and Israeli imperialism. :rolleyes:

:confused::confused::confused: did I say anything that would make you indicate that? On the contrary, this isn't "Imperialism" it's just covert retaliation to Israel's covert assassination. Just because I think Iran is an Imperialist country, it doesn't mean that everything I say about Iran is necessarily or trying to prove that point or pin an "equal" amount of "blame" on the problems of the Middle East.

You should not be so quick to jump to conclusions about what other people think.

[manic expression]

If you think Iran is imperialist, then do you think it's any better or worse than US imperialism when it comes to the interests of Iranian workers?

[kuros]

說文解字/说文解字

[sithsaber]

If you think Iran is imperialist, then do you think it's any better or worse than US imperialism when it comes to the interests of Iranian workers?

Better or worse isn't the point; the Iranians aren't saints. They are interested in self preservation, and will go to pretty extreme lengths to ensure survival( the same principal can be used for Israel). They are no good guys in the middle east. The Iranians, the Saudis and the Israelis all suffer from some pretty sinister vices. Not one of those countries has the moral high ground (Israel has Palestine, Saudi Arabia supports wahabism, and Iran is an odd theocratic like state that has no problems supporting Syria)

(But then again Israel doesn't really hate Assad either, and Saudi Arabia has a history of crushing political movements.)

[manic expression]

You seem to suggest there's no difference. I say that the sovereignty of a country is a "good guy". Iranian scientists being murdered is just one example of that.

[Bostana]

So basically Imperialists are killing Iranian scientists to take out the competition.
Seems fair
Not Really

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

If you think Iran is imperialist, then do you think it's any better or worse than US imperialism when it comes to the interests of Iranian workers?

Worse, of course ... for Persian workers at least. If Iran were invaded by the US, it would be a catastrophe for the world, but one shouldn't have any illusions about the nature of the Iranian regime either. They aren't all just evil people looking to screw everyone else over ... but the State there is based on a self-interested ruling class just like all other States, and their self-interest is contrary to that both of the Iranian workers and the workers in the region long term. That the US is a dominant power which could easily overwhelm Iran is critically important to note when it comes to American aggression towards Iran, but I don't want to support their government any more than I would have supported either the Italians, the Ottomans the Qing dynasty, or any other weak or marginal Imperial powers at the turn of the 20th century.

The main issue regarding US power is the fact that they are the world's most powerful state, and as such any Imperialism by the US tends to be on a much greater scale than that of any other country ... thus the US can afford to occupy two countries at once, something no other nation could afford to do right now. This is because the US, like Britain before it, has the commanding heights of the global economy. As much as anything else it has more material incentive to intervene around the world. But this is subject to change, and it doesn't change the nature of the various regimes competing with it for power.


So basically Imperialists are killing Iranian scientists to take out the competition.
Seems fair


Nobody is saying anything about "fair." I personally think its very unfair that Israel thinks it gets to have atomic weapons and hide them from the world while complaining about Iran's program. But expecting nation-states to play fair is like expecting an untrained dog not to eat food left on the ground.


You seem to suggest there's no difference. I say that the sovereignty of a country is a "good guy". Iranian scientists being murdered is just one example of that.

I view the issue in a metaphysical sense quite differently ... countries don't have sovereignty, people have sovereignty over the government that claims to represent them. On the other hand, the murder of Iranian scientists is at face value objectionable and something which should never happen. We should focus on Israel's violation of the lives of the scientists instead of the violation of Iran's "sovereignty". The scientists and their families are the real victims, not some social institution build around a military elite and a dubious clerical hierarchy.

[kuros]

私は、イランが、労働者の状態ではありませんので、我々がイランをサポートしていないことを考えると、毎日 その人々を抑圧

[artanis17]

Earth sucks without KGB

[Bostana]

Ain't no Doubt About it.

[svenne]

Sweet. The lesser nukes, the better. As i wrote in the other thread on the subject: it's bad enough with one theocratic right wing dictatorship with the bomb. Two is... even worse. And propably an invitation to a self-glowing middle east. That's not particularly progressive. Also, i'm pretty sure that both the US and Israel knows an attack on Iran would destabilize the whole region beyond bad for both of them. They're pretty much just trying to stop the Iranian nuke program, rather than prepare for an attack. Iran has a population much larger than both Afghanistan and Iraq, and propably a lot more modern russian weapons, than Iraq. It's just not worth it. That said, air attacks is a possibility. But a ground invasion? No. Just no.

[manic expression]

Worse, of course ...
Agreed. Let's keep that in the forefront of this issue.

[Threetune]

Sweet. The lesser nukes, the better. As i wrote in the other thread on the subject: it's bad enough with one theocratic right wing dictatorship with the bomb. Two is... even worse. And propably an invitation to a self-glowing middle east. That's not particularly progressive. Also, i'm pretty sure that both the US and Israel knows an attack on Iran would destabilize the whole region beyond bad for both of them. They're pretty much just trying to stop the Iranian nuke program, rather than prepare for an attack. Iran has a population much larger than both Afghanistan and Iraq, and propably a lot more modern russian weapons, than Iraq. It's just not worth it. That said, air attacks is a possibility. But a ground invasion? No. Just no.

Before we go any further, you have absolutely no evidence and nor does anyone else, that the Iranian government has a program for building “nukes” (the common term for nuclear weapons) Like the big lie about “weapons of mass destruction” used to frighten the gullible petit-bourgeois of the west into support for the invasion of Iraq, this bullocks about Iranian “nukes” is now being got up again around the US presidential elections where the contestants are vying with each other about who is the biggest fascist warmonger.

And if you want to talk about a “theocratic right wing dictatorship with the bomb” and you do, then look no further than the demented bloodthirsty US imperialist ruling class with it’s “nuke” war ship USS Abraham Lincoln provocatively sailing up and down the Iranian Straits of Hormuz and flying their drone spy planes over Iran. That right there is the harbinger of a “… glowing middle east” and it’s that above all, “That’s not particularly progressive”, as you say, and nothing to do with anything Iran is doing.

You’re right about one thing - “… the US and Israel knows an attack on Iran would destabilize the whole region…” but it won’t be “beyond bad for both of them” at all. The entire point and purpose of imperialist presence is precisely to “destabilise” the region.

And the whole foul business is being supported again by ‘left’ liberal racist fear of foreign “theocracy”, letting their own, right wing oppressive and crisis ridden dictatorship rulers off the hook every time.

[Threetune]

An imperialist armada of twelve ships off the cost of Iran in support of terrorist agents inside the contry,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17027768 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17027768)


“For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the ***** that bore him is in heat again.” Bertolt Brecht

[Threetune]

The unelected ‘Heritage Foundation’ is jubilant about its influence on the allegedly ‘democratically elected’ House Foreign Affairs Committee which recently declared:

“The Iranian regime has formed alliances with Chavez, Ortega, Castro, and Correa that many believe can destabilize the Hemisphere. These alliances can pose an immediate threat by giving Iran—directly through the IRGC, the Qods force, or its proxies like Hezbollah—a platform in the region to carry out attacks against the United States, our interests, and allies.”

Here is one gang of conspirators agitating for stronger action against Iran and the masses internationally.

http://www.heritage.org/about/board-of-trustees (http://www.heritage.org/about/board-of-trustees)

Maybe the ‘left’ in the US can start some useful exposure work on this threat to peace and democracy, instead of simply joining in with them??


Edit: Could start with:
The Chairman
Thomas A. Saunders III, Heritage Trustee Since 2005
Prior to founding Saunders Karp & Megrue, a private equity firm, in 1990, Mr. Saunders served as a managing director of Morgan Stanley & Co.

[Threetune]

Iran tells crisis ridden imperialists pirates and terrorists and their ‘left’ apologists to fuck off. Good!

TEHRAN, Iran -- Iran claimed Wednesday that it has achieved two major advances in its program to master production of nuclear fuel, a defiant move in response to increasingly tough Western sanctions over its controversial nuclear program.
In a further show of resistance to international pressure, state media reported Iran was taking steps to cut oil exports to six European countries in retaliation for new European Union sanctions, including a ban on Iranian oil.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/15/iran-loads-own-fuel-rods-into-research-reactor/ (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/15/iran-loads-own-fuel-rods-into-research-reactor/)

[Threetune]

The arrogant bellicose domineering super imperialist ambitions of the US ruling class in relation to its dealings with Iran will be causing concern, not least among rival ‘allies’.

“The White House press secretary Jay Carney says such "defiant acts" show that Iran's leaders are under pressure.”


On the contrary Mr Camey it is the politically correct Camelot style Obama presidency that is now also under massiv pressure as this piece confirms.

“TAIPEI, Taiwan—American attempts to get major Asian importers of Iranian oil to rein in their purchases are faltering as allies South Korea and Japan give U.S. officials a polite brush-off. Emerging giants India and China may even increase their purchases, further complicating Washington's efforts to force Iran to curtail its nuclear program."


The US defiantly has overwhelming military power, but others ‘nations’ have lives to live and are all always considering living in a world without being humbled by the once mighty dollar.

[blake 3:17]

and their ‘left’ apologists to fuck off.

Where are the left apologists in the article?

[~Spectre]

The most recent assassinations were carried out by the MEK, after being armed, trained, and paid by the Mossad.

The U.S. actually wasn't in favor of it, which is why senior officials "outed" Mossad to the NYtimes, and then cancelled a joint war games that were scheduled to take place.

[~Spectre]

If you think Iran is imperialist, then do you think it's any better or worse than US imperialism when it comes to the interests of Iranian workers?

Iran begged to join the U.S. imperial team after 9/11. Your defense of the vicious Iranian government is still as reactionary in this thread as it was in the other.

[manic expression]

Iran begged to join the U.S. imperial team after 9/11. Your defense of the vicious Iranian government is still as reactionary in this thread as it was in the other.
Iran isn't in the imperial team, but thanks for playing. And when you start employing arguments a bit more substantive than meaningless, context-less labels like "vicious", let me know.

[~Spectre]

Iran isn't in the imperial team

Not on the U.S. one, but it's not for a lack of Iranian trying.

Instead, they engage in their own projects, scattering their murderous IRGC throughout the middle east, as well as participating with their set of Russia and Syria.

[svenne]

Before we go any further, you have absolutely no evidence and nor does anyone else, that the Iranian government has a program for building “nukes” (the common term for nuclear weapons) Like the big lie about “weapons of mass destruction” used to frighten the gullible petit-bourgeois of the west into support for the invasion of Iraq, this bullocks about Iranian “nukes” is now being got up again around the US presidential elections where the contestants are vying with each other about who is the biggest fascist warmonger.

And if you want to talk about a “theocratic right wing dictatorship with the bomb” and you do, then look no further than the demented bloodthirsty US imperialist ruling class with it’s “nuke” war ship USS Abraham Lincoln provocatively sailing up and down the Iranian Straits of Hormuz and flying their drone spy planes over Iran. That right there is the harbinger of a “… glowing middle east” and it’s that above all, “That’s not particularly progressive”, as you say, and nothing to do with anything Iran is doing.

You’re right about one thing - “… the US and Israel knows an attack on Iran would destabilize the whole region…” but it won’t be “beyond bad for both of them” at all. The entire point and purpose of imperialist presence is precisely to “destabilise” the region.

And the whole foul business is being supported again by ‘left’ liberal racist fear of foreign “theocracy”, letting their own, right wing oppressive and crisis ridden dictatorship rulers off the hook every time.

I can find evidence for it, you can find evidence against it. Nobodys gonna be happier about it anyway. I still think it's a better idea to blow up a couple of scientists than bombing, or god forbid, invade the country.

Yeah, i looked at Israel, point still is that i think there's more than enough countries with nukes today. You know, the whole doomsday thing. I'm pretty sure i'm rather living in this crapsack world, rather than the world of The Beach.

I don't think the US wants more destabilization in the Middle East, since it makes it more expensive to be there. Last time i checked, the US was kind of going broke - mostly thanks to two stupid wars. And by the way, there's a lot more grayscales than being for an invasion or wanting Iran to have the bomb.

[Threetune]

If you or anyone else could find evidence for Iranian “nukes” you would. Until then you will go on repeating the lie passed to you by the imperialist propaganda networks. But you will go one better and give it a ‘left’ liberal hand-wringing spin about peace and international brotherhood etc. How the ‘Heritage Foundation’ etc must love you guys.

[freepalestine]

Iran seems an unlikely culprit for the attacks on Israeli diplomats
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/15/iran-israeli-diplomats-attacks

[Threetune]

“Policies of terror and intimidation yield wars; diplomacy and dialogue yield peace and stability. It is time that this fundamental logic of international politics is enforced in west Asia and north Africa. To that end, the case for reconciliation has to be made continuously and emphatically, especially during periods of massive rage and trepidation. We are exactly at such a decisive juncture. It is all the more imperative then that intellectual acumen and analytical sobriety prevail over the resurgent pro-war lobby.” ; Arshin Adib-Moghaddam (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/arshin-adib-moghaddam)guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/),

It is exactly not; “diplomacy and dialogue” that will “yield peace and stability.” The only thing that can prevail over “the resurgent pro-war lobby” (crisis ridden imperialism) is revolutionary defeat after revolutionary defeat of imperialist intrigue all the way to complete dictatorship of the proletariat internationally. Until that is understood and acted on by the ‘lefts’ and workers generally, there will be no end to the already existing mayhem. It will only get worse without a return to this crucial Leninist theoretical understanding.

[svenne]

If you or anyone else could find evidence for Iranian “nukes” you would. Until then you will go on repeating the lie passed to you by the imperialist propaganda networks. But you will go one better and give it a ‘left’ liberal hand-wringing spin about peace and international brotherhood etc. How the ‘Heritage Foundation’ etc must love you guys.

Oh for the love of Lenin... I have no idea what you're talking about after the first sentence.

[Threetune]

Oh for the love of Lenin... I have no idea what you're talking about after the first sentence.

You should read some more Lenin. And study the world as it is instead of how you want it to be.