i'm not okay with chris brown perform at the grammys and i'm not sure why you are

[bcbm]

http://hellogiggles.com/im-not-okay-with-chris-brown-performing-at-the-grammys-and-im-not-sure-why-you-are

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Yeah that is fucked up! I feel personally offended as someone who is a domestic abuse survivor.

[kuros]

1. I dont give a shit about the grammys
2. I believe in forgiving people

[ВАЛТЕР]

1. I don't give a shit about the grammys
2. see above.

Why isn't he in prison? Oh yeah, he has money. Prison is for the poor.

[bcbm]

2. I believe in forgiving people

how noble of you


I agree that people deserve a second chance. It’s great that we live in a country with a justice system that allows offenders to reclaim themselves and their lives after their sentence. I’m happy about that, and I hope Brown is a changed man at the end of his sentence. (The US justice system has Chris Brown on probation through 2014. It was nice of the Grammys to let him off a couple years early for high record sales good behavior.)

And my suspicion is that Rihanna has no interest in being a poster child for victims of domestic violence. She probably wishes this would all disappear, and I don’t blame her for a minute. She didn’t ask for this – for any of it – and she’s under no obligation to speak out about it.

But someone has to. Because what is happening here is unmistakable. It is, in my eyes, so unmistakable that I wonder if I’m wrong, if I’m missing something huge, because I cannot believe more voices aren’t railing against this.

We – the grown-up influencers in this country, the people with platforms and with educations and with power — are allowing a clear message to be sent to women: We will easily forgive a person who victimizes you. We are able to look beyond the fact that you were treated as less than human, that a bigger, stronger person decided to resolve a conflict with you through violence. We know it happened, but it’s just not that big of a deal to us.

[bcbm]

and i think saying 'i dont give a shit about the grammys' is completely missing the point, the grammys are a major cultural event like it or not and this is effectively saying 'well who gives a fuck if he beats women up' which is a pretty fucked up message to send don't you think?

[manic expression]

and i think saying 'i dont give a shit about the grammys' is completely missing the point, the grammys are a major cultural event like it or not and this is effectively saying 'well who gives a fuck if he beats women up' which is a pretty fucked up message to send don't you think?
If some domestic abuser performs at a "major cultural event" that I don't care about then I'm not going to pretend to care about it. That's a kind of manufactured outrage that makes identity politics look opportunist. Even still, personally I wouldn't approve of Brown performing at wedding parties much less the grammies...I mean domestic abuse is one thing but the things I heard he did were pretty shocking. The whole pop culture "I did something horrific but I cried about it on TV once so now I can continue on almost as if it didn't happen" is quite transparently ridiculous.

That aside, though, who is "we" in the part you quoted? None of us have any control over whom the ruling class decides to let sing and dance on the shameless, sham stage of popular entertainment. It'd be nice if this kind of thing could be discussed without that sort of "we're all responsible!" finger-wagging individualist moralism.

[gorillafuck]

this article title is so needlessly accusatory towards the reader...

also, it's awesome that Jay-Z spoke out against the abuse when others weren't, considering how rappers are pressured to be misogynists, especially a few years ago when sensitive-guy rap wasn't popular at all.

[Lobotomy]

If some domestic abuser performs at a "major cultural event" that I don't care about then I'm not going to pretend to care about it. That's a kind of manufactured outrage that makes identity politics look opportunist. Even still, personally I wouldn't approve of Brown performing at wedding parties much less the grammies...I mean domestic abuse is one thing but the things I heard he did were pretty shocking. The whole pop culture "I did something horrific but I cried about it on TV once so now I can continue on almost as if it didn't happen" is quite transparently ridiculous.

That aside, though, who is "we" in the part you quoted? None of us have any control over whom the ruling class decides to let sing and dance on the shameless, sham stage of popular entertainment. It'd be nice if this kind of thing could be discussed without that sort of "we're all responsible!" finger-wagging individualist moralism.

dude, he's had several songs make it into the top ten, and several grammy nominations and awards. his latest album peaked at number one on the Billboard chart. Yeah no shit the ruling class put him there, but you can't deny that he still has millions of fans who are willing to overlook his bullshit. that's the point of this article. When you say you don't care that a domestic abuser performs at a major cultural event, you're essentially saying that you don't have a problem with domestic violence in our culture being acceptable.

[coda]

yeah.. he didn't just perform at the grammys.. he won a Grammy for best R&B album.

Glen Campbell, too,,, performed and was honored that night for a "Lifetime Achievement Award". Back in the day he infamously knocked girlfriend, Tanya Tucker's front teeth out and was always getting drunk and beating her ass.

[manic expression]

dude, he's had several songs make it into the top ten, and several grammy nominations and awards. his latest album peaked at number one on the Billboard chart. Yeah no shit the ruling class put him there, but you can't deny that he still has millions of fans who are willing to overlook his bullshit. that's the point of this article. When you say you don't care that a domestic abuser performs at a major cultural event, you're essentially saying that you don't have a problem with domestic violence in our culture being acceptable.
First of all, I didn't say that. Second, Chris Brown singing and dancing on TV isn't my culture, and I have absolutely no say in it. Third, albums are put on the top 40 list because of marketing and promotion...if record companies stopped pushing his music he'd be washing dishes if the money he already made ran out.

Since you asked, I do think domestic violence is to a certain point acceptable in "our culture" (basically, so long as you cry on TV afterwards) but Brown performing on the grammies has a negligible part in that. Identity politics so often attacks the appearance of something instead of the substance, and this is a good example. If Brown were denied a spot on the grammies I do not think it would majorly diminish the dynamics that ultimately let him on stage. "Our culture", that is pop culture, loves nothing more than controversy, and I guarantee you that the people behind the grammies would pat themselves on the back if they saw this article. The more people talking about their absurd little show the happier they are.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

is this guy a serious dosmetic abuser or did he just punch his girlfriend cause like, its never ok but the latter is kinda the same as getting into a fight with someone (which i assume a lot of people have done) you know?

[Os Cangaceiros]

dude, he's had several songs make it into the top ten, and several grammy nominations and awards. his latest album peaked at number one on the Billboard chart. Yeah no shit the ruling class put him there, but you can't deny that he still has millions of fans who are willing to overlook his bullshit. that's the point of this article. When you say you don't care that a domestic abuser performs at a major cultural event, you're essentially saying that you don't have a problem with domestic violence in our culture being acceptable.

I think that guilt-tripping someone over their entertainment consumption habits alone is a little problematic, honestly. If I listen to James Brown, does that mean I'm also excusing domestic violence? All sorts of great musicians have been scumbags. (Although that's certainly not to say that Chris Brown is anything close to a "great musician")

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

This (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/horrible-reactions-to-chris-brown-at-the-grammys) is even more disturbing.

[coda]

underneath the above link..

http://www.buzzfeed.com/google/chris-brown-arrested

Chris Brown assaulted Rihanna early on the morning of the 2008 Grammy Awards coming from a pre-grammy party.

edit: 2009 Grammy Awards

[blake 3:17]

Glen Campbell, too,,, performed and was honored that night for a "Lifetime Achievement Award". Back in the day he infamously knocked girlfriend, Tanya Tucker's front teeth out and was always getting drunk and beating her ass.

I saw Campbell on his farewell tour this past summer -- frail as shit -- concert was so-so -- I saw and loved James Brown play -- dude could kick it -- and he was a domestic abuser.

I've never bought a Chris Brown album, but really like him on the Nas album he does some stuff on.

Sometimes brilliant successful artists are assholes. And?

[coda]

and assholes support them and buy their records..

[Lobotomy]

I think that guilt-tripping someone over their entertainment consumption habits alone is a little problematic, honestly. If I listen to James Brown, does that mean I'm also excusing domestic violence? All sorts of great musicians have been scumbags. (Although that's certainly not to say that Chris Brown is anything close to a "great musician")

I like James Brown too, but our individual opinions are irrelevant. The problem is that both James Brown and Chris brown were able to have extremely successful careers despite their domestic violence incidents, which suggests, I think on an objective level, that our society doesn't mind rewarding such behaviors indirectly. The ruling class creates it and the lower classes accept it to some extent.

[Tovarisch]

The whole celebrity obsession is stupid. Celebrities are being treated as if they are gods, but they are people who often get drunk in fame and die at an age of 50. Why are these people at national events, it should be the regular folks up on the stage

[blake 3:17]

The ruling class creates it and the lower classes accept it to some extent.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????


The whole celebrity obsession is stupid. Celebrities are being treated as if they are gods, but they are people who often get drunk in fame and die at an age of 50. Why are these people at national events, it should be the regular folks up on the stage

You bashing Whitney?

[blake 3:17]

AND WHY THE FUCK IS THIS IN women's struggles???????????? WHAT THE FUCK -- THIS CALLED MEN BEING ASSHOLE SHIT HEADS & DOESN'T NEED TO DISRUPT DISCUSSION ABOUT STRUGGLE BY WOMEN AND FEMINISTS

caps intended

[Tovarisch]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????



You bashing Whitney?
Not her specifically, just celebrities in general. They are by far the most overpaid people on the face of the Earth

And don't play the racist card either, I despise Charlie Sheen, Madonna and Britney Spears even more.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I like James Brown too, but our individual opinions are irrelevant. The problem is that both James Brown and Chris brown were able to have extremely successful careers despite their domestic violence incidents, which suggests, I think on an objective level, that our society doesn't mind rewarding such behaviors indirectly. The ruling class creates it and the lower classes accept it to some extent.

People generally just want to be entertained, and they're apathetic to the personal lives of the people who do the entertaining. I actually don't think it has much to do with the general view on domestic violence in the USA...yes there are assholes who crack jokes about it, but generally speaking I don't think that the large majority of people living here find domestic abuse to be socially acceptable behavior. Does that make the consumers "bad people"? Mostly I'd say probably not. Speaking personally, I don't often agree with manic expression, but on this topic I agree that it's hard to become incensed at something when there's just a crushing void of caring about the event in question (the grammy's) on your part.

So are terrible things being rewarded indirectly? Yes but this world is a shitty place where all sorts of terrible things are rewarded indirectly, I'm typing on a computer right now w/ minerals in it that may have been harvested under "questionable circumstances" in Africa.

[blake 3:17]

And don't play the racist card either, I despise Charlie Sheen, Madonna and Britney Spears even more.

I wasn`t playing a `racist card`-- the usual term is `race card`.


It`s just that Whitney just died at age 48 -- so Charlie Sheen, Madonna and Britney Spears don`t fit the bill.

[bcbm]

So are terrible things being rewarded indirectly? Yes but this world is a shitty place where all sorts of terrible things are rewarded indirectly, I'm typing on a computer right now w/ minerals in it that may have been harvested under "questionable circumstances" in Africa.

doesnt mean we shouldnt acknowledge it

[coda]

Everybody's seen the viral video "Jill & Kevin's wedding entrance" (or the television variations on The Office & The Royal Wedding parody )to Chris Brown's "Forever"> .. the song and wedding was used before the dv incident and thereafter a disclaimer attached to the video suggesting a donate to a Domestic Violence organization and raising $ 35,000 since then. Wonder how much Chris Brown has raised for the cause... and he surely owes Jill, Kevin & co.... and the 72, 970, 454 a nod to his popularity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-94JhLEiN0

[Marquess]

I agree. I like how him beating Rihanna is completely swept under the rug as if it never happened. And don't dare bring that up to his fan girls on his videos. One top comment said she'd let Brown beat her any day.

Anyway, it's all because he's rich, good looking and famous. If not he'd be demonized to hell and back right now.

[coda]

<<If not he'd be demonized to hell and back right now.>>

yeah like Ike Turner!

The grammy awards use to mean something as far as world wide musical recognition....it use to represent the pinnacle of artistic musical achievement... now it represents the corporate mainstream.....

i guess with our eye toward revolution, we can look forward to reestablishing artistic merits again... Hopefully soon!!!!

[blake 3:17]

The grammy awards use to mean something as far as world wide musical recognition....it use to represent the pinnacle of artistic musical achievement... now it represents the corporate mainstream.....

When was that?

[hatzel]

That's a kind of manufactured outrage that makes identity politics look opportunist.


Identity politics so often attacks the appearance of something instead of the substance, and this is a good example.

Seriously what the hell are you even talking about? I mean, I understand that 'identity politics' is one of those wholly meaningless phrases leftists like to throw around nowadays, the new way of saying "I disagree!" after equally meaningless terms like 'revisionist' went out of fashion, but c'mon, this is getting silly now. What 'identity' are we talking about here, exactly?

[gorillafuck]

I like James Brown too, but our individual opinions are irrelevant.they why are you guilt tripping manic?

[Lobotomy]

my point isn't even about guilt tripping any individual person or group. It's only about recognizing that a) successful musicians are admired, glamorized, and looked up to; b) chris brown has a successful career despite domestic violence on his part; therefore, c) that is an indicator of some degree of apathy when it comes to domestic violence.

I would definitely say that if our society was more aware and less apathetic of domestic violence, people like Chris Brown wouldn't be performing at the grammy's. I don't think that chris browns' fans are all "terrible people" as individuals, but collectively there is apathy and ignorance among those who ignore what he did. in other words, it's all a symptom of a greater problem.

[Lobotomy]

has there even been any serious public conversation about this anyway? That's a serious question, because I don't pay attention. I haven't heard of anything aside from jay-z's refusal to applaud chris brown (which was in regards to a separate performance), and angry obscure feminist blogs.

[Hexen]

I thought this article (http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/02/13/the-shit-list/) will be relevant to this topic.

[Marquess]

<<If not he'd be demonized to hell and back right now.>>

yeah like Ike Turner!

The grammy awards use to mean something as far as world wide musical recognition....it use to represent the pinnacle of artistic musical achievement... now it represents the corporate mainstream.....

i guess with our eye toward revolution, we can look forward to reestablishing artistic merits again... Hopefully soon!!!!

When was Ike Turner ever forgiven?

[coda]

<When was Ike Turner ever forgiven?>>

he wasn;'t forgiven --- which is the point...

[PhoenixAsh]

Is this for real?

http://cheezfailbooking.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/funny-facebook-fails-chris-browns-grammy.png

[kuros]

I like James Brown too, but our individual opinions are irrelevant. The problem is that both James Brown and Chris brown were able to have extremely successful careers despite their domestic violence incidents, which suggests, I think on an objective level, that our society doesn't mind rewarding such behaviors indirectly. The ruling class creates it and the lower classes accept it to some extent.
I dont think making 1 mistake should completely destroy your life. People should be able to be musicians or whatever they want to be regardless of things they have done in they life.

[RevSpetsnaz]

We dont know what happened that night and we dont know either of them personally.

[PhoenixAsh]

We dont know what happened that night and we dont know either of them personally.

reallly? Because we know this happend...see pictures...these exclude bit marks on her arms and fingers:

http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/ent2673.html

Chris admitted to doing all of this before he left her while he fled.

So pray tell...what exactly could...we "not know"?? And pray tell what would make this ok ?? Please explain.

Because your post sounds like a defence of what happened and an appology for beating and abusing a women....or did you just type unclearly and we all misunderstood your meaning there??

[RevSpetsnaz]

reallly? Because we know this happend...see pictures...these exclude bit marks on her arms and fingers:

http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/ent2673.html

Chris admitted to doing all of this before he left her while he fled.

So pray tell...what exactly could...we "not know"?? And pray tell what would make this ok ?? Please explain.

Because your post sounds like a defence of what happened and an appology for beating and abusing a women....or did you just type unclearly and we all misunderstood your meaning there??

What im saying is ive been a victim of a false accusation pertaining to an offence not unlike this one. I feel i should also mention that my little sister had her orbital fractured by a firefighter she was dating who, once intoxicated, hit her several times. What im saying is pictures dont always speak a thousand words.

[bricolage]

What im saying is ive been a victim of a false accusation pertaining to an offence not unlike this one. I feel i should also mention that my little sister had her orbital fractured by a firefighter she was dating who, once intoxicated, hit her several times. What im saying is pictures dont always speak a thousand words.
he hit her, stop trying to justify it.

[RevSpetsnaz]

he hit her, stop trying to justify it.

No ones try to justify anything. I dont know what kind of person he is and i dont know what kind of person she is, im not going to vilify the guy simply because i loathe him.

[bricolage]

No ones try to justify anything. I dont know what kind of person he is and i dont know what kind of person she is, im not going to vilify the guy simply because i loathe him.
how about because you've seen the pictures?

[RevSpetsnaz]

how about because you've seen the pictures?

Pictures dont tell a story.

[PhoenixAsh]

Are you f-ing serious??

Here is what happened:

She found a text from another woman. She threw his car keys out the window on the street. He went into a fit of rage. He dragged her out of the car. kicked her. beat her several times. strangled her. bit her arms and fingers....and left her unconscious at the side of the road...fleeing on foot AFTER he picked up his car keys. All the while screaming according to witnesses that he was going to kill her.

He admitted to this....all of this...and pleabargained.

In no way shape or form is what has been done to her justifiable or to be condoned....in no way shape or form is how he is in the rest of his life relevant to the fact that he beat a girl to a pulp.


So please explain what you mean by "villifying"

[RevSpetsnaz]

Are you f-ing serious??

Here is what happened:

She found a text from another woman. She threw his car keys out the window on the street. He went into a fit of rage. He dragged her out of the car. kicked her. beat her several times. strangled her. bit her arms and fingers....and left her unconscious at the side of the road...fleeing on foot AFTER he picked up his car keys. All the while screaming according to witnesses that he was going to kill her.

He admitted to this....all of this...and pleabargained.

In no way shape or form is what has been done to her justifiable or to be condoned....in no way shape or form is how he is in the rest of his life relevant to the fact that he beat a girl to a pulp.


So please explain what you mean by "villifying"

I never read about any of that occuring, mainly because i couldnt give two shiny shites about "celebrities".

[PhoenixAsh]

I never read about any of that occuring, mainly because i couldnt give two shiny shites about "celebrities".

Then why do you copme to this thread and post an uninformed appologising post for him? Becuse when you say in response to somebody being beaten and abused that you do not know what has happened and do not know the persons involved you are saying that there is might be a justification for this happening which you are not aware of.

[bricolage]

/\ exactly.
if you don't give 'two shiny shites' then why are you posting about it? especially when that posting involves excuses for domestic violence.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Then why do you copme to this thread and post an uninformed appologising post for him? Becuse when you say in response to somebody being beaten and abused that you do not know what has happened and do not know the persons involved you are saying that there is might be a justification for this happening which you are not aware of.

No one apologised for anyone. I just read a report that was quite a bit different from the one you made aware. I also find it odd shes spending so much time with him after this alleged altercation.

[RevSpetsnaz]

/\ exactly.
if you don't give 'two shiny shites' then why are you posting about it? especially when that posting involves excuses for domestic violence.

Where did i make an excuse?

[bricolage]

Where did i make an excuse?
"We dont know what happened that night and we dont know either of them personally."
... and the rest of your posts.

Look it's fair enough if you didn't know the story, there's nothing saying you should do. However you posted with authority saying 'we' don't know everything that happened, despite the fact that a lot of people actually do know everything that happened. You could have asked what had happened, or looked on the internet to see what had happened, all of which would have made more sense than posting about it the way you did.

[RevSpetsnaz]

"We dont know what happened that night and we dont know either of them personally."
... and the rest of your posts.

Look it's fair enough if you didn't know the story, there's nothing saying you should do. However you posted with authority saying 'we' don't know everything that happened, despite the fact that a lot of people actually do know everything that happened. You could have asked what had happened, or looked on the internet to see what had happened, all of which would have made more sense than posting about it the way you did.

Those arent excuses. The fact is we dont know everything that happened, we have one story of what occurred. Sure Brown took a plea deal, however he may have done so because it was in his best interest, its called an "Alford plea". Like i mentioned before, i also find it odd that shes spending so much time with him in light of the alleged altercation.

[PhoenixAsh]

sooooo.....exactly what side of the story would make it OK for Chris Brown to do this? Not to mention I would seriously suggest you repair your understanding of abuse and how it works and patriarchy and how it works.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Miranda Lambert tells Chris Brown to 'take notes' during 'Gunpowder and Lead' performance (http://music-mix.ew.com/2012/02/18/miranda-lambert-chris-brown/)

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Those arent excuses.
Yes, they are. Every post from you in this thread is either an excuse or an attempt to minimize what happened.

[RevSpetsnaz]

sooooo.....exactly what side of the story would make it OK for Chris Brown to do this? Not to mention I would seriously suggest you repair your understanding of abuse and how it works and patriarchy and how it works.

Nowhere did i say it was ok.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Yes, they are. Every post from you in this thread is either an excuse or an attempt to minimize what happened.

No, they arent. All im saying is i dont have all the facts.

[gorillafuck]

revspetznaz, he admitted to it. outside of the context of a plea bargain.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

All im saying is i dont have all the facts.
And that's an attempt to minimize it or excuse it.

[RevSpetsnaz]

revspetznaz, he admitted to it. outside of the context of a plea bargain.

Well i havent been able to find anything pertaining to that.

[RevSpetsnaz]

And that's an attempt to minimize it or excuse it.

No, its not. Nowhere have i said that her injuries were minimal or that perphaps she did something to warrant injuries, that would have been an attempt to minimize or excuse.

[Fawkes]

is this guy a serious dosmetic abuser or did he just punch his girlfriend cause like, its never ok but the latter is kinda the same as getting into a fight with someone (which i assume a lot of people have done) you know?

No, I don't know.


Is this guy a serious rapist or did he just force some girl to suck his dick? It's never okay, but the latter is kinda just what happens when you're really horny, you know?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

No, I don't know.


Is this guy a serious rapist or did he just force some girl to suck his dick? It's never okay, but the latter is kinda just what happens when you're really horny, you know?
I love you and your pink pants! You always know how to say something that will make me proud!:)

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

No, its not. Nowhere have i said that her injuries were minimal or that perphaps she did something to warrant injuries, that would have been an attempt to minimize or excuse.
Saying "I don't know all the facts" suggests there might be an excuse for what he did.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Saying "I don't know all the facts" suggests there might be an excuse for what he did.

No, it suggests that perphaps more happened than what were being made aware of.

[bricolage]

No, it suggests that perphaps more happened than what were being made aware of.
Except you've already been shown what happened and have failed to bring any evidence other than your own vague speculation.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Except you've already been shown what happened and have failed to bring any evidence other than your own vague speculation.

No, ive been shown a picture and been told a story. There have been convictions made on that little evidence and many of them are now being overturned. The picture of Obama not placing his hand on his heart, combined with the story that he was unpatriotic, is a prime example of convicting someone with nothing more than a picture and a story.

[gorillafuck]

Well i havent been able to find anything pertaining to that.he was interviewed about the incident on larry king...

[Os Cangaceiros]

yeah he admitted it on Tyra Bank's (lol) show, too. He did kind of a media "walk of shame" for a while.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Well ill have to look those up and watch them.

[gorillafuck]

go for it, we definitely didn't make that up.

[PhoenixAsh]

The thing is RS....

Chris Brown beat Rihanna. This is established fact. This is all the relevant information you need. Wether it was severe, wether she said something, whatever the cause of the argument short of self defence....there is no excuse for even this singular action.

Saying you `do not have all the information` implies there maybe reasons which mitigate the action, which make the action alright or which make the action justified.

Saying we `do not know what happened that night´ implies again that the situation may have called for this to happen. That the situation evolved to a point where the beating of another induvidual was somehow justified or condonable or mitigated within the specific context.

There are a rare and precious few situations in which I consider violence against women, or men, for that matter to be excusable.
* One is self defence or the defence for the safety of others when there is a clear and pressent danger.
* Second is averting a clear and pressent threat the person is posing to themselves.

And neither of these are an excuse for excessiveness.

Now...I am in a good mood....and willing to accept that you, being unaware of the specifics of what happened, may have had the idea that either of these two situations would have occured during this specific incident.

But even then you saw the pictures. And the violence was excessive. Even if pictures do not show the entire story....they did clearly show excessive force was used....that there were at least three heavy blows to the face.

And seeing as you were unaware of the events you have certain obligation to inform yourself before you start making posts which basically excuse or mitigate the circumstances.

I also do not buy for one second that you can not find anything pertaining to it. Since a quick google search of `rhianna abused`and `chris brown beat rihanna`net over 89 million results.

You would also learn from these two simple searches that Rihanna has told several times that this was not the first time Chris abused her or hit her.

Now...what WILL be glaringly obvious is that the entire industry slams Chris Brown for a second but then immediately steps up the plate to argue that it was a one time thing, everybody should move on, things have been a few years ago, the guy is punished enough, bad upbringing, stress.....immediately finding excuses to mitigate the behaviour. THIS is a sign of patriarchy. The way society functions is that men abusing women is supposed to be a minor incident and the guy was sorry...so all should be forgiven.

This is how patriarchy works. Women should shut up. Women probably have themselves to blame if they get abused, raped or beaten. And when the guy says he is sorry and has been put in the dog house for a few months...things should be forgiven and people should move on.

This in fact belittles the victim. Regardless of how the victim positions herself in the situation and how the victim interacts with the abuser. This is largely irrelevant....because more often than not this is the result of mixed emotions that are prevalent in abuse situations and as a result of gender role bias and upbringing in society.

All this is part of victim blaming to make women powerless. To put them in their supposed `rightful place`....


And by making statements that you do not have all the inforrmation....you are actually still not free from these patriarchical social bonds we have been forcefed from childhood. You are still in the matrix so to speak.

So try to understand what we are saying. Language is important.

[RevSpetsnaz]

The thing is RS....

Chris Brown beat Rihanna. This is established fact. This is all the relevant information you need. Wether it was severe, wether she said something, whatever the cause of the argument short of self defence....there is no excuse for even this singular action.

Saying you `do not have all the information` implies there maybe reasons which mitigate the action, which make the action alright or which make the action justified.

Saying we `do not know what happened that night´ implies again that the situation may have called for this to happen. That the situation evolved to a point where the beating of another induvidual was somehow justified or condonable or mitigated within the specific context.

There are a rare and precious few situations in which I consider violence against women, or men, for that matter to be excusable.
* One is self defence or the defence for the safety of others when there is a clear and pressent danger.
* Second is averting a clear and pressent threat the person is posing to themselves.

And neither of these are an excuse for excessiveness.

Now...I am in a good mood....and willing to accept that you, being unaware of the specifics of what happened, may have had the idea that either of these two situations would have occured during this specific incident.

But even then you saw the pictures. And the violence was excessive. Even if pictures do not show the entire story....they did clearly show excessive force was used....that there were at least three heavy blows to the face.

And seeing as you were unaware of the events you have certain obligation to inform yourself before you start making posts which basically excuse or mitigate the circumstances.

I also do not buy for one second that you can not find anything pertaining to it. Since a quick google search of `rhianna abused`and `chris brown beat rihanna`net over 89 million results.

You would also learn from these two simple searches that Rihanna has told several times that this was not the first time Chris abused her or hit her.

Now...what WILL be glaringly obvious is that the entire industry slams Chris Brown for a second but then immediately steps up the plate to argue that it was a one time thing, everybody should move on, things have been a few years ago, the guy is punished enough, bad upbringing, stress.....immediately finding excuses to mitigate the behaviour. THIS is a sign of patriarchy. The way society functions is that men abusing women is supposed to be a minor incident and the guy was sorry...so all should be forgiven.

This is how patriarchy works. Women should shut up. Women probably have themselves to blame if they get abused, raped or beaten. And when the guy says he is sorry and has been put in the dog house for a few months...things should be forgiven and people should move on.

This in fact belittles the victim. Regardless of how the victim positions herself in the situation and how the victim interacts with the abuser. This is largely irrelevant....because more often than not this is the result of mixed emotions that are prevalent in abuse situations and as a result of gender role bias and upbringing in society.

All this is part of victim blaming to make women powerless. To put them in their supposed `rightful place`....


And by making statements that you do not have all the inforrmation....you are actually still not free from these patriarchical social bonds we have been forcefed from childhood. You are still in the matrix so to speak.

So try to understand what we are saying. Language is important.

1. Its not established, its a conclusion drawn from a picture and a story.

2. Claiming i dont have all the information is not justifying the action, or even close to justifying the action.

3. Claiming we dont know what happened that night implies we have limited information.

4. I never said i couldnt find any information, i said i found the same limited information.

5. You cant, for one second, say that violence against women is more acceptable than violence against men. I, from first hand experience, have spoken to and been privvy to the files on several men who were deemed "abusers" for the "crime" of breaking their own property while their girlfriends, wives or sisters were present.

Now im not saying Brown didnt hit Rihanna, im saying that we dont have the full story as to what occurred prior to this altercation. Frankly im surprised this is getting as much attention as it is on this site.

[RevSpetsnaz]

go for it, we definitely didn't make that up.

I dont think you guys are. To be honest i give this "celeb" gossip very little time and anything that does occur i couldnt care less about due to the fact that both parties typically end up with a load of high price book, movie, etc. deals.

[PhoenixAsh]

1. Its not established, its a conclusion drawn from a picture and a story.

Well...actually no. It is established fact for a meriad of reasons. Not just the picture and the story....but also the eyewitnes accounts, the admittance of guilt and the medical examination.

Now...if we ignore all that we have the testimony and the pictures. The pictures clearly show heavy violence being used. Wether they tell the whole story or not...this pretty much indicates that there was abuse. The ONLY doubt you could have is wether or not that abuse is committed by the person charged or was self inflicted. Doubting the testimony offhand without informing yourself further as to the information available and stating not only that "you" but rather "we" do not know what happened leaves only two possibilities:

1). more information would justify or mitigate the act
2). wrong conclusions are drawn


2. Claiming i dont have all the information is not justifying the action, or even close to justifying the action.

Ehh....yes...because it directly implies that there might be some information there which would change the conclusion about the end result.

Especially since you stated also: we do not know them.

This sentence implies that there may have been, as I said, a spiral of events justifying the end result or mitigating the end result.


3. Claiming we dont know what happened that night implies we have limited information.

Again....what more information could there be that would mitigate or justify the end result of a woman ending up unconscious, in a lot of pain and with severe wounds?


4. I never said i couldnt find any information, i said i found the same limited information.

So you are aware of the fact that Chris Brown admitted fully the events as testified by Rihanna?

In that case your entire post is apologetic. Since you are aware of the facts claiming ignorance as an excuse for saying we do not have all the information basically is void.


5. You cant, for one second, say that violence against women is more acceptable than violence against men.

I am not. What I am alluding to is that violence against women is by far the more prevalent of the two in current society. In fact...abuse cases are three times as likely to be committed against women than against men and are twice as severe and prolonged.

You are aware of the fact that 1 in 3 women is abused either physically, sexually and/or psychologically?


I, from first hand experience, have spoken to and been privvy to the files on several men who were deemed "abusers" for the "crime" of breaking their own property while their girlfriends, wives or sisters were present.

Aha...and which of these cases ended up with two bruised eyes, battered lips, bite marks on arms and fingers and leaving the wife, girlfriend or sister unconscious at the side of the road after screaming: "I am going to kill you" ????



Now im not saying Brown didnt hit Rihanna, im saying that we dont have the full story as to what occurred prior to this altercation.

And again...this is a more direct statement which says....we do not know what happened prior to him beating the hell out of her...so maybe it was justified. Tell me...because I asked several times...what information would make our conclusion wrong? What information would have mitigated the end result? What mitigation would justify the end result?

Because THAT is what you are saying here. We do not have all the information therefore the label of CHris Brown as an abuser may be wrong.


Frankly im surprised this is getting as much attention as it is on this site.

And that is why I stated that you need to read up on Patriarchy. Because what is happening with Chris Brown is a direct and classic example of this.

Basically people claim the same as you....like I said in my previous post and like a whole lot of other posters here said....when a man abuses a woman we do not know all the information, maybe she did something to provoke the reaction, this was a one time thing, it happened a few years ago we need to move on, think of his carreer, think of his future.

ALL these excuses are continuously being brought up in abuse cases, rape cases and they have serious consequences for the position of women in general in society.

It sends the message: you are powerless.

[Ocean Seal]

I have no problem with people listening to Chris Brown. As Explosive Situation said above all great musicians are scumbags. The problem is that there are people who buy his music. Which again leads us to the innumerable goods of piracy.

Anyway as most people said above, I don't really give a fuck about the grammy's they're a joke. But that being said, this man should be in prison, just like what happens when the rest of us commit a crime.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Well...actually no. It is established fact for a meriad of reasons. Not just the picture and the story....but also the eyewitnes accounts, the admittance of guilt and the medical examination.

Now...if we ignore all that we have the testimony and the pictures. The pictures clearly show heavy violence being used. Wether they tell the whole story or not...this pretty much indicates that there was abuse. The ONLY doubt you could have is wether or not that abuse is committed by the person charged or was self inflicted. Doubting the testimony offhand without informing yourself further as to the information available and stating not only that "you" but rather "we" do not know what happened leaves only two possibilities:

1). more information would justify or mitigate the act
2). wrong conclusions are drawn



Ehh....yes...because it directly implies that there might be some information there which would change the conclusion about the end result.

Especially since you stated also: we do not know them.

This sentence implies that there may have been, as I said, a spiral of events justifying the end result or mitigating the end result.



Again....what more information could there be that would mitigate or justify the end result of a woman ending up unconscious, in a lot of pain and with severe wounds?



So you are aware of the fact that Chris Brown admitted fully the events as testified by Rihanna?

In that case your entire post is apologetic. Since you are aware of the facts claiming ignorance as an excuse for saying we do not have all the information basically is void.



I am not. What I am alluding to is that violence against women is by far the more prevalent of the two in current society. In fact...abuse cases are three times as likely to be committed against women than against men and are twice as severe and prolonged.

You are aware of the fact that 1 in 3 women is abused either physically, sexually and/or psychologically?



Aha...and which of these cases ended up with two bruised eyes, battered lips, bite marks on arms and fingers and leaving the wife, girlfriend or sister unconscious at the side of the road after screaming: "I am going to kill you" ????




And again...this is a more direct statement which says....we do not know what happened prior to him beating the hell out of her...so maybe it was justified. Tell me...because I asked several times...what information would make our conclusion wrong? What information would have mitigated the end result? What mitigation would justify the end result?

Because THAT is what you are saying here. We do not have all the information therefore the label of CHris Brown as an abuser may be wrong.



And that is why I stated that you need to read up on Patriarchy. Because what is happening with Chris Brown is a direct and classic example of this.

Basically people claim the same as you....like I said in my previous post and like a whole lot of other posters here said....when a man abuses a woman we do not know all the information, maybe she did something to provoke the reaction, this was a one time thing, it happened a few years ago we need to move on, think of his carreer, think of his future.

ALL these excuses are continuously being brought up in abuse cases, rape cases and they have serious consequences for the position of women in general in society.

It sends the message: you are powerless.

1. It implies that something else might have occurred. We might find out, in due time, that she shanked him with a fork, we dont know.

2. Ive found nothing related to him admitting he did it, all ive found it that he took a plea bargain. I will keep researching on this.

3. Im aware violence against women is more prevalent, im not arguing that.

4. My mentioning of my first hand experience was meant to point out that men are also victims of the very system put in place to prevent abuse.

5. Brown will not go unpunished, regardless. Wherever he goes this story will follow him, not unlike Gibson, Richards, etc.

[PhoenixAsh]

Did you read the statement by his lawyers?

That statement said:

Pleading guilty represents Chris Brown taking full responsibility for his actions


Here is a nice video of Chris admitting it CzZUsNC76GU

Here is another video of Chrissy: MPRyia1wCes

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

1. It implies that something else might have occurred. We might find out, in due time, that she shanked him with a fork, we dont know.
And there you go again, suggesting Rihanna might have done something to "deserve it."

[RevSpetsnaz]

And there you go again, suggesting Rihanna might have done something to "deserve it."

Im suggesting that something else may have happened, we dont know. It amazes me how you people can take two slivers of evidence and draw a conclusion from them. Utilizing your theory of proof one could say "intelligent design" does in fact exist simply because we know that we cant explain exactly where man orginated from, or the earth for that matter. Obviously the video clip provided changes the debate. The real question should be why are we concerning ourselves with celebrity gossip?

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Im suggesting that something else may have happened, we dont know.
Yes, we do, we have photos, and testimony from both the victim and the perpetrator. You're engaging in deliberate denial, and that equates to an attempt to excuse or minimize what happened. Further, I'm beginning to think you're deliberately trolling a thread on domestic violence.


The real question should be why are we concerning ourselves with celebrity gossip?
The initial question raised was why does popular culture continue to celebrate men who have assaulted their partners? Which remains a pertinent question.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Yes, we do, we have photos, and testimony from both the victim and the perpetrator. You're engaging in deliberate denial, and that equates to an attempt to excuse or minimize what happened. Further, I'm beginning to think you're deliberately trolling a thread on domestic violence.


The initial question raised was why does popular culture continue to celebrate men who have assaulted their partners? Which remains a pertinent question.

Of course it does, youre right, about everything. Ive been a fool to think anyone this far left would be any different than someone just as far right. To answer your question, who cares, this thread has gotten an unreasonably high amount of attention in comparison to threads on much more serious issues.

[PhoenixAsh]

Of course it does, youre right, about everything. Ive been a fool to think anyone this far left would be any different than someone just as far right. To answer your question, who cares, this thread has gotten an unreasonably high amount of attention in comparison to threads on much more serious issues.

Really? Abuse and patriarchy are not is not serious issues in your opinion?

And you have the gall to equate us with far right because you are to fucking stupid to listen?

Fuck this.

You are trolling this thread. You are trying to derail it and you are trying to justify abuse.

We have explained this. you had ample opportunity to clarify your opinion but instead you went down the same road.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Really? Abuse and patriarchy are not is not serious issues in your opinion?

And you have the gall to equate us with far right because you are to fucking stupid to listen?

Fuck this.

You are trolling this thread. You are trying to derail it and you are trying to justify abuse.

We have explained this. you had ample opportunity to clarify your opinion but instead you went down the same road. Have an infraction.

1. The thread pertaining to domestic violence being much higher among law enforcement relationships recieved no attention.

2. Im equating people here to the right wing because i see constant infighting and attempts to validate oneself being more left than another, the inability to see any admirable quality in a figure other than a leftist and the refusal to criticise anyone within ones own political spectrum.

3. No ones trolling, no ones trying to derail and no ones trying to justify. By the way, the trolling accusation is is getting old, next to labelling someone a reactionary its the most common response on this forum.

[PhoenixAsh]

1). The thread pretty much ran its course untill somebody...and I won't name names...but it was you...started posting we didn't know all the facts bullshit.

2). So you are in fact no better. Good that we have cleared that up.

3). Well...yes...you are.

As we have explained....when you say the things you say you are actually saying something was done to deserve this. This is justifiction and mitigating of the act.

Yet you are very aware of the facts of this and you still maintain "something else may have happened".... in the face of sworn testimonies and admittence of guilt....either you are dense or you are trolling. And since I am going to be friendly and assume you are not dense...you are therefore trolling.

[RevSpetsnaz]

1). The thread pretty much ran its course untill somebody...and I won't name names...but it was you...started posting we didn't know all the facts bullshit.

2). So you are in fact no better. Good that we have cleared that up.

3). Well...yes...you are.

As we have explained....when you say the things you say you are actually saying something was done to deserve this. This is justifiction and mitigating of the act.

Yet you are very aware of the facts of this and you still maintain "something else may have happened".... in the face of sworn testimonies and admittence of guilt....either you are dense or you are trolling. And since I am going to be friendly and assume you are not dense...you are therefore trolling.

1. Excellent use of the "i know you are but what am i"

2. I admire qualities found in people from both spectrums, unlike many of the users here who seem to have an inability to seperate an admirable quality from the individual.

3. I never maintained that something may have happened, im repeatedly being forced to clarify that i had merely suggested it prior to being made aware of the posted video.

[coda]

<<Chris Brown beat Rihanna. This is established fact. This is all the relevant information you need. Wether it was severe, wether she said something, whatever the cause of the argument short of self defence....there is no excuse for even this singular action.>>

thanks, Hindsight---anything other than what is said there is Bullshit!

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Please keep things civil guys, thanks. :)

[Ostrinski]

>Guy makes shitty industry music oriented completely toward marketing
>Guy is chauvinist filth and beats his girlfriend
>Supposed leftists defending the piece of shit

Why world, why.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

No, I don't know.


Is this guy a serious rapist or did he just force some girl to suck his dick? It's never okay, but the latter is kinda just what happens when you're really horny, you know?

thats a pretty slanderous and boneheaded analogy there.

Please explain how given that now we know you feel that being angry at someone to the point where you engage in violence against them is the equivalent of forcing someone to have sex with you because you are horny, you are able to associate with 95 percent of the people in the world that have in fact, been angry enough with someone to do something violent against them.

seriously?

[bricolage]

http://thequietus.com/articles/08039-rihanna-chris-brown-birthday-cake

urgh.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

thats a pretty slanderous and boneheaded analogy there.

Please explain how given that now we know you feel that being angry at someone to the point where you engage in violence against them is the equivalent of forcing someone to have sex with you because you are horny, you are able to associate with 95 percent of the people in the world that have in fact, been angry enough with someone to do something violent against them.

seriously?

Both of you cool it down with the ill-conceived scenarios please.

[RevSpetsnaz]

Please keep things civil guys, thanks. :)

This forum has never been civil.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Both of you cool it down with the ill-conceived scenarios please.

Just to note, I didn't make any scenario up, Fawkes was the one who made an analogy between noting there was a difference between engaging in violence with someone out of anger and long term domestic abuse and arguing that forcing someone to perform oral sex was acceptable and les like rape than intercourse.

[Ocean Seal]

I never read about any of that occuring, mainly because i couldnt give two shiny shites about "celebrities".
I don't give a fuck about the bourgeoisie, but that is not an invitation for bourgeois men to beat their wives.

[Franz Fanonipants]

how is revspetznaz not banned for sexism/partner abuse whiteknighting?

[RevSpetsnaz]

how is revspetznaz not banned for sexism/partner abuse whiteknighting?

I was waiting for this! This forum hasnt changed after all.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Just to note, I didn't make any scenario up, Fawkes was the one who made an analogy between noting there was a difference between engaging in violence with someone out of anger and long term domestic abuse and arguing that forcing someone to perform oral sex was acceptable and les like rape than intercourse.

You are partly responsible for when you posted this...


is this guy a serious dosmetic abuser or did he just punch his girlfriend cause like, its never ok but the latter is kinda the same as getting into a fight with someone (which i assume a lot of people have done) you know? [emph mine]

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

You are partly responsible for when you posted this...

[emph mine]

Not wanting to derail the thread, but yeah, that was badly phrased by me and could easily give the wrong impression. If it was unclear orginally, my point was, that i wasn't sure if chris brown was a serial/"serious" abuser, or whether he had engaged in some violence (such as punching someone etc) out of passion - and it is worth noting the major differences between the two both in terms of granting someone a status as an "abuser" and their links to misogyny.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Of course it does, youre right, about everything. Ive been a fool to think anyone this far left would be any different than someone just as far right. To answer your question, who cares, this thread has gotten an unreasonably high amount of attention in comparison to threads on much more serious issues.

Get the fuck off this forum and go fuck yourself you douchebag!

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Get the fuck off this forum and go fuck yourself you douchebag!

Dude was banned, you won (if you can call taking out the trash winning).

Also, try not to flame in the future, thanks. :)

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Sorry I couldn't tell that he was banned.