Legalizing child pornography is linked to lower rates of child sex abuse

[28350]

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/11/30/legalizing.child.pornography.linked.lower.rates.ch ild.sex.abuse


The findings support the theory that potential sexual offenders use child pornography as a substitute for sex crimes against children. While the authors do not approve of the use of real children in the production or distribution of child pornography, they say that artificially produced materials might serve a purpose.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

How would one "artificially produce" child-porn? By using very young looking adults?

I don't support legalizing this as many children will probably be abused as a result.

[daft punk]

sounds dodgy to me.

[Rafiq]

Fucking disgusting...

As if kids can consent to being molested and abused on film.

Sick pricks making the films.... What about that?

[The Young Pioneer]

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/11/30/legalizing.child.pornography.linked.lower.rates.ch ild.sex.abuse

By promoting an industry created by capturing child abuse on film, I think it would instead RAISE rates of child sex abuse.

Ffs, think.

[Bostana]

So?

They will probably want to rape kids on the Child porn too. There isn't that much of a difference.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Children who have not yet reached the age of puberty cannot consent to sexual acts (in most countries it is illegal below the age of 16&18).

[GoddessCleoLover]

Child pornography is child rape pure and simple, and ought to be punished severely.

[Sasha]

How would one "artificially produce" child-porn? By using very young looking adults?

I don't support legalizing this as many children will probably be abused as a result.

Young adults or completly digital.
And the science says the completely the opposite, less children get abused with accessibility to fake childporn. Even viewing real childporn doesn't increase the amount of abuse on the consumers side (other than the abuse by proxy of course), this is why here in the netherlands law enforcement made a conscious choice to direct all resources towards finding and prosecute the producers not the consumers, consumers are only prosecute if they upload themselves or if they are caught for something else as a extra charge)

[Sasha]

By promoting an industry created by capturing child abuse on film, I think it would instead RAISE rates of child sex abuse.

Ffs, think.

No, this is no "gateway drug" or something, Pedophelia is a decease and people afflicted by it will seek out sexual behavior with children whether its legal or not, non pedophiles are not intrested, fake legal childporn will therefore not create more demand but decrease it.
Not only because less real childporn gets produced but more importantly a legal outlet take of the pressure that leads from consumers to become abusers.
It's a moral difficult issue but the science says we are hurting kids now..

[Ocean Seal]

Young adults or completly digital.
And the science says the completely the opposite, less children get abused with accessibility to fake childporn. Even viewing real childporn doesn't increase the amount of abuse on the consumers side (other than the abuse by proxy of course), this is why here in the netherlands law enforcement made a conscious choice to direct all resources towards finding and prosecute the producers not the consumers, consumers are only prosecute if they upload themselves or if they are caught for something else as a extra charge)
Except it creates demand for the material and as a result more and more children will be abducted to participate in these films. Thus more children will be molested in these films.

[Sasha]

To quote myself just above you:
No, this is no "gateway drug" or something, Pedophelia is a decease and people afflicted by it will seek out sexual behavior with children whether its legal or not, non pedophiles are not intrested, fake legal childporn will therefore not create more demand but decrease it.
Not only because less real childporn gets produced but more importantly a legal outlet take of the pressure that leads from consumers to become abusers.
It's a moral difficult issue but the science says we are hurting kids now..

[Ocean Seal]

I agree that non-pedophiles are non-interested. However, a legal market of child porn makes people who want to make a profit quite interested. That can have a series of consequences.

[Comrade Auldnik]

I think people are focusing a little too much on the prospect of children being abused in the production of these materials. Not to say it isn't an important issue, but there are other ways to depict children sexually. If you've been on the internet for more than a day, you've heard of lolicon.

[Quail]

I don't really see a problem with legalising fake child porn, especially if science suggests that it could reduce levels of child abuse. I also think it would be good in that it would be a step towards seeing pedophiles as people who need help to manage their condition as opposed to evil child molesters, which in turn would lower rates of child abuse because there would be less of a stigma associated with trying to seek out help.

[dodger]

There is only one person who can prevent children being molested and that is the paedophile. What therapy is felt appropriate can be provided. An assessment made as to the danger that person poses. We cannot allow people that pose a threat to children to be at liberty. We don't with Sociopaths. The safety of our children is paramount. We had a paedophile in our depot, he was convicted, but remained at liberty . We told management if he walks in the depot we walk out. He was transferred to Baker St a busy interchange. Graffiti appeared"Convicted child molester-works here." He left, meanwhile people in his high rise block were alerted. we heard he and his furniture were tossed from his 2nd floor flat and he went to another city, after an extensive stay in hospital. Nobody was charged with the attack although there were 20 people at the scene. Problem sorted. Legislation has since come into force and more stringent safeguards are in place as well as detection of child pornography via net. Lock and key, carrot and big stick. It's their choice. Properly managed it works with psychopaths. My brother works every day with such people in residential home. He has not made error yet. Could do. Then some poor soul will suffer. Of course the world has got smaller, in one of the villages some woman rented out her 8yr old daughter to a paedophile, Australian, he used a vibrator that was cracked and the jagged plastic tore the inside of the child's anus and vagina. She died two weeks later of untreated infection. The Australian was long gone. In fact there was no police involvement. It is a litmus test of a civilized society how our children are treated.

[Sasha]

I agree that non-pedophiles are non-interested. However, a legal market of child porn makes people who want to make a profit quite interested. That can have a series of consequences.

hence why we should only legalize victim-free virtual porn, and sure as hell not prosecute people for possession of a drawing of bart and lisa Simpson having sex like recently happend in Australia I believe.

It's like heroin, we shouldn't legalize because we like it but because the alternative is worse.
And just as with heroin, legalization shouldn't mean we stop developping "healthier" alternatives or even better a cure for the urges, in fact that should be the prequisite.

[Yuppie Grinder]

I believe a large part of a person's individual sexuality is the result of their socialization and artificial conditioning. Sexual depravity happens for a reason, an unjust reason. Out of irrational and hatred for these degenerates I'd say deal with them through violence and coercion, but if I look at that solution coldly I realize it probably isn't effective. Really we should be asking ourselves how the people become this way and how to prevent it in the first place.

[Comrade Auldnik]

I believe a large part of a person's individual sexuality is the result of their socialization and artificial conditioning. Sexual depravity happens for a reason, an unjust reason. Out of irrational and bordering-on-crazy hatred for these degenerates I'd say deal with them through violence and coercion, but if I look at that solution coldly I realize it probably isn't effective. Really we should be asking ourselves how the people become this way and how to prevent it in the first place.

What strikes me as odd is how some people think that the more violent their words, the more they'll convince people that they aren't kiddy-fiddlers.

I'm not calling you a pedophile, by the way. I'm just saying that I think the "bordering-on-crazy hatred" comes off a little labored.

[Yuppie Grinder]

What strikes me as odd is how some people think that the more violent their words, the more they'll convince people that they aren't kiddy-fiddlers.

I'm not calling you a pedophile, by the way. I'm just saying that I think the "bordering-on-crazy hatred" comes off a little labored.
mkay

[Le Libérer]

This thread has the potential to be problematic legally for this message board. I will be watching it.

[Sasha]

As long as people manage to keep it a scientific discussion we should be fine but thats probably w faint hope

[dodger]

Maybe the better monitoring of paedophiles the sharing of intelligence by various agencies has led to a cut in crime. The police checks surely play an important role in sifting out those paedophile who gravitate to jobs that bring them into close contact with children. Even where the subject is treated seriously in press tv or radio I don't recall any convincing therapy being mentioned either at home or abroad. Stigma,can play no part in therapy or a therapists tool kit. I have a strong hunch that paedophiles have little in the way of conscience about their crimes. My brother when he was doing a module on the subject told me that was the case. I asked him straight if he was saying simply that a raised dick had no conscience. Very likely was his response. I certainly think that if the public is to be asked to be less laboured in their obvious hatred of paedophiles and their crimes, then they too must be treated with respect. A transparent system which will be costly, to ensure the safety of all children must be put into place. Certainly more research and a sharing across borders of experience in all fields dealing with the problem. If paedophiles cannot be trusted with our children then coercion must be the order of the day. As far as I am concerned people are entitled to feel angry betrayed by the state if their children are just treated as acceptable collateral damage when attacked. Especially when it could be avoided. I think for a long time to come we are going to be severely limited by our lack of knowledge on the subject. Lets not make laughing stock of ourselves by trying to paint the paedophile as the victim in all this. The child is the victim always. He(paedophile) is an adult , he has choice.

[The Young Pioneer]

No, this is no "gateway drug" or something, Pedophelia is a decease and people afflicted by it will seek out sexual behavior with children whether its legal or not, non pedophiles are not intrested, fake legal childporn will therefore not create more demand but decrease it.
Not only because less real childporn gets produced but more importantly a legal outlet take of the pressure that leads from consumers to become abusers.
It's a moral difficult issue but the science says we are hurting kids now..

No...I meant it as, if there is a higher demand for this product (the produce being child abuse caught on tape), then there would be more produced to accommodate the demand.

[Sasha]

But there won't be a increased demand, like drugs the demand is there and constant, legalization doesn't increase use, it might very well decrease it (less people smoke marijuana here in the Netherlands than in countries it is illegal).

[Bostana]

Porn helps Rape go down, but are Porn Sites free?

[Psy]

How would one "artificially produce" child-porn? By using very young looking adults?

Well the common way is via drawings of human like children, Lolita porn is a nitche porn market in Japan the bulk of which is drawings of underage girls.

[Rafiq]

I think people are focusing a little too much on the prospect of children being abused in the production of these materials. Not to say it isn't an important issue, but there are other ways to depict children sexually. If you've been on the internet for more than a day, you've heard of lolicon.

I've never heard of that.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

yeah obviously this wouldn't include legalising filming children being molested but drawings or adult actors made to look like children.

i guess it kinda makes sense that this would help reduce child abuse, but then again it might not (its like with rape porn - does it provide an outlet for impluses, or does it encourage people in them). But i think it must be awfully hard to be a peodophile and and thinking about it, given that they already have an atypical sexuality, it must be fairly easy for them to rationalise their behaviour as non harmful or even beneficial to children? I figure those of them with a conscience who do molest kids figure the kids will understand, or they'll be able to make them understand they don't wish them any harm?

[Hermes]

To be honest, and I know many of you disagree with me, I see no real reason why purely digital/drawn child porn should be illegal. I don't believe that it would result in a greater percentage of child molesters in the same way I don't think more homosexual porn necessarily results in more homosexual people.

It just pains me to see that all pedophiles are automatically assumed to molest young children when that isn't the case. You're demonizing a large group of people for what a minority of that group does. To me it would be assuming that everyone who has a fetish such as BDSM abducts all of their sexual partners and rapes them to fulfill their fantasies, which isn't the case either.

[Prometeo liberado]

My problem is that using statistics and research based on adult porn is misleading. If adults watching adult porn are less likely to commit rape then fine with that. It may reduce the urge to assault, but they will still be left with the problem of casual social interaction with other adults that they find appealing. The adult that is at the receiving end of a would be molester/rapist has a better mental ability to see process and stop it. A pedophile doing the same thing encounters far more susceptible prey. Simply put artificial child porn does not stop the mental aggression against children, maybe curtails some of the physical aggression.

[gorillafuck]

wait do you all think that rape porn can serve a positive purpose?

because child porn is basically rape porn except with the victim being a child.

[Welshy]

How would one "artificially produce" child-porn? By using very young looking adults?

I don't support legalizing this as many children will probably be abused as a result.

I think they are referring to hentai that depicts children. Though this seems too close to child porn containing actually children for me to be ok with this. If only we could find a way to prevent child molestation that doesn't involve going to an extreme (castrating pedophiles or legalizing child porn).

[Bostana]

wait do you all think that rape porn can serve a positive purpose?
Not rape Porn, just Porn in general helps rape go down.


because child porn is basically rape porn except with the victim being a child.
I am sure it will help Child Rape go down but I still don' think it is right. So I agree.

[Psy]

wait do you all think that rape porn can serve a positive purpose?

because child porn is basically rape porn except with the victim being a child.
If you are going by Lollita porn it tends to be consensual (though consensual inequality) within the narrative and more attaching dependency to a young female to lust over, thus you are adding the element of not only sexism but the female is the not mature thus giving the male the excuse to be the benevolent master of the young female.

Thus the problem with Lollita pron is its sexism, in that the fantasy is for the male to dominant over a young women yet most porn narratives has this same sexism, with sexuality being linked with a unequal sex relationship with the narrative of porn.

[gorillafuck]

If you are going by Lollita porn it tends to be consensual (though consensual inequality) within the narrative and more attaching dependency to a young female to lust over, thus you are adding the element of not only sexism but the female is the not mature thus giving the male the excuse to be the benevolent master of the young female.

Thus the problem with Lollita pron is its sexism, in that the fantasy is for the male to dominant over a young women yet most porn narratives has this same sexism, with sexuality being linked with a unequal sex relationship with the narrative of porn.I have no idea what lollita porn is. I really don't want to.

[Psy]

I have no idea what lollita porn is. I really don't want to.
You never heard of Lolita Complex? It is basically a fetish for adolescent females. Again this mostly is a issue with sexual objectification in that while the female is consensual the female is not equal in the sexual relationship as the male has a dominant role through being a adult while the female is still an adolescent.

[28350]

Artificial child pornography includes but is not limited to drawing, CGI, written erotica, audio porn, and young-looking adult actors.

[Dude]

I support the death penalty for convicted pedophiles. It won't eradicate the problem completely but the low lifes will give it a second thought more seriously. Producing fake child pornography will do nothing but increase pedophile behavior. This is probably one of the most sick and twisted ideas I've ever heard.

[bcbm]

I support the death penalty for convicted pedophiles. It won't eradicate the problem completely but the low lifes will give it a second thought more seriously.

all scientific evidence suggests the death penalty has no such effect.


Producing fake child pornography will do nothing but increase pedophile behavior.

cite?

[Decommissioner]

Wait, so loli porn or drawings of children engaged in sexual activity is illegal? I had no idea.

I find the notion that someone can be imprisoned for possessing a drawing of something (no matter how heinous or outrageous) absolutely ridiculous.

[Sasha]

Wait, so loli porn or drawings of children engaged in sexual activity is illegal? I had no idea.

I find the notion that someone can be imprisoned for possessing a drawing of something (no matter how heinous or outrageous) absolutely ridiculous.

Some places, not everywhere but almost everywhere its either illegal or under discussion to become illegal the possession/creation of "realistic" either completely virtual images or artificially de-aged pictures of adults.

Again, don't get me wrong, this is also pretty morally nauseating for me, but if all science says this can safe kids we need to discuss this in a open way.

[Bostana]

Artificial child pornography includes but is not limited to drawing, CGI, written erotica, audio porn, and young-looking adult actors.

Still gross

[Hermes]

Still gross

But the thing you need to recognize is that it doesn't matter whether it's gross to you or not. Obviously there are some people who don't find it gross, and if allowing the legalization of purely graphic child pornography reduces the percentage of them that go out and actually molest children, then we should by all means support it (as far as working in the system goes).

Also, there's a difference between legalization of purely graphic child pornography and requiring every internet user to fill a daily quota of viewed said porn. The only way you'd really find it is if you yourself went looking for it.

[28350]

Still gross

Not as disgusting as the abuse of children.

[sithsaber]

I don't know if i am allowed to say this but if child molesters have a dangerous mental disorder why are they allowed in the general population? If we have insane asylums for crazies, why can't we make perv asylums for molesters:confused:

[Hermes]

Why do you think they have a dangerous mental disorder?

[阿部高和]

For such a small, hated, and universally reviled group of individuals, this website has a certainly large rate of discussion of this topic.

[阿部高和]

but there are other ways to depict children sexually.

Is this really necessary?

[not your usual suspect]

*Yawn* The same tired arguments from the authoritarians, we get every time a discussion like this comes up (anywhere on the Internet...)

Artificial child porn (whether it is drawn, written, CGI or anything else) does not hurt children. Distributing images of actual child abuse also doesn't hurt those children any more (well, it does, but not directly like the actual abuse). Actual child abuse hurts children. It is perfectly possible to oppose actual child abuse, and also say that producing, distributing and possessing fictional child abuse imagery does not hurt actual children. In the same way I oppose rape. But I am not opposed to the production, distribution or possession of fictional rape porn (whether it is real consensual porn scripted to look like rape, or drawings, etc.).

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Also, for all you people who are claiming to be scientific socialists, but who are rejecting the findings of the scientific study in the OP, you are idiots. (I acknowledge many of the people who reject the findings of said study do not call themselves scientific socialists. You are also idiots, but perhaps not as stupid as the first group.)

(I obviously oppose the production of child porn (where child is defined as incapable of giving informed consent and/or preadolescenct - child sexual abuse). I also oppose the distribution of said child porn, but only because of the ongoing potential mental problems for the child/children involved, and their friends and relatives.)

[dodger]

If these sites are indeed harmless then they can be monitored and people can sign up with name and address. That would be a step forward. Cut down on a lot of police work.

[The Stalinator]

Looking at genuine child pornography is a bit like buying from companies who rely on five-year-olds in sweatshops to do their labour.

[kuros]

Off course animated child pornography should be legal, it violates no ones rights and there is thus no reason to illegalize it.

[kuros]

I've never heard of that.
The Virginity Is Strong In This One.

[kuros]

all scientific evidence suggests the death penalty has no such effect.



cite?
You cant really expect those kind of people to think rationally about, just about anything.

[kuros]

Still gross
Why?

[Hermes]

If these sites are indeed harmless then they can be monitored and people can sign up with name and address. That would be a step forward. Cut down on a lot of police work.

I agree completely. I also think everyone above the age of consent should have to register to view pornography, as it's immoral and probably going to lead to family strife and discomfort.

--

I can insert irrelevant morals into arguments too, can't I? In the 1820's Temperance Movement the use of alcohol was linked to pretty much every social evil imaginable, and many people still think so today. Should every person who swallows a drop of liquor have to first register at the bar?

[Princess Luna]

Looking at genuine child pornography is a bit like buying from companies who rely on five-year-olds in sweatshops to do their labour.
I think it is worse, buying from companies that rely on child labor is a unconsious decision, the person who buys a shirt from wal-mart does't think about how it was made, because there is no evidence at the time of purchase. The evidence of the child being raped is in the the video , when it comes to child porn. That said, I think the idea of giving people 8 years in prison for simply having pictures on their computer is rediclous, no matter how disgusting the pictures are.

[sithsaber]

Why do you think they have a dangerous mental disorder?

They want to fuck small children

nuff said

[dodger]

I agree completely. I also think everyone above the age of consent should have to register to view pornography, as it's immoral and probably going to lead to family strife and discomfort.

--

I can insert irrelevant morals into arguments too, can't I? In the 1820's Temperance Movement the use of alcohol was linked to pretty much every social evil imaginable, and many people still think so today. Should every person who swallows a drop of liquor have to first register at the bar?

There was no hint of moralizing in my brief comment. It was merely a practical suggestion. To aid police work. Police checks are mandatory for those seeking a position involved with children or vulnerable adults. I was subject to mandatory drug tests at work and was obliged to inform my employer if I was taking anything from a list of legal drugs. Any car driver is subject to laws. After all I was driving a train. Swinging fines put under lock and key placed on a sex offenders register seems well measured response to child pornography. As to the mental health and pathology of these individuals I don't have a great deal of insight beyond wiki or comments from friends who work in health, social agencies. Child sex abuse ie paedophilia. Let them put themselves on a register and seek treatment for their condition. Pornography involving consensual sex between adults is a whole 'other' ball game as we all know.

http://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=child%20sex%20abuse&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FChild_s exual_abuse&ei=wYM8T_6-B86fiAeH7_DyBA&usg=AFQjCNG1glZJu_5OtTm8DH_HWvSGyfOLBw

http://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=paedophilia&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPedophi lia&ei=k4Q8T87DD4ykiAeg8_3jBA&usg=AFQjCNEVxx2PJb_N5_aCixwwT0QQ-VQGVQ

[TrotskistMarx]

Indeed, I am not an active christian, but however I do have some christian form of morality in my brain, and since I've become a socialist, I have become a progressive liberation-theology christian or "christian socialist'.

Well child sex, child porn is not only immoral, but this is sort of crazy, neurotic or psychopathic. But I am in favor of a reformist justice system, a justice system not based on punishing the criminal. But a more advanced, transhumanist and justice system linked to christian-liberation theology which is based on forgiveness, loving and reforming the criminals. Instead of the capitalist domination-theology barbaric justice system based on *revenge* of criminals.

But I think that child porn, addiction to child sex is physiologically related, it has to be with some mental imbalance, and psychiatric, psychologic problems in the brains, more than a morality problem.

thanks


.


Fucking disgusting...

As if kids can consent to being molested and abused on film.

Sick pricks making the films.... What about that?

[Hermes]

Jesus.

Anyway, it's considered a mental disorder. I'm not arguing that. However, not all mental disorders are dangerous, and all pedophiles aren't dangerous as well. Most of us have some 'mental disorder' to a varying degree. It's a pretty loose term. To lump them all into one group is to categorize all of them as rapists, which simply isn't true.

As to your police checks, yes you are inserting morality. Why don't we just have police monitor everything we do, as usually if we monitor someone enough we'll gather enough evidence that they have some dangerous mental disorder. I thought we all loved police states, right?

Second, to TrotskistMarx quoting Rafiq, no one said it was real children. Did you read the thread?

I mean, dodger, do you think it would be a good idea for all of us to have police records? I mean, we are on a revolutionary site where most people here believe the bringing down of the State including the people in charge would be a good thing. Which to most people in charge is worse than a couple child rapists.

[SovietSwazi]

Why should it be illegal in the first Place?

[blake 3:17]

at the OP -- article sounds shakey but whatever. There`s never been conclusive proof that production or consumption of any kind of pornography leads to more sex crimes.

at GU -- age of consent laws are usually regressive, particularly against queer youth

On to some facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Sharpe

A friend in BC was active in defence of Robin Sharpe`s case on libertarian grounds -- he`d written works that were pretty grotesque child sex stories -- she defended him against the state. She chose not to stock his books in her shop, not on the child porn basis, but because they were lousy books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_Langer

I was active around the Eli Langer case. He was a young artist hit very very hard by uninformed complaints to Toronto Police based on a review of his show in the Globe & Mail. It was terrible for Eli and awful for most involved. At the same time, various young hustlers were charged under the same law because they made videos OF THEMSELVES jerking off. Julian Fantino, now a Conservative MP, then Police Chief of London Ontario, was trying to make a name for himself by prosecuting these guys for videotaping themselves. The London police flipped a couple of the hustlers and ended busting some middle aged guys for picking them up at bars -- they were 16 or 17 at the time -- and tried to drive them into suicide or prison by way of harrassment.

Joseph Couture, a young gay journalist in London at the time was harassed by police repeatedly. http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/author/Joseph%20Couture.aspx

He and Langer have tried to put it behind them.

All three were vindicated in the courts.

The child porn laws in Canada are very problematic -- erotic depictions of people appearing under the age of 18 can be considered child pornography. The laws are used highly selectively. They could be used to criminalize depictions of completely legal sexual relations. Making videos or otherwise documenting sex between MARRIED people in Canada can be criminal.

This also creates huge problems for people doing sexual education -- distributing condoms to younger teens could possibly be criminalized.

[dodger]

If these sites are indeed harmless then they can be monitored and people can sign up with name and address. That would be a step forward. Cut down on a lot of police work.

Hermes quite clearly schools, youth clubs hospitals, run police checks. Any organization that has vulnerable adults or children. No big deal. The staff and unions welcome them. As do parents. Schools are legally responsible for the safety of our children. I expect them to take every precaution. The rules have been laid only after sad failures, in the past. On the other hand, maybe somebody can make a case for paedophile teachers ,nurses, social workers, priests, youth workers et al?

[thriller]

Child pornography = sexual child abuse. Plain and simple. The child (BEING A CHILD!) is not able to understand the sex and consequences from it. Having thoughts about it is fine, but when one acts on that (through porn or other means) it is abuse. Sick of this shit...

[Quail]

Child pornography = sexual child abuse. Plain and simple. The child (BEING A CHILD!) is not able to understand the sex and consequences from it. Having thoughts about it is fine, but when one acts on that (through porn or other means) it is abuse. Sick of this shit...
I don't think that anyone is arguing that it is okay to abuse children to make pornography.

[Psy]

Child pornography = sexual child abuse. Plain and simple. The child (BEING A CHILD!) is not able to understand the sex and consequences from it. Having thoughts about it is fine, but when one acts on that (through porn or other means) it is abuse. Sick of this shit...
Yet drawings are just lines. It becomes hard to say abuse has accrued when you have an adult human drawing lines sexualizing adolescents that others adults look at.

[Bostana]

It's better to use Hentai than to rape children

[dodger]

Where is this new dawn, enlightenment taking place? Japan!

Child porn cases hit record high in '11
The Yomiuri Shimbun

Police discovered 1,455 cases of child pornography last year, up 8.4 percent from the previous year and the highest number since statistics were first compiled in 2000, according to the National Police Agency.

The number of children whose pornographic images were posted on the Internet came to a record 638. Of them, 105 children, or about 16 percent, were primary school students or younger.

(Feb. 17, 2012)

[Tavarisch_Mike]

How come theres so many threads about pedophilia, in one way or another, here on revleft? :blink:

[Franz Fanonipants]

fuck this world

[Franz Fanonipants]

How come theres so many threads about pedophilia, in one way or another, here on revleft? :blink:

some comrades have an obsession w/white knighting chimos. i honestly don't know why. i was not aware that raping children was a hallmark of class struggle but with these crazies in charge of the revolution i am sure that it will be a smashing success.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

some comrades have an obsession w/white knighting chimos. i honestly don't know why. i was not aware that raping children was a hallmark of class struggle but with these crazies in charge of the revolution i am sure that it will be a smashing success.


Yea i hear you. Its kind of fascinating that it tends to come back all the time, js.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I am a Gramsciian/Luxemburgian type of revolutionary, but for child molesters I could make an exception and favor giving them a good dose of Iosif Vissarionovich-style punishment.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I am a Gramsciian/Luxemburgian type of revolutionary, but for child molesters I could make an exception and favor giving them a good dose of Iosif Vissarionovich-style punishment.

i mean they should be rehabilitated and whatnot but they should be prosecuted as rapists and thats the bottom line. as a survivor of child sexual abuse i basically don't go in for all kinds of ridiculous, grotesque violence fantasies against chimos, but i do want to see people held accountable for their actions.

[GoddessCleoLover]

The bottom line ought to be to prosecute them as rapists, but I have serious doubts as to whether chimos can be rehabilitated. They seem to be quite recidivist in their conduct.

[Franz Fanonipants]

how much is rehabilitation really a part of their sentencing though, or the sentencing of rapists? i don't really know a lot about that process.

[dodger]

Yet drawings are just lines. It becomes hard to say abuse has accrued when you have an adult human drawing lines sexualizing adolescents that others adults look at.

Proof of the pudding is in the eating, invite some paedophiles around to sketch your children or young relatives. Do let us know the happy outcomes, . Ha ha...they can always draw somebody elses child.
That's a very cheap shot, but I make no apologies. Send us a link, when they get posted up on the internet.

Just lines on paper----what possible harm could come from that?

How convenient there are still countries in the world where children can be bought, sold ,kidnapped with near impunity. Out of sight out of mind. The capitalists have shown great skill at demolishing industries. LET THEM TACKLE THIS ONE....IF MEDICAL TREATMENT IS FOUND WANTING THEN PAEDOPHILES MUST BE MONITORED AND IF CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED THEN FULL LIBERTY MUST BE DENIED UNTIL RISK IS ASSESSED. LOCK AND KEY. Carrot and stick. Passports might be a fruitful debate. Global problem a new approach. Castration another avenue. Me I prefer the Paedophile to be, and stay in the driving seat, tackle your illness and you stay behind the wheel. Take control , responsibility is the way forward. If not we have the unwelcome tedious and expensive option of coercion.

[Joseph S.]

This solutionhttp://newyorkemploymentlawattorneys.com/files/2011/11/Noose.jpg has olso bin linked to lower rates of child sex abuse and many other forms of other undesirably behavior.

[Psy]

Proof of the pudding is in the eating, invite some paedophiles around to sketch your children or young relatives. Do let us know the happy outcomes, . Ha ha...they can always draw somebody elses child.
That's a very cheap shot, but I make no apologies. Send us a link, when they get posted up on the internet.

Just lines on paper----what possible harm could come from that?

Most drawn Lolita are drawn from the abstract, artists don't have to have a adolescent standing in from of them as a model, they simply call upon their visual memory of the abstract form of a adolescent then add as much to detail that forum as they'd like.

[Franz Fanonipants]

thats basically how i draw all my violent rape porn it does wonders for sexual violence rate wait you mean it doesn't

[daft punk]

Where is this new dawn, enlightenment taking place? Japan!

Child porn cases hit record high in '11
The Yomiuri Shimbun

Police discovered 1,455 cases of child pornography last year, up 8.4 percent from the previous year and the highest number since statistics were first compiled in 2000, according to the National Police Agency.

The number of children whose pornographic images were posted on the Internet came to a record 638. Of them, 105 children, or about 16 percent, were primary school students or younger.

(Feb. 17, 2012)

In Japan they have borderline stuff everywhere, you go on a video site and there are kids in swim suits, it's bizarre. I dunno why they can't ban it.

[Franz Fanonipants]

In Japan they have borderline stuff everywhere, you go on a video site and there are kids in swim suits, it's bizarre. I dunno why they can't ban it.

substitute america and rape culture here

both aren't really good situations

[daft punk]

Not heard of that one

[Franz Fanonipants]

Not heard of that one

rape culture?

i mean i guess like patriarchy/white supremacy its not something thats readily perceivable

[Hermes]

Okay, since a lot of you apparently aren't reading any of the thread.

We aren't arguing for child porn involving real under-age children. We are not arguing for sketches of specific people's children made into porn. We are arguing for completely fictitious drawings of underage children.

Not all pedophiles rape children. Not all pedophiles should be treated as if they do. If completely fictitious depictions of children engaging in sexual acts reduces the number of child rapes, I really don't see why you aren't all supporting it, unless you disagree with the article.

--

And dodger, if you want people to have to register with the state in order to view the child porn, then do you think that should be done with all aspects of porn? Should the porn industry become a government institution?

(I'm not trying to heckle, I'm just trying to more fully understand your point)

[GoddessCleoLover]

I would think that exposure to those type of materials would stimulate the appetite for "real" child porn. Anyone can rig a study to achieve a desired result. The thesis may be well-intentioned, but good intentions often lead to bad results.

[dodger]

Okay, since a lot of you apparently aren't reading any of the thread.

We aren't arguing for child porn involving real under-age children. We are not arguing for sketches of specific people's children made into porn. We are arguing for completely fictitious drawings of underage children.

Not all pedophiles rape children. Not all pedophiles should be treated as if they do. If completely fictitious depictions of children engaging in sexual acts reduces the number of child rapes, I really don't see why you aren't all supporting it, unless you disagree with the article.

--

And dodger, if you want people to have to register with the state in order to view the child porn, then do you think that should be done with all aspects of porn? Should the porn industry become a government institution?

(I'm not trying to heckle, I'm just trying to more fully understand your point)

Do you really have to ask? Come now......

[dodger]

I would think that exposure to those type of materials would stimulate the appetite for "real" child porn. Anyone can rig a study to achieve a desired result. The thesis may be well-intentioned, but good intentions often lead to bad results.

You make sound points, no study can rig the increase in child porn within Japan or the smuggling of children.All goes on below the radar. An industry.

I am living in Philippines with Wifey. Young girls go to Japan, they are called Japeoke. They support whole families with the income. There is no shame attached.(matter of fact). At the pool a very young girl a member of a school party latched on to me. She could not swim with her friends for the usual girlie reason. Told her I was English from London. Animated. "That's next to Australia, my Uncle works there!" Very young. She was soon to go to Japan as a 'dancer'. On the way home my nephew 9yrs said "she was hot!". I said yes she was pretty as a picture. Then I flicked his ear for laughing aloud about Australia being next to London. My worst moment was when she asked me if I thought the trip was a good idea.........2nd worst was when she invited me to meet in a bar........

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Okay, since a lot of you apparently aren't reading any of the thread.

We aren't arguing for child porn involving real under-age children. We are not arguing for sketches of specific people's children made into porn. We are arguing for completely fictitious drawings of underage children.

Not all pedophiles rape children. Not all pedophiles should be treated as if they do. If completely fictitious depictions of children engaging in sexual acts reduces the number of child rapes, I really don't see why you aren't all supporting it, unless you disagree with the article.

--

And dodger, if you want people to have to register with the state in order to view the child porn, then do you think that should be done with all aspects of porn? Should the porn industry become a government institution?

(I'm not trying to heckle, I'm just trying to more fully understand your point)



But is there enough of empirical evidence that shows that this Will reduce the ammount of sexual abuses against children? If not, i have a hard time to see why we should put so much effort and resources by trying it. I also doubt that there will be so many people that wants to participate in the creation of this (disgusting) stuff...

[Sasha]

I would think that exposure to those type of materials would stimulate the appetite for "real" child porn. Anyone can rig a study to achieve a desired result. The thesis may be well-intentioned, but good intentions often lead to bad results.

I used to like my porn pretty hardcore fetish (in the sack I'm actually pretty vanilla) and as it never progressed to really extreme over the 16 or so years I had access to online porn I would consider myself a pretty accurate case study, I can even definitely say my interest in the more extreme stuff dropped very significantly over the years, porn was a excellent substitute back when I still was interested in hardcore stuff and not have a fulfilling LTR and I can only imagine how it must be for someone who's sexual "deviancy" is not just a mere fetish but their complete all compassing sexual interest and a socially completely unacceptable one at that.

Long story short, no, just like legal drugs (as long as they are not aggressively advertised) actual lead to lower consumption and addiction all indications are that more porn, even rape or child depicting porn, leads to less sexual abuse. And just with drugs this definitely still needs to be proven beyond scientific doubt but its already long time established that prohibition leads to a opposite effect.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Thanks for the reply, and I agree that there is a real conundrum here. OTOH depiction of children in sexually explicit terms, even if as a caricature (eg. hentai) seems dangerous, and as Dodger has posted the development of the sexual exploitation of girls in Japan stands as a stark warning of something that must be avoided and condemned.

[Sasha]

I think extreme Japanese porn is a expression of the fundamentally messed up social society in Japan and not the other way around.

Playing basketball does not make you taller.

[GoddessCleoLover]

My chief concern is the escalation from child porn to child molestation. FWIW my view is that actual sexual exploitation of children ought to be the chief LE priority rather than chasing down hentai caricatures. OTOS real child porn often involves the actual rape of actual children captured on video, and IMO those involved in such despicable conduct ought to endure the full weight of the law.

[Sasha]

Offcourse, actual childporn is sexual abuse/rape and should be treated as such

(although capital punishment as advocated by some kneejerk moron a few pages back does not help no one, the fact the US where rape can be a capital offence has higher rape statistics than for example here proofs that, but that aside)

[Princess Luna]

Offcourse, actual childporn is sexual abuse/rape and should be treated as such

(although capital punishment as advocated by some kneejerk moron a few pages back does not help no one, the fact the US where rape can be a capital offence has higher rape statistics than for example here proofs that, but that aside)
Actually in 2006 the US supreme court ruled, only people convicted of murder or treason can receive the death penalty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_v._Louisiana


My chief concern is the escalation from child porn to child molestation. FWIW my view is that actual sexual exploitation of children ought to be the chief LE priority rather than chasing down hentai caricatures. OTOS real child porn often involves the actual rape of actual children captured on video, and IMO those involved in such despicable conduct ought to endure the full weight of the law.
For the most part the people who watch child porn and the people who molest children are different, child porn is watched by pedophiles, people who are attrached to children. Most child molesters are like prison rapists, they are not actually attracted to the victim they are attracted to the feeling of power.

[Sasha]

Actually in 2006 the US supreme court ruled, only people convicted of murder or treason can receive the death penalty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_v._Louisiana

I stand correct, thanx.
my point still stands though, while execution definitively prevents that perp from commiting further sexual assaults its proven that this will in no way discourage others...


For the most part the people who watch child porn and the people who molest children are different, child porn is watched by pedophiles, people who are attrached to children. Most child molesters are like prison rapists, they are not actually attracted to the victim they are attracted to the feeling of power.

And those who do tend to have other pathologic disorders like sociopathy

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Not all pedophiles rape children.
You keep making this distinction. Personal experience?

[Franz Fanonipants]

the real fucking question is why you assholes are so obsessed with helping chimos and not victims of childhood sexual abuse

[Princess Luna]

the real fucking question is why you assholes are so obsessed with helping chimos and not victims of childhood sexual abuse
Everything happens for a reason, finding out what drives people to molest children and working to cure them, will reduce child molestation far more then simply executing child molesters.

[gorillafuck]

I think that we should start referring to child molesters as child rapists so people don't start to get the impression that child molesters should get sentencing that's more lenient than the sentencing given to rapists.

because child molesters are rapists.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I agree with Franz and Zeek that we ought not be too liberal in trying to "understand" chimos. Experts have been doing that for decades without solving the problem.

[Princess Luna]

I think that we should start referring to child molesters as child rapists so people don't start to get the impression that child molesters should get sentencing that's more lenient than the sentencing given to rapists.

because child molesters are rapists.
Child molesters are the most (not even one of) reviled group in western society. I don't think we need to worry about them getting lighter sentences then normal rapists.

[28350]

the real fucking question is why you assholes are so obsessed with helping chimos and not victims of childhood sexual abuse

The topic of the original post in this thread was about reducing child abuse, not about "helping chimos."


You keep making this distinction. Personal experience?

No, it's actually a fact (OH GOSH), but go ahead and bait him/her on a psychiatric disorder. EDIT: There are a number of ways one could interpret personal experience but none of them are acceptable.


I do think that many child abusers (more catch-all than molester or rapist) do what they do not because of a pedophilia but because of their position, or situation (eg. priest). So no legalizing child pornography won't stop the abuse but decrease would be nice.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Everything happens for a reason, finding out what drives people to molest children and working to cure them, will reduce child molestation far more then simply executing child molesters.

no one is for executing child rapists

[Franz Fanonipants]

The topic of the original post in this thread was about reducing child abuse, not about "helping chimos."

but yet somehow its turned into you and your friends advocating for the rights of people with a pathology to celebrate and marinate in their pathology

[Princess Luna]

no one is for executing child rapists


This solutionhttp://newyorkemploymentlawattorneys.com/files/2011/11/Noose.jpg has olso bin linked to lower rates of child sex abuse and many other forms of other undesirably behavior.

I assumed your thanking this post, meant you were for agreeing with him

[gorillafuck]

Child molesters are the most (not even one of) reviled group in western society. I don't think we need to worry about them getting lighter sentences then normal rapists.I mean in what people advocate on here. there seems to be more sympathy for child molesters than rapists on revleft despite that child molesters are rapists.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I assumed your thanking this post, meant you were for agreeing with him

i thank plenty of shit i don't agree with. in that situation i thought the comment was p. funny.

if you actually could read you'd see me earlier in the thread saying that as a survivor of this shit i hate when people get all ridiculous and frothy/violent about it. it disgusts me.

[28350]

but yet somehow its turned into you and your friends advocating for the rights of people with a pathology to celebrate and marinate in their pathology

Yeah I haven't seen any of that in that thread. If anyone did say that, that is not my position. If forcing pedophiles to read People magazine reduced child abuse, I would be all for it. I'm not really for "pedophiles' rights" beyond what everyone deserves - freedom from persecution.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Seems to me that the children who are the victims of the chimos are the ones being persecuted.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

No, it's actually a fact (OH GOSH), but go ahead and bait him/her on a psychiatric disorder.
Facts, schmacts. If someone told me they were a pedophile, I wouldn't leave a child alone with them no matter how much they swore they would never act on their desires. Every pedophile is an actual or potential child rapist, no matter how much some here want to make the pedophiles the victims.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Yeah I haven't seen any of that in that thread. If anyone did say that, that is not my position. If forcing pedophiles to read People magazine reduced child abuse, I would be all for it. I'm not really for "pedophiles' rights" beyond what everyone deserves - freedom from persecution.

people who pathologically have a desire to rape other people deserve persecution

or prosecution, whatever

[28350]

people who pathologically have a desire to rape other people deserve persecution

No, they deserve psychiatric help. As do pedophiles, who you consistently conflate with "people who pathologically have a desire to rape other people." As do victims of child abuse.


Every pedophile is an actual or potential child rapist
Every human is an actual or potential murderer.


no matter how much some here want to make the pedophiles the victims.
The only people here who want to make the pedophiles the victims are those posting pictures of nooses.

[Franz Fanonipants]

No, they deserve psychiatric help. As do pedophiles, who you consistently conflate with "people who pathologically have a desire to rape other people." As do victims of child abuse..

motherfucker a pedophile wants to rape children. stop with the semantics dodge.

[Ostrinski]

I'm having deja vu.

[28350]

motherfucker a pedophile wants to rape children. stop with the semantics dodge.

No, I think there's a legitimate difference between attraction and wanting to fuck/rape. I'm not trying to paint a space in which a sex between a child and an adult isn't rape, I'm saying sexual attraction is just one component of desire/ego/will/decision-making process. Just because Joe's perception of Sally's hip-to-waist ratio activates neural reward networks in his brain doesn't mean he will even want to initiate sexual contact with Sally.


I'm having deja vu.

seriously i'm just making the same points i'm just going to stop talking about this subject here

[Franz Fanonipants]

No, I think there's a legitimate difference between attraction and wanting to fuck/rape.

nope.

the pathology of pedophiles is that they want to rape children. full stop. they may never act on it, but that is their pathology.

[black magick hustla]

hey guys take a deep breath

[Sasha]

Sigh, thread closed, worst of the flame war trashed, verbals to BMH etc, infraction to franz fa-etc