Let me make one thing clear!

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Communism ON PAPER works! Its a great system of equality! No class division, etc. HOWEVER, my problem with it is when you introduce the HUMAN aspect! Absolute power corrupts absolutely!

Cuba could have been a utopia! Think about it....people living in harmony..not scared to death to speak their minds, not being forced to do things against their will, not being killed for speaking up in a crowd, disappearing in the night, etc,. Instead, you have a dictator that came to power by overthrowing the previous one, with promises of the aforementioned, who suddenly turns to the dark side. Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce to you: The human aspect!

Lest anyone of you think this impoverishment came because of the embargo, remember this all started happening as soon as he came to power. People all lost their homes, possessions, and families were split up. In turn, (fats forward 44 years), castro lives in a palace while the rest of the island lives in squalor! Hell, even Ho Chi Minh REFUSED to live in an old french mansion, preferring to live more like his people in a hut!

Folks there HAS to be a reason people are willing to risk life and limb to brave the Florida Straits in search of freedom and democracy! You HAVE to think about that! One simply cannot blindly overlook that. The Florida Straits are littered with the bodies of those that yearn to leave such a country. WHY is that? Laziness? Greed? Brainwashed? Weakness? Is it the will to stand on a street corner and be able to insult the president without getting executed? Wanting the right of due process? The urge to keep everything you work hard for and possess things you'd like? What is it? There has to be a LOGICAL reason WHY people are leaving their countries in droves to go to the U.S.

Is it the "Bring me your poor, your tired, your huddles masses yearning to be free" part of the Statue?

[Ortega]

Yes!
I completely agree with Castro_Sucks. I guess I'm really asking for a ban here.
But read it Comrades! It's one of the best arguments made on Che-Lives for quite a while...

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

-Comrade_Zapata

[Don't Change Your Name]

Nice points and it's good you cleared some of your oppinions.

But...what do you propose instead of "communism ruined by human nature"?? Please tell us

[EneME]

CS, I can totally understand where you are coming from and that you are naturally biased because of your life experiences. I, myself, am naturally biased also because my family has been and continues to be oppressed because of the "democracy" that the USA forced upon my country to keep it from becoming another Cuba. Also, I have family who lived in Nicaragua during the Sandanista's and they speak only positively of their years there, but thats only their personal experiences.

One point that I'd like to make is that a lot of people on this forum admire Che, but it doesn't mean we're all Communists per say. Some of us are Anarchists, Socialists, and some views that can't be categorized, but we're basically people who are looking for something other than Capitalism, because of the atrocities that has come to happen around the world in the name of "democracy."

The Statue does say: "Bring me your poor, your tired, your huddles masses yearning to be free." But can you believe saying that to the thousands of illegal immigrants who come from Mexico, Central, and South America who aren't welcomed here as Cubans are? Who die in the Arizona deserts and those who do survive have to live as criminals on a daily basis when all they want is to work and provide for their families? Please tell me why so many immigrate here instead of staying in their "democratic" countries that the USA has faught so hard to maintain?

Just out of curiousity, do you support USA Foreign Policy and do you know of the atrocities that have happened around the world in the name of this "Democracy" that you so whole heartedly support? We're not talking about one country...we're talking about globally.

[(*]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely!

That's actually an argument for communism, and against capitalism.

[Iepilei]

I agree completely that power corrupts. I like the concept of a system of checks/balances that divides power up. I don't want to be ruled by a king, dictator, or any other form of tyrant.

This is why I don't support capitalism.

Why would you support a system which allows for the creation of economic heirarchies? The ability of people to accumulate capital as a means of control and political power is a DIRECT attack on the concept of democracy and everything it means! If you give a man power, he will only want more and more and more! Capital is not only a form of 'freedom of ownership,' it's a damn SOCIAL power! I want the government to serve my interests, and take that money they spend annually on corporate welfare and put it to better use!

People leave Cuba all the time. It's because the U.S. advocates Cuban immigration. Infact, I was reading somewhere not too long ago that Fidel actually allows so many people per year passports OUT if they so desire. A "love it or leave it" policy, it would seem, but I digress. But why? Why would the United States want Cuban immigrants? To speak of the injustices of communism, of course. Even insignificant reasons, which I'm sure there are many of. It's a modern propaganda system, nothing more.

Again I say, I'm not here to praise Castro. I don't support dictators in any form (as I've stated above) but I do believe his model has been one which helped the Cuban people, ultimately. I've been to Mexico, I've heard horror stories about Nicaragua, Panama, and the like. I'd much rather live there than anywhere else in Latin America - and that's a fact.

[RevolucioN NoW]

welcome CS, its about time we got a new capitalist on this board, its been boring of late.


Cuba could have been a utopia! Think about it....people living in harmony..not scared to death to speak their minds, not being forced to do things against their will, not being killed for speaking up in a crowd, disappearing in the night, etc,. Instead, you have a dictator that came to power by overthrowing the previous one, with promises of the aforementioned, who suddenly turns to the dark side. Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce to you: The human aspect!

Ladies and gentlemen, i introduce you to leninism, the vangaurd party, that is the symptoms you describe, not an inheriant failure of socialism/communism. Remeber, Marx called communism "a great increase in democratic rights". Lenins alterations screwed it up.


People all lost their homes, possessions, and families were split up. In turn, (fats forward 44 years), castro lives in a palace while the rest of the island lives in squalor!

I may have just been braiwashed by communist propoganda but i have never seen any facts about people losing their homes etc... excpet if your talking about the rich, who had their properties confiscated for social progress, not out of some pol pot style mass removal. I have heard that castro moves around frequently so as to avoid assasination, not living in some palace which acts like a big "hit me" sign. could i have some sources of that info, not to sound pro castro, i actually dislike his rather authoritarian rule.


Is it the "Bring me your poor, your tired, your huddles masses yearning to be free" part of the Statue?

lol aslong as they arent mexicans, brazilians, well in fact scratch latin america, or iraqi, or in fact scratch the whole middle east, but cubans, as long as it suits our ideaology and it will get bush the votes he needs to steal florida again, well they can come

[Vladimir]

Originally posted by RevolucioN [email protected] 23 2003, 10:34 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, i introduce you to leninism, the vangaurd party, that is the symptoms you describe, not an inheriant failure of socialism/communism. Remeber, Marx called communism "a great increase in democratic rights". Lenins alterations screwed it up.
Would you like to expand on that RN. What kind of 'democratic rights' are you thinking? How did lenin alter Marx's theory?

[Saint-Just]

Cuba could have been a utopia! Think about it....people living in harmony..not scared to death to speak their minds, not being forced to do things against their will, not being killed for speaking up in a crowd, disappearing in the night, etc,. Instead, you have a dictator that came to power by overthrowing the previous one, with promises of the aforementioned, who suddenly turns to the dark side. Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce to you: The human aspect!

You are talking about 'the human aspect' here, that is an integral contradiction between our ideologies. You don't believe that humans are fundamentally good, we however do. We say that Castro is a good human, and there are many good humans like him who create progressive, fair and democratic systems. You are very simply a reactionary, you have a reactionary view of human nature.

People all lost their homes, possessions, and families were split up.

Some people lost their homes, possessions and so on, but the vast majority of people benefitted, the vast majority that you talk about in your 'utopia'. You talk about people speaking up in a crowd and so forth, what about people attaining health care, a job, an education? Castro brought the people who spoke up against Batista to power, he brought to power people who represent the vast majority of ordinary working people.

You are a capitalist with capitalist lies and propaganda, this forum would be better off banning you so you do not influence anyone, in this thread you have already begun to do so.

[LuZhiming]

Cuba could have been a utopia! Think about it....people living in harmony..not scared to death to speak their minds,

This may have some merit. Castro's recent crackdown on dissidents however, were working for the U.S. and trying to ruin Castro's running of Cuba according to a U.S. exile in Cuba: Nehanda Abiodun. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. I know you said your father was killed for speaking his mind, so again, that is clearly a fault of Castro's.


not being forced to do things against their will,

There would be some of these things happening in any system.


not being killed for speaking up in a crowd, disappearing in the night, etc,.

Those are quite rare occurances.


Lest anyone of you think this impoverishment came because of the embargo, remember this all started happening as soon as he came to power.

The same can be said of U.S. terrorism against Cuba.


People all lost their homes, possessions, and families were split up.

Rich people did indeed often lose their homes and possessions. It's unfair without a doubt, but for the type of ideology Fidel Castro was trying to implement, such actions are necessary.


In turn, (fats forward 44 years), castro lives in a palace while the rest of the island lives in squalor! Hell, even Ho Chi Minh REFUSED to live in an old french mansion, preferring to live more like his people in a hut!

I am not going to completely deny what you say either way, but do you have evidence for this?


Folks there HAS to be a reason people are willing to risk life and limb to brave the Florida Straits in search of freedom and democracy! You HAVE to think about that! One simply cannot blindly overlook that. The Florida Straits are littered with the bodies of those that yearn to leave such a country. WHY is that? Laziness? Greed? Brainwashed? Weakness? Is it the will to stand on a street corner and be able to insult the president without getting executed? Wanting the right of due process? The urge to keep everything you work hard for and possess things you'd like? What is it? There has to be a LOGICAL reason WHY people are leaving their countries in droves to go to the U.S.

With this reasoning you can justify every single act of any kind. A lot of it has to do with Cuba being poor, which the U.S. can recieve a lot of blame for, and the U.S. having better opportunities. Does the idea that human selfishness or ambition having something to do with this, ever come to you? Or maybe they are dissidents fleeing from Castro's oppresion! Or they are U.S. backed terrorists that are running from Castro, who is about to suppress them! Perhaps it is mainly made up of the rich people, who lose money to make the lives of Cuban people closer to equality. Or maybe they have heard all about the U.S.' supposed democracy and freedom, and believe it, whether it's true or not, whether they have much knowledge about it or not. I can make up reasons as I go along.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by Chairman Mao+Nov 23 2003, 03:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chairman Mao @ Nov 23 2003, 03:51 PM) You are very simply a reactionary, you have a reactionary view of human nature.[/b]



Chairman [email protected] 23 2003, 03:51 PM
You are a capitalist with capitalist lies and propaganda, this forum would be better off banning you so you do not influence anyone, in this thread you have already begun to do so.
Funny...and I&#39;M the one labelled "reactionary" here..... thats ok Mao. You just showed me your hand&#33; Other than deal with me....debate me....try to prove me wrong...or maybe even TEACH me....its much simpler to TRY to discredit my words...much simpler to "remove" me.....ban me......to shut me up permanently&#33; I see I was right on the "human aspect" of things&#33;

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by Iepilei+Nov 23 2003, 06:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Iepilei @ Nov 23 2003, 06:24 AM)If you give a man power, he will only want more and more and more&#33;[/b] This speaks for itself.


[email protected] 23 2003, 06:24 AM
Infact, I was reading somewhere not too long ago that Fidel actually allows so many people per year passports OUT if they so desire.
Probably the same reason a pressure cooker has a presure relief valve built into it. Like I have stated before...Castro is a genius&#33; And nobody can dispute that&#33;

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by LuZhiming+Nov 23 2003, 04:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LuZhiming @ Nov 23 2003, 04:07 PM) I know you said your father was killed for speaking his mind, so again, that is clearly a fault of Castro&#39;s.[/b]
My uncle....



Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2003, 04:07 PM
Rich people did indeed often lose their homes and possessions. It&#39;s unfair without a doubt, but for the type of ideology Fidel Castro was trying to implement, such actions are necessary.
I never mentioned rich at all. Heck, my family were workers. They lived in a small apartment.


In turn, (fats forward 44 years), castro lives in a palace while the rest of the island lives in squalor&#33; Hell, even Ho Chi Minh REFUSED to live in an old french mansion, preferring to live more like his people in a hut&#33;


[email protected] 23 2003, 04:07 PM
I am not going to completely deny what you say either way, but do you have evidence for this?

Evidence of which? Cubans living in squalor, or Ho Chi Minh refusing to live in a mansion while his people lived in huts?

[Ortega]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 23 2003, 10:51 AM
You are a capitalist with capitalist lies and propaganda, this forum would be better off banning you so you do not influence anyone, in this thread you have already begun to do so.
So that he won&#39;t "influence" people?&#33;?&#33;? Has it really come to that?&#33;?&#33;
If Castro_Sucks is influencing people, its because he has good points and people are simply seeing the truth. Influencing people isn&#39;t bad at all, unless people are being influenced away from you. Obviously, you feel insecure that Castro-Lives will convert some of us former Castro worshippers with the truth.
If the truth influences people on Che-Lives, I would without a doubt call that a good thing. So many of you live lies influenced by Cuban propaganda.

[dopediana]

Its a great system of equality&#33; No class division, etc. HOWEVER, my problem with it is when you introduce the HUMAN aspect&#33; Absolute power corrupts absolutely&#33;

well, gee fucking whiz. could capitalism be a great system of equality of opportunity? oh, let&#39;s see.... if you have access to that opportunity at first. and absolute power corrupts absolutely. in bolivia, thanks to capitalism and "free" trade, water and railroad privatization drove the country into terrible debt and jacked up monthly water bills 200-400%. that is a major problem. and then when the whole country revolts, agents are sent in with guns to kill people for demanding what is rightfully theirs, such as was the case with a SOA operative disguised as a local who killed an unarmed 17 y/o boy in the middle of a protest. isn&#39;t that a rather sick side of capitalism? in communism noone is fighting for resources because as long as the form is true, there is no reason to. and the only real thing that makes us want more is knowing that having more sets us apart from other people and makes them jealous. but even more real than that is knowing that others can have more than us. and humans are trained, influenced this way by their peers. in a utopia, once people realize that noone will be getting an unfair advantage over them, they are content to work together and not succumb to feelings of jealousy or greed because there will be no need for such feelings to be instilled in order to participate in a competitive world. you know people are usually the same as when they were young, precocious, coddled, spoiled kids turn into self-righteous asshole adults and kids who were taught to share, forgive, and were treated as individuals and not playthings tend to be much more easy-going adults.

i could be going off into an entirely different discussion but the point here is that human nature can be manipulated. in third world countries, if you give a kid a candy bar, they&#39;ll share it with anyone else they see because they realize and understand that we all have to look out for eachother, because who else can you count on? here, some kids are loathe to give away even their carrot sticks unless they get a good trade for it.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Its funny, but nobody here seems to acknowledge that castro ISN&#39;T a Marxist NOR a Leninist&#33; Those two terms hardly exist in cuba anymore. Oh sure, he hails them as heros....

If you all will notice, the term "fidelista" or "castrista" has certainly become the norm over there. Face it folks, castro believes only in castro&#33; And that&#39;s why anyone that has visited the island, (and has strayed AWAY from the tourist sector), will see countless posters and images of castro himself. Its a cult of personality&#33; The proof is there folks....don&#39;t take my word for it.

[dopediana]

posters of castro all over the place? well we have goddamn stars and bars all over the place here. it&#39;s the same thing. pushing nationalism under the guise of patriotism in america&#39;s case. tell me that&#39;s not a cult of identity. "united under the american flag" and all that shit. i think you ought to respond to arguments that have been made instead of trying to divert attention from what you don&#39;t know. just own up, kid.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by AllTomorrowsParties+Nov 24 2003, 12:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AllTomorrowsParties @ Nov 24 2003, 12:27 AM) well, gee fucking whiz. could capitalism be a great system of equality of opportunity? [/b]

I&#39;ll only respond to your vulgarities because I can see you&#39;re lost.


Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2003, 12:27 AM
.....and then when the whole country revolts, agents are sent in with guns to kill people for demanding what is rightfully theirs, such as was the case with a SOA operative disguised as a local who killed an unarmed 17 y/o boy in the middle of a protest. isn&#39;t that a rather sick side of capitalism?
So I guess the cuban military killing twenty-something innocent UNARMED kids is the sick side of communism?


Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2003, 12:27 AM
....in communism noone is fighting for resources because as long as the form is true, there is no reason to.
No one is fighting because:
a)they have nothing to fight with. In case you didn&#39;t know, the first thing castro did was to disarm the island by uttering the words "Armas para que? Aqui lo que se necesita son arados, machetes y tractores" ("Why do we need arms? What we need here are hoes, machetes and tractors"). After the "amnesty period" of weapon forfeiture, he made it a law, (punishable by prison) against carrying/owning a weapon. Hell, even the cañeros (those that cut sugar cane) had to relinquish the machetes at the end of the day to the "foreman" before they returned to their barracks. Castro knew that the cuban war of independence was fought mainly with machetes. Like I said...he&#39;s a genius&#33;&#33;&#33; And thus he disarmed an entire country. So you see, there&#39;s nothing to fight WITH&#33; Besides, how is somone that spends most of his day concentrating on how to feed his family going to plot ANY overthrow of ANY government?


[email protected] 24 2003, 12:27 AM
...third world countries, if you give a kid a candy bar, they&#39;ll share it with anyone else they see because they realize and understand that we all have to look out for eachother,
You CAN&#39;T be serious&#33;&#33;&#33; Have you even BEEN to a third world country?&#33; I can&#39;t believe what I&#39;m reading...I WON&#39;T believe it&#33;&#33;&#33; In a third world country you give a candy bar to a kid that&#39;s starving, and he&#39;ll DEVOUR it on the spot&#33; As I have SEEN with my OWN EYES&#33;&#33; Mexico, Belize, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Guatemala, etc.

Sharing as a kid? Don&#39;t make me laugh&#33; Its survival of the fittest&#33;&#33;&#33; Something that&#39;s inbred&#33; Preprogrammed&#33; Its our natural instinct&#33; Thats why we&#39;re TAUGHT to share&#33; Are you now planning to launch a discourse about evolution?&#33;

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2003, 12:41 AM
....just own up, kid.
I&#39;ll leave the owning to you, BOY&#33;

Stars and bars,french flags, puerto rican flags, "fuck you mr. president" stickers, burning American flags, cursing the government, protesting freely....and the list goes on and on&#33; Ahhh the freedom of choice..... ;)

[dopediana]

Originally posted by CASTRO_SUCKS+Nov 24 2003, 12:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CASTRO_SUCKS @ Nov 24 2003, 12:55 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2003, 12:27 AM
.....and then when the whole country revolts, agents are sent in with guns to kill people for demanding what is rightfully theirs, such as was the case with a SOA operative disguised as a local who killed an unarmed 17 y/o boy in the middle of a protest. isn&#39;t that a rather sick side of capitalism?
So I guess the cuban military killing twenty-something innocent UNARMED kids is the sick side of communism?
[/b]
so i guess taking victor jara, the national folk spirit of chile, and maiming his hands so that he would never play again and killing him in a blatant act of terrorism for no other crime than being a peaceful inspiration to the people of chile is ok in terms of capitalism?




Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2003, 12:27 AM
....in communism noone is fighting for resources because as long as the form is true, there is no reason to.
No one is fighting because:
a)they have nothing to fight with. In case you didn&#39;t know, the first thing castro did was to disarm the island by uttering the words "Armas para que? Aqui lo que se necesita son arados, machetes y tractores" ("Why do we need arms? What we need here are hoes, machetes and tractors"). After the "amnesty period" of weapon forfeiture, he made it a law, (punishable by prison) against carrying/owning a weapon. Hell, even the cañeros (those that cut sugar cane) had to relinquish the machetes at the end of the day to the "foreman" before they returned to their barracks. Castro knew that the cuban war of independence was fought mainly with machetes. Like I said...he&#39;s a genius&#33;&#33;&#33; And thus he disarmed an entire country. So you see, there&#39;s nothing to fight WITH&#33; Besides, how is somone that spends most of his day concentrating on how to feed his family going to plot ANY overthrow of ANY government?

thus cutting down on crimes involving brutal weapons. once the first step is acheived, you move on to the next. what good is a machete anyway except for cutting things? tell me why disarmament is bad. if the people are that discontent, they&#39;ll always find a way



[email protected] 24 2003, 12:27 AM
...third world countries, if you give a kid a candy bar, they&#39;ll share it with anyone else they see because they realize and understand that we all have to look out for eachother,
You CAN&#39;T be serious&#33;&#33;&#33; Have you even BEEN to a third world country?&#33; I can&#39;t believe what I&#39;m reading...I WON&#39;T believe it&#33;&#33;&#33; In a third world country you give a candy bar to a kid that&#39;s starving, and he&#39;ll DEVOUR it on the spot&#33; As I have SEEN with my OWN EYES&#33;&#33; Mexico, Belize, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Guatemala, etc.

um. i&#39;ve lived in brazil. it&#39;s 2nd world, but i&#39;ve seen the most dire things that can be seen. i&#39;ve met some of the most amazing people. how would millions of people survive in those nasty favelas or in trashbag tents out by the roadside if they didn&#39;t take care of eachother? i&#39;ve bought food for kids, seen them go and share it with sibs, i&#39;ve spent loads of time with lower middle and upper lower class friends and their families. they all care about eachother. you&#39;re writing people off as being selfish assholes when that is not the case. you&#39;re using extreme pessimism and a right-wing elitist view of human nature to try to pass off your points and noone is buying it.


Sharing as a kid? Don&#39;t make me laugh&#33; Its survival of the fittest&#33;&#33;&#33; Something that&#39;s inbred&#33; Preprogrammed&#33; Its our natural instinct&#33; Thats why we&#39;re TAUGHT to share&#33; Are you now planning to launch a discourse about evolution?&#33;

correction. don&#39;t YOU make ME laugh. who came up with sharing in the first place if everyone is selfish? and one of the most essential things to human survival is interaction with other humans. in order to do that, you have to win the favor of the other person. this is done through showing affection by proximity and giving things. even the biggest bullies got to the top somehow, and that is by conning their way up the social ladder through buttkissing. humans are individuals but cannot exist individually. that is why communism is beautiful. it recognizes that we should support eachother. that is why capitalism is silly. you can never acheive anything by yourself. you are never your own man.

[Urban Rubble]

I ask you again, would you rather have the right to fight the government, or do you want food ? For the people of Latin America, that is a serious choice. Sure, Cubans do live in an environment where things like that are punished, but at least they ALL have food, shelter and healthcare. Something the majority of people in CAPITALIST Third World nations do not have.

[EneME]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2003, 05:44 AM
CS, I can totally understand where you are coming from and that you are naturally biased because of your life experiences. I, myself, am naturally biased also because my family has been and continues to be oppressed because of the "democracy" that the USA forced upon my country to keep it from becoming another Cuba. Also, I have family who lived in Nicaragua during the Sandanista&#39;s and they speak only positively of their years there, but thats only their personal experiences.

One point that I&#39;d like to make is that a lot of people on this forum admire Che, but it doesn&#39;t mean we&#39;re all Communists per say. Some of us are Anarchists, Socialists, and some views that can&#39;t be categorized, but we&#39;re basically people who are looking for something other than Capitalism, because of the atrocities that has come to happen around the world in the name of "democracy."

The Statue does say: "Bring me your poor, your tired, your huddles masses yearning to be free." But can you believe saying that to the thousands of illegal immigrants who come from Mexico, Central, and South America who aren&#39;t welcomed here as Cubans are? Who die in the Arizona deserts and those who do survive have to live as criminals on a daily basis when all they want is to work and provide for their families? Please tell me why so many immigrate here instead of staying in their "democratic" countries that the USA has faught so hard to maintain?

Just out of curiousity, do you support USA Foreign Policy and do you know of the atrocities that have happened around the world in the name of this "Democracy" that you so whole heartedly support? We&#39;re not talking about one country...we&#39;re talking about globally.
Once again I am ignored....wtf? Is it because I actually refrain from cursing at him? Should I just to get his attention? lol I wouldn&#39;t mind....I do curse like a sailor but when only when I need to...

[Urban Rubble]

He ignores alot of stuff. I even PM&#39;d him to get a reply but he wouldn&#39;t do it.

[RevolucioN NoW]

Just a question CS, how do you think that Cuba should be run when Castro dies, do you think that the remenents and offspring of the privlaged criminal element under Batista should rule according to yankee dictates, with the swift hand of the military at the ready.

Do you really want Cuba to become another yankee dependency, under the control of the IMF and big capital, i personally think that would be MUCH worse than what Cubans have now.

At least Cubans have health care, education and the like, under your dream cappie government, these things would disapear overnight.

:ph34r:

[Kapitan Andrey]

PEOPLE&#33;&#33;&#33; Have you seen that:"You are a capitalist with capitalist lies and propaganda, this forum would be better off banning you so you do not influence anyone, in this thread you have already begun to do so."

Mao was ANGRY&#33;&#33;&#33; :o :o :o

CASTRO_SUCKS...man, you&#39;re cool&#33; You&#39;ve driven Mao mad&#33; :o
Your 1st post was very interesting&#33;

[Anastacia]

No country could ever be perfect in everything. I think that freedom of speech is very important. It is really important to have an ability to protest the government if you think that it is inequal. It is also really important to have healthcare, education and food. I don&#39;t know many facts about Cuba but I have heard that the healthcare and education are really good. People don&#39;t have too much food but they don&#39;t really starve. But you, Castro-sucks, can really argue. I really appreciate that. I am in a way socialist. But I really don&#39;t want a dictator leader. One man makes mistakes and isn&#39;t able to have all the power. But I think, or thought, that a country like Cuba really needs a strong leader. You have given me an interesting viewpoint. I have searched objective information about Cuba. Right-wingers say that Castro is a cruel dictator and left-wingers that Cuba is like a paradise on earth. That&#39;s why I decided to go and check it myself... Cool to talk to a person who really have lived in Cuba. Isn&#39;t Cuba a better place after the revolution when citizens have right to study and they have food etc.? Can Cuba offer better to citizens or are the effects of the embargo just too expanded? Does Castro really live in a palace? Do people really starve?

Again, no system is perfect. Progress has to happen all the time.

Castro_sucks can really argue. What are the reasons for banning him? Because he shows the dark side of somebodys&#39; utopia? Do you guys really support free speech? I think everyone should learn about the mistakes. If Cuba really is what Castro_sucks tells, then we should learn that it&#39;s not good that one man rules the whole country. This man can really argue. Many in this forum can&#39;t. They just agree. Why aren&#39;t they banned? Where do one have to disagree for getting banned? This man shows the fact that world is a cruel place and no utopia works perfectly.


You don&#39;t believe that humans are fundamentally good, we however do. We say that Castro is a good human

Who believes? I say that no human is &#39;good&#39;. Everyone are selfish in a way. Castro may be in some part good but not full. The more you have power or money the more selfish you become. History proves the fact. Do I get banned now?

What opinions do one have to argue to have the right to post here? I think everyone of us are different and would act differently in many situations.

[General A.A.Vlasov]

CASTRO_SUCKS...your position is interesting. I respect you.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2003, 04:33 AM
Communism ON PAPER works&#33; Its a great system of equality&#33; No class division, etc. HOWEVER, my problem with it is when you introduce the HUMAN aspect&#33;
Welcome CS.

Your choice for Capitalism above Communism is because of the human aspect. You&#39;re against this human aspect. Yet you choose for a system which rewards the abusive, exploiting elements of society. The human aspect isn&#39;t a bad thing, there are "good sides".

In Capitalism those who exploit others are rewared with money and a higher social status. This creates a canibalistic society. Everyone seeking to be rewarded, everyone wanting to "someone" tries to exploit others for one&#39;s own benefit. This stimulates and doesn&#39;t supress or even let the "bad sides" of the human aspect dissapear. If you really hate and want the human aspects as greed to vanish, then you shouldn&#39;t support a system which stimulates them.


Absolute power corrupts absolutely&#33;

Power corrupts. That&#39;s for certain. Yet in the capitalistic system, there is a power system based on one&#39;s wealth. The most greedy elements in society are stimulated to exploit and then further corrupted by the power taken through money. I can understand that you point out the human aspect as the weak point, in communism.

While Communism has a goal, Capitalism is a system living of the "bad sides" of the human aspect. Every achievement takes trust and effort. For achieving the perfect Communist society, it will demand a lot of trust and effort of all of us.

[Ortega]

Anastacia, you have some very good points. Better than I&#39;ve been able to make in all my defense of Castro_Sucks. Especially this:


Castro_sucks can really argue. What are the reasons for banning him? Because he shows the dark side of somebodys&#39; utopia? Do you guys really support free speech? I think everyone should learn about the mistakes. If Cuba really is what Castro_sucks tells, then we should learn that it&#39;s not good that one man rules the whole country. This man can really argue. Many in this forum can&#39;t. They just agree. Why aren&#39;t they banned? Where do one have to disagree for getting banned? This man shows the fact that world is a cruel place and no utopia works perfectly.

Admins, are you reading this?&#33;?&#33;
General Vlasov, thank you for staying open-minded. I think that this forum is finally starting to realize Castro_Sucks&#39; points and finally welcoming him as a member of our society.
Now if only the admins would just uncage him...

Hasta Siempre, Comrades&#33;

-Comrade_Zapta

[Intifada]

i reckon general vlasov is just kapitan andrey. <_<

castro_sucks should be allowed to say what he wants, as long as it aint nazi shit. however i dont particularly like him.

[Ortega]

If General Vlasov were truly Kapitan Andrey&#39;s way of getting into the other forums, why would Andrey continue to post as General Vlasov when both names are restricted?????? There is now no advantage over just using Andrey as a name&#33;

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2003, 12:55 AM
Its survival of the fittest&#33;&#33;&#33; Something that&#39;s inbred&#33; Preprogrammed&#33; Its our natural instinct&#33; Thats why we&#39;re TAUGHT to share&#33;
That "survival of the fittest" cappie argument is based on the belief that some huge natural disaster will happen in this planet and, when it happens, the strongest should survive to keep the specie alive and much more prepared to survive future incidents.
This is stupid because:
1. Such a thing that can damage so much the animals will harly ever happen
2. Even if it would, most individuals would die
3. We don&#39;t need to live like this if there are plenty of resources for everyone to survive
4. What has given those "strong" individuals that characteristic? God? Does he exist?
That&#39;s ridicoulous, because we don¡t need to live in such a fear for extinction.

[Kapitan Andrey]

ihatebush...moron, idiot,
reckon&#33;? Mods thought that I&#39;m and General... are 1 man about 4 days ago, BUT WE ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE, you blind moron&#33; :angry:

Comrade_Zapata...don&#39;t listen to him, he&#39;s a blind moron&#33;