What inspires a Marxist?

[Elysian]

I am asking this in the spirit of learning.

For marxists, there is no god or afterlife, no soul survives death etc. Everything ends in death, so even if you achieve your goals (workers control or whatever), what's the point? Does this discourage you?

I am trying to understand, so don't attack me.

Elysian

[Leftsolidarity]

This would be "What inspires an atheist?"

for my answer, look at my sig. I quote myself cuz I'm that modest.

[Nox]

The same thing that inspires everyone else. We just want to make the world a better place.

[#FF0000]

For marxists, there is no god or afterlife, no soul survives death etc. Everything ends in death, so even if you achieve your goals (workers control or whatever), what's the point? Does this discourage you?

No? Soul or not, afterlife or not, people still want to die with some kind of legacy -- whether it be kids or a body of work or whatever.

I mean I know you're trying to learn or whatever but this is one of those basic things that is true for literally anyone regardless of whether or not they believe in an afterlife. People still give a shit about a here and now and just because you don't believe in god or anything doesn't mean everything is meaningless to you.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I can't speak for everyone ...

Specifically? Me spending a lot of time wandering around Atlanta with my friends during my 'impressionable teenage years' and seeing first-hand the horrors of our economic system ... it took a long time for me to gravitate to the far-left, but that was the impetus.

The point of doing anything without a god? Well, the same can be said of Christians. If you believe you're going to paradise when you die, what is the motivation to do anything on a large scale in "this world"?

[Os Cangaceiros]

I thought this thread was going to be about something else...

Anyway, we're born, we're compelled to survive. We eat and drink and breathe and continue our existence. But we're a unique animal and somewhere along the line we try to make some sense out of what is probably a pretty (in the cosmic sense) pointless existence, and find religion, or ideology, or even apathy. That's about the best conclusion on this subject that I've been able to arrive at.

[cb9's_unity]

I know remarkably few people who actually consult their god before making their decisions. Most people do what they do every day for reasons that have nothing to do with religion.

The point of goals is for them to be achieved. If I can achieve a few of the rough goals I've set out for myself in life I won't need another point. Even just knowing that I'm making progress on those goals is enough. I don't need to believe in anything but myself for their to be a point in life.

[Prometeo liberado]

My inspiration comes from the hearts and minds of people I see on the street. Trying to get from one bus to another with 4 kids in tow and the family meal in a pram. The 70 year old grandfather day laborer standing on a corner ...waiting. Maybe God works in mysterious ways sometimes. Sometimes in living like this we see there is no mystery. Maybe God doesn't so much inspire, rather get in the way.

[Elysian]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?
i dont have to enjoy the fruits of my lifes labor, when i die i die. i cant take my worldly possessions with me into some sort of afterlife. does it mean i dont want to make the world a better place?



everyone wants to make a point of existence. there is no real 'point' to it. and there is no such thing as fate since there is no all knowing cosmic being that creates and destroys. still, i find myself more compelled to fight than to sit back and smoke weed all day or whatever 'normal' people do.


what i have experienced in life taught me an outlook that led to me learning about marxism and revolutionary thought.
thats all.


to some people, altruism simply cant exist since in some far flung way, it all boils down to people wanting to fornicate for their species. to me, thats a bunch of bullshit. sure, i want the best for my species, but i dont care to have offspring hahaha

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?
You're assuming that we require some sort of selfish motivation to support a radical change in society. What you seem to be doing is advocating complacency with the current system (emphasis mine, appears you're distancing yourself from the far-left movement) under the premise that any changes made will no longer be experienced by us once we die. While we may not be able to experience said changes after death, those that we care for will. For most of us, we care for all working people. Feel free to extrapolate.

[Veovis]

Trying to make my mark on the world.

[Scarlet Fever]

The Earth may be an ultimately insignificant speck of dust in the Universe, but there are beings on this speck who have feelings, dreams, pain... The goal of reducing needless suffering and replacing it with peace, freedom, and equity gives meaning to my life.

In the words of Ché, "At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by great feelings of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality."

[ad novum orbem]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?

The very fact that atheists don't believe in a fantastical utopian afterlife should make one possible answer obvious: If you only have one life, you want it to be the best it possibly can be. IMO, atheists are far less likely to be piously indifferent to hellish conditions on earth than some religious people are who think that humbly accepting a life of suffering guarantees them front row seats to some eternal spiritual encore.

I don't think it's a coincidence that economically depressed regions always seem to be the most religious. The downtrodden need their opium. If those regions were full of atheists (let alone Marxists) they'd be having revolts instead of revivals.

[RedAtheist]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?

We got what you said the first time. I can enjoy the fruits of workers' control while I'm alive and I actually care about other people.

Do you avoid doing anything that will one day end? Do you never start relationships with people, because you know they will end one day? Do you avoid going on vacations because they don't last forever? Can I have your car for free because some time in the future it will fall apart, turn into rubble and become completely useless? What ridiculous reasoning.

[Scarlet Fever]

You're assuming that we require some sort of selfish motivation to support a radical change in society. What you seem to be doing is advocating complacency with the current system (emphasis mine, appears you're distancing yourself from the far-left movement) under the premise that any changes made will no longer be experienced by us once we die. While we may not be able to experience said changes after death, those that we care for will. For most of us, we care for all working people. Feel free to extrapolate.

Second this. Think of a cathedral -- a beautiful structure that took generations to build. I feel that my effort to support the movement is my modest contribution to a cathedral that I believe will inspire awe once complete, though I realize that finish probably won't come in my lifetime. Such perspective gives meaning to our struggles even if we know we won't see them come to fruition.

[#FF0000]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?

You're wrong off the bat because death doesn't necessarily make everything meaningless to a person. The fact that life is fleeting is a p. strong motivator for people to live life how they want to and set goals they want to reach.

I mean, I could ask this very same (dumb) question to you. If you're a christian, why do you give a shit about building a classless, stateless society? It's not like you'll be coming back -here- when you die.

[roy]

I don't need motivation. I just do stuff.

[thriller]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?

Marxism =/= atheism. Inquiring minds should go read a book.

Answer to your question: What inspires you to learn about Marxism if you are just going to die anyways?

[Bronco]

I don't think that believing death is an end is discouraging at all, if anything it just provides more motivation to make something of your life and try and do something meaningful while you can, instead of concerning yourself with what might lie waiting in the afterlife

[magicme]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?

If leftists could accomplish a revolutionary change, or even as they often do stand with the oppressed against attack from whatever, then this could effect things in my/other people's lives in the here and now. For example, the opposition to the poll tax in Britain was led by leftists. I have them to thank for having a slightly fairer council tax to pay instead of the poll tax. Many of these leftists are still alive, so they've got the benefit too.

That's just an example from my life that I could think of quickly. I imagine it applies just as much or more in other parts of the world and in other people's lives with other issues.

Really, there being no evidence whatsoever for an afterlife makes me more annoyed that the people I work for are stealing some of my labour and will consider my labour superfluous if there's not enough profit in it for their shareholders. If I believed that this life was just a warm-up for an infinity in heaven or wherever I'd probably be less cross about the under-productivity, the dearth economy and the crimes caused by the capitalist system than I am now.

Also, if you're really a Calvinist then there is no why besides from God. Predestination is the logical consequence of an all-powerful God. So if Calvinists have a correct handle on the world we're all doing this because that's God plan.

[ColonelCossack]

I am asking this in the spirit of learning.

For marxists, there is no god or afterlife, no soul survives death etc. Everything ends in death, so even if you achieve your goals (workers control or whatever), what's the point? Does this discourage you?

I am trying to understand, so don't attack me.

Elysian

the hope that one day I, too, can eat babies, just like glorious comrade Pol Pot.


Nah, not really. Just having a good life etc. innit. Which isn't all that easy in capitalism.

[Elysian]

You're wrong off the bat because death doesn't necessarily make everything meaningless to a person. The fact that life is fleeting is a p. strong motivator for people to live life how they want to and set goals they want to reach.

I mean, I could ask this very same (dumb) question to you. If you're a christian, why do you give a shit about building a classless, stateless society? It's not like you'll be coming back -here- when you die.

By doing that, you'll be rewarded in the afterlife. Or for a buddhist, he will be coming back to earth - rebirth - so he'd better make sure society improves.

[#FF0000]

By doing that, you'll be rewarded in the afterlife. Or for a buddhist, he will be coming back to earth - rebirth - so he'd better make sure society improves.

Buddhists are reborn until they reach partial enlightenment -- improving society has nothing to do with it. And for christians you don't need to change society to be allowed into heaven.

[Franz Fanonipants]

the poverty and violence i grew up around and that i continue to witness every single day basically motivates me. death or heaven or not

[Franz Fanonipants]

By doing that, you'll be rewarded in the afterlife.

comrade, christ ain't about saving the flesh. you have to accept that, i know you're a "Calvinist" or whatever but the base does not inform the soul (ideas about the soul yeah, but still).

e: anyways for my part, i do recognize like my catholic worker buddies, that capitalism makes sin really really really easy to perpetuate. i do believe that a communist society makes sin shift and although no one will ever be without it, perpetuation of sin cannot be profitable in communism.

[pax et aequalitas]

If I get children maybe even grandchildren I want them to live in a better world than mine. Even better if I'm older I hope I live in that better world together with the billions of others on this planet. I do not need an afterlife to be a loving person who wants to see humanity living in better conditions.

And who knows... maybe I die fighting for revolution and I go to Valhalla...

[The Young Pioneer]

Sex, drugs, rock and roll.

...Though this is Revleft, so maybe just the last two.

[Rafiq]

It's a science. Hunger for knowledge is what drives Marxists.

And if you';re a proletarian, it's class interest. Nothing more.

[blake 3:17]

According to the World Health Organization, 1.1 billion people worldwide lack access to clean water—that’s approximately one in six people on earth.

That's enough for me.

[black magick hustla]

"Resignation is death.
Revolt is life. "

[Azraella]

1. Some Marxists are religious(but it's a rarity as is it a rarity to be a religious anarchist as well).

2. Despite my ideas of what is in store with my soul upon my death, I am very motivated by the state of this world. This shit sucks, and if I am correct, I don't want to live in this hell hole again.

3. Nonreligious Marxists and anarchists probably have a variety of ethical and moral reasons, as well as class consciousness and such pushing them towards revolutionary positions.

[Rebid]

What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.



1. premise: you're not going to enjoy your accomplishments after your death
2. premise: you're going to die
-> 3. conclusion: your accomplishments will have no value.

But this would be logically valid would only if it were true that:
premise 1b: "for some accomplishment to have value, one will enjoy that accomplishment after one's death."

First you'd need to prove that premise (1b).

[runequester]

I am asking this in the spirit of learning.

For marxists, there is no god or afterlife, no soul survives death etc. Everything ends in death, so even if you achieve your goals (workers control or whatever), what's the point? Does this discourage you?

I am trying to understand, so don't attack me.

Elysian

That life may be even the tiniest bit better for my son.

[Capitalist Octopus]

In my life, anything I do is inspired by happiness. If I'm doing something it's to achieve happiness and pleasure directly, or indirectly. Marxism thus far falls under the indirect portion.

[RusskiHermit]

Simple really, I don't like the way things are now and I can actually help work towards making them better. The tools Marx has given us allow us to perceive the beast and kill it!

[Thirsty Crow]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?
On the contarary, it is you who suffers from reading comprehension problems. You present us with the false dillemma of utter egoism and religiosity, and you fail to comprehend how people can develop an attachment to a group defined as it is (humanity, global working class, a nation, an ethnic group, your family) which gurantees (or not, in some cases) some kind of a committment to acting in favour of this group, even when positive outcomes will not affect you because you're dead.
In this situation, the person will have probably be motivated by the desire for some kind of a "legacy" to remain, be it in the memory of others, be it in written/recorded works of a kind, being anything.

I believe the crux of the issue is that some religious people are simply unable to conceive of sociability, of active interest in and care for the future generations, outside religion. I find this a striking flaw, both personal and political when such religious folks enter radical politics.

Oh yeah, there's also one more factor of motivation: pure spite, disdain and contempt for the way things are, coupled with a simple desire not to be bossed around and trampled upon.

[LiquidBryan]

My main inspiration for being vehemently against Capitalism is my experience of living with it my whole life. Under this system, I've suffered a great deal, and with an economic system that benefits everyone, I know things would've been better. I really hate Capitalism because it's such an unfair system that relies on exploiting most of the population. My desire for an egalitarian world and the hatred I have for capitalism fuel me everyday. Other than that, I'm all about cheering for the disadvantaged people, even though we're constantly stigmatized as "lasy" or "stupid." As an atheist, I really want something better because I realize this is the only life I have. That's what really amplifies the fire in me; I'd probably be less angry if I believed in an afterlife and a God because then I'd have something nice to look forward to after dying. Until we have an egalitarian system, I'm gonna continue to fight Capitalism.

Also I don't like how you phrased your question. You're right that most communists/anarchists, and other ultra-leftists are usually not religious. Just because we're not religious doesn't mean that we're not driven or that we don't have any goals. It really is annoying how religious people always assume that we don't care about anything.

It really isn't that hard to fathom why we want to implement a better system.

[Ocean Seal]

Ironically what motivates someone to a cowardly and useless existence being that their existence won't matter? Who cares if I die, who cares if I suffer in this life, who cares about anything really, I just want to do, to propel forward, and hell maybe even see the fruits of my labor before I die, but I don't think that's too important.

[Comrade Auldnik]

Since most people here suffer from reading comprehension problems, let me simplify it: What you accomplish now will have no value since you're going to die anyway, it's not like you're going to enjoy the fruits of workers control after death, lol.

Given this dreary prospect, what motivates you?

So not only are you stupid, you're gonna cop an attitude. The dreary prospect you're referring to must be the prospect that anybody needs the promise of an afterlife just to live a decent life. Why does my death mean that my actions have no value? I'm not the only one who is affected by my actions. This is why I don't think religion and Marxism are compatible. A religious understanding of the world provides a narrowly individualist concept of what it means to have led a good life.