The need to agitate?

[klsv]

- People don't become anarchists/communists, thanks to propganda, anymore. They need to find their own way to it.

- Revolutionary action is mostly a stupidly taken risk. Making the public opinion on other anarchists/communism worse and increasing the chance of statist crackdown on them.

- Anarchism/communism don't have to revolutionary, as taking radical action and agitating/doing propaganda is much more useless than being an example of change you want to see.

- The termn "lifestylist anarchist" is acutally positive. As it would be hyporcitical to talk about a society without state and capitalism, while supporting capitalism and the state with your existance.

Are you pissed off at me already? But wait...these are just some things that I've heard from some of the people in my local, small movement. Just read the other thread in this forum, where I saw something among the lines of "well, in that case they're not revolutionaries" as an argument. But what argument is there against such tendancies? Where a working class person (and not a hippie or a crust punk) says he'll rather be an example, proud to be lifestylist. What would you answer to those claims? Given a "fuck off" would not be a solution.

[Tjis]

First a general note. The path to communism has never been one of convincing people that communism is Good until some kind of critical mass is achieved. Even if it were possible to convince every worker on earth that communism is Good, they'd still be divided on how to accomplish such a society, and too unorganized to accomplish it even if they weren't divided. The long-term organization of the working class into a body that is able to make decisions as a class and then execute them is far more important than agitation and activism.


People don't become anarchists/communists, thanks to propganda, anymore. They need to find their own way to it.
This is just not true. Plenty of people get their first taste of anarchist/communist ideology through the music they listen to, street art they encounter or through conversations with revolutionaries. If there was no anarchist/communist thought to be encountered (and this is all propaganda is: effectively disseminated ideas), how could anyone find their own way to it?


Revolutionary action is mostly a stupidly taken risk. Making the public opinion on other anarchists/communism worse and increasing the chance of statist crackdown on them.
What is revolutionary action? If what is meant is things like urban guerilla and propaganda by the deed then I agree. These are seldomly helpful. But not because they supposedly tarnish the image of radicals, but because they do not contribute to the organization of our class.


Anarchism/communism don't have to revolutionary, as taking radical action and agitating/doing propaganda is much more useless than being an example of change you want to see.
We can't be an example of the change we want to see, because this change is not individual but social. Even if every worker tried to follow the lifestylist example, we'd not have communism because the world's natural resources and means of production would still largely be under control of the bourgeoisie. The change to communism requires expropriation, and this expropriation requires revolution.


The termn "lifestylist anarchist" is acutally positive. As it would be hyporcitical to talk about a society without state and capitalism, while supporting capitalism and the state with your existance.
Actually, lifestylist anarchists depend on the state and capitalism too. Even if you never work or buy anything but instead depend on dumpster diving and the like, you're still consuming things produced by workers under a capitalist mode of production. Living the lifestylist life only provides an alternative for some individuals, but still requires that others go to work and produce commodities to be sold (and thrown away).
Also, workers all over the world go to work every day for a pittance not because they like capitalism so much but because they have to, because they have a family to feed and rent and medicine bills to pay. Lifestylists should recognize this and consider themselves lucky that they can live without having to work instead of considering these workers as complicit in their own exploitation. Also, this moralist mentality substitutes the endeavour of bringing about a communist society with a way of life that allows an individual to live as 'guilt-free' as possible. While this can be nice for some individuals, it doesn't bring about any kind of lasting social change. It doesn't resolve the issues that presumably drove the lifestylist to live like they do in the first place.
To me, the real hypocrisy is calling oneself a communist or anarchist, but then refusing to actually do anything that could bring about communism/anarchism.

[klsv]

Thanks for the reply!



We can't be an example of the change we want to see, because this change is not individual but social. Even if every worker tried to follow the lifestylist example, we'd not have communism because the world's natural resources and means of production would still largely be under control of the bourgeoisie. The change to communism requires expropriation, and this expropriation requires revolution.

I've used this as an argument. The answer (that by my opposition of that conversation "put put me in my place") was that by using DIY methods at a tactic would drain and exhaust the sytem so much that the state would cease to exist. And by DIY he didn't mean getting a punky outfit with DIY patches of crust bands, but building a new system within the existing (aletrnative energy for an example). My response was that we've seen many times in history that the state and capitalists will first regulate the alternatives (starting to produce similar stuff, taxing or making the use of them illegal) and if that doesn't work, with the use of force. Wasn't enough of an argument for him, sadly.



To me, the real hypocrisy is calling oneself a communist or anarchist, but then refusing to actually do anything that could bring about communism/anarchism.

That's a great quotation, thanks!