Spanking?

[Drowzy_Shooter]

I was spanked as a child, I think it made me a better person. However I'm not sure I'll spank. I distinguish between a spank (a strongish pat on the thigh or buttocks) and a beating (blows to anywhere else, or blows to the mentioned places with excessive force). I do know that my little brother doesn't respond to it (he's at a younger age), however he does respond to timeouts. I think you just have to try both on your child one time and see who responds to what.


What do you guys think?



(btw, if you guys can show me some evidence for going against it, I'll be happy to listen :))

[Princess Luna]

Spanking is a form of torture, a very very mild one, but torture none the less. It is using pain to reform and change behavior.

[Drowzy_Shooter]

Spanking is a form of torture, a very very mild one, but torture none the less. It is using pain to reform and change behavior.

I never really thought of it that way. Certainly an interesting point to consider.

[NewLeft]

My parents didn't lay any rules and I think I turned out OK. Alot of it has to do with how I saw my parents..

[The Douche]

I was spanked as a child, I will not spank my children.

I think it teaches children that force/violence is a legitimate response to wrong-doing as a default. For me, I received some sort of violent consequence for virtually any wrong I committed, usually either in the form of spanking or having my mouth washed out with soap.

I think you should treat children as what they are, growing adults. And I don't think somebody should get hit just because they did something I don't like.

[Fennec]

I don't think advocacy of child abuse should be allowed on this forum.

[Sam_b]

I don't think advocacy of child abuse should be allowed on this forum.
This is spot-on.

[Sasha]

Radical leftist, even anarchists, are not against authority but it needs to be "natural" authority, authority based on a understanding by one that the other, by training, experience or talent has a better understanding of a subject or situation. Authority can only been given and never claimed esp on social status or violently demanded.

This goes also for the social relationship between parent and child.

[ed miliband]

i'm the oldest of three children and i was hit as a kid but my parents obviously decided it was shitty 'cos they've never hit either of my sisters

i won't hit my kids if i have them obv

[Nox]

It's wrong. I had bad behavioural problems as a kid, and it only stopped after my parents stopped spanking me.

[brigadista]

hitting a child is a sign of an adult being out of control and its abuse-

if you dont agree with domestic violence you cant agree with hitting a child-

no one hits someone they consider their equal...

[Prometeo liberado]

Spanking involves the easiest short term resolution to solving, or better yet temporarily solving a situation. Spanking infers the temporary absence of the unconditional love that a child wants and needs. Any infliction of pain on another person that is reasoned as behavior mdification is not love. Getting through temper tantrums or whatever the problem is takes committment , patience and understanding from parents. People who cant deal with those things in their own life before having kids have no business trying to get it right at the expense of a wee one.

[Drowzy_Shooter]

I was spanked as a child, I will not spank my children.

I think it teaches children that force/violence is a legitimate response to wrong-doing as a default. For me, I received some sort of violent consequence for virtually any wrong I committed, usually either in the form of spanking or having my mouth washed out with soap.

I think you should treat children as what they are, growing adults. And I don't think somebody should get hit just because they did something I don't like.

I think everybody in this topic has made good points, and I think you present sides of the view that I haven't necessarily thought of. So, I think I'll change my opinion on this.

[Drowzy_Shooter]

Radical leftist, even anarchists, are not against authority but it needs to be "natural" authority, authority based on a understanding by one that the other, by training, experience or talent has a better understanding of a subject or situation. Authority can only been given and never claimed esp on social status or violently demanded.

This goes also for the social relationship between parent and child.

Again, good point.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Honestly, it only pissed me off more. If I have kids, I won't ever hit them.

[brigadista]

Honestly, it only pissed me off more. If I have kids, I won't ever hit them.

me too - made me very angry for a long time

[The Stalinator]

My parents used to spank me when I was three. It didn't do shit for me, just humiliated me and fostered resentment.

[Landsharks eat metal]

My dad used to spank me even though my mom hated it. She finally got across to him that I was too old to be spanked, so now I get slapped. Not hard, and never across the face, but my dad was really hypocritical about everything and didn't notice that he was modeling violent behavior, that I eventually began to imitate.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

My dad used to spank me even though my mom hated it. She finally got across to him that I was too old to be spanked, so now I get slapped. Not hard, and never across the face, but my dad was really hypocritical about everything and didn't notice that he was modeling violent behavior, that I eventually began to imitate.
I really don't know what to say.... That's fucked up, you have my greatest sympathy. IIRC, you don't live with your folks anymore, right?

[Drowzy_Shooter]

My dad used to spank me even though my mom hated it. She finally got across to him that I was too old to be spanked, so now I get slapped. Not hard, and never across the face, but my dad was really hypocritical about everything and didn't notice that he was modeling violent behavior, that I eventually began to imitate.

That really sucks man, I'm sorry for you.

[Landsharks eat metal]

I really don't know what to say.... That's fucked up, you have my greatest sympathy. IIRC, you don't live with your folks anymore, right?
I do still live with them. It's not as bad as it used to be, but now it's the words that are more hurtful.
Although, on occasion, when my father gets especially angry at me, he grabs the top of my head with his one hand roughly like he's going to try to squeeze my brains out. It scares the shit out of me. He also sees nothing wrong with what he does, but then, I am fairly certain he's never admitted to being wrong in his life.

[Minima]

My father comes from a hardworking chinese peasant family, beating kids was a sign of profound love, 4 brothers and one sister, really macho culture in the family. I can't really psychoanalyse myself objectively but i'd say growing up that way in canada will make you a little more neurotic and a little less cocky for sure.

[Minima]

on the other hand white kids getting spanked is usually evidence of things being pretty fucked up (or headed in that direction)

[Sasha]

Spanking kids can cause long-term harm-Canada-study

Tue Feb 7, 2012 12:31pm EST
* Can cause developemental difficulties - analysis
* Authors see issue as medical, not ethical
* Corporal punishment banned in 32 countries
By Cameron French
TORONTO, Feb 7 (Reuters) - Spanking children can cause
long-term developmental damage and may even lower a child's IQ,
according to a new Canadian analysis that seeks to shift the
ethical debate over corporal punishment into the medical sphere.
The study, published this week in the Canadian Medical
Association Journal, reached its conclusion after examining 20
years of published research on the issue. The authors say the
medical finding have been largely overlooked and overshadowed by
concerns that parents should have the right to determine how
their children are disciplined.
While spanking is certainly not as widespread as it was 20
years ago, many still cling to the practice and see prohibiting
spanking as limiting the rights of parents.
That point of view highlights the difficulty in changing
hearts and minds on the issue, despite a mountain of accumulated
evidence showing the damage physical punishment can have on a
child, says Joan Durant, a professor at University of Manitoba
and one of the authors of the study.
"We're really past the point of calling this a controversy.
That's a word that's used and I don't know why, because in the
research there really is no controversy," she said in an
interview.
"If we had this level of consistency in findings in any
other area of health, we would be acting on it. We'd be pulling
out all the stops to work on the issue."
Durant and co-author Ron Ensom, with the Children's Hospital
of Eastern Ontario in Ottawa, cite research showing that
physical punishment makes children more aggressive and
antisocial, and can cause cognitive impairment and
developemental difficulties.
Recent studies suggest it may reduce the brain's grey matter
in areas relevant to intelligence testing.
"What people have realized is that physical punishment
doesn't only predict aggression consistently, it also predicts
internalizing kinds of difficulties, like depression and
substance use," said Durant.
"There are no studies that show any long term positive
outcomes from physical punishment."
While banned in 32 countries, corporal punishment of
children retains at least partial social acceptance in much of
the world. Debates on the issue typically revolve around the
ethics of using violence to enforce discipline.
With the study, Durant hopes parents will start to look at
the issue from a medical perspective.
"What we're hoping is that physicians will take that message
and do more to counsel parents around this and to help them
understand that physical punishment isn't getting them where
they want to go," she said.
She also hopes that countries that allow the practice -
including Canada - will take another look at their child
protection laws.
Canada is one of more than 190 countries to have ratified
the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, a 1989
treaty that sets out protections for children.
The treaty - which has been ratified by all UN member states
except for the United States, Somalia and South Sudan - includes
a passage stating that countries must protect children from "all
forms of physical or mental violence".
"If we had two or three studies that showed that if you
took 500 mg of vitamin C a day you could reduce cancer risk, we
would all be taking 500 mg of vitamin C a day," Durant said.
"Here, we have more than 80 studies, I would say more than
100, that show the same thing (about corporal punishment), and
yet we keep calling it controversial."
(Reporting By Cameron French; editing by Rob Wilson)


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/canada-spanking-idUSL2E8D1F1C20120207

[manic expression]

Eh, IMO there's a real line between spanking and abuse, so as long as it's very mild and infrequent I wouldn't condemn spanking, even if I personally wouldn't do it. Having never raised a kid and having seen how utterly difficult it is, I'm not in a position to judge. Plus, having a "naughty chair" or "time out" or whatever is a form of physical punishment too.

[ColonelCossack]

kiiinkyyy

(well, not really...)

Sometimes MotherCossack slapped me and FatherCossack ruffed me up a bit when I was small. I think it made me behave, but there's almost certainly better ways.

[Obs]

Eh, IMO there's a real line between spanking and abuse, so as long as it's very mild and infrequent I wouldn't condemn spanking, even if I personally wouldn't do it. Having never raised a kid and having seen how utterly difficult it is, I'm not in a position to judge. Plus, having a "naughty chair" or "time out" or whatever is a form of physical punishment too.
Adults shouldn't hit children jesus christ is this actually a debate topic in fucking 2012

[X5N]

It's just downright unnecessary.

[gorillafuck]

adults shouldn't hit adults, so it seems odd that they can hit kids, who should be treated gentler than adults.

doesn't make a whole lotta sense, does it?

[Comrade Auldnik]

I've always been of the firm opinion that the old striking the young is an oppressive act. This isn't to say I'm generally against the infliction of moderate physical pain as a punitive measure, however; I recall Pravda publishing a study on "whipping therapy" conducted on suicidal and depressive adults. The results there were interesting, in that it seems that the controlled whipping actually released endorphins into the body over a long period of time.

[manic expression]

adults shouldn't hit adults, so it seems odd that they can hit kids, who should be treated gentler than adults.

doesn't make a whole lotta sense, does it?
True, but adults aren't allowed to tell other adults to sit in a certain chair for an allotted period of time; adults aren't allowed to tell other adults when to brush their teeth or what to eat for dinner. Children aren't adults and so the two are treated differently.

[Obs]

adults shouldn't hit adults
Are you serious?

[Sasha]

True, but adults aren't allowed to tell other adults to sit in a certain chair for an allotted period of time; [...] Children aren't adults and so the two are treated differently.


i give other adults time-outs allmost daily.... its part of my job

[manic expression]

i give other adults time-outs allmost daily.... its part of my job
Yeah, but I meant two adults without professional relation. Obviously soldiers are told what they're eating for dinner and when to go to bed, but that's more about boss-worker, not adult-adult. But it goes to show that there are different sets of rules for different types of adults, so it's no big leap to see that there are different sets of rules for children as well.

[Sasha]

Yeah, but I meant two adults without professional relation. Obviously soldiers are told what they're eating for dinner and when to go to bed, but that's more about boss-worker, not adult-adult. But it goes to show that there are different sets of rules for different types of adults, so it's no big leap to see that there are different sets of rules for children as well.

but I tell drunk or otherwise out of control adults that they need to go outside and sober up or otherwise clear their head before they are allowed to resume partying, not much different than how you deal with kids. In fact I can say that I have while working security at parties in general far more use of my training as a primary school teacher then my training as a bouncer.

And I would even go so far to argue that a parent spanking a kid mirrors boss-worker behavior. Like I said a couple of pages back authority should be given and can't get conquered...

[manic expression]

Right, out of control adults can't be allowed to carry on like that. Same goes for children, but the relationship is different...when those drunk adults go home they're not following your rules anymore. You wouldn't have anything to do with them had they not taken the time to come to that establishment. That isn't trivia, IMO, it's the basis of the connection. And anyway I assume that if someone persists in being out of control then you have to use physical means of stopping that behavior, no?

But more to the point, if you think authority should always be given then it's not authority at all. If we had to request a child's permission to limit their chocolate intake or how much they brush their teeth we'd be doing them a distinct disservice, and furthermore it would be irresponsible. The same goes for punishments. I'm definitely not saying spanking should be frequently used but it shouldn't be illegalized.