Why I am a Christian

[Elysian]

I hate religion and I hate religious people. But I do like theology, biblical theology, because my primary interest lies in the afterlife. But our afterlife is determined by the good deeds we do in this life, namely ending exploitation, poverty, and all the things that torment human beings. Christ is my example, and so is Marx.

Enough said.:)

[Das_ALoveStory]

You hate religion and religious people? I'm a Christian too comrade, but not sure what you mean by that. Are you talking about the often reactionary nature of organized religion?
Also, I'm assuming that you reject the philosophical side of Marx, correct?

[Искра]

because my primary interest lies in the afterlife. But our afterlife is determined by the good deeds we do in this life
Marx would puke on this. I'll just laugh...

[roy]

So, you hate yourself? :confused:

[Ostrinski]

Marx would puke on this. I'll just laugh...Lmao, I can just picture Marx going on and on for pages about this with his cynical verbose writing style.

[Elysian]

Marx would puke on this. I'll just laugh...

Puking is good for health, it clears the stomach.

[Elysian]

You hate religion and religious people? I'm a Christian too comrade, but not sure what you mean by that. Are you talking about the often reactionary nature of organized religion?
Also, I'm assuming that you reject the philosophical side of Marx, correct?

I meant the reactionary nature of most religions.:(

[Zealot]

So you're a religious person and a Christian, you just hate religious people and religion..? That makes no sense at all, sorry. The afterlife, being your primary interest, is the reason religion isn't liked around here. It blunts potential revolutionaries who have, unfortunately, given up on changing this world and hoping for a better one in the afterlife.

Your reason given for being a Christian is theology and the afterlife, which is a pretty vague reason. When I studied theology I frequently found that it was mostly dominated by the incoherent ramblings of theologists scrambling to find a mystery, even when nothing mysterious was to be found, and then writing an exposition in a purposefully incomprehensible way to amplify the mystery. As for an afterlife, that is a faith-based belief since it cannot be proven.

I'm hoping for something better than a few sentences, Elysian. You've made a few points with nothing to back it up and expect us to understand it. I don't think anyone here is convinced.


Enough said.:)

Not really.

[dodger]

I hate religion and I hate religious people. But I do like theology, biblical theology, because my primary interest lies in the afterlife. But our afterlife is determined by the good deeds we do in this life, namely ending exploitation, poverty, and all the things that torment human beings. Christ is my example, and so is Marx.

Enough said.:)


I am from India, but my brother is a US citizen. How long will it take for me to get there - 10 years max?ELYSIAN


It seems your prayers have not been answered yet, America is heaven on earth(for some). I hope it is for you. Sure you will find plenty of scope for good deeds. The Americans I encountered were not the most spiritual of people but they made up for that by overwhelming us with hospitality and good humour. The TV however is full to bursting(spirituality), as long as you have Diner or Visa, then anyone can show their commitment to God. One need never set foot in a church. My nephew even married in a drive- thru church. Short of viewing a cadaver and watching it decay I fear I can suggest nothing that might make you consider that "When yer dead....yer dead !" and will remain so. Probably best not to go down that route, perhaps a book or Wiki, all the details are known to science. Yer stay dead...that's it folks as Disney said.Or was it "that's all folks", either way one is deceased. Not gonna link the parrot sketch...not this time Elysian. There is far more wonderment in this world than in some musty old book peddled by crusty hypocrites.

[eyeheartlenin]

Yeah, Elysian. As you explain your position (to which I am quite sympathetic), it becomes kind of a tough sale to atheists. In your place, I would have referenced the prophetic tradition from ancient Israel, in which, power and wealth were regularly and roundly criticized, as, for instance, in Amos 2:6, which says of the rich that, "They sell the innocent for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals." Then I would have continued by citing early Christian polemics against wealth, beginning with the dominical (i.e., from Jesus) saying that, to put it in the vernacular of my native North Carolina, "You can get a camel through the eye of a needle quicker than you can sneak a rich man into heaven" (cf. Luke 18:25), as well as the late 1st century CE denunciation of Roman imperial power (which is described in the [New Testament] Revelation to John, 17:5, as "Babylon the Great, Mother of ... the abominations of the earth") and maybe thrown in something contemporary, like the fact that rank and file Catholics have for a long time been active in popular movements against oligarchic rule in Latin America, or the Catholic Worker movement in the US, that always took an exemplary stand against war, while continuing to adhere to a rigorously Christian worldview. That would have made your rap more understandable to the far left, I bet. I believe Marxism insists that truth is concrete, and, for me, that means writing with lots of factual examples. Oh, and leave out the bit about hating anyone, since that harshes people's mellow. Best wishes, ehl :)

[Oswy]

I hate religion and I hate religious people. But I do like theology, biblical theology, because my primary interest lies in the afterlife. But our afterlife is determined by the good deeds we do in this life, namely ending exploitation, poverty, and all the things that torment human beings. Christ is my example, and so is Marx.

Enough said.:)

But there is no 'afterlife', that's just a ploy to encourage people to put up with the inequities and injustices they suffer in this (the only) life.

I'm curious though, what is this 'afterlife' going to be like as you imagine it?

[Sir Comradical]

You should be restricted, don't take it personally.

[Thirsty Crow]

You should be restricted, don't take it personally.
I don't really think s/he does as the site's policy is to restrict (or ban?) preachers, and this user is most obviously nor a preacher. Religious people are allowed, and furthermore, it'd be funny to restrict a person who expresses a clear anti-clerical opinion.

@Elysian: as others have stated, most atheists are going to have a hard time accepting the afterlife hypothesis, but hey, if it keeps you going and provides you with psychological strenght, good for you. Just don't let your theological beliefs and opinions influence your politics, because in my opinion, it would be best if religious communists kept their beliefs on one side and their political convictions on the other. There's a difference between a religious communist and a communist who happens to believe in the afterlife.

[Elysian]

My nephew even married in a drive- thru church.

This is more like it.

http://www.ladieslovelasvegas.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/1lvsign.jpg

[Искра]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpwa9GKTu1fAE0xSluDiFAzE_27S8s4 AkOXiaYP3NASc4JDcMPxkF6Y2WCLQ

[Nox]

Ban all christians init ill beat them all up init fight me init

[Sasha]

Moved to the religion subforum... which is not chitchat BTW so verbal warning to about everyone in this thread, no more image macros etc please.
also a note to the o.p.
While religious leftists are welcome and we as you can see do have a subforum to discuss religion posts like your first are considerd preaching and are not allowed, please refrain from this in the future.

[dodger]

This is more like it.

http://www.ladieslovelasvegas.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/1lvsign.jpg

HAHAHA...NOT QUITE ELYSIAN...THE BRIDE WAS 7 MONTHS PREGNANT.!!!!!!!

but yer got the general idea ok!!! Happy days.........:thumbup1:

[Jimmie Higgins]

So you're a religious person and a Christian, you just hate religious people and religion..? That makes no sense at all, sorry. The afterlife, being your primary interest, is the reason religion isn't liked around here. It blunts potential revolutionaries who have, unfortunately, given up on changing this world and hoping for a better one in the afterlife.

If someone's interest in theology is focused on the afterlife then I find that much more understandable than people who are sympathetic to radical ideas but are interested in what religion does for people in the here and now.

Marxism doesn't attempt to answer these immaterial questions like what happens after you die and so if someone is political and religious and they are interested in this question, I doubt that they also are waiting for pie in the sky when they die and ignoring what they do here - otherwise they wouldn't be interested in the politics of the here and now.

I find religious practices to counter the ills of society to be much more of a dead end because it's usually a moral concern to churches and the like, not a political one. Capitalists are bad because they are greedy and uncharitable, poverty is bad but the only solution is charity most of the time for religious organizations.

So to me if someone is a fighter for a better human world and sees this as a fight based in materialism and human structures and organization, not morals and idealism or the result of original sin or some inherent evilness, but then also is interested in questions of afterlife, then I'm fine with that and would be happy to have them as an ally in struggle.

[Aloysius]

I was a Christian like you once, but then I started listening to Tyler, the Creator.

[artanis17]

Has anybody read the book "Why am I not Christian ?" by Bertrand Russell. When I first saw the topic that came to my mind. Was a good book.

[The Stalinator]

I'm a rather strong atheist myself, but I have respect for peoples' spirituality, long as it doesn't hurt anybody. I don't think that believing in a deity alone makes you a bad leftist, and I think Christ would have been more sympathetic to us than the right-wingers who shit all over his name, you know?

Welcome aboard.

[El Chuncho]

Why are people even humoring this troll? :rolleyes:

[Decolonize The Left]

I hate religion and I hate religious people. But I do like theology, biblical theology, because my primary interest lies in the afterlife. But our afterlife is determined by the good deeds we do in this life, namely ending exploitation, poverty, and all the things that torment human beings. Christ is my example, and so is Marx.

Enough said.:)

:)

Here, from Nietzsche's The Antichrist (http://www.archive.org/stream/theantichrist19322gut/19322.txt) (bold added).


15. Under Christianity neither morality nor religion has any point of contact with actuality. It offers purely imaginary causes ("God," "soul," "ego," "spirit," "free will"--or even "unfree"), and purely imaginary effects ("sin," "salvation," "grace," "punishment," "forgiveness of sins"). Intercourse between imaginary beings ("God," "spirits," "souls"); an imaginary natural history (anthropocentric; a total denial of the concept of natural causes); an imaginary psychology (misunderstandings of self, misinterpretations of agreeable or disagreeable general feelings--for example, of the states of the nervus sympathicus with the help of the sign-language of religio-ethical balderdash--, "repentance," "pangs of conscience," "temptation by the devil," "the presence of God"); an imaginary teleology (the "kingdom of God," "the last judgment," "eternal life").--This purely fictitious world, greatly to its disadvantage, is to be differentiated from the world of dreams; the latter at least reflects reality, whereas the former falsifies it, cheapens it and denies it. Once the concept of "nature" had been opposed to the concept of "God," the word "natural" necessarily took on the meaning of "abominable"--the whole of that fictitious world has its sources in hatred of the natural (--the real!--), and is no more than evidence of a profound uneasiness in the presence of reality.... This explains everything. Who alone has any reason for living his way out of reality? The man who suffers under it. But to suffer from reality one must be a botched reality.... The preponderance of pains over pleasures is the cause of this fictitious morality and religion: but such a preponderance also supplies the formula for decadence....

Next question.

- August

[Misanthrope]

You'll eventually outgrow Christianity, hopefully. Try investing some time in science.

[hatzel]

Try investing some time in science.

I wouldn't recommend anybody waste their time with that mumbo-jumbo, to be honest...

[Comrade J]

OP, I can't disprove God in the same way I can't disprove leprechauns, but I can tell you for a fact that Christianity (in fact, all Abrahamic religions) are complete and utter fabrication. Absolute bullshit. Maybe do away with studying 'theology' (what a fucking non-study that is anyway, you might as well study "Warlock Tarantulas" or some shit) and try history and archaeology..?

Jesusneverexisted.com (http://www.jesusneverexisted.com) will be a good introduction for you.

[Decolonize The Left]

OP, I can't disprove God in the same way I can't disprove leprechauns, but I can tell you for a fact that Christianity (in fact, all Abrahamic religions) are complete and utter fabrication. Absolute bullshit. Maybe do away with studying 'theology' (what a fucking non-study that is anyway, you might as well study "Warlock Tarantulas" or some shit) and try history and archaeology..?

Jesusneverexisted.com (http://www.jesusneverexisted.com) will be a good introduction for you.

Or The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/). Another good resource.

- August

[Elysian]

:)

Here, from Nietzsche's The Antichrist (http://www.archive.org/stream/theantichrist19322gut/19322.txt) (bold added).



Next question.

- August

An anarkiddie quoting N and feeling good about himself. Why am I not surprised?

[Aloysius]

what a fucking non-study that is anyway, you might as well study "Warlock Tarantulas" or some shit

Sig'd.

[Revolution starts with U]

What's so bad about studying warlock tarantulas? I've dedicated my entire life to it!

[The Old Man from Scene 24]

But our afterlife is determined by the good deeds we do in this life, namely ending exploitation, poverty, and all the things that torment human beings.

How do you know that?

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Or The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/). Another good resource.

- August
I'm definitely remembering that ... I'll pass it along to some people ...

Thanks for the link, otter man.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Organized institutions of religion have certainly been instrumentalities of hegemony of not just the bourgeoisie and feudal kings and lords, but date back to antiquity. The role of various religions, to alleviate existential pain through promises of metaphysical bliss is profoundly rooted in our popular culture.

Revolutionaries might do well to approach this issue with great caution while pursuing mass work as offending mass sensibilities is always a real and present danger. Various permutations of the issue of Christianity are probably best understood in the context of the historical roles played by religions in human societies generally.

With regard to the narrow question of Christianity and the revolutionary left, IMO some type of synthesis is possible, but OTOH there would seem to be at least some underlying theoretical tensions between conceptions of human development centered upon social change and Christianity's focus upon the salvation of the individual "soul".

[Azraella]

Maybe do away with studying 'theology' (what a fucking non-study that is anyway, you might as well study "Warlock Tarantulas" or some shit) and try history and archaeology..



I study all three and I'm quite an expert on the history of the Norse and early Catholic theology.



You'll eventually outgrow Christianity, hopefully. Try investing some time in science.


Religious scientist here.

[Decolonize The Left]

An anarkiddie quoting N and feeling good about himself. Why am I not surprised?

So let me get this straight:
- You post on this forum for the first time and ask a silly question about religion.
- I respond with a well-known philosopher who changed the way we think about morals and religion.
- You dismiss my reply and label me an 'anarkiddie'?

Are you looking for a ban for trolling or can you do better than this? Because really, you're failing miserably right now...

- August

[Elysian]

How do you know that?

How do I know what - that there is an afterlife, or that our afterlife is determined by good deeds on earth? In both cases, the bible, of course.:thumbup1:

[Elysian]

So let me get this straight:
- You post on this forum for the first time and ask a silly question about religion.
- I respond with a well-known philosopher who changed the way we think about morals and religion.
- You dismiss my reply and label me an 'anarkiddie'?

Are you looking for a ban for trolling or can you do better than this? Because really, you're failing miserably right now...

- August

N went mad, you really want to quote him? You quote a guy who could barely manage his own life, as if that would have an impact on C. C survived the Neros and the Herods of this world, you think a few modern philosophers with their fan club will be able to destroy it?

[El Chuncho]

Again;

Why are people humouring this troll? A Christian and an anarchist? I think not. We have a few here that are both Christians and leftists but none say stuff like ''How do I know? Because it is in the Bible''. And none have such a belief system so incompatible with leftism as Calvinism! Catholicism, yes, it has had a leftist streak for many years such as with liberation theology, but Calvinism? Please!

[RGacky3]

Calvinism has had many leftists within it (dispite its early pro-capitalist social theology).

Catholocism is only left due to the liberation theology, which has nothing to do with catholic dogma, but rather a social reading of the new testiment, which is'nt limited to catholocism at all.

You even have a left evangelical movement.

[RedAtheist]

I hate religion and I hate religious people.

Vague, pretenious comments about being 'against religion' but for something that sounds pretty goddam similar to religion, annoy me. Could the people who says this please define what religion is and what aspect of it they oppose (an aspect which is not also present in whatever it is they're promoting.)

I opposed to religion at its core, but I will elaborate on that later.


But I do like theology, biblical theology, because my primary interest lies in the afterlife.

This somehow isn't religion? And what do you mean by 'liking' theology? I 'liked' reading a series of fantasy books called Deltora Quest, when I was a kid. That doesn't mean I think the stories were true and I would never called myself a 'Deltorist' because I found the stories interesting. I would ask the poster if he/she actually believed what the Bible said.


But our afterlife is determined by the good deeds we do in this life, namely ending exploitation, poverty, and all the things that torment human beings.

I do not see this idea being promoted anywhere in the Bible. Many verses preach the idea of salvation by faith and those that do focus on people's actions, focus of keeping the commandments and preforming religious acts. No suggestion is made in the Bible that exploitation and poverty should be ended on earth, through humanity's own efforts, not God's (if you disagree give me a quote.)

Jesus never saves anyone from poverty or exploitation, he simply makes their poverty more bearable and even encourages poverty. He tells one man to sell everything he has, give the money to the poor and come follow him. I'm all for helping the poor, but there's nothing virtuous about making yourself poor. There's enough wealth on the earth to provide everyone with a decent standard of living and thus no need for this extreme self denial.


Christ is my example, and so is Marx.
Enough said.:)

This is the part that really bugs me. If by Christ you mean the Jesus presented in the Bible, than you probably know little about either. Take these verses from the Sermon on the Mount (Jesus' most famous sermon) for example.

"But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles." Matthew 5:39 -41

"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you... If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?" Matthew 5:44 and 5:46

Now imagine you encounter a factory full of exploitated workers. Would you give this kind of advice? Would you tell them not to resist their exploiters, to 'turn the other cheek' to them (letting them exploit them more), to give them whatever they want?

What would Marx think of that? I do not think Marx was perfect by any means, but he would not tell those worker to tolerate their oppression in the name of being 'loving'. He would tell them to resist people and stand up to those who persecute you. I respect that. I have no respect for Jesus' be nice to everybody regardless of how they act, nonsense. That doctrine is unfair to those who are not exploiters and oppressors, why should I care if a Christian says they love me, when they (if they were to follow their doctrine) would love Hitler just as much.

Alternatively you could have a viewpoint that Jesus is completely different to the man described in the Bible, like the viewpoint described in this article for instance http://www.sa.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=7177:jesus-the-revolutionary?&Itemid=411 (I am not endorsing this article as historically accurate, by the way, and should point out that my views on the religion differ from the popular viewpoint within the organisation.) But the poster mentioned 'biblical theology' so this probably isn't his stance. Even if we accept the notion of Jesus as some kind of revolutionary, he still wanted to people to follow him without providing any reason as to why they should other than appeals to the supernatural. If he had succeeded he might have ended up a dictator himself, who knows.

In summary, no matter what religion or brand of 'spirituality' you adhere to, such ideologies are fundamentally about submission to something. Submission is not an idea that should be promoted by those aiming for a classless world. Rejecting the authority of religious organisations is not enough. We should not have a submissive or worshipful attitude towards anything, if we want to move beyond a world in which some people dominant others. That does not mean we cannot admire or appreciate people. I admire Marx, but if he appeared before me, gave me a command I found to be immoral and expected me to follow it, I would say 'no way'.

If you have a religion and want to be revolutionary leader, please understand that the religious 'virtues' of submission, faith and 'humbleness' (which is really just a nice word for having a low opinion of one's self and often of humans more generally, eg. humans are inherently evil and God makes them good) have no place in a revolution.

[El Chuncho]

Calvinism has had many leftists within it (dispite its early pro-capitalist social theology).

Calvinism is one of the most repugnant ideologies grouped within Christianity and I do not care how many Calvinist leftists there are, their faith is incompatible with leftism. At least Catholicism leaves some room for forms of actual free will and universalism (meaning that some ''pagans'' can be saved if they are good people); not so with Calvinism. In Calvinism ''god'' actually chose his folowers, thus being that he chose people to suffer in hell for even less of a reason than in even a lot of other bad protestant sects. Only the sins of the elect were cleansed by Jesus's death. This is completely nonsensical elitism and 100% incompatible with Marxism and also logic and decency.

[Revolution starts with U]

N went mad, you really want to quote him? You quote a guy who could barely manage his own life, as if that would have an impact on C. C survived the Neros and the Herods of this world, you think a few modern philosophers with their fan club will be able to destroy it?

He sure didn't survive the Pilates of the world

ZING! :lol:

[Comrade J]

How do I know what - that there is an afterlife, or that our afterlife is determined by good deeds on earth? In both cases, the bible, of course.:thumbup1:

But the Bhagavat Gita says with quite some certainty that we have souls that are reborn into another body, and the quality of the next life is determined by karma, and the Garuda Purana says that the God of Death Yama sends some guys around to collect your soul to take to him... so why aren't you a Hindu?

Similar variations of the same bullshit can be found in thousands of other books, I'm curious as to why you picked this particular one, an anthology of ancient middle-eastern texts compiled and edited by a Roman emperor.

I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but you will not survive your own death...

[Franz Fanonipants]

You'll eventually outgrow Christianity, hopefully. Try investing some time in science.

yes, science

[Thirsty Crow]

N went mad, you really want to quote him? You quote a guy who could barely manage his own life, as if that would have an impact on C. C survived the Neros and the Herods of this world, you think a few modern philosophers with their fan club will be able to destroy it?
OK, troll and a potential preacher, ban please.


Calvinism is one of the most repugnant ideologies grouped within Christianity and I do not care how many Calvinist leftists there are, their faith is incompatible with leftism. At least Catholicism leaves some room for forms of actual free will and universalism (meaning that some ''pagans'' can be saved if they are good people); not so with Calvinism. In Calvinism ''god'' actually chose his folowers, thus being that he chose people to suffer in hell for even less of a reason than in even a lot of other bad protestant sects. Only the sins of the elect were cleansed by Jesus's death. This is completely nonsensical elitism and 100% incompatible with Marxism and also logic and decency.
Oh yeah, I must admit that an alarm bell went of when I saw the calvinist thing in the title, but nevertheless decided to go mild, and only afterwards I bothered to remind myself about calvinism.

[Franz Fanonipants]

this is basically the line i would have to cross to get restricted as a preacher right?

its a good thing i did the math on salvation, i'm not interested in converting you crazies cus that would mean i'd have to put up w.you guys in the kingdom of heaven

[Thirsty Crow]

this is basically the line i would have to cross to get restricted as a preacher right?

its a good thing i did the math on salvation, i'm not interested in converting you crazies cus that would mean i'd have to put up w.you guys in the kingdom of heaven
:D

Not quite, I just think Elysian is a potential preacher. You know, the why-don't-you-believe-you'll-go-to-hell stuff.

[The Old Man from Scene 24]

Religious scientist here.

The is no such thing as a religious scientist. You either believe in the supernatural, or you believe in science. There is no in-between.

[Franz Fanonipants]

The is no such thing as a religious scientist. You either believe in the supernatural, or you believe in science. There is no in-between.

whites have a lot of trouble with the idea that a thing can be more than one thing and still exist

[The Old Man from Scene 24]

whites have a lot of trouble with the idea that a thing can be more than one thing and still exist

So I'm getting that you are a racist? Seriously, why are you bringing race into this? How do you even know that I'm white?

[Franz Fanonipants]

So I'm getting that you are a racist? Seriously, why are you bringing race into this? How do you even know that I'm white?

your worship of interstellar life

[The Old Man from Scene 24]

your worship of interstellar life

Wtf does that have to do with anything? You are a strange troll.

[Revolution starts with U]

That is racist, no doubt about it; worhty of an infraction, if I do say so myself.

Buuuuut... the idea that one cannot be religious and a scientist is easily disproved by the history of science. Plenty of the world's best scientists were rather religious. And the vatican is one of the premier astronomical research facilities in the world.

[Azraella]

The is no such thing as a religious scientist. You either believe in the supernatural, or you believe in science. There is no in-between.


Ok to clarify:

I do scientific research and I happen to have religious beliefs. So I am a religious scientist. Thank you.

[eyeheartlenin]

The is no such thing as a religious scientist. You either believe in the supernatural, or you believe in science. There is no in-between.

I know I have seen pictures of the aged Charles Darwin, holding a large Bible. The only thing I can find tonight is a picture of Darwin's family Bible, at
http://charlesdarwin.prints.uk.com/darwin_family_bible_k010383/print/776137.html

So there! I worked at a prominent engineering and science university for over 30 years; I can assure you, there are lots of religious people, Jews, Christians, Muslims, et cetera, in science and engineering.

[Franz Fanonipants]

That is racist, no doubt about it; worhty of an infraction, if I do say so myself.

i think you should go to the mat trying to get me an infraction

[Franz Fanonipants]

Wtf does that have to do with anything? You are a strange troll.

white colonization fantasies carried out to the intergalactic level

star trek is imperialist pornography

[Elysian]

Calvin loved the poor. (http://www.spindleworks.com/library/vanpopta/calvin.htm)

[Franz Fanonipants]

Calvin loved the poor. (http://www.spindleworks.com/library/vanpopta/calvin.htm)

he was still a protestant soo....

[El Chuncho]

The is no such thing as a religious scientist. You either believe in the supernatural, or you believe in science. There is no in-between.

I am probably one of the most active anti-Christians on this site, but I think that is untrue. You can believe in god and perform, say, Catholic rituals, whilst also being a practitioner of science. Was Newton not a scientist? He was a Christian. Was Einstein not a scientist? He was a pantheist.

Sorry, you can be a scientist and have a religion. Therefore they can be a ''religious scientist'', it just means that they do not let their religion (most of which now acknowledge things like evolution) interfere with their scientific believes; I do not believe in any god, however, I acknowledge that science doesn't disprove the existence of all types of deities.



And the vatican is one of the premier astronomical research facilities in the world.

Indeed, there have been a great load of Catholic scientists even from early days; such as St. Bede (mostly a historian) who described the shape of the Earth for laymen.

Also Hindus invented things like cataract surgery, atom theory and many mathematical theories. Religion is not always a barrier to scientific studies. it just sometimes can be.

[El Chuncho]

Calvin loved the poor. (http://www.spindleworks.com/library/vanpopta/calvin.htm)

Yet he didn't actually do much for them, other than give them a particularly nasty drug to swallow. He loved the poor so much that he claimed most will go to hell, save for a few elites, ''the Elect''. The help his followers offered to the poor was pretty much the same as those that the Salvation Army give; they offer food and comfort, but also try to pressure you into becoming a member of their sect. It is disgusting and, arguably, immoral. If they cared so much they'd not try to convert others, they'd simply help them; much like a Buddhist charity I used to know of which simply helped others without the pressure.

John Calvin reminds me of this:


http://mydavidcameron.com/images/williamson1.jpg

[Revolution starts with U]

i think you should go to the mat trying to get me an infraction

Hey... if youd ont' want to be infracted, don't say racist shit ;)

[Franz Fanonipants]

Hey... if youd ont' want to be infracted, don't say racist shit ;)

no mames pinche gabacho

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what that says. Neither does Google. The only thing it could translate was pinche = clique

[Franz Fanonipants]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what that says. Neither does Google. The only thing it could translate was pinche = clique

which i think qualifies you uniquely to identify and discuss racism

stupid

[eyeheartlenin]

Calvin loved the poor. (http://www.spindleworks.com/library/vanpopta/calvin.htm)

I really don't mean to start anything, but Calvin bears responsibility for the ghastly execution of the Unitarian Michael Servetus in Geneva, where Calvin set in motion the legal process that ended with the killing of Servetus for the "crime" of heresy.

That heresy, i.e., theological disagreement, should be a crime, and that a person should be executed by government, for dissenting from a state-enforced theology, is one of the most appalling features in the history of religion. With friends like Calvin, Christianity does not need enemies.

[The Old Man from Scene 24]

white colonization fantasies carried out to the intergalactic level

star trek is imperialist pornography

*facepalm*

I never said anything about whites.

As for star trek? I think star trek is pretty dumb, and in my real life, I often criticize it because it's full of pseudo-science b*llsh*t.

[Elysian]

I really don't mean to start anything, but Calvin bears responsibility for the ghastly execution of the Unitarian Michael Servetus in Geneva, where Calvin set in motion the legal process that ended with the killing of Servetus for the "crime" of heresy.

That heresy, i.e., theological disagreement, should be a crime, and that a person should be executed by government, for dissenting from a state-enforced theology, is one of the most appalling features in the history of religion. With friends like Calvin, Christianity does not need enemies.

You make it sound as if Calvin invented capital punishment.

[#FF0000]

star trek is imperialist pornography

nuh uh

[Revolution starts with U]

which i think qualifies you uniquely to identify and discuss racism

stupid

Nice logic bro :closedeyes:

[Elysian]

This is probably the only thread in the world where Calvin and star trek are discussed side by side.

[Franz Fanonipants]

nuh uh

comrade i hate to break it to you but it really is

[black magick hustla]

the only religion i have a palatte for is the cult of dyonisius

[gorillafuck]

it's hilarious that franz fanonipants just sees how far he can go with attributing bizarre characteristics to white people, and white people here just take it.:laugh:

[Rafiq]

Keep crying about reverse racism, people.

[Thirsty Crow]

it's hilarious that franz fanonipants just sees how far he can go with attributing bizarre characteristics to white people, and white people here just take it.:laugh:
Why the fuck should I be bothered when I don't identify with the category in question (it's irrelevant to me)?

[gorillafuck]

Why the fuck should I be bothered when I don't identify with the category in question (it's irrelevant to me)?I didn't say that you should be. I didn't say anyone "should be bothered". I said it's funny that he attributes things like "worship of interstellar life" to whites and white people read it but don't want to be accused of racism so they don't point out how hilarious an accusation it is :laugh:

[Weezer]

I swear to God RevLeft, you can be the biggest fucking pricks sometimes.

Holding onto theory like religious-fucking-fanatics.

If someone wants to be a Christian AND A MARXIST, why do we have to feel offended by it? Are you trying to draw as many people away from radicalism as you can?

Some of history's most prominent radical leaders just so happened to be Christian, Catholic, Muslim or other faiths. Eugene V. Debs, Martin Luther King Jr., Thomas Sankara, Malcolm X, Hugo Chavez, James Gareth Endicott, and many Latin American freedom fighters who subscribed to radicalism and Christianity via liberation theology, not to mention most of the men and women fighting for the Cuban Revolution were Catholic.

Just the shut the hell up. All of you.

[Ostrinski]

I swear to God RevLeft, you can be the biggest fucking pricks sometimes.

Holding onto theory like religious-fucking-fanatics.

If someone wants to be a Christian AND A MARXIST, why do we have to feel offended by it? Are you trying to draw as many people away from radicalism as you can?

Some of history's most prominent radical leaders just so happened to be Christian, Catholic, Muslim or other faiths. Eugene V. Debs, Martin Luther King Jr., Thomas Sankara, Malcolm X, Hugo Chavez, James Gareth Endicott, and many Latin American freedom fighters who subscribed to radicalism and Christianity via liberation theology, not to mention most of the men and women fighting for the Cuban Revolution were Catholic.

Just the shut the hell up. All of you.Offended? You seem to be the one offended, comrade. The question deals with a matter of consistency, not of some abstract perception of revolutionary credentials. And while all the people who you mentioned are admirable in their own right, none were consistent Marxists. But that doesn't make them any less admirable regarding their actions. As for if OP wants to declare him/herself a christian Marxist, I should be nothing but content.

[gorillafuck]

I think the whole christian issue is overthought in the west by marxists because christianity is so associated with the christian right and social conservativism here, that it's basically forgotten that christians are perfectly capable of leading liberating social movements. christianity shouldn't be an issue that any socialist really gives a damn about. I don't even identify as an atheist personally, I'm an agnostic who is just apathetic about religion.

[Franz Fanonipants]

i'm a catholic marxist and tbh i just don't give a shit about religion for the most part, muslim, jew, protestant, whatever as long as you're a comrade who cares