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View Full Version : North Korea's Western Fans Mourn Kim Jong Il's Death



KurtFF8
25th January 2012, 19:56
Source (http://news.yahoo.com/still-mourning-western-members-kim-jong-il-fan-081000577.html)



The day before Kim Jong Il's funeral last month, George Hadjipateras, 36, put on a black suit and tie and drove to the North Korean embassy in west London. Beneath a portrait of the Dear Leader, the office clerk laid a floral tribute, red carnations arranged in the shape of a star. He shook the hand of the first secretary lengthily as he pressed upon him that Kim was "a shining light, not just for his people, but for revolutionaries worldwide."
"I mentioned to him I had lost my own father in September, and so this was doubly tragic for me," Hadjipateras says. "My voice broke a bit then." He had been closely monitoring Kim's health since his 2008 stroke and was blindsided by the death. "It's tragic; he should have been getting better," he told TIME. "I was as upset as the English were when the Queen Mother died." (See photos of Kim Jong Il's state funeral.) (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=12h3rpmmj/EXP=1328729367/**http%3A//www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2103202,00.html)
Kim's passing did not exactly move Hadjipateras' fellow Britons to similar displays of grief. Viewed outside his homeland as a crackpot dictator, his death was taken mostly as an opportunity to snicker at his excesses. But despite a scarcity of flowers at the embassy, Kim did not go unmourned in the West. For a decade, Hadjipateras has belonged to the Korean Friendship Association (KFA), an international fan club for the isolated, nuclear-armed neo-Stalinist regime. Its founder is Alejandro Cao de Benós, 37, a Spaniard sometimes known by his adopted Korean name Zo Sun Il, meaning Korea Is One.
Cao de Benós was an idealistic, revolutionary-minded teenager when he first struck up a relationship with North Korean delegates at an international tourism fair in Madrid. On subsequent trips to Pyongyang, he cultivated sufficiently influential connections that by 2000, he was able to convince the regime to allow him to set up the country's first Web page, the only fixed, widely accessible line of communication between the Hermit Kingdom and the wider world. Site traffic from foreigners curious to know more about the mysterious country prompted him to set up the KFA the same year, and he claims it now has 15,000 members in 120 countries.
Cao de Benós, who spends about six months of every year in Pyongyang, has since been recognized with honorary citizenship and a government position as a "special delegate" to its Committee for Cultural Relations with Foreign Countries. (The latter position is unpaid, although Cao de Benós profits by brokering transactions between North Korea and foreign filmmakers, tourists, corporations and other interested parties.) (See photos of Kim Jong Il's busy life.) (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=12hv5ks5h/EXP=1328729367/**http%3A//www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2043921,00.html)
North Korea, Cao de Benós says, was surprised to learn it had friends abroad, and part of his work had been to encourage the regime to show a more open face to its sympathizers. "The country has been under attack, which has made the DPRK [Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea, the North's official name] so wary," he says. "I tell them, If you close the doors completely, nothing bad will enter, but nothing good will enter, either. We can't shut out our friends."
Those friends are typically drawn to North Korea by a sense of ideological solidarity with one of the last keepers of the Communist flame, but even more so by a powerful curiosity about the enigmatic society. Through the KFA, members can study juche, the state ideology of self-reliance, or buy obscure recordings of military parades or songs. Those seeking more active engagement can travel to North Korea on solidarity tours, or participate in pickets of the U.S. embassy. Frank Martin, a Parisian banker and KFA member, wrote to French newspaper editors in the days after Kim's death, chastising them for their mocking tone. "I read some [headlines] like: 'A Buffoon Who Composed Operas While His People Were Starving,'" he told TIME in an e-mail.

Read "North Korea's Runaway Sushi Chef Remembers Kim Jong Un." (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=13mg4gip8/EXP=1328729367/**http%3A//globalspin.blogs.time.com/2012/01/18/north-koreas-runaway-sushi-chef-remembers-kim-jong-un/)
Last November, about 20 of North Korea's friends gathered in a London community center for the KFA's annual international meeting. During a question-and-answer session, a man in a Chairman Mao cap and dark glasses complained of his experiences with local-council housing, and probed how someone in his situation might fare in Pyongyang. Cao de Benós told him he didn't know how good he had it, given the substandard shelter faced by millions. Besides, while moving to the DPRK was theoretically an option on the table for long-serving, senior KFA members, it was wisest to visit first. Even the staunchest friends of the North, Cao de Benós said, could find the rhythms of life there difficult to adjust to. "Every day I receive e-mails requesting to live in the DPRK," Cao de Benós said afterward. "Some because they lost their jobs, but many of them are tired of this Westernized life of artifice, criminality, consumerism."
The appeal of a country known for its food shortages, prison camps and repressive personality cult may be difficult to grasp, but for KFA members it exerts an undeniable pull. Its mystique centers on the impression it belongs to a simpler, more innocent time; members marvel at the way that it cannot be seen from the air at night because its lights are off. In a globalized world, it remains the only country truly off the grid. (See photos of North Koreans mourning the death of the Dear Leader.) (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=12hkhnka9/EXP=1328729367/**http%3A//www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2102766,00.html)
Hadjipateras put it this way. "People in the DPRK aren't wandering around with iPhones listening to Jay-Z. They can't stand in the middle of the street abusing their leaders. But where in the world can you avoid being constantly bombarded by Coca-Cola, McDonald's, the sexualization of children on TV, the Big Brother reality shows?" To those who suggest North Korea is a Big Brother reality show with 24 million unwitting participants, Hadjipateras is dismissive, although he's never been there to judge for himself. He would "be there in an instant," he says, but travel does not agree with him.
Cao de Benós also chooses to spend only half the year in the "workers' paradise," claiming he can better serve the republic by spending the rest of his time in the West, where he frequently acts as an unofficial regime spokesman in international media. His critics point to this as an indication that Cao de Benós is motivated by the rewards of his role as gatekeeper to the regime, rather than by genuine ideological conviction.
Leonid Petrov, a Korea specialist at the University of Sydney, has had dealings with Cao de Benós for more than a decade. He understands North Korea's unlikely charm and feels a warm sense of nostalgia for the Soviet Union of his youth whenever he visits. But, essentially, that appeal is contingent on being able to leave. "Crossing the border is the exciting thing," he says. "But you don't want to stay there -- the place is horrible. Alejandro enjoys acting as a guide who links the two worlds. He's obviously not a defector." (Read about North Korea's plan to preserve and display Kim Jong Il's body.) (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=13eoimthl/EXP=1328729367/**http%3A//newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/12/north-korea-to-preserve-and-display-kim-jong-ils-body/)
While Hadjipateras mourned an icon he had never met, Cao de Benós had personally encountered Kim on numerous occasions in ceremonial capacities. None of the KFA members knows more about his mysterious son and successor Kim Jong Un than the general public: that he has a military background, is Swiss educated, resembles his grandfather, the state founder Kim Il Sung, and is young and inexperienced. Despite the latter, they hold no concerns about the stability of the regime. "Nothing will change," said Martin, via e-mail. "The DPRK has the bomb."
As far as Hadjipateras is concerned, life in the "workers' paradise" will continue as usual, despite dark days in recent months for his fellow revolutionaries. First Muammar Gaddafi, he laments, then the Dear Leader. "I don't know how I'll react when Fidel Castro dies," he says. "I don't even want to imagine."

Shotgun Opera
25th January 2012, 20:51
"First Gaddafi, now the Dear Leader"?

What is this guy's damage?

I find sympathy for Kim Jong-il absolutely bewildering. On no level was this guy a good leader, the only reason there was mourning and turnout at his funeral were the machine guns.

Jong-il never even did anything for any revolution; he inherited control from daddy, took no risks himself, had foreign citizens kidnapped to make fucking movies, mismanaged North Korea into the ground, and starved most of the country while sitting back and guzzling cognac.

MegaBrah
25th January 2012, 21:16
Source (http://news.yahoo.com/still-mourning-western-members-kim-jong-il-fan-081000577.html)


WOW.

It makes you wonder what horrific trauma they went through to develop such manifest insanity and escape from reality.

He was right about one thing though he was a shining light for revolutionaries everywhere, a big fucking neon sign saying beware of dictators.

Fuck Kim man, his only redeeming features were his films and his ability to hold mad drinking sessions with some fine ass brandy.

To quote one macho man randy savage and the bulk that is Hulk:

7rE0-ek6MZA

eyeheartlenin
26th January 2012, 10:30
"Every day I receive e-mails requesting to live in the DPRK," Cao de Benós said...

Anyone who can say what Cao De Benós says above, obviously has a rich fantasy life.


Even the staunchest friends of the North, Cao de Benós said, could find the rhythms of life there difficult to adjust to.

Ya think?

Permit me to reiterate what I wrote previously, in another discussion: North Korea's cheerleaders are doing socialism no favors.

There truly is something pathological, disturbing, about enthusiasm in the West for the North Korean starvation state. It is amazing how North Korea's fans can be in such denial of reality. This must be how it was during Stalin's lifetime, with people in the West enthusing over the show trials and purges. Really sick and really sad!

Buitraker
26th January 2012, 10:31
Jong-il never even did anything for any revolution; he inherited control from daddy.
I cant understand the people who admire a relivied leaders

manic expression
26th January 2012, 10:40
Ya think?
Being an expat in any country demands adaptation to a great deal of difficult changes...saying that one has to adjust to certain rhythms of life is sensible advice that applies to anyone who is thinking about living in a new country, especially one that has an entirely different form of society.

Omsk
26th January 2012, 10:48
This must be how it was during Stalin's lifetime, with people in the West enthusing over the show trials and purges


Here,no,it was not like that.A lot of communists were critical of Stalins decissions,but in general,they supported him,and the USSR,as it was the first country of socialism,and they saw it as a model,which was highly superior than the rotten monarchy that they lived under.However,any doubts were crushed when the USSR made great advances,in idustry and the military,when it supported the revolution,helped the CP and during the war,sent a lot of aid this way.Not to mention tanks.


And on the thread: There is so much "wrong" with that text..
These people dont know about the life in the DPRK.The communists i talked about knew how was life in the USSR,they lived in the USSR,they could study,learn there,they made families there,but still returned to their home-country,to spread the revolution.I am sure the people mentioned expect a flat in Pyongyang and a nice job,not a life in the DPRK country-side.On the other hand,what do you think the people from Europe,communists,started out in the USSR.Nothing.Probably documents,a gun,or some books,some money too.
Do you think they lived in Moscow flats and enjoyed trips around the USSR?No,they worked,worked and studied,they lived in many towns,and when they finished their education,or military training,they returned to their home-countries to help the revolutionary movements there,with expirience they got in the USSR.

manic expression
26th January 2012, 11:04
Nazi Germany was not a fascist evil regime, it was merely the people being hearded into camps like cattle and starving to death while Hitler had everything were having a hard time adjusting to such a different culture.....this is how the fuck you sound right now.

Its just fucking racist, it is not that asian culture and life is insane or difficult to adapt to, its that there is a dictatorship with a tight grip on the peoples emotional, economic and personal lives, the llikes of which has not been seen many times in human existance.
This has nothing to do with your comparison. It has everything to do with how a supporter of the DPRK isn't going to tell everyone that adjusting to life in the DPRK is easy. And he's right to say so; it's never easy for any country, much less one that functions in a completely different way from capitalist society.

Mocking DPRK supporters for recognizing this plain fact is quite cross-eyed.

Deicide
26th January 2012, 12:44
Delusional crackpots(like the ones present in the article) that publicly support existing Stalinist dictatorships or the implementation of such regimes, like North Korea, assist the bourgeoisie in discrediting Socialism/Communism. The majority of the population in the western world will never support Communism/Socialism, if they view the North Korean oligarchical regime as characteristic of Communism or Socialism. Unfortunately this perception is widely held in the west. If we want to get anywhere, support for Stalinist dictatorships has to be eradicated.

A little side note. I've sometimes wondered whether there's underground anti-regime resistance movements active within North Korea, albeit the chances are, we'll probably never know, because of the regimes totalitarian control of all aspects of society. Although, I would guess, that if underground resistence movements do in fact exist, they'll most probably have pro-capitalist sentiments(influenced by the south.) I would also be interested to know whether workers strikes ever occur, but I highly doubt that too, as the punishment would probably be a holiday in a 're-education' camp or some other brutal infliction.

Furthermore, there's only two directions I can see the regime proceeding. Either the masses(military, workers, intellectuals, etc.) overthrow the dictatorship and implement a more humane regime(real socialism?) Or the elite will implement capitalism, based on the China Model: which is already in its early stages of implementation. Which I'm sure you all already know.

the last donut of the night
26th January 2012, 15:02
This has nothing to do with your comparison. It has everything to do with how a supporter of the DPRK isn't going to tell everyone that adjusting to life in the DPRK is easy. And he's right to say so; it's never easy for any country, much less one that functions in a completely different way from capitalist society.


i'm pretty sure living in NK is very akin to living in any third-world capitalist dictatorship run by a a military clique. is that different from living in england? well yeah but don't get carried away and call it a completely different form of society

Thirsty Crow
26th January 2012, 15:07
I'm no psychologist, but it seems to me that people need illusions.

And as an ex-avid devourer of literature (though, I still am to a degree) and an escapist I can relate to such phenomena, although I do think that this particular manifestation is abhorrent, in that any trace of sober critical thought cannot be found. And of course, the issue itself, the "means to escape", simply demands sober, criticl assessment, unlike the example from personal experience I provided (though, some critical thought would be appreciated even in such cases).

manic expression
26th January 2012, 15:07
i'm pretty sure living in NK is very akin to living in any third-world capitalist dictatorship run by a a military clique. is that different from living in england? well yeah but don't get carried away and call it a completely different form of society
I wouldn't say so. In "third-world" capitalist countries one usually needs to figure out their own healthcare, housing arrangements and so on. Safety in "third-world" capitalism is often a glaring issue, as is job security, whereas this seems to not be so much of a concern in the DPRK. I would submit that being an expat in the DPRK would be vastly different from what most would experience in just about any other country.

m1omfg
26th January 2012, 16:07
I am very strongly opposed to DPRK, but to call it a "starvation state" is nonsense. There are many more capitalist countries that have more malnutritrition. The situation in DPRK is serious, but "only" around 32 percent of people are malnourished in many way and only a fraction of that are actually starving instead of suffering a nutritional imbalance caused by a vitamin poor diet. The situation in Somalia is million times worse (an actual, raging famine) yet nobody blames Somalia's anarcho-capitalism for that.

eyeheartlenin
26th January 2012, 19:06
...The situation in DPRK is serious, but "only" around 32 percent of people are malnourished in many way and only a fraction of that are actually starving ...

That is exactly the sort of statement, with its incredible "only a fraction ... are actually starving," that I was writing about.

[Quoting wikipedia.org:]

"The North Korean famine ... began in the early 1990s and ended in the late 1990s. Estimates state that, from a population of approximately 22 million, between 900,000 and 3.5 million people died from starvation or hunger-related illnesses, with the deaths peaking in 1997....

"... economic decline and failed policies provided the context for the famine in the early 1990s, but the floods and storms of the mid-1990s provided the catalyst....

" ... People everywhere were affected by the crisis, regardless of gender, affiliation or social class....

"... As of 2011, famine continues to be a problem for North Korea, although less so than in the mid to late 1990s. Flooding in 2007 and reductions in food aid exacerbate the problem, however.

"In 2011, during a visit to North Korea, US ex-president Jimmy Carter reported that one third of children there were malnourished and stunted in their growth because of lack of food. He also said that the North Korean state had reduced daily food intake from 1,400 calories to 700 calories in 2011 (by comparison, a normal food intake for a healthy European is 2,000-2,500 calories per day).

"Escaped North Koreans report that starvation has returned to the nation. A study by South Korean anthropologists of North Korean children who had defected to China found that 18-year-old males were 5 inches shorter than South Koreans their age. Roughly 45% of North Korean children under the age of five are stunted from malnutrition. Most people eat meat only on public holidays, namely Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il’s birthdays."

* * *

Obviously, North Korea has something vastly different from socialism.

Talk about a social system (in this case, the rule of a privileged caste that is well-fed in the face of general malnutrition), that has failed its people disastrously, that desperately needs to be replaced!

My only other thought is to wonder how a comparison of nutrition between the two Koreas would reflect on the "People's Democratic Republic" in the north. Is the "Republic of Korea" (in the south) subject to repeated famines?

the last donut of the night
27th January 2012, 02:48
I wouldn't say so. In "third-world" capitalist countries one usually needs to figure out their own healthcare, housing arrangements and so on. Safety in "third-world" capitalism is often a glaring issue, as is job security, whereas this seems to not be so much of a concern in the DPRK. I would submit that being an expat in the DPRK would be vastly different from what most would experience in just about any other country.

i'm skeptic as to how efficient and accessible NK's welfare services are to the general population (out of the capital, in rural areas, etc)

tanklv
2nd February 2012, 07:30
I am very strongly opposed to DPRK, but to call it a "starvation state" is nonsense. There are many more capitalist countries that have more malnutritrition. The situation in DPRK is serious, but "only" around 32 percent of people are malnourished in many way and only a fraction of that are actually starving instead of suffering a nutritional imbalance caused by a vitamin poor diet. The situation in Somalia is million times worse (an actual, raging famine) yet nobody blames Somalia's anarcho-capitalism for that.

Umm - actually - Yes - Yes they DO "blame Somolia" - quite frequently and publicly.

Somebody is living in a delusional state - and you stop it...