Log in

View Full Version : George Soros predicts class war



Reed
25th January 2012, 10:16
rt.com/usa/news/george-soros-class-war-619/


Billionaire investor George Soros has a new prediction for America. While it might be as dire as it gets for the financial wiz, this bet concerns more than just the value of the buck. According to Soros, there's about to be an all-out class war.

Soros, 81, previously bet against the British pound in the early 90s and made $1 billion off its collapse. In the years since, hes remained active in investing, but also in advocacy. Hes helped keep Wikipedia afloat thanks to impressive contributions and through donations to the Tides Center, has indirectly funded Adbusters, the Canadian anti-capitalist magazine that put Occupy Wall Street on the map. Speaking to Newsweek recently, Soros neglected to acknowledge his past successes, but instead offered a word of warning: a period of evil is coming to the western world.

I am not here to cheer you up. The situation is about as serious and difficult as Ive experienced in my career, Soros tells Newsweek. We are facing an extremely difficult time, comparable in many ways to the 1930s, the Great Depression. We are facing now a general retrenchment in the developed world, which threatens to put us in a decade of more stagnation, or worse. The best-case scenario is a deflationary environment. The worst-case scenario is a collapse of the financial system.

Soros goes on to compare the current state of the western world with what the Soviet Union was facing as communism crumbled. Although he would think that history would have taught the globe a thing or two about noticing trends, Soros says that, despite past events providing a perfect example of what is to come, the end of an empire seems imminent.

The collapse of the Soviet system was a pretty extraordinary event, and we are currently experiencing something similar in the developed world, without fully realizing whats happening, adds Soros.

Soros goes on to say that as the crisis in the Eurozone only worsens, the American financial system will continue to be hit hard. On the way to a full-blown collapse, he cautions, Americans should expect society to alter accordingly. Riots will hit the streets, says Soros, and as a result, It will be an excuse for cracking down and using strong-arm tactics to maintain law and order, which, carried to an extreme, could bring about a repressive political system, a society where individual liberty is much more constrained, which would be a break with the tradition of the United States.

The recent adoption of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 and the proposed Enemy Expatriation Act, if approved, have already very well paved the way for such a society. Under the NDAA, the US government is allowed to indefinitely detain and torture American citizens suspected of terror crimes without ever bringing them to trial. Should lawmakers Joe Lieberman (I-CT) and Charles Dent (R-PA) get their Enemy Expatriation Act through Congress, the US will also be able to simply revoke citizenship without trial, essentially removing constitutional rights from anyone deemed a threat.

Others have cautioned that, as inequality becomes more rampant in America, the countrys citizens are becoming increasingly agitated with those on the other side of the extreme. In a recent survey released by the Pew Research Center, 66 percent of the adults studied believe that either very strong or strong conflicts exist between Americas elite and the impoverished, a statistic that has skyrocketed in recent years. Between 2009 and 20011, the proportion of those that sense conflicts exist as such between the class groups grew by 19 percentage points. While less than half of Americans fearing a fight brewing at the dawn of the Obama administration, today two-out-of-three Americans feel that there is a strong conflict between both extremes of society.

Addressing the issue of inequality, Soros tells Newsweek that the main issue that will make or break a reelection for US President Barack Obama will be whether or not the rich end up being taxed more. Among the current frontrunners in the Republic Partys race for the GOP nomination, wealth and taxes have been of the biggest concern of party rivals. The top candidates have made millions off of investments, and at a time of immense inequality, represent what 99 percent of Americans dont. Taxing the rich to a bigger degree might finally bring a chance, and Soros says, It shouldnt be a difficult argument for Obama to make.

Soros adds that if the US manages to make it through the troubled times to come, it come allow the nation to enter another golden era. In the crisis period, the impossible becomes possible. The European Union could regain its luster. Im hopeful that the United States, as a political entity, will pass a very severe test and actually strengthen the institution, he tells Newsweek.

With almost seven percent of Americans living below half of the poverty line, four unemployed Americans for each job, a shrinking middle class and an increasingly overzealous police state, it could very well be a tough road to get there, though.

00000000000
25th January 2012, 12:59
Hmm..interesting points there...weird when these kind of arguements and observations come from a wealthy market player..but I suppose they can make valid arguements on any side of the political spectrum without their wealth or occupation affecting it.

Die Neue Zeit
25th January 2012, 14:23
Oh, my. The mainstream media really likes to portray "class warfare" as entailing either riots or populist legislation, doesn't it? :rolleyes:

thriller
25th January 2012, 15:25
New material for Glenn Beck! Btw what 'career' is he referring to? Playing the stock market?

Lynx
25th January 2012, 15:47
Merely saying that there are classes in America is class warfare.

Taxes on the weathy may rise symbolically, but it would take a war to bring them back to the rates that existed previously (90%)

Agathor
25th January 2012, 22:36
I don't see any sign of it. After the misery of the Great Depression, which far exceeds anything we are seeing today, America was radicalised no further than a few decades of reluctant social-democracy. The only country which experienced a radical transformation under it was Germany.

People have been saying that the left is about to come back in a big way for about five years. Apart from OWS, which is petering out, there haven't been any signs of this.

The next few decades look very black. I don't have much optimism left.

Psy
26th January 2012, 01:16
I don't see any sign of it. After the misery of the Great Depression, which far exceeds anything we are seeing today, America was radicalised no further than a few decades of reluctant social-democracy. The only country which experienced a radical transformation under it was Germany.

People have been saying that the left is about to come back in a big way for about five years. Apart from OWS, which is petering out, there haven't been any signs of this.

The next few decades look very black. I don't have much optimism left.

The problem is the current crisis is worse then the Great Depression, today we are talking about the economy contracting even with massive subsidies from bourgeoisie states. No mater how much money the capitalists throw at the crisis it turns out to be insignificant compared to how much the economy contracts.

The capitalists can't maintain the current living standards for the proletariat anymore as capitalists are struggling just to keep the rate of profit in the positive. Now we have a sudden rise in lockouts as capitalists attack workers wages and benefits. OWS was just the first rumblings from the crisis before the contradictions in the crisis lifts the whole social strata into the air.

Agathor
26th January 2012, 14:32
The problem is the current crisis is worse then the Great Depression, today we are talking about the economy contracting even with massive subsidies from bourgeoisie states. No mater how much money the capitalists throw at the crisis it turns out to be insignificant compared to how much the economy contracts.

I don't agree with that. The economies are contracting because the bourgeoisie isn't throwing money as them as they did in the 30s through New Deal programs and rearmament.

The stimulus in the US was predicted by the people who were planning it to be insufficient. At the moment It has about compensated only for falls in state spending. All of Europe has abandoned Keynesianism and most of the E.U is expected to sign onto a treaty which effectively bans Keynesian economics, and the fiscal stimulus.

If the German bourgeoisie had been prepared to throw some money at Greece a few months ago there would be no sovereign debt crisis.

In my opinion, the E.U states, and probably the US after the Republicans take power later this year, are using the crisis as an alibi to destroy what's left of the post-war consensus. After that's finished, they'll probably give the economy a stimulus.

Die Neue Zeit
26th January 2012, 14:57
I don't see any sign of it. After the misery of the Great Depression, which far exceeds anything we are seeing today, America was radicalised no further than a few decades of reluctant social-democracy. The only country which experienced a radical transformation under it was Germany.

People have been saying that the left is about to come back in a big way for about five years. Apart from OWS, which is petering out, there haven't been any signs of this.

The next few decades look very black. I don't have much optimism left.

I didn't have optimism at the outset of the crisis to begin with, until a comrade suggested that something like the Long Depression would bring the left back in a big way. I think we might be in just such a prolonged situation.

Re. my post above, it doesn't help that politically nihilist segments of the left glorify riots for the same reason Soros equates it with the grassroots end of "class warfare."

Psy
26th January 2012, 22:54
I don't agree with that. The economies are contracting because the bourgeoisie isn't throwing money as them as they did in the 30s through New Deal programs and rearmament.

You are forgetting the standardized level of subsidies we have now. Back in the 1930's the US military budget was low for a imperial power while the annual US deference budget is now counts for around 35% of all military spending on Earth. Then you have the subsidies towards suburbanization from roads to guaranteed loans.

Os Cangaceiros
26th January 2012, 23:12
I don't see any sign of it. After the misery of the Great Depression, which far exceeds anything we are seeing today, America was radicalised no further than a few decades of reluctant social-democracy.

I think that there are cycles of people being pissed and complacent, it waxes and wanes. The 30's were a decade where people were pretty pissed, actually. Didn't result in the Russian Revolution-US version, but you're going to be really depressed if that's your measure of success...out of the three classic worker's revolutions (Russia 1917, Germany after WW1, Spain 1936 in the red areas) only one was "successful".

Only one success (if that's really how you measure success) over a century's worth of history...it really makes you understand why some loons fall over themselves praising any despot who throws a Trotsky quote out there or establishes some kind of safety net while decrying the west, doesn't it?


The only country which experienced a radical transformation under it was Germany.

What about Spain?


The next few decades look very black. I don't have much optimism left.

I don't know why people say this. Compare just the last year of 2011 to the news cycle of 2001-2010, which was mostly devoted to the grim corpse mill of the war on terror and war in Iraq. Compare it to the 90's, probably an unprecedented period of low morale for the left.

Os Cangaceiros
26th January 2012, 23:22
Also,


I don't agree with that. The economies are contracting because the bourgeoisie isn't throwing money as them as they did in the 30s through New Deal programs and rearmament..

I think the days of solving financial crises by pouring big buckets of money on the fire are over.


Yet the pressure on the state to spend money is counteracted by an equal and opposite pressureto reduce the public debt. Contrary to what Keynesians are saying, states have spent a lot of money since the crisis broke out. Over the past four years, the US government took on a debt slightly smaller than the entire yearly output of the country in 1990just to slow the rate at which the economy returns to recession. The problem is that the state is accumulating this massive debt in a historical context in which it has, alongside businesses and households, already heavily indebted itself.[5] This historical context is what is missing from the Keynesians account: they havent noticed that the weakness of the economy over the past four decadesthe fact that it was already growing more and more slowly before the present crisishas limited the ability of the state to take on debt today.

http://anarchistnews.org/node/15297

Also, why doesn't George Soros do humanity a big favor and just die already?

Agathor
26th January 2012, 23:56
What about Spain?

I haven't seen anyone track the Spanish Civil War to the Great Depression

Os Cangaceiros
27th January 2012, 00:06
*shrug* well the Great Depression was a world event, so it did impact Spain...although some of the factors in the Spanish civil war were more unique to Spain, like the agrarian policies and such.

Agathor
27th January 2012, 01:50
Financial catastrophes sometimes lead to revolutions but generally only in cases where the state is powerless to alleviate them. The Russian and German revolutions only occurred because of the destruction caused in both countries by World War One. If revolutionary activity took off in Britain, Cameron could probably offset it by terminating the cuts.

Pretty Flaco
27th January 2012, 02:29
In my opinion, the E.U states, and probably the US after the Republicans take power later this year, are using the crisis as an alibi to destroy what's left of the post-war consensus. After that's finished, they'll probably give the economy a stimulus.

are you kidding? there's no way in hell the republicans would win this year. obama is gonna win hands down.

the last donut of the night
27th January 2012, 03:37
and we will be glad to bring it to him

Os Cangaceiros
27th January 2012, 04:27
Financial catastrophes sometimes lead to revolutions but generally only in cases where the state is powerless to alleviate them. The Russian and German revolutions only occurred because of the destruction caused in both countries by World War One. If revolutionary activity took off in Britain, Cameron could probably offset it by terminating the cuts.

It's not a cure-all, though. China, for example, could not institute a "New Deal" if the workers there put serious pressure on the owners of industry, such as what happened in the American mid-west during the 30's. If they did it would drastically change the way the world operates economically. Additionally there are serious divisions within the ranks of economic planners...many times I feel like people on this website assume that capital operates with a cohesiveness that I don't think exists in reality.