What else is "bad: in the world besides capitalism

[mEds]

Well let's see, Ill start a list.
1. Nationalism
2. Inferior Products
3. mediocrity
4. Apple computers
5. Microsoft
6. Any fast food restaurant (yes yes... they're not the reason why you are a fat ass but, they do not benefit society.)
7. Myths
8. Disease

[Marxist in Nebraska]

racism, sexism, homophobia...

Of course, I think capitalism exacerbates these and the problems Dominant names. That is why I commit myself primarily to destroying capitalism. I would rather fight the roots of the tree than waste my time picking off its branches...

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

2. Inferior Products like 2nd/3rd world countries trying to get a foot on the ladder when control standards like ISO9000 force globalisation?

3. mediocrity -huh? you'd rather somehting be extreme-either excellent or shit?


4. Apple computers
5. Microsoft

i understand microsoft, but why do you hate apple so much?
7. Myths
-like making lists of things we hate and expecting it to be a good idea!


i notice you hate often silly things more than torture, pain, starvation, poverty etc which presumably you dont mind too much?

[toastedmonkey]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 20 2003, 07:56 PM
i notice you hate often silly things more than torture, pain, starvation, poverty etc which presumably you dont mind too much?
Good point El Marko

Dominant: You kinda missed Imperialism somehow?&#33; <_<

Apple microsoft mcdonalds, all come under capatilism surely?

It might be an idea to add &#39;not thinking before posting&#39; aswell

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I&#39;m guessing that by mediocrity, he is referring to people&#39;s abilities and intelect. Being superficial, indifferent, characterless, sub-standard, and conventional, all of these are tools of conformity and mass-brainwashing.

I&#39;d add religion, imperialism, racism, chauvinism, elitism, nationalism, homophobia, mysoginy, exploitation, oppression, subjugation, submition, illiteracy, starvation, murder, ignorance, abuse, etc. The list could go on and on. It can be argued that these thinsg all stem from capitalism, but most existed before capitalism. :)

[The Children of the Revolution]

1. Nationalism


Nationalism is OK; &#39;Hitler and Friends&#39; gave it a bad name...



7. Myths


Myths are fairly harmless. We still entertain ourselves (or am I the only one?) with glorious visions of the Russian Proletariat storming the Winter Palace and proclaiming the Revolution to the world... And no-one objects to St. George&#39;s day and the associated festivities... Myths are OK.

My suggestions: (partly thieved from previous posts...)

Exploitation,
Oppression,
Cruelty.

To this can be added the infernal "Pop" music industry.
And "Hip-hop". No good whatsoever.
And Everton supporters.
And Fascists, Nazis, Ariel Sharon, Murderers...
Everything in the world really :(

[Bolshevika]

My list in no particular order:

1) Capitalism/imperialism/the bourgeoisie/their ideas
2) starvation/lack of anything a human being needs (education, health care, etc)
3) Revision/dogmatism
4) Superstition/religion/theism
5) Anarchists posing as Marxists ;)

[toastedmonkey]

Originally posted by The Children of the [email protected] 21 2003, 02:14 AM
Nationalism is OK
What?&#33; Are you out of your mind?&#33;?&#33; (Rethorical Question)

The BNP are the biggest Facist part in the UK, they are far from ok&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Purple]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 08:46 PM

8. Disease
if there was no diseases no one would die.. old people die because of diseas, not because they are old... and fuck no, i dont want to live for all eternity... if people dont die, animals would die, untill there was no one left, and later i would blow up the world.... diseases is good, death is something natural.. only shame is that diseases doesnt fuck up rich people, as much as they do poor....

[kylie]

Bad is a relative term, so what do you mean by it? It&#39;s bad compared to what. Or do you mean something that should not be allowed, something that goes against religious morals, something that doesn&#39;t make sense, or some other meaning?
And also a lot of what has been listed are just descriptive terms, what we ourselves have constructed, and don&#39;t actually have any phsyical form or expression, they just appear depending on how we interpret action. Like &#39;murderers&#39;, or &#39;mediocrity&#39;. Its like saying &#39;rainy&#39; is bad.

[Purple]

Negativity:

Blind Violence
Dictatorship
Selfishness
Violent Movies
Violence Related Entertainment
Alcohol
Smoking(cigaretts)

Positivity:

Death
Disease
Music
Freedom of Speach(concerning all public viewings)

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

toastedmonkey Posted on Nov 21 2003, 09:29 AM
QUOTE (The Children of the Revolution @ Nov 21 2003, 02:14 AM)
Nationalism is OK

What?&#33; Are you out of your mind?&#33;?&#33; (Rethorical Question)

The BNP are the biggest Facist part in the UK, they are far from ok&#33;&#33;&#33;

It depends upon the circumstnces, generally its bad, but if it wasnt for nationalism Cuba would still be the USA&#39;s little pimp fest.

[mEds]

No shit. thats why i put "bad" in quotations i.e. my shitty vocabulary :).
HmM I was just stating topics in "general" (also in quotations..)
Sadism
Masochism
violence ( yes... i am for revolution; violence if neccesary.. however, violence should not be advocated...)
individual i.p.&#39;s ;)
pay to play games (online)
greed
hedonism

[The Children of the Revolution]

What?&#33; Are you out of your mind?&#33;?&#33; (Rethorical Question)

The BNP are the biggest Facist part in the UK, they are far from ok&#33;&#33;&#33;


The key word there being "Fascist". Nationalism does not automatically create Fascism. Nationalism isn&#39;t even a political ideology; it is a cultural desire for the political and national unit to act with the same interests. It influences the politics of whichever system happens to be in place. A "National [ist] Socialist [German] Workers Party" wouldn&#39;t actually be a bad idea in reality. But Hitler had some crazy ideas about race and authority.

Nationalism does not need to be bad. Hitler forever tarnished its reputation, which is a shame.

Nationalism Thread (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=18927)

[Soviet power supreme]

What good is in nationalism?
It can be used wrong but there are no good results on it.

[kylie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2003, 07:02 PM
No shit. thats why i put "bad" in quotations i.e. my shitty vocabulary :).
HmM I was just stating topics in "general" (also in quotations..)
Sadism
Masochism
violence ( yes... i am for revolution; violence if neccesary.. however, violence should not be advocated...)
individual i.p.&#39;s ;)
pay to play games (online)
greed
hedonism
Oh, sorry, i didn&#39;t notice the quotation marks.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Nationalism is NOT ok

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I hate patriotism/nationalism

[The Children of the Revolution]

Nationalism is more than OK; it is incredibly useful.

It is nationalism which has spawned such an outburst at Blair&#39;s actions in Iraq. The War is seen by many as an American conflict in which Britain should not be involved. Therefore, nationalism and patriotism have acted against the War, not for it.

Furthermore, nationalism is a great bulwark against the spread of mono-culturalism currently being seen in the West. If a uniform culture were to be imposed on the West, the result would undoubtadley be increased co-operation between the states concerned. This would increase their powers of exploiation worldwide; Revolution would be extremely difficult.

I&#39;m not saying that every nationalist group is good. The BNP are scum, as were the Nazis. However if introduced and "practiced" correctly, it could be an ally in the struggle against capitalism. For this reason alone, it deserves credit.

[mEds]

Bah. nationalism is the work of IMPERIALISTS like blair.

[The Children of the Revolution]

nationalism is the work of IMPERIALISTS like blair.


NO&#33; You are incorrect, comrade. Imperialism and Nationalism may once have been the same thing in the UK, (say, the Victorian era) but nationalism now goes against Imperial policies, because they do not benefit the countries interests. As much as I hate the BNP for being racist scum, I must applaud their "foreign policy" statement. (Which, with a sinking heart and slightly sick feeling, I retrieved from their website)



Britain’s foreign relations should be determined by the protection of our own national interest and not by our like or dislike of other nations’ internal politics. We would have no quarrel with any nation that does not threaten British interests. We will maintain an independent foreign policy of our own, and not a spineless subservience to the USA, the ‘international community’, or any other country.


(I added underline)

This "nationalism" is against the "Imperial interests" at work in Iraq. Nationalism and Imperialism ARE NOT THE SAME&#33;&#33;&#33;

Disclaimer: I hate the damn BNP so no posts calling me a Nazi, ok? Thank You&#33;

[Purple]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2003, 07:02 PM

Sadism


in a sexually related way i think that it can be good... just to read the chapter about "Satanic sex" in "the satanic bible"... it is not as bad as you would think...

[kylie]

Britain’s foreign relations should be determined by the protection of our own national interest and not by our like or dislike of other nations’ internal politics. We would have no quarrel with any nation that does not threaten British interests. We will maintain an independent foreign policy of our own, and not a spineless subservience to the USA, the ‘international community’, or any other country.

It states we should overlook the internal politics of a country when dealing with them. What if the country is involved in a genocide, or is oppressing its people. Or is just capitalist. From a capitalist point of view, this foreign policy would work, but it totally goes against Marxism.
And why should having an independant policy, based on our own countries wants, be applauded? Marxism is meant to see things from the perspective of the proletariat around the world, not just from one country. Unless you are a national socialist.

[The Children of the Revolution]

From a capitalist point of view, this foreign policy would work, but it totally goes against Marxism.


I know; I was just trying to point out that Nationalism is not the same as Imperialism.

In my view, the West has become far too exploitative to ever undergo a Marxist revolution - the Proletariat in our countries is too small. Capitalism has transcended national boundaries; the Bourgeois "West" now exploits the Proletarian "Rest". (There are exceptions, I know, but as a general rule it works...)

Since a revolution will not occur in the West, the best I can hope for is a Socialist Britain with an independent outlook on the world. We do not want to be lackeys to the US or to Europe. This will strengthen the capitalist position. Therefore, Socialism and Nationalism provide a temporary barrier to excessive capitalist exploitation. In this sense, I suppose I would support a "National Socialist" Party. Alas, this will probably not happen either; people remember (or have heard of) the damned Nazis...

My point is that nationalism is useful; sometimes bad, yes, but equally sometimes good.

[Bolshevika]

I agree, nationalism when used in the right form can attract many members to the communist party and inspire the masses. It is definetly possible to be a nationalist, love for your motherland, yet also an internationalist, love for humanity. It is about coexistence. However, nationalism is many times exploited by the capitalist and fascist.

Reactionary nationalism, nationalism used to do wrong (American nationalism/western nationalism) is in fact dangerous indeed due to the fact that western nationalists believe in the interests of their own country before all others and believe they are superior to all others.

[The Children of the Revolution]

Reactionary nationalism, nationalism used to do wrong (American nationalism/western nationalism) is in fact dangerous


Without a doubt. But, as you said, Nationalism CAN be used constructively. It is one of the popular misconceptions of our time; that Nationalism is inherently bad. This is due, in no small part, to Western propaganda - the same situation can be applied to the demonising of Communism during the Cold War. "Hitler was a Nationalist. Hitler was a bad man. Therefore Nationalism is bad..." Untrue. We must change our opinions of Nationalism; and fast.

[Morpheus]

Opposition to nationalism on the part of the revolutionary left dates from at least the mid-19th century and is a key part of many radical thinkers&#39; philosophies, so it cannot be a product of western propaganda unless Marx, Bakunin & many others were dupes of western propaganda. Nationalism is objectively anti-proletarian. It encourages the workers of countries to side with their domestic ruling classes and submerges class conflict, pretending that the ruling class and working class have the same interests. The workers have no country, our goal should be international revolution not siding with domestic exploiters.

[Comrade of Cuba]

I also think nationalism isn&#39;t good, nationalism leads to patriotism and that leads to imperialism. :(

a little :P quote from Mao:

Can a Communist, who is an internationalist, at the same time be a patriot? We hold that he not only can be but also must be. The specific content of patriotism is determined by historical conditions. There is the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler, and there is our patriotism. Communists must resolutely oppose the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler. The Communists of Japan and Germany are defeatists with regard to the wars being waged by their countries. To bring about the defeat of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler by every possible means is in the interests of the Japanese and the German people, and the more complete the defeat the better.... For the wars launched by the Japanese aggressors and Hitler are harming the people at home as well as the people of the world. China&#39;s case, however, is different, because she is the victim of aggression. Chinese Communists must therefore combine patriotism with internationalism. We are at once internationalists and patriots, and our slogan is, "Fight to defend the motherland against the aggressors." For us defeatism is a crime and to strive for victory in the War of Resistance is an inescapable duty. For only by fighting in defense of the motherland can we defeat the aggressors and achieve national liberation. And only by achieving national liberation will it be possible for the proletariat and other working people to achieve their own emancipation. The victory of China and the defeat of the invading imperialists will help the people of other countries. Thus in wars of national liberation patriotism is applied internationalism.
"The Role of the Chinese Communist Party in the National War" (October 1938), Selected Works, Vol. II, p. 196. *

He thinks that nationalism is good, but you don&#39;t have to exaggerate. because that leads to nationalism leads to patriotism and that leads to imperialism.

[The Children of the Revolution]

Opposition to nationalism on the part of the revolutionary left dates from at least the mid-19th century and is a key part of many radical thinkers&#39; philosophies


Yes, "on the part of the revolutionary left". My point is that Nationalism is now under attack from the public too. It has been seen to spawn Nazism; therefore is bad.



The workers have no country, our goal should be international revolution not siding with domestic exploiters.


Possibly... But look at the state of the West at the moment. Do you think the time is ripe for Revolution? The West have become the exploiters, the developing world the exploited; held in limbo by the Capitalist West with a vested interest in suppressing development. Cultural homogeneity is spreading in the West; when mono-culture has been imposed, the position of Capitalism will be strengthened beyond measure. Western Communists, though there are few of us, can resist this change be encouraging Nationalism in Europe and the US. This will preserve cultural diversity and keep the West in conflict with itself. In turn, this will allow the developing world time to achieve a Revolution - or at least work towards one.

I was not suggesting that Nationalism is THE political theory to embrace... As you said, it tends to unite classes rather than promote the struggle between them. However, it CAN be a useful tool in resisting the development of Capitalism. "Bolshevika&#39;s" comment is also valid:


It is definetly possible to be a nationalist, love for your motherland, yet also an internationalist, love for humanity.

A lone Communist state would do well to introduce nationalism to the masses - again, it would inspire them to reject the onslaught of Capitalism.

Nationalism CAN BE good.

[hazard]

football
american beer
cheap bimbos

[Purple]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 08:35 AM

cheap bimbos
heary heary

[The Children of the Revolution]

american beer


American beer? AMERICAN BEER? American "beer" is foul. European lager beats American beer hands down... And British &#39;Real Ale&#39; beats them both hands down&#33; "Budweiser" should be saved for prison inmates; horrible stuff.

And please tell me that by "football" you mean "soccer"? Not the shoddy American rip-off of Rugby?