The Graying of America's Prisons

[Os Cangaceiros]

Frank Soffen, now 70 years old, has lived more than half his life in prison, and will likely die there.

Sentenced to life for second-degree murder, Soffen has suffered four heart attacks and is confined to a wheelchair. He has lately been held in the assisted living wing of Massachusetts’ Norfolk prison. Because of his failing health and his exemplary record over his 37 years behind bars—which includes rescuing a guard being threatened by other prisoners—Soffen has been held up as a candidate for release on medical and compassionate grounds.

He is physically incapable of committing a violent crime, has already participated in pre-release and furlough programs, and has a supportive family and a place to live with his son. One of the members of the Massachusetts state parole board spoke in favor of his release. But in 2006 the board voted to deny Soffen parole. He will not be eligible for review for another five years.

The “tough on crime” posturing and policymaking that have dominated American politics for more than three decades have left behind a grim legacy. Longer sentences and harsher parole standards have led to overcrowded prisons, overtaxed state budgets, and devastated families and communities. Now, yet another consequence is becoming visible in the nation’s prisons and jails: a huge and ever-growing number of geriatric prisoners.

Increasingly, the cells and dormitories of the United States are filled with old, often sick men and women. They hobble around the tiers with walkers or roll in wheelchairs. They fill prison infirmaries, assisted living wings and hospices faster than the state and federal governments can build them—and since many are dying behind bars, they are filling the mortuaries and graveyards as well.

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/displayArticle.aspx?articleid=22769&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

[Fawkes]

which includes rescuing a guard being threatened by other prisoners

Why on earth would anyone do that?

[danyboy27]

Why on earth would anyone do that?

Beccause he was a human being?

[piet11111]

I can understand the reasoning for his release but then you have old SS men like Heinrich Boere that even with their old age should still be shot for what they have done instead Heinrich lives comfortably in a retirement home.

I am split on this topic so i would say it depends on what the crime was and if the convict really changed.

[danyboy27]

I can understand the reasoning for his release but then you have old SS men like Heinrich Boere that even with their old age should still be shot for what they have done instead Heinrich lives comfortably in a retirement home.

I am split on this topic so i would say it depends on what the crime was and if the convict really changed.

If the person is no longer a threat to society then there is no reason to keep him/her locked up.

Vengeance and punitive justice does not achieve anything productive anyway.

Look at it on the bright side piett, the old coot will cost less to society if he is released than if he stay in.

An old person in a elderly center cost less than a old person in a jail, keep that in mind.

[Princess Luna]

I can understand the reasoning for his release but then you have old SS men like Heinrich Boere that even with their old age should still be shot for what they have done instead Heinrich lives comfortably in a retirement home.

I am split on this topic so i would say it depends on what the crime was and if the convict really changed.
If someone know longer presents a threat to society then they should be let out regardless of their crime, maybe a exception can be made in cases of genocide. But those are extreme circumstances, and number of people currently sitting in a US prison for genocide can most likely be counted on one hand.

[piet11111]

Like i said i am split on this but that someone like Heinrich Boere gets to live comfortably in a retirement home unpunished just because he is considered too old to serve jail time offends me to no end.

And yes i know this is an extreme case and people like Frank Soffen should be released from prison but the release of people purely based on old age is not something that should be done all the time.

[danyboy27]

if it can give you any meaningful kind of consolation, he lost all his youth and a shitload of relative, with multiple health issues like incontinence and memory loss,the burden of almost any people of that age i doubt his life is ''comfortable'' right now. He is waiting for the end and he know almost everyone hate him.

showing him some mercy at the end of his life is probably the best way to demonstrate that we are not ruthless like him.

[cb9's_unity]

My problem has always been people treating justice like it is a "thing." It's almost like justice is a cup that needs to be filled when a wrong has been done. People get so caught up in feeding the needs of justice that they forget about the needs of everyone else.

The justice system ought to be about nothing more than protecting the rest of society from criminals in crime. To a degree there must be deterrent element, but cases like the OP show just how unnecessary the current system goes about doing it. Nobody is ever going to think "Attempting this crime is only worth it because they might give me medical leave when I'm decrepit and dying."

Human decency is a better example to society than petty revenge.

[piet11111]

if it can give you any meaningful kind of consolation, he lost all his youth and a shitload of relative, with multiple health issues like incontinence and memory loss,the burden of almost any people of that age i doubt his life is ''comfortable'' right now. He is waiting for the end

That is old age for everyone.


and he know almost everyone hate him.

And this is still not exclusive to war criminals.


showing him some mercy at the end of his life is probably the best way to demonstrate that we are not ruthless like him.

I don't get why we would need to prove ourselves better at everything at every turn.
I know i am better then Heinrich Boere and feel no need to prove that to anyone.

And i still am a spitefull bastard so lets hang the SS man on the highest tree we can find !!

[RevSpetsnaz]

Like everything else in the US the prison system is a business, the more transactions the more monetary income.

[danyboy27]

don't get why we would need to prove ourselves better at everything at every turn.
I know i am better then Heinrich Boere and feel no need to prove that to anyone.

And i still am a spitefull bastard so lets hang the SS man on the highest tree we can find !!

The problem with death penality is how easy it is for a governement to use it to fix everything.

the more it kill people, the more institutional killing become part of everyone lives has a relatively normal thing.

how do you think people like Heinrich Boere came to be? trought the normalisation of violence within society.

Look, i am not a pacifist, if violence is necessary to react to a threat, so be it, but killing should never be viewed has a casual way to fix problems.

[maskerade]

America's prison/penal system is honestly one of the most dystopian things in the world. The existence of private prisons baffles me - how can a state, surely interested in lowering the number of prisoners, allow private enterprise, defined by expansion, to run correctional facilities? it's fucking stupid and doesn't even make sense as a proper business model unless private prisons explicitly try to increase the amount of prisoners.

Prisoners are our comrades, trapped by a prison-industrial complex fuelled by institutionalized racism.

[X5N]

I believe in justice based on rational grounds -- that is, preventing crime. I see no use in keeping someone in jail when they are physically incapable of committing a crime. Revenge-based ideas of "justice" are barbaric and useless.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Why on earth would anyone do that?

No matter where you go you always run into some bootlickers and victims of Stockholm Syndrome.

I was in prison with a Native American guy locked up on totally bullshit charges who was extolling the virtues of Ronald Reagan and U.S. conservatism!

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Beccause he was a human being?

So was Tojo.

"If you want to see some of the scum of society, just go to a prison parking lot at shift change!" - Paul Harvey

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

U.S. prisons are filled with some of the most desperate and needy people in the country: long-term unemployed, uneducated, elderly, mentally retarded, etc. And to say prisoners are disproportionately black, brown and working class would be an understatement.

You can literally trace the economic crises and destruction of industrial jobs in the U.S. and the unprecedented rise in imprisonment on a graph and come up with an almost identical line.

These are prisons: warehouses for those thrown to the side by capital. The bottom of the army of the unemployed.. people that capital has no use for and will never have any use for.

This is the future. This is barbarism.

[piet11111]

The problem with death penality is how easy it is for a governement to use it to fix everything.

the more it kill people, the more institutional killing become part of everyone lives has a relatively normal thing.

how do you think people like Heinrich Boere came to be? trought the normalisation of violence within society.

Look, i am not a pacifist, if violence is necessary to react to a threat, so be it, but killing should never be viewed has a casual way to fix problems.

Look i am in favor of the death penalty to permanently remove the threats to society that can not be rehabilitated.

But when it comes to war criminals of the caliber of SS men then a switch is flipped and i would feel a whole lot better if all of them are hunted down and put to justice.

That those that managed to hide long enough to reach old age and therefor are no longer capable of doing harm are to be left alone because they are sickly old men is horribly offensive to my sense of justice.

Yes i know that this just boils down to me wanting revenge for crimes committed long before i was born and that justice based on revenge is a very bad idea but still this is the SS we are talking about here and i have a very hard time to see these "people" as anything but monsters.

And then there are cases like the Pinochet and Franco regimes where the government officials that took part in the murders where all offered legal immunity via a reconciliation law.
Those people wont be prosecuted either heck Franco's family where given a title of nobility (a duchy if i am not mistaken).

[Seth]

Throw away the key rrrrrnnnngh

[danyboy27]

Look i am in favor of the death penalty to permanently remove the threats to society that can not be rehabilitated.

But when it comes to war criminals of the caliber of SS men then a switch is flipped and i would feel a whole lot better if all of them are hunted down and put to justice.

That those that managed to hide long enough to reach old age and therefor are no longer capable of doing harm are to be left alone because they are sickly old men is horribly offensive to my sense of justice.

Yes i know that this just boils down to me wanting revenge for crimes committed long before i was born and that justice based on revenge is a very bad idea but still this is the SS we are talking about here and i have a very hard time to see these "people" as anything but monsters.

And then there are cases like the Pinochet and Franco regimes where the government officials that took part in the murders where all offered legal immunity via a reconciliation law.
Those people wont be prosecuted either heck Franco's family where given a title of nobility (a duchy if i am not mistaken).
There are several reasons why the death penality is not viable but the most strongest case against it is the risk of killing innocent peoples.
Bourgeois justice or not, shit will always happen now and then, and falsely accused people will go to jail for crimes they didnt commit.

Killing those people are not worth all the innocents that will be killed has a result of having the death penality put in place.

An individual who cannot be reformed can still be of some use for case study in psychology and can still engage in some form of productive labor, a dead person is of no use.

[danyboy27]

So was Tojo.

"If you want to see some of the scum of society, just go to a prison parking lot at shift change!" - Paul Harvey
Since i will probably never be able to convince you that some prison guard are decent human being, i will use the argument that by saving the guard, he probably avoided his friends an additional 25 to life sentence.

[piet11111]

There are several reasons why the death penality is not viable but the most strongest case against it is the risk of killing innocent peoples.
Bourgeois justice or not, shit will always happen now and then, and falsely accused people will go to jail for crimes they didnt commit.

Killing those people are not worth all the innocents that will be killed has a result of having the death penality put in place.

The death penalty should only be used when its clear without a doubt that the actual individual is guilty.
In the USA its often used where guilt is not obvious.

And Heinrich Boere is guilty without a doubt because of the SS personnel files and numerous eye witness accounts.

And another candidate for the gallows Anders Breivik is also guilty without a doubt.


An individual who cannot be reformed can still be of some use for case study in psychologyI suppose but i would rather not be hoarding such dangerous individuals.


and can still engage in some form of productive labor, a dead person is of no use.I would rather avoid recreating the gulags and instead have non-dangerous individuals given a job as a means to gain some luxery.
The most dangerous people should not be given any chance to escape or harm anyone else.
And last time i checked dead people are the demographic least likely to kill someone or commit any crime whatsoever ;).
Now if we manage to put the likes of Heinrich or Anders into that demographic then society would be a lot safer for it.
And the scientifically minded could then still investigate their brains if they gave up their body to science.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

The death penalty should only be used when its clear without a doubt that the actual individual is guilty.
In the USA its often used where guilt is not obvious.

And Heinrich Boere is guilty without a doubt because of the SS personnel files and numerous eye witness accounts.

And another candidate for the gallows Anders Breivik is also guilty without a doubt.

I suppose but i would rather not be hoarding such dangerous individuals.

I would rather avoid recreating the gulags and instead have non-dangerous individuals given a job as a means to gain some luxery.
The most dangerous people should not be given any chance to escape or harm anyone else.
And last time i checked dead people are the demographic least likely to kill someone or commit any crime whatsoever ;).
Now if we manage to put the likes of Heinrich or Anders into that demographic then society would be a lot safer for it.
And the scientifically minded could then still investigate their brains if they gave up their body to science.
'Beyond a reasonable doubt' is what sent Mumia Abu-Jamal to prison. Witnesses were coerced before the trial to retract vindicating testimonies in favor of pointing him out as the killer. To the jury, to the judge, he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt based on the information available.

One only has to look at the wave of people being released due to newly-available DNA testing in crime labs in the US. These people are often freed from previous charges of murder, rape, etc. Some of them missed the death penalty by a few years, countless others have already fallen victim to it yet were innocent; we can't know. In all cases, based on information available, the jury decided that they were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Institutionalized racism has historically played a factor in innocents being imprisoned. Watch the movie 'Life' for a lighthearted look at institutionalized racism sending innocent people to prison for life.

The death penalty is unacceptable. It's murder. The only time death should be accepted, never praised, is during a time of conflict. The 'revolution' we're all waiting for.

[Fawkes]

Since i will probably never be able to convince you that some prison guard are decent human being

And I'm sure there are many cops that are "decent human beings". Hell, there were probably even a few SS guards whose friends described them as "decent human beings". That changes nothing. The role they play in larger institutions of oppression remains the same. Fuck them.


And yeah, you could say he prevented his fellow inmates from getting extended sentences, but it also could have possibly prevented another Attica.

[danyboy27]

And I'm sure there are many cops that are "decent human beings". Hell, there were probably even a few SS guards whose friends described them as "decent human beings". That changes nothing. The role they play in larger institutions of oppression remains the same. Fuck them.

Would you use the same kind of thinking if the guard was about to stop one detainee from raping another?
I dont challenge your argumentation that resistance or even violent action should be used against repressive forces, has you demonstrated it can lead to progressive things, all i am saying is that circumstances might lead some people to not kill or be indifferent to the killing of another human being who is part of a repressive system.




And yeah, you could say he prevented his fellow inmates from getting extended sentences, but it also could have possibly prevented another Attica.
I dont think it even crossed the mind of the guy when he stopped the fight.