Subcultures....

[Hexen]

Such as Hippies, Goths, Emos, Hipsters, Punks, etc....are they the instrument of introducing and training individualism & alienation perpetrated by capitalism at a young age?

Most likely so....

[Firebrand]

Such as Hippies, Goths, Emos, Hipsters, Punks, etc....are they instrument of introducing and training individualism & alienation perpetrated by capitalism at a young age?

Most likely so....

Actually the more I think about it, subcultures/countercultures are really nothing more than a divide & conquer strategy.

Probably depends on the sub-culture and the person, I doubt they're all particularly keen on overthrowing society as we know it. They're more a way of drawing attention than actually changing the entire structure of society.

Having said that i think sub-cultures do play an important part in helping people who are not comfortable with the mainstream either politically or socially find people who think the same way and that can in itself help people share different ideas. I think what i' trying to say is that while sub-culture doesn't in itself lead to radical thought or dissent, it can form a haven which radical thought can florish. According to Marx "The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas". Thats why its important to have subcultures which don't subscribe to the ruling ideas, because on the whole while subcultures don't always support radicalism they are infinately more likely to do so than the mainstream.
However it's important not to make sub-cultures a defining feature of radical politics because then it can act as a divide and rule thing.

[bcbm]

Such as Hippies, Goths, Emos, Hipsters, Punks, etc....are they the instrument of introducing and training individualism & alienation perpetrated by capitalism at a young age?

Most likely so....

'capitalism' isn't consciously 'training' people in these things, they are a product of the material conditions it creates. are people outside of subcultures less individualistic or alienated? if anything they are probably more so than those who find solace in a communal identity. subcultures are just marketing.

[KR]

Such as Hippies, Goths, Emos, Hipsters, Punks, etc....are they the instrument of introducing and training individualism & alienation perpetrated by capitalism at a young age?

Most likely so....
Do you find anything wrong with individualism?

[Hexen]

Do you find anything wrong with individualism?

The very existence of capitalism is what wrong with individualism because it's the very basis of it because individualism breeds selfishness, backstabbing, greed, etc therefore we have a entire system (i.e. capitalism) built around it.

[newdayrising]

Sometimes, yes.
Sometimes, however, subcultures create an environment where people can create, interact and think collectively outside of bourgeois institutions such as schools, Unions and so on.
When this is the case and the material conditions are prone, it's fertile ground for people to raise consciousness and get in touch with radical thought. To realize their potential though, they'll have to leave the confines of subculture and know how to criticize it's limitations.

In short, they might be a good starting point. I'm sure more than a few people here got into politics though punk, hip-hop or hippie related subcultures at least to a degree.


Such as Hippies, Goths, Emos, Hipsters, Punks, etc....are they the instrument of introducing and training individualism & alienation perpetrated by capitalism at a young age?

Most likely so....

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

The very existence of capitalism is what wrong with individualism because it's the very basis of it because individualism breeds selfishness, backstabbing, greed, etc therefore we have a entire system (i.e. capitalism) built around it.

Not quite, as Karl Marx quite rightly pointed out, the individualism of Capitalism is largely limited to the bourgeoisie, however the working class is brought up in a collectivist environment whereby they are expected to exist within a tight and highly structured economic body. The individualism/collectivism divide is something determined by class under Capitalism, thus Capitalism is not inherently individualistic but instead has a dual, contradictory nature.

[The Young Pioneer]

Such as Hippies, Goths, Emos, Hipsters, Punks, etc....

Don't most people outgrow such shit after high school/college? :confused:

I don't think a strong argument can be made with the subcultures you've listed in particular. Such things are more clothing style and pubescent fads than deeply influential ideologies.

Also, individualism is a good thing- it creates diversity. And diversity is not an enemy of the left. Capitalism is the enemy of diversity because it keeps those minority cultures in the lower classes.

IMHO.

[Искра]

Such as Hippies, Goths, Emos, Hipsters, Punks, etc....are they the instrument of introducing and training individualism & alienation perpetrated by capitalism at a young age?

Most likely so....
That's why I'm a skinhead. We believe in group beating up of all those subcultures you mentioned. That's called colectivism.

[thriller]

Don't most people conform to the status quo after high school/college? :confused:


Fixed :)

Are emo's subculture? From my understanding they are the embodiment of teenage angst that MTV markets ohh so very well.

I think subcultures, at least some, are direct responses to the alienation that capitalism creates such as punks and squatters. The punks and squatters that I know are not too keen on revolutionary struggle and class conflict, but they are directly opposed to the current situation (capitalism, at least in my neck of the woods). I mean just go to a real underground punk show. There will be no fireworks or Pepsi sponsorship or body guards protecting the rich artists from the struggling fans. There will be puke on the walls and it will be raining beer. Or go to a squat. Either way subcultures are a good way to measure the amount of discontent within a society, in my opinion.

[The Douche]

Anybody who thinks individualism is something that needs to be done away with makes me really uncomfortable. In your post-revolutionary world does the state regulate haircuts and clothing?

I think subcultures have zero effect on communism. Are some people in subcultures communists? Yes, and some aren't, there is no particular connection which is positive or negative. I know people who wear designer clothes that are communists, I know punks and hippies who are communists. I fail to see how the clothes one wears, the music one listens to, or the friends one has, has any effect on if you are a communist or not.

[danyboy27]

I dont like the word subculture, it sound so..negative.
how do you identify a subculture from a ''real'' culture, is there any standards set on this subject?

To me, culture is just a set of custom adopted by a certain group of people.

[The Douche]

I dont like the word subculture, it sound so..negative.
how do you identify a subculture from a ''real'' culture, is there any standards set on this subject?

To me, culture is just a set of custom adopted by a certain group of people.

Sociology defines a subculture as being a culture which is different from the dominant culture, and a counter-culture as a culture which is actively opposed to/questioning the dominant culture.

[Tim Cornelis]

The very existence of capitalism is what wrong with individualism because it's the very basis of it because individualism breeds selfishness, backstabbing, greed, etc therefore we have a entire system (i.e. capitalism) built around it.

Which is a completely idealist approach. Capitalism came about due to materialist reasons, that is, it was the increase in the productive forces (the industrial revolution) that allowed for the establishment of capitalism.

By your reasoning it was individualism and its associated values (selfishness, backstabbing, greed, or whatever) that existed prior to the establishment of the capitalist mode of production and was, in fact, the cause of its establishment.

We do not build systems around "values".

Regarding individualism and collectivism; I find this dichotomy entirely arbitrary. A system in which the collective is used in the benefit of the individual and vice versa is both individualist and collectivist.