North Koreans sent to camps for not crying hard enough after their leader's death...

[Zostrianos]

If the NK dictatorship wasn't insane enough, now they're deporting people into forced labour camps for 6 months (http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/13/10146614-report-six-months-in-labor-camp-for-n-koreans-who-didnt-cry-at-despots-funeral), for not crying hard enough when the Dear Dictator died....

North Korea is punishing citizens who didn’t cry during the orchestrated public mourning over the death of Kim Jong Il, sentencing them to six months in a labor-training camp, according to a report.
The South Korea-based Daily NK newspaper (http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&num=8668) said authorities have held “criticism sessions” for those who “transgressed” during organized weeping in the wake of the dictator’s death.
It said North Koreans accused of criticizing the world’s only hereditary totalitarian regime are being sent to re-education camps or being banished with their families to remote rural areas.
The news website quoted a source from North Hamkyung province saying: “The authorities are handing down at least six months in a labor-training camp to anybody who didn’t participate in the organized gatherings during the mourning period, or who did participate but didn’t cry and didn't seem genuine.”
The source added that the recriminations "created a vicious atmosphere of fear.”
Authorities are also forcing citizens to idolize Kim Jong Il’s youngest son, Kim Jong Un, newly-installed as leader.
“Every day from 7 a.m. until 7 p.m., they have vehicles for broadcast propaganda parked on busy roads full of people going to and from work, noisily working to proclaim Kim Jong Un’s greatness,” the source said.
The website also reported that school children and factory workers are being made to study “the greatness of Kim Jong Un” in education sessions “packed so tightly together without a break that people are just exhausted.”
It added that it was able to verify the public trial claim, but noted authorities had earlier ordered the shooting of anyone who attempted to defect to South Korea during the mourning period.

Another link:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/317731

[Homo Songun]

Seems legit.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Iau3R3yMIr4/R_nbyo4rE9I/AAAAAAAAA5I/K334sx3bAkw/s400/gullibility+test.gif

[Zostrianos]

Seems legit.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Iau3R3yMIr4/R_nbyo4rE9I/AAAAAAAAA5I/K334sx3bAkw/s400/gullibility+test.gif

Oh boy...
Here come the Kim apologists :rolleyes:

[Zostrianos]

I know it won't make any difference to you Kim apologists, but here's a few other links to the story from different sources:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/13/north-korea-punish-mourners-insincere-kim-jong-il_n_1204377.html?ref=world

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085636/North-Koreans-face-labour-camps-upset-death-Kim-Jong-il.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/n-korea-send-citizens-didn-t-mourn-kim-jong-il-forced-labor-s-korean-website-article-1.1005187

[Skammunist]

Although it might be propaganda, I wouldn't put it past the North Korean government to do something like this. I mean, did you see how the distinguised military officers seemed to just bawl their eyes out at the Dear Leader's death? It was faker than Pamela Anderson's jugs.

[Zostrianos]

For apologists, if it makes the Kims look bad it's automatically propaganda.

[roy]

Skammunist beat me to it. Western propaganda aside, this wouldn't be out of character for the regime at all. Why apologise for the Kims?

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

I know it won't make any difference to you Kim apologists, but here's a few other links to the story from different sources:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/13/north-korea-punish-mourners-insincere-kim-jong-il_n_1204377.html?ref=world

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085636/North-Koreans-face-labour-camps-upset-death-Kim-Jong-il.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/n-korea-send-citizens-didn-t-mourn-kim-jong-il-forced-labor-s-korean-website-article-1.1005187


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHUvDgLgHf8fqF2vFZBwLbBKWRoCwlX 1BzzKB6aY52qoKKGwM2

[Zostrianos]

Now here's some cold hard facts::rolleyes:
"North Korea's state news agency (http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng) reported this week that magpies and bears were observed mourning Kim Jong Il, who died Dec. 17 and was succeeded by his son Kim Jong Un (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Kim+Jong-un). On Dec. 23, "workers of the Taehung Youth Hero Mine saw three bears on a road when they were coming back from a mourning site after expressing deep condolences over the demise of leader Kim Jong Il," the news agency's English-language website stated. "The bears, believed to be a mother and cubs, were staying on the road, crying woefully."

I guess this must be true and not propaganda, since they were reported by NK media (not by the western lying propaganda machine). It's much more reasonable and believable to accept that wild animals are mourning Kim Jong Il's death, eh guys? :rolleyes:

[Ostrinski]

Now here's some cold hard facts::rolleyes:
"North Korea's state news agency (http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng) reported this week that magpies and bears were observed mourning Kim Jong Il, who died Dec. 17 and was succeeded by his son Kim Jong Un (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Kim+Jong-un). On Dec. 23, "workers of the Taehung Youth Hero Mine saw three bears on a road when they were coming back from a mourning site after expressing deep condolences over the demise of leader Kim Jong Il," the news agency's English-language website stated. "The bears, believed to be a mother and cubs, were staying on the road, crying woefully."

I guess this must be true and not propaganda, since they were reported by NK media (not by the western lying propaganda machine). It's much more reasonable and believable to accept that wild animals are mourning Kim Jong Il's death, eh guys? :rolleyes:good god i havent laughed this hard in a while.

[Yugo45]

Now here's some cold hard facts::rolleyes:
"North Korea's state news agency (http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng) reported this week that magpies and bears were observed mourning Kim Jong Il, who died Dec. 17 and was succeeded by his son Kim Jong Un (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Kim+Jong-un). On Dec. 23, "workers of the Taehung Youth Hero Mine saw three bears on a road when they were coming back from a mourning site after expressing deep condolences over the demise of leader Kim Jong Il," the news agency's English-language website stated. "The bears, believed to be a mother and cubs, were staying on the road, crying woefully."
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I also heard that some people "reported" the mountain crying or some shit. :lol:

OT, it wouldn't suprise me if it's true, but I can't take the news serious because it comes from a South Korean newspaper. Meh.

[Tjis]

I know it won't make any difference to you Kim apologists, but here's a few other links to the story from different sources:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/13/north-korea-punish-mourners-insincere-kim-jong-il_n_1204377.html?ref=world

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085636/North-Koreans-face-labour-camps-upset-death-Kim-Jong-il.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/n-korea-send-citizens-didn-t-mourn-kim-jong-il-forced-labor-s-korean-website-article-1.1005187

There's really just one source.
http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&num=8668
All those other news article seem to derive their information from there ultimately, though embellishing it with even more reminders of why North Korea should be considered Bad. dailynk itself uses an anonymous source. Given the political situation in NK that would make sense, but really, there's no way to tell whether this anonymous source is even real. How's that credible?

I'm not saying that North Korea isn't doing Bad Things, but at this point, North Korea is so demonized that everything bad written about them is instantly believed by many people, including plenty on Revleft. A result of decades of propaganda, with this being the latest batch.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpm8fFZae0YPAorsSXlfi0X96mu0ahd stC2gjMPcOkFhoYh1Dg

I indicated no support for North Korea in this thread or any other. Help me decide which one you are.

[Tjis]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpm8fFZae0YPAorsSXlfi0X96mu0ahd stC2gjMPcOkFhoYh1Dg

I indicated no support for North Korea. Help me decide which one you are.

Me?
I don't support North Korea. My post was not about supporting North Korea. It was about pointing out the role of the media in forming our opinions, when their 'facts' are shaky at best.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

Me?
I don't support North Korea. My post was not about supporting North Korea. It was about pointing out the role of the media in forming our opinions, when their 'facts' are shaky at best.

Not you. The OP has been going on about apologism.

[Zostrianos]

You and Shmuel Katz immediately dismissed the story as spurious; considering how North Korea is well known for this kind of stuff, rejecting this story off hand smells like apologetics to me. Kinda like "That's ridiculous, the glorious DPRK is a worker's paradise, no such thing would happen there, it's just propaganda"

[Zostrianos]

There's really just one source.
http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&num=8668
All those other news article seem to derive their information from there ultimately, though embellishing it with even more reminders of why North Korea should be considered Bad. dailynk itself uses an anonymous source. Given the political situation in NK that would make sense, but really, there's no way to tell whether this anonymous source is even real. How's that credible?


A bit of extra corroboration that supports this story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16344532), from the day of the funeral:

As Kim Jong-il's funeral cortege passed through the streets, anyone in the large crowds who did not seem to be sorry would have been asking for trouble.
You could sometimes see clearly that people were waiting for their cue to start weeping.
And twice at least the live television coverage accidentally showed policemen or other officials holding up cameras to get shots of the crowd standing close to them. It seems unlikely they were simply getting mementos of the occasion.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

You and Shmuel Katz immediately dismissed the story as spurious; considering how North Korea is well known for this kind of stuff, rejecting this story off hand smells like apologetics to me. Kinda like "That's ridiculous, the glorious DPRK is a worker's paradise, no such thing would happen there, it's just propaganda"

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBd7GYUixaDXTH3-iup_hMzBICCInqsiltC2fA-OyFqlhZzyLmCJ4CduSVUQ

[Bronco]

I'm certainly no Kim apologist but stories like this should be taken with a pinch of salt, it's not exactly out of character for both the South Korean and North Korean press to try and demonize the other country after all. While I'm not dismissing this is as a possibility, I really think that a lot of the grief that was shown by the citizens on Pyongyang was genuine, that's not to say the Kim's are good rulers or anything like that but people shouldn't understate the effect that personality cult's and propaganda can have on people. The Kims have such a tight grip on the country that it's entirely reasonable for many North Koreans to have really believed all the myths and legends propagated about their leaders by the State media, especially when many of them have no, or very little, access to the outside world. I don't doubt that those who suffer the most under the Kims out in the country may well not have shed any genuine tears for their leader, but those in Pyongyang live in the city that has been the focus for major investment, and it's one of the few places which is actually industrially built up and where the citizens have a far better standard of living than in many other parts of the country.

Showing genuine grief for leaders who have developed personality cults is hardly a new phenomenon either, there were mass suicides in Germany following the news of Hitler's death and while you could say it was down to a fear of what would happen to them after the war, it also speaks volumes about the level of attachment people had to Hitler and to the Nazi party. While I'm not completely dismissing these reports I am sceptical of them, and I don't see why a lot of the media has been so quick to attribute the scenes of grief to labour camps and the like. I mean, "not crying hard enough", it almost sounds farcical, there are more plausible reasons for their grief.

[Zostrianos]

There's no denial that a lot of the grief is genuine (North Koreans are completely isolated, they're constantly told that their country is the best society in the world, and that the Leader is their shining light, and so I'm sure many - even most of them - will feel sad), but it's not far fetched to say that they're sending people away for not showing enough emotion, considering all the other things we know about the country and its dictatorship, and how they execute people by firing squad for simply trying to leave the country.

[manic expression]

but it's not far fetched to say that they're sending people away for not showing enough emotion, considering all the other things we know about the country and its dictatorship,
There's the thing, though. Many of the "things we know" about the DPRK are quite false. On another thread it was proven that one of the rumors floating around about Kim Jong-Il was actually started on a blog as a joke for April Fool's Day. Another rumor was literally started by a CIA psychologist. It is not rare at all for some two-bit South Korean paper to print some ludicrous lie about the country and all of a sudden it's picked up by the US media as "facts" reported by "Korean experts".

As for the bears thing...go and find the article on the DPRK news site, it's not really what we're making it out to be. Basically, the article was about three people coming back from a memorial service, and encountering bears in the open in daytime, which is unusual for the time of year, and one of the witnesses just added the thought that it was as if the bears had been affected by the emotions of all the people they had seen. The news didn't report that idea as fact, it just put the eyewitness' comment in there at the end.

[Zostrianos]

It's not the first time the NK leadership creates myths around mysterious animal behaviour or weather patterns. When Kim Il Sung died, the media reported that flocks of birds had come down from heaven to take his body.

[Tjis]

It's not the first time the NK leadership creates myths around mysterious animal behaviour or weather patterns. When Kim Il Sung died, the media reported that flocks of birds had come down from heaven to take his body.

Do you have any credible source on that? Kim Il Sung is in a mausoleum in Pyongyang and I doubt this is a secret to North Koreans. So surely such a myth doesn't really exist.

[Zostrianos]

It's from a NK propaganda film released when Kim Il Sung died:

When the Great Marshal died, thousands of cranes descended from heaven to fetch him. The birds couldn't take him because they saw that North Koreans cried and screamed and pummeled their chests, pulled their hair and pounded the ground.

I didn't find the video, but here's (http://books.google.ca/books?id=_L09Kg8Hfk0C&pg=PA101&dq=%22kim+il+sung%22+death+cranes+birds&hl=en&sa=X&ei=C2QRT7ffBcfl0QHmv9WBAw&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22kim%20il%20sung%22%20death%20cranes%20birds&f=falsehttp://books.google.ca/books?id=_L09Kg8Hfk0C&pg=PA101&dq=%22kim+il+sung%22+death+cranes+birds&hl=en&sa=X&ei=C2QRT7ffBcfl0QHmv9WBAw&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22kim%20il%20sung%22%20death%20cranes%20birds&f=false) the book reference

[#FF0000]

I automatically assume whatever I hear about North Korea is a complete falsehood, whether what I hear is positive or negative.

Anyone who isn't literally brain dead should do the same.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

The North Korean government is responsible for most of these "myths" insofar as their justice system and the country in general lacks transparency. They have huge labor camps, but there are no objective observers to go in and see who these people are and why they are there. The regime insists it is because of "crimes against the worker's state" but one would be a fool to take the regime's explanation at face value. And because of the DPRK's intelligence assets, most sources saying anything sufficiently negative, if true, would be "anonymous" out of fear of getting punished, even abroad.

[roy]

Nobody's instantly believing anything, but why have any sort of knee-jerk reaction? This could be true as easily as it could be false. Anyway, if you don't believe that the DPRK propagandaists make up some whacky shit, they do guided tours of Pyongyang and its surrounds where you can hear all about the regime's greatness.

[Tim Cornelis]

The only source is a South Korean internet-based newspaper who are known to be staunch anti-North Korean stance, and their only source is anonymous. I read it in the newspaper this morning an it said "there is no way to verify this information".

Am I a North Korea apologist because I'm skeptical? I while ago I described North Korea as the worst place to live in the history of humanity (forgetting about Pol Pot), so no, I'm far from a Kim apologist.

[Krano]

The South Korea-based Daily NK newspaper (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&num=8668)
I automatically assume whatever I hear about North Korea is a complete falsehood, whether what I hear is positive or negative.

Anyone who isn't literally brain dead should do the same.
Good advice.

[GallowsBird]

I know it won't make any difference to you Kim apologists, but here's a few other links to the story from different sources:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/13/north-korea-punish-mourners-insincere-kim-jong-il_n_1204377.html?ref=world

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085636/North-Koreans-face-labour-camps-upset-death-Kim-Jong-il.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/n-korea-send-citizens-didn-t-mourn-kim-jong-il-forced-labor-s-korean-website-article-1.1005187

I'm not sure any of those are trustworthy at all.

The Daily Mail is famous in the UK for being an extreme rightist paper that even many Tories would be ashamed to read. That paper regularly prints nonsense about leftists. All leftists are apparently to blame for any problems in the Socialist countries. They don't just blame, say, Stalin (not that I agree with that anyway, for the most part) but they would, and do, blame Marx for anything that came after. They also conflate the left togehter. Anarchists are the same as Marxist-Leninists and Trotskyists, Librals are the same as Revolutionary Leftists et cetera.

[X5N]

Ah yes, this is all just capitalist western lies! North Korea is actually a thriving socialist utopia, where everyone is happy and free and has plenty to eat. *yawns*

North Korea is a fascist state with a red coat of paint. It deserves none of the defense from radical leftists that it's getting.

[Nox]

North Korea is a fascist state with a red coat of paint. It deserves none of the defense from radical leftists that it's getting.

I agree but it's so obvious that the story has very little, if any, truth to it.

[X5N]

I agree but it's so obvious that the story has very little, if any, truth to it.

It certainly does sound unbelievably absurd. Just going by the headline.

[Kadir Ateş]

Probably true, but you know, there are plenty of morons on this site who would like to support them if confronted by Western powers as a degenerated workers' state. Or they're just Stalinists.

[manic expression]

Probably true, but you know, there are plenty of morons on this site who would like to support them if confronted by Western powers as a degenerated workers' state. Or they're just people who oppose imperialism and don't fall for whatever the capitalist media says.
Fixed that for you.

By the way, the DPRK has been in a state of war with the US for about 60 years now, so you can drop the "if" part of that equation. It helps to keep abreast of those small details, I find.

[Omsk]

Or they're just Stalinists.


On the other hand there are the Troskyite provocatuers like you.

Oh sorry,you belong to the head in clouds herd.

[X5N]

On the other hand there are the Troskyite provocatuers like you.

Oh sorry,you belong to the head in clouds herd.

How is he part of the "head in the clouds herd," if I may ask?

[Omsk]

How is he part of the "head in the clouds herd," if I may ask?

He is a left-communist.

[X5N]

He is a left-communist.

I'm pretty sure left-communists don't have their "heads in the clouds" any more than Leninists, Stalinists, etc.

[kurr]

North Korea is a fascist state with a red coat of paint. It deserves none of the defense from radical leftists that it's getting.

It's always amusing when people use terms that they don't fully understand the meaning of. Like fascist in this case. No matter how much a country like North Korea puts your panties in a twist, this is just absurd. Leftists should be thinking like actual Leftists instead of goddamn children.

[kurr]

I'm pretty sure left-communists don't have their "heads in the clouds" any more than Leninists, Stalinists, etc.

Really? I've never seen a political tendency that thinks they can organize the working class from message boards and websites more so than Left Coms. At least Anarchists, Leninists (of all flavors), and Social Democrats actually participate in organizing.

[kurr]

http://www.asiapacificforum.org/show-detail.php?show_id=254 (http://www.asiapacificforum.org/show-detail.php?show_id=254I)
I would encourage everyone to check out the interview entitled: "Postmortem Analysis - US Media Coverage of North Korea" which talks about the racist depicition of the death of Kim Jong Il in Western Media.It's simply unbelievable how many "Leftists" are willing to buy into the racism and Western/White supremacy of the media on this subject.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Probably true, but you know, there are plenty of morons on this site who would like to support them if confronted by Western powers as a degenerated workers' state. Or they're just Stalinists.

Are you suggesting we should endorse an invasion of the DPRK? Why? We all know what the results would be - new rulers, oppression persisting, so what good would come of that? Now if perhaps there had been a socialist revolution somewhere, I guess it might be concievabel to be positive about a foreign intervention to spread the revolution to closed DPRK, but as it is... nonsense.


Ah yes, this is all just capitalist western lies! North Korea is actually a thriving socialist utopia, where everyone is happy and free and has plenty to eat. *yawns*

I must have missed wherein this thread anyone suggested such! What is with this nonsensical response, suddenly there's apologists everywhere, apparently, though there is no DPRK worship in this thread so far- even manic expression made a fairly good post.

Most news from DPRK are nonsensical and obviously silly, yes, but so are these news permeated by South Korean right-wing rags (and there doesn't seem to be much else in SK). Why is it that people are so fast to believe this load of rubbish? If it involves DPRK, it's probably not true whatever it is, well, apart from the fact that DPRK has nice housing blocks, which is an established fact.

[rednordman]

I honestly cannot believe that there are people on here who believe a rightwing South Korean newspapers accusation straight off. I mean, NK is one of the most secretive nations on earth right? Not even any communist parties across the globe truly know the deal there. So how on earth has a SK newspaper managed to get inside info like this, so quickly? My words are of common sense and not of an "apologist" (whatever that actually means to you).

Ps. I didnt really like KJI much and take a rather critical look on the regime since the fall fall of the USSR, so im not an "apologist". It just perplexes me how there are alot of people on the left who are more willing than even extreme right people to take as gospel any story that they think makes NK look like the most evil creation in history.

[X5N]

It's always amusing when people use terms that they don't fully understand the meaning of. Like fascist in this case. No matter how much a country like North Korea puts your panties in a twist, this is just absurd. Leftists should be thinking like actual Leftists instead of goddamn children.

Personality cults, severe restrictions on individual freedom, obsessive and militaristic nationalism, vilification of a common national scapegoat...

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...


Really? I've never seen a political tendency that thinks they can organize the working class from message boards and websites more so than Left Coms. At least Anarchists, Leninists (of all flavors), and Social Democrats actually participate in organizing.

I think that's a lot of people here, not just left communists.


I must have missed wherein this thread anyone suggested such! What is with this nonsensical response, suddenly there's apologists everywhere, apparently, though there is no DPRK worship in this thread so far- even manic expression made a fairly good post.

Most news from DPRK are nonsensical and obviously silly, yes, but so are these news permeated by South Korean right-wing rags (and there doesn't seem to be much else in SK). Why is it that people are so fast to believe this load of rubbish? If it involves DPRK, it's probably not true whatever it is, well, apart from the fact that DPRK has nice housing blocks, which is an established fact.

I was being facetious.

And I now realize how much this story is probably BS.

[Hiero]

Ah yes, this is all just capitalist western lies! North Korea is actually a thriving socialist utopia, where everyone is happy and free and has plenty to eat. *yawns*

No one is saying that. I have never seen someone actually call North Korea or any socialist nationa a "utopia".

[X5N]

No one is saying that. I have never seen someone actually call North Korea or any socialist nationa a "utopia".

I wasn't saying anyone was. I was poking fun at Best Korea apologism in general.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

http://troll.me/images/ancient-aliens-guy/sounds-legit-also-ancient-aliens-thumb.jpg

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Personality cults, severe restrictions on individual freedom, obsessive and militaristic nationalism, vilification of a common national scapegoat...

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

That is still not fascism though...

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Seems legit.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Iau3R3yMIr4/R_nbyo4rE9I/AAAAAAAAA5I/K334sx3bAkw/s400/gullibility+test.gif

+1

Sorry, cousin. I missed this. The title of the thread made me go immediately to a default "seems legit" pic without even reading the posts.

[Hiero]

I wasn't saying anyone was. I was poking fun at Best Korea apologism in general.

So you're purposefully misrepresenting people through false association.

[eyeheartlenin]

Although it might be propaganda, I wouldn't put it past the North Korean government to do something like this. I mean, did you see how the distinguised military officers seemed to just bawl their eyes out at the Dear Leader's death? It was faker than Pamela Anderson's jugs.

Wait a minute! Those babies aren't real? Bummer and a half! I used to worship those bad girls on Baywatch. Is there nothing one can believe in?

To resume the theme of this thread, I could believe that the North Korean "people's [sic] democratic [double sic] republic" would send people to prison for not grieving hard enough. That is, after all, a government that, at the very least, must bear some responsibility for the repeated famines that have plagued the northern half of the Korean peninsula and that probably serve the purpose of keeping the population in the north docile and frightened, which, in turn, helps assure that the privileged group in that society will remain in control. From what I have read, it seems that the degree of social control in North Korea must exceed what existed in the USSR after Stalin's death or even in East Germany. North Korea is truly an enduring nightmare, and its cheerleaders are not doing socialism any favors, I think.

[Cheung Mo]

If I ran this site, Kim and Ceausescu apologists would all be banished to Opposing Ideologies. Even liberals are better than apologists for pseudo-leftist megalomaniacs.

[eyeheartlenin]

If I ran this site, Kim and Ceausescu apologists would all be banished to Opposing Ideologies. Even liberals are better than apologists for pseudo-leftist megalomaniacs.

That's really true: Stalinism in power, with excrescences like what sounds like [North] Korean chauvinism (as previously described on revleft) and whatever ideology the late, unlamented N. Ceausescu was pushing, really presents opposing ideologies, considered from the standpoint of Marxism.

That is one reason I revere Latin American Trotskyists, like those from Argentina, where leftists have themselves lived under a ghastly dictatorship, and, consequently, those leftists really are opposed to repression, no matter what its source. Those leftists have a better grasp of reality (and Marxism) than comfortably-situated revleft enthusiasts (from industrialized countries) for North Korea.

[João Jerónimo]

If I ran this site, Kim and Ceausescu apologists would all be banished to Opposing Ideologies. Even liberals are better than apologists for pseudo-leftist megalomaniacs.

And long life to democracy, isn't it?

JJ

[João Jerónimo]

That is, after all, a government that, at the very least, must bear some responsibility for the repeated famines that have plagued the northern half of the Korean peninsula and that probably serve the purpose of keeping the population in the north docile and frightened, which, in turn, helps assure that the privileged group in that society will remain in control.
This is nonsense conspiracy theory. No bounds for defaming North Korea. It isn't enough the dubious "anonymous sources" that the imperialist press misquotes to satanize that country...
Some year in the future the imperialists invade the DPRK. That day, the same shortsighted people that now yell against the DPRK will themselves shout against war, and then that will make a powerful show, indeed (despite not avoiding war or death, but who cares? not certainly demagogues).
Those who don't want war must uncompromisingly oppose USA revanchism against not only the DPRK but all other countries. And that involves criticizing double-standards and fake-journalism. To oppose those things, we must take these claims with a big grain of salt.


, and its cheerleaders are not doing socialism any favors, I think.Chances are that you think bad. Have you heard of the "Taean Work System"?
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-9558.html
I don't think so...

JJ