Rape & Pedophilia - is one worse than the other?

[Yazman]

Just figured I'd make a topic here and see what y'all have to say about this. I got called a "disgusting human being" by a friend today because I disagreed with him that child molestation/pedophilia is "worse" than raping an adult.

His position as communicated to me seemed to be the following:

-Child molestation is "worse" (he means morally or ethically) because children "do not comprehend sex"
-Child molestation is "worse" because "adults can defend themselves"

My position is that a human being is still being violated and that I don't think it's fair to value one more than the other, not to mention the "adults can defend themselves" is essentially at least partly blaming the victim. I think both should be treated as crimes and that both are extremely fucked up, but I just don't think that one can really be perceived as "worse than the other."

What do you guys think?

[seventeethdecember2016]

I'd go with Child Molestation, mostly because it is completely immoral in many 21-century societies.
Modern Rape is probably influenced by the massive Pornography, around the world, and although this might be contested, there is a direct relationship between the two.


The relationship between particularly sexually violent images in the media and subsequent aggression...is much stronger statistically than the relationship between smoking and lung cancer. --Researcher Edward Donnerstein

National Victim Center claims that rape cases have increased 500% since 1960.

What this means is that rape has become culturally acceptable to a large population of pornography watchers.

Rape, at least among adults, should be treated as a psychological condition for those who are exposed to massive amounts of pornography.

[dodger]

Your friend Yazman responds as any human being to a child in a way that we have done for thousands of years. It is an animal response. Why else would a duck fly up at my face, to protect her young. Or a fully grown Doberman silently grimace as a stranger puppy sinks it's milk teeth repeatedly into his legs. To be protective to the young is natural. Any aberration is met with shock and hostility. How could he/they, or more shocking as in a recent paedophile ring case, how could she?. Might ask the question here, where a parent might sell or rent a child for sex. How could someone?

Rape of an adult is vile.I cannot add much to what you have already said in ending your post. Both should be treated as crime and neither crime can productively be described as worse than the other. Both are vile.

[#FF0000]

Modern Rape is probably influenced by the massive Pornography, around the world, and although this might be contested, there is a direct relationship between the two


I am going to have to see a source for this claim -- especially because the same can't be said for countries outside the United States.

But anyway, to Yazman's original post, I think you have it right when you say it's not fair to say one is worse than the other. Comparing and "ranking" things like that against each other is cynical to the extreme and I feel that it trivializes these things.

[GallowsBird]

Both are bad. I think raping a child is the most vile thing I can think of, however we should not dismiss the raping of an adult due to it being "not as bad". Both are horrendous and I find it slightly insensitive to make debates about what is worse and treat it like some morbid contest.

[El Chuncho]

I am going to have to see a source for this claim -- especially because the same can't be said for countries outside the United States.

And studies have shown that many countries have less rape and sexual violence than they did before their pornography industry really took off. Japan is a good example. I'll try to remember to post the studies and data later on.

[seventeethdecember2016]

I am going to have to see a source for this claim -- especially because the same can't be said for countries outside the United States.
Look at the sources I wrote right under that claim.



The relationship between particularly sexually violent images in the media and subsequent aggression...is much stronger statistically than the relationship between smoking and lung cancer. --Researcher Edward Donnerstein

[roy]

It seems insulting to say that 'one is worse than the other', as if down-playing the significance and trauma involved with either.

They're both absolutely heinous and the trauma suffered obviously varies from case to case, but to say rape is better than child-molestation is an over-simplification.

[#FF0000]

Look at the sources I wrote right under that claim.

--Researcher Edward Donnerstein

Oh, yeah I know but that's not really a source.


And studies have shown that many countries have less rape and sexual violence than they did before their pornography industry really took off. Japan is a good example. I'll try to remember to post the studies and data later on.

Given what I've actually heard from folks from Japan, Japan is an excellent example.

But you could point to all of Europe, too. As porn became more accessible, rates of sexual violence either dropped a little bit or stayed the same. There was really just no noticeable correlation.

but hey this is kinda off topic.

[Firebrand]

There is nothing that intrinsically makes rape of a child worse than rape of an adult. But I would say that some rape cases are worse than others. i.e. the ones that involve additional violence in addition to the rape e.g. beatings or even murder however that is only made worse by the addition of further crimes not by the act in itself being any worse.
All rape is completely abhorrent and it all comes from the same place. i.e. a desire to make yourself feel powerful by making others feel helpless and miserable. And I don't see why doing this to an adult is any better than doing it to a child.

[Ostrinski]

This shit again. Both are non consensual, both are exploitative and abusive, both cause emotional pain and confusion, both are unforgivable. How on earth is this qualitative? "Nah, so and so didn't get raped as bad as such and such did." Seriously, is this the logic that some people have? No offense to your friend, but fuck him.

[Yazman]

This shit again. Both are non consensual, both are exploitative and abusive, both cause emotional pain and confusion, both are unforgivable. How on earth is this qualitative? "Nah, so and so didn't get raped as bad as such and such did." Seriously, is this the logic that some people have? No offense to your friend, but fuck him.

I agree. He totally flamed me and trashed me over my opinion on the matter as well which just makes it even more absurd. WTF?

[danyboy27]

there are things in life that cant be measured.
Rape is rape, the consequences are always tragic regardless of who are the victims.

[danyboy27]

I'd go with Child Molestation, mostly because it is completely immoral in many 21-century societies.
Modern Rape is probably influenced by the massive Pornography, around the world, and although this might be contested, there is a direct relationship between the two.
--Researcher Edward Donnerstein

National Victim Center claims that rape cases have increased 500% since 1960.

What this means is that rape has become culturally acceptable to a large population of pornography watchers.

Rape, at least among adults, should be treated as a psychological condition for those who are exposed to massive amounts of pornography.
how do you explain the decrease in rape in canada and other industrialised countries then? Pornography is verry popular here has well.

[thriller]

Isn't child molestation also rape? If the child does not understand sex then they can't adequately communicate a valid yes or no to the attacker. Kind of one in the same in my mind.

[Drosophila]

Rape is totally depriving another person of their human rights, pedophilia is having sexual thoughts about a kid. Rape will always be worse.

[Zav]

Rape is obviously ethically worse than a sexual attraction to children. The latter doesn't harm anyone. Now if you mean child molestion, then it is generally rape and is the same as raping an adult. It's still traumatizing no matter the victim's age.

[thriller]

Rape is totally depriving another person of their human rights, pedophilia is having sexual thoughts about a kid. Rape will always be worse.

I always thought pedophilia was acting on those thoughts. Learned something new.

[NewLeft]

Rape is obviously ethically worse than a sexual attraction to children. The latter doesn't harm anyone. Now if you mean child molestion, then it is generally rape and is the same as raping an adult. It's still traumatizing no matter the victim's age.

It probably harms the pedophile themselves(?)

[Zav]

It probably harms the pedophile themselves(?)
How would being horny be harmful?

[seventeethdecember2016]

how do you explain the decrease in rape in canada and other industrialised countries then? Pornography is verry popular here has well.
There is a direct relationship between Pornography and rape. Pornography turns people into addicts, and addiction will likely turn into rape.
I will admit that I've had some problems finding a reasonable source to prove this, but out of logic I will continue to keep believing in that.

[Princess Luna]

There is a direct relationship between Pornography and rape. Pornography turns people into addicts, and addiction will likely turn into rape.
I will admit that I've had some problems finding a reasonable source to prove this, but out of logic I will continue to keep believing in that.
Porn is not addicting, I have been watching since I was 13 and I am not in anyway addicted, in fact a recent study showed 75% of males between the ages 18-30 have visted a pornagraphific website in the last month (and those are only the ones willing to admit it) and yet the idea that 80%< of the male population is addicted to pornography is absurd. Further more rape and normal sexual intercourse are entirely different acts, there is no reason why someone would become so obsessed with your average porn videos that he try to renact them though rape, if anything he would just hire a prostitute.

[danyboy27]

There is a direct relationship between Pornography and rape. Pornography turns people into addicts, and addiction will likely turn into rape.
I will admit that I've had some problems finding a reasonable source to prove this, but out of logic I will continue to keep believing in that.

Pornography exist since human are capable of writting and drawing.
Book depicting explicit sexual act including rape are decades older than movies, drawing depicting explicit sexual acts are even older than that.

One of the main reason why the stats about sexual harassement and rape skyrocketed in the 60s and 80s was beccause there where no stats on it prior to that, and it was not accepted to speak out. After the sexual revolution women started to talk more openly about it.

Rape was extremely common in antiquity and during the victorian era, far more common than it is right now. We dont have much stats about it, but the cultural acceptation of it was fairly common.

[Per Levy]

There is a direct relationship between Pornography and rape. Pornography turns people into addicts, and addiction will likely turn into rape.

you know you cant prove this at all, its just what you (want)belive.


I will admit that I've had some problems finding a reasonable source to prove thisthats because there isn any?


but out of logic I will continue to keep believing in that.

yeah "logic" lets just say that your logic is kinda faulty, i mean by your "logic" every person that has a sexual relationship will likely go out and rape someone because they'll get addicted to sex and stuff. and as you say yourself you belive in this but cant prove it.

[thriller]

yeah "logic" lets just say that your logic is kinda faulty, i mean by your "logic" every person that has a sexual relationship will likely go out and rape someone because they'll get addicted to sex and stuff. and as you say yourself you belive in this but cant prove it.

This.

[Nox]

It depends on the definition given for those terms.

Paedphilia and Rape are both very vague terms imo.

[PhoenixAsh]

there has been no conclusive research done into the effects of pornography on crime.

[NewLeft]

How would being horny be harmful?

Not just simply being horny, but having unwanted sexual thoughts.

[Brosip Tito]

I don't think there is a "worse" between the two

The idea is whether a prepubescent child can consent to sex. Their bodies and minds are unprepared for the activity, and therefore if they do not understand they cannot consent.

The absence of consent is rape.

[seventeethdecember2016]

My whole claim has been that Pornography has been a significant catalyst for rape. Not all rape is caused by Pornographic watchers, obviously, however there is a direct relationship between the two and I will find evidence to prove so.

I disregard statistics about rape because those are influenced by public policies, and not physiological conditions. It is hard to find proof of this, since no one will admit that they are porn addicts and/or rapists.

I made somewhat of an attempt to find evidence, but the sources I used mostly used opinions from credible groups or people.


Exposure to pornography is routine among children and young people, with a range of notable and often troubling effects. Particularly among younger children, exposure to pornography may be disturbing or upsetting. Exposure to pornography helps to sustain young people’s adherence to sexist and unhealthy notions of sex and relationships. And, especially among boys and young men who are frequent consumers of pornography, including of more violent materials, consumption intensifies attitudes supportive of sexual coercion and increases their likelihood of perpetrating assault. While children and young people are sexual beings and deserve age-appropriate materials on sex and sexuality, pornography is a poor, and indeed dangerous, sex educator.Flood, M.Child Abuse Review 2009 18 (6): 384–400, ePublished November 2, 2009


substantial exposure to sexually violent materials . . . bears a causal relationship to antisocial acts of sexual violence.United States' Attorney General's Commission(1986)










Porn is not addicting, I have been watching since I was 13 and I am not in anyway addicted
You claim your not addicted, yet you've been watching it from age 13 until now.


yeah "logic" lets just say that your logic is kinda faulty, i mean by your "logic" every person that has a sexual relationship will likely go out and rape someone because they'll get addicted to sex and stuff. and as you say yourself you belive in this but cant prove it.I can't prove god isn't real, yet logic compels me not to believe in him.

[Per Levy]

You claim your not addicted, yet you've been watching it from age 13 until now.

and your point is? i watch cartoons since i was little kid, and i still watch cartoons, im i an addict? no i just enjoy what i watch thats all.


I can't prove god isn't real, yet logic compels me not to believe in him.

how is a strawman argument a response to my statement?


substantial exposure to sexually violent materials . . . bears a causal relationship to antisocial acts of sexual violence. United States' Attorney General's Commission(1986)

on wich facts does this statement stands on? i mean you say yourself that you cannot find anything that proves your belives and nowadays it should be much easier to finde something like that then 25 years ago. so all i can get from this statement is that also a lot of other people belive that porn and rape have a significant connection.

[seventeethdecember2016]

and your point is? i watch cartoons since i was little kid, and i still watch cartoons, im i an addict? no i just enjoy what i watch thats all.
I can't prove whether or not your an addict, that's up to you. So I will just stop this are of the argument.
You should know that just because your not an addict, doesn't mean that another person isn't. There are serious repercussions to even small increments of porn consumption, so I'd take care of myself if I frequently watched pornography.




how is a strawman argument a response to my statement?
The god argument was just an example, and it didn't need your take on it.


so all i can get from this statement is that also a lot of other people belive that porn and rape have a significant connection.
I request that you reread this part of my last argument.



I disregard statistics about rape because those are influenced by public policies, and not physiological conditions. It is hard to find proof of this, since no one will admit that they are porn addicts and/or rapists.

Please know that it isn't easy to find proof of this, and the only evidence I'd personally believe is a study by a psychologist.
To say that pornography doesn't affect the brain's sexual desires is completely ridiculous.
After ejaculation, the brain releases something called Dopamine. Dopamine is what gives you that "good" feeling, and it is also what gives you the high feeling after using drugs(drugs give higher increments of Dopamine). Dopamine is called the brain's reward, and I personally believe we have it due to evolution. Those who had that "good" feeling had more sex than those who didn't(my assumption). I haven't checked if that assumption is true, but I will keep assuming.
If Dopamine can cause people to be addicted to drugs, it can also get people to be addicted to porn and thus sex.

[Franz Fanonipants]

child molestation is rape, since children cannot by definition ever consent to sexual activity.

[Per Levy]

After ejaculation, the brain releases something called Dopamine. Dopamine is what gives you that "good" feeling, and it is also what gives you the high feeling after using drugs(drugs give higher increments of Dopamine). Dopamine is called the brain's reward, and I personally believe we have it due to evolution. Those who had that "good" feeling had more sex than those who didn't(my assumption). I haven't checked if that assumption is true, but I will keep assuming.
If Dopamine can cause people to be addicted to drugs, it can also get people to be addicted to porn and thus sex.

well lets say that what you say here is all true, then porn is not the problem but the orgasm that is nessesarry to get this dopamine, if i watch porn 24/7 and dont masturbate to it i cant get addicted, while if i do masturbate(and use my fantasy) or have sex i can get addicted. that would mean that sex/masturbation + orgasm is the problem and not porn. sorry to say but this is pretty redicilous, dont you think?

[El Chuncho]

Paedphilia and Rape are both very vague terms imo.

Vague? Rape means to sexually violate another person, and paedophilia means ''sexual attraction to children''. Seems pretty crystal clear ''imo''.

:rolleyes:

[Franz Fanonipants]

Vague? Rape means to sexually violate another person, and paedophilia means ''sexual attraction to children''. Seems pretty crystal clear ''imo''.

:rolleyes:

anarchists <3 chimos

[Shotgun Opera]

National Victim Center claims that rape cases have increased 500% since 1960.
There have also been massive strides made in making rape more acceptable to report since 1960. There was a time when that sort of thing would not have been discussed, much less taken seriously. Rape was something a woman did not admit to.


Rape, at least among adults, should be treated as a psychological condition for those who are exposed to massive amounts of pornography
The fact that many adults are exposed to a great deal of pornography without resorting to rape suggests there is a lack of a causal effect.

[KR]

Nothing wrong with pedophilia, which is simply a mental diesease, but raping children is just as bad as raping adults.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Nothing wrong with pedophilia, which is simply a mental diesease, but raping children is just as bad as raping adults.

pedophilia is rape. gtfo

[28350]

pedophilia is rape. gtfo

You can't just force a word to mean something it doesn't.

[Franz Fanonipants]

You can't just force a word to mean something it doesn't.

what the shit is this

children cannot ever legally consent to sex. therefore any pedophilia that goes beyond thought is legally rape. end of discussion.

as for "legal rights" of a pedophile or whatever is going to be the next bullshit libertarian canard that you type, pedophilia is about as morally or legally defensible as serial murder. i don't think a serial killer should have a special court of set of circumstances for their murders, i don't think pedophiles should get special treatment as rapists.

[Invader Zim]

You can't just force a word to mean something it doesn't.


Well, actually, all penetrative sexual acts between an adult and a child are indeed rape because a child is incapable of providing informed consent.


however there is a direct relationship between the two and I will find evidence to prove so.

If there is a causal link then there must be a correlation between insidents of rape and increasing access to pornography. Yet over the last two decades the number of insidents of rape has generally decreased (some years more some less obviously) from about 105,000 per year in 1990 to less than 85,000 in 2010. While easy access to pornography, via the internet, has sky rocketed over that same period.

You don't need to be a researcher to see that.

[28350]

children cannot ever legally consent to sex. I don't care what the law says, and the state is also a pretty shitty arbiter of what defines consent and what is an appropriate sexual relationship. I do however think that prepubescent children are simply not physiologically/mentally/emotionally developed enough to have sex with adults.


therefore any pedophilia that goes beyond thought is legally rape
pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder, not an action.
and again, the legality doesn't matter. Rape is rape.



Well, actually, all penetrative sexual acts between an adult and a child are indeed rape because a child is incapable of providing informed consent.
I never claimed otherwise, I just said pedophilia is not the same thing as "sexual acts between an adult and a child"

[Franz Fanonipants]

I don't care what the law says, and the state is also a pretty shitty arbiter of what defines consent and what is an appropriate sexual relationship. I do however think that prepubescent children are simply not physiologically/mentally/emotionally developed enough to have sex with adults.

die in a fire chimo apologist

[KR]

pedophilia is rape. gtfo
You really are a fucking retard.

[dodger]

I have never heard of Paedophilia described as mental illness..Perhaps somebody who works in the mental health field might shed light on the matter for me. A definitive answer. Thanks.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I have never heard of Paedophilia described as mental illness..Perhaps somebody who works in the mental health field might shed light on the matter for me. A definitive answer. Thanks.

im pretty sure it is a pathology, but again, since it is a pathology that results in rape i don't see that it should be prosecuted any differently than rape. we don't give serial killers any special legal category.

[Franz Fanonipants]

You really are a fucking retard.

boo hoo deployment of ableist language to worship and protect child molestors

[28350]

im pretty sure it is a pathology, but again, since it is a pathology that results in rape i don't see that it should be prosecuted any differently than rape.

I'm pretty sure paranoid schizophrenia is a pathology, but again, since it is a pathology that results in murder I don't see how that should be prosecuted any differently than murder.

[Le Libérer]

Ya know these kinds of threads always degenerate into petty name calling and just overall ugliness.

So I am going to do us all a favor and take it out before it gets to deep.

Thread closed. Lets go talk about rainbows and unicorns or something.