the possibility of change

[MotherCossack]

i sometimes wonder...and was wondering if anyone else wonders the same wonder...
who wonders if we will ever see a proper revolution in the western world (?) in our lifetime?

or are we aving a larf and living in cloud cuckoo land?

and if so... d'you think we might at least see a gradual gravitation towards a more philanthropic approach from those running the show?

[ColonelCossack]

Sorry, mum, but philanthropism in the sense of "kindly, generous, Dickensian" capitalists is not that good.

[MotherCossack]

what ! so you dont like the ragged trousered philanthropist? you used to!

[ColonelCossack]

The title of that book is saying that the workers are giving money to capitalists for no good reason, or something. Also you failed at the poll options. And if you vote for option 3 youre a reformist.

(I'm enjoying myself. new ways to argue! :D)

[MotherCossack]

by philanthropic i meant in the broader sense, like less selfish, money grabbing, fat cat , no services, fuck the needy at the bottom of the pile.
a more caring less money-centred, nay money-worshipping.

apparently according to youngblood C, i am now very cute!
must be because i made a total pigsear of my poll, and it makes no sense whatsoever!!!

i feel like a total pratt!!
how do i cancel the fucking poll, so i can do it again or at least salvage a modicum of dignity and dye in relative harmony

[hatzel]

And if you vote for option 3 youre a reformist.

I'm not sure such strong words are needed. The third option could equally imply gradualism, with revolution a prolonged period as opposed to a sudden moment. Dual power, building the new society in the shell of the old, non-capitalistic social relationships flourishing and spreading in the cracks of capitalism etc. All this is possible without appealing to the existing government for reforms aimed at bringing about the 'ideal' society (this being the definition of reformism), instead through the gradual construction of new social relationships totally beyond the auspices of the state.

[ColonelCossack]

by philanthropic i meant in the broader sense, like less selfish, money grabbing, fat cat , no services, fuck the needy at the bottom of the pile.
a more caring less money-centred, nay money-worshipping.

apparently according to youngblood C, i am now very cute!
must be because i made a total pigsear of my poll, and it makes no sense whatsoever!!!

i feel like a total pratt!!
how do i cancel the fucking poll, so i can do it again or at least salvage a modicum of dignity and dye in relative harmony

You advocated philanthropy from those running the show, which I assume means Capitalists. However, if they were to start exibiting this behaviour, it wouldn't really have any long term difference because the changes would still exist and work around the capitalists own plans and motives, rather than what is better for society. No amount of socialism can be brought about by capitalists giving a bit of their money away- one reason is that it would be against their (immediate) interests to do so. For socialism, you need active revolution from the bottom up, not forced change from the top. Or are you a great-man theorist, and a reformist?


lol we're having this argument on revleft but we're in the same room.

[MotherCossack]

please god or god of the revleft, or thy glorious wonderfulness in side my computer...
have pity on your loyal and misguided fool that is mother cossack and eliminate her first poll for it is inferior and nonsensical in almost every way.
that she might find strength in thy glory and do a rewrite when she is able.!!

[ColonelCossack]

I'm not sure such strong words are needed. The third option could equally imply gradualism, with revolution a prolonged period as opposed to a sudden moment. Dual power, building the new society in the shell of the old, non-capitalistic social relationships flourishing and spreading in the cracks of capitalism etc. All this is possible without appealing to the existing government for reforms aimed at bringing about the 'ideal' society (this being the definition of reformism), instead through the gradual construction of new social relationships totally beyond the auspices of the state.

I suppose so; a bit like the transition between feudalism and capitalism, no? But in the OP she referred to philanthropy on the part of the capitalists, to paraphrase.

[ColonelCossack]

please god or god of the revleft, or thy glorious wonderfulness in side my computer...
have pity on your loyal and misguided fool that is mother cossack and eliminate her first poll for it is inferior and nonsensical in almost every way.
that she might find strength in thy glory and do a rewrite when she is able.!!

So now she's a fundie preacher as well as a reformist great-man-historical-theorist. Is that it?

[MotherCossack]

i wasnt saying i thought it would be good for the ruling arses to go all mr peabody on us.... just asking if you lot thought it might happen... you cheeky little bleeder. no offense i am refering to little man cossack over there at well past his nap time.

[ColonelCossack]

i wasnt saying i thought it would be good for the ruling arses to go all mr peabody on us.... just asking if you lot thought it might happen... you cheeky little bleeder.

I don't think they will. As the capitalist economy declines, capitalism will get ever more authoritarian, if anything, because, of course, "fascism is capitalism in decline".

And so now you're a flame-baiter troll as well as a fundie preacher reformist great-man-historical-theorist! You pesky Trotskyite. :D

lol jk mum

[MotherCossack]

at last the kernal has retired....and now...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[ColonelCossack]

at last the kernal has retired....and now...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

quiet you

[VirgJans12]

62.50% + 62.50% + 12.50% + 25% = 162.50%. Silly poll, this isn't Russia.

[ColonelCossack]

Silly poll.

I concur with this point

[crust_cheese]

Voted 3. We're not seeing a "revolution" of any kind any time soon.
The people are not aware and not willing enough... yet, I hope.

[danyboy27]

Change is not only possible, it happen all the time. Sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worst.

[Red Rebel]

Change is impossible until it happens, then it is inevitable. The Occupy movement shocked a lot of activists; however, looking at the reasons behind it's existance it isn't hard to see why a mass move errupted protesting capitalism.

Only other thing I'd add is that capitalism constantly has to (and does) revolutionize itself. Although not sure if that is the kind of "change" the poll was directed at. :p

[Lanky Wanker]

Mother and son on RevLeft: hell yeah, commie families ftw. :thumbup1:

To the poll/question: I voted for #2, but I don't think it will necessarily happen within the next 50 years. Your average person is too stupid to even understand the situation we (they) are in, let alone smart enough to know what to do about it or even want to do anything about it. If there is a revolution within the next 50 years, we'lll probably have to somehow just disguise it as good ol' capitalism minus the poverty, and ban the use of any words relating to socialism. We're about half a century on from the red scare and people still stare at us for wearing hammer & sickle t-shirts, so I don't know how much will change within the next 50 years. Obviously we aren't in the same era/situation, but still.

[NewLeft]

A radical leftist change in the western world is a little hopeful..

[eyeheartlenin]

There are constantly new popular and workers' struggles breaking out in Latin America, and I have thought for years now that the next big break through (the overthrow of bourgeois rule in some country) would occur there, since that is one region where poor and working class people have no choice but to fight hard for their survival and for their families. I think it is useful for revolutionaries to learn enough Spanish or Portuguese to be able to follow events in Latin America and, even better, to be able to communicate with revolutionaries in that region, in the interests of solidarity. I try to keep some translated articles about grass-roots struggles in Latin America on my revleft blog.