CIA spy sentenced to death in Iran......

[RadioRaheem84]

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-sentences-american-man-death-cia-case-082241130.html

28 year old US Marine sentenced to death for spying on Iran.

If tensions were already bad!

[Renegade Saint]

Former US military translator, just "visiting his grandmother" in Iran. :rolleyes:

Not that I'm siding with the Islamic Republic, but he hypocrisy by the US is hilarious.


The U.S. government has called on Iranian authorities to grant Swiss diplomats access to him in prison.

Just like they do at Gitmo, amirite?

[Ostrinski]

Here, here!

Nah, but if you're a spy then this comes with the job. Don't feel sorry for him or his family.

[ВАЛТЕР]

It's in the job description, if you get caught, chances are you're fucked. Well maybe not in those exact words.

Unless you can be traded for some other assets, chances are you're getting strung up without a second thought.

[Zealot]

And good riddance. Get the fuck out of Iran.

[Drosophila]

One terrorist organization killing a member of another terrorist organization.

[piet11111]

Does this mean the CIA gets to keep his last paycheck ? :laugh:

[Misanthrope]

Does this mean the CIA gets to keep his last paycheck ? :laugh:

I'd imagine that it would go to his family that he left behind, perhaps a wife and child.

But yes, capital punishment is hilarious...

[Obs]

I'd imagine that it would go to his family that he left behind, perhaps a wife and child.

But yes, capital punishment is hilarious...
You're right, let's all feel sorry for this extremely well-paid imperialist agent.

[Princess Luna]

there is always a chance he is actually innocent

[Obs]

there is always a chance he is actually innocent
There's always a chance it's completely coincidental that the US has a military presence surrounding Iran.

[o well this is ok I guess]

there is always a chance he is actually innocent I dunno man
It's generally bad voodoo to visit your iranian grandmother when your military is fixing to invade Iran.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

Here, here!

Nah, but if you're a spy then this comes with the job. Don't feel sorry for him or his family.

Lol the bit about his family was so harsh I had to laugh.:laugh:

[Ostrinski]

Lol the bit about his family was so harsh I had to laugh.:laugh:lol well, unless they were against him being a spy in the first place.

[Invader Zim]

lol well, unless they were against him being a spy in the first place.

Assuming, of course, that CIA agents tell their families what they do for a living, which is doubtful.

I happen to have met a number of individuals who worked for the British intelligence community and they never told their families what they did, just "work for the government". These were WW2 people, but I don't imagine that it has changed all that much.

[Ocean Seal]

The US killed 1.5 million people in Iraq. Are they seriously complaining because the Iranians are making it difficult for them to ravage their lands? I mean I like most people here am not a huge fan of Iran, but I think that the Americans are the only people arrogant enough to demand this kind of shit.

[X5N]

Capital punishment is barbaric and stupid. Especially for things like espionage, "treason," and whatnot, which are nothing more than fancy ways of saying "crimes against the state."

I'm not defending the guy, but I think the way some people are treating this here is pretty despicable.

[freakazoid]

There is always the chance that he is innocent. But who gives shit? After all, he is an American, former marine, overpaid apparently, and its not like the prisoners at Gitmo got good treatment so fuck this guy and his family. :rolleyes: Some of you people are just fucking disgusting. Good thing it doesn't say he is also a Christian.

[pastradamus]

Capital punishment is barbaric and stupid. Especially for things like espionage, "treason," and whatnot, which are nothing more than fancy ways of saying "crimes against the state."

I'm not defending the guy, but I think the way some people are treating this here is pretty despicable.

Thank fuck someone here has the good sense to notice the non-paritcular of "death sentence" hanging above this mans head.

Seriously, a bunch of people jumped on the anti-US bandwagon and completely forgot what was going to happen this guy. Absolute disaster that this man should be used as a political weapon like this. In my honest opinion he reeks of spy but its not like that Iranian court would ever give him a fair trial.

[pastradamus]

And good riddance. Get the fuck out of Iran.

So now you defend one of the most repressive, sadistic and disgraceful regimes in the world?

Iran is absolutely what every socialist in the world should fight against - not support. Even US imperialism would struggle to be on an even keel with those tyrants.

[Pretty Flaco]

Yes! Bring his death! Because situations which heighten tensions between two hostile powers are great!


In its ruling, a branch of Tehran Revolutionary Court described Hekmati as a mohareb, an Islamic term that means a fighter against God, and a mofsed, or one who spreads corruption on earth. Both terms appear frequently in Iranian court rulings.

How can you deny these allegations?

[RadioRaheem84]

A CIA agent of imperialism is tried in a kangaroo Iranian court.

The US will use this to their advantage. .

[Ostrinski]

Assuming, of course, that CIA agents tell their families what they do for a living, which is doubtful.

I happen to have met a number of individuals who worked for the British intelligence community and they never told their families what they did, just "work for the government". These were WW2 people, but I don't imagine that it has changed all that much.You're right, naive comment on my side, my grandfather's friend was in the air force and never talked about his time in the service or anything like that unless he was drunk.

[Renegade Saint]

Thank fuck someone here has the good sense to notice the non-paritcular of "death sentence" hanging above this mans head.

Seriously, a bunch of people jumped on the anti-US bandwagon and completely forgot what was going to happen this guy. Absolute disaster that this man should be used as a political weapon like this. In my honest opinion he reeks of spy but its not like that Iranian court would ever give him a fair trial.
What do you think the chances are that his sentence will be commuted to 27 years or something? Does Iran usually execute American spies?

It seems like it would needlessly exacerbate tensions to kill him.

[Aspiring Humanist]

Yeah hes probably a spy, yeah he's an imperialist pig etc. etc.
But that does not qualify anyone for a death sentence. Frightening that supposed leftists would be so passive towards a living breathing human being

[Prometeo liberado]

Capital punishment is barbaric and stupid. Especially for things like espionage, "treason," and whatnot, which are nothing more than fancy ways of saying "crimes against the state."

I'm not defending the guy, but I think the way some people are treating this here is pretty despicable.

I have to say that whatever happens to this guy can't be seen as a surprise, and I certainly dont agree with the celebration. Which one of you would be the first to volunteer to fire the shot or pull the lever? We understand the sentence of death because Iran is at the brink of a war it did not provoke. We as socialist abhor the extermination of any life but understand its sometimes ugly necessity. We do not celebrate this ugliness because our ideas are better than our enemies. We are better than the idiot cops that high five each other after a good beat down. This guy is a bit player who knew what he was doing and that death comes with job, but celebrating his death doesn't become us.:confused:

[Renegade Saint]

Yeah hes probably a spy, yeah he's an imperialist pig etc. etc.
But that does not qualify anyone for a death sentence. Frightening that supposed leftists would be so passive towards a living breathing human being
Lots of people on here are quite eager to bring back the Red Terror unfortunately.

[Zealot]

So now you defend one of the most repressive, sadistic and disgraceful regimes in the world?

Iran is absolutely what every socialist in the world should fight against - not support. Even US imperialism would struggle to be on an even keel with those tyrants.

Where did I say that I supported them? Rofl.

[Sendo]

Yes! Bring his death! Because situations which heighten tensions between two hostile powers are great!

You cannot talk like they are two powers in the same league at all. Iran's only hope to avoid annihilation is home turf advantage, domestic resistance in the USA, the support of the world community, and America's own weakness from overextending itself (not likely).

This isn't Austo-Hungary and France in 1914. This isn't even Cuba/USSR and the USA in 1962. This is the USA and Iran in 2011.

[CommieTroll]

It's troubling that any leftist would celebrate the death of anyone, that includes Fascists and Capitalists. If the Iranian government do execute him so be it but all it will achieve is a strain on relations between the US and Iran and drive oil prices up even further which effects all of us. It's confusing that Iran would throw away that kind of leverage against the west.

[manic expression]

So imperialism surrounds Iran (literally, look at a map (http://campaigniran.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/usbases1.jpg)), constantly rattles the sabre, invades Iranian airspace, imposes sanctions that hurt Iranian workers, was responsible not only for the horrific Iraq-Iran War but also other bombings thrown in...

...but Iran's the bad guy here...

Look, I don't like the death penalty, but it's the height of hypocrisy to try to condemn this as the US is putting teenagers to death. Anyway, I would imagine that the sentence might be changed if Iran and the US can come to some sort of agreement about a number of issues (and in a way I think that just might be the best outcome since it would help the Iranian people the most)...but it's hard to say.

Oh, and I wonder if the same contempt will be shown the next time the Spanish anarchists are mentioned. Somehow I doubt it.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Why the fuck was that idiot in Iran????? Its only the most hostile country toward the us right now. That guy is a fucking idiot, he could easily have sent his grandmother money to go to another country to meet him.


Which is why I say iran is doing the right thing. Make an example. Don't know what that would do, but it would be interesting.

[Obs]

Thank fuck someone here has the good sense to notice the non-paritcular of "death sentence" hanging above this mans head.

Seriously, a bunch of people jumped on the anti-US bandwagon and completely forgot what was going to happen this guy. Absolute disaster that this man should be used as a political weapon like this. In my honest opinion he reeks of spy but its not like that Iranian court would ever give him a fair trial.
I hate to be a tough guy here, but seriously? You think it's a disaster that a spy is being used as a political weapon? That's kind of his career choice. He knew what he was getting into, fucked up, and is now paying the price. This is what happens when two bourgeois states are up against one another, people die. I'd rather have it be fucks like this than young soldiers whose only crime is trying to pay the bills.

[Zealot]

AWWW oil prices will go up and it will strain relations with the US ergo we should feel sorry for this guy? That's cute guys.

Please tell me what should be done with CIA scum if not the death penalty? How the hell do you rehabilitate a spy and convince him not to spread the information he gathered? I legitimately want to know, I think this would make a good debate.

[manic expression]

Invitat culpam qui peccatum praeterit

Pardon one offense and you encourage the commission of many.

[piet11111]

If this guy is a spy and he probably is he knew he would be sent to the most dangerous place and aware of the risks he took.

He took this risk and as such i have no need to feel sorry for him that it blew up in his face.

And considering the recent assassinations of scientists and officials along with the explosions at key facility's i can see why they go for the death penalty.

We all know how much the USA likes to kill with impunity but the Iranians at least gave this guy a court hearing thats more then the USA ever did for Anwar al-Awlaki.

[Rowan Duffy]

Even US imperialism would struggle to be on an even keel with those tyrants.

The continued existence of an authoritarian regime in Iran is at least partly the fault of US imperialism. The constant pressure and threat of war helps to reinforce nationalism and defensist postures. At the same time, any progressive group working in Iran is plagued with the problem that they can easily be labelled as working in cooperation with American agents, at least partly because American agents are always trying to work with whatever progressive group comes into existence!

As an example of how this can affect a movement, in Poland, solidarnosc was given material support by the western powers and the most right wing members of the group were elevated because of their support from the west. The security state can twist these movements through its involvement.

The best thing for the Iranian people is for the US to back off so the Iranian people have a better chance of reform or revolution of their current theocratic regime. For this reason socialists should support pressuring their governments into removing spies, decreasing pressure and allowing trade.

As per capital punishment of spies, we can only imagine how an Iranian spy in the US, after a period of loud proclamations by Iran of intentional sabotage, would be treated. It certainly wouldn't be a cake walk. However, in terms of increasing legitimacy and decreasing the legitimacy of the US, it does not seem to me to be a very politic move. For propaganda value it would have been much more sensible to water-board him which would naturally bring to the fore the hypocrisy of the west.

[danyboy27]

I think killing the guy would be a terrible mistake beccause:

1.the guy might be innocent.
There are dumbasses everywhere, even in the military.
Its entierely possible the guy was really thinking he could visit relatives or just travel there for fun and get away with it. Why would the CIA would send such an obvious spy when they can rely on trained civilian agents to do the job more discretely?


2. he is worth more alive than dead for several political and military reasons.
He could be Exchanged, used for propaganda purposes or released at a convenient time has a ''show of goodwill''.

It dosnt matter if someone support the iranian state or not, killing the guy is just stupid and will achieve nothing.

[Tim Cornelis]

The US killed 1.5 million people in Iraq.

No they didn't. People keep saying that but it's completely disohent to argue this for two reasons:

1. The research institute that said 1,5 million people died used wrong methodology and this number is discredited

2. It's the number of casualties in the Iraq war, the majority of deaths was due to sectarian violence of Iraqi insurgents--the US did not kill these people.

[Tim Cornelis]

If this guy is a spy and he probably is he knew he would be sent to the most dangerous place and aware of the risks he took.

He took this risk and as such i have no need to feel sorry for him that it blew up in his face.

This is such ridiculous logic, I mean communist activities in a fascist country are illegal and punishable by death, so when you resist the fascist regime you will be put to death. You know what the risks are, so then... if a communist was caught would you respond "well, he knew the risk, so whatever".

It's a human life we are talking about here. He did absolutely nothing deserving of death.


And considering the recent assassinations of scientists and officials along with the explosions at key facility's i can see why they go for the death penalty.

We all know how much the USA likes to kill with impunity but the Iranians at least gave this guy a court hearing thats more then the USA ever did for Anwar al-Awlaki.

Oh so now it's okay to convict people of crimes they did not do. "Oh, this guy is American and Americans like to kill people, so we might as well kill him before he kills us!" Makes perfect sense, don't it?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Yes, the good state of Iran is showing its credentials as a progressive, worker-orientated force for good by bringing on the death of the evil imperialists. God save Iran, god save Ahmedinajad, god save Ayatollah Khomeini. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, it's difficult to have an opinion on this story. It's difficult (well, impossible) to know whether this guy is a spy or not. The death sentence is not something that should be supported, though.

[manic expression]

1. The research institute that said 1,5 million people died used wrong methodology and this number is discredited
Prove it.


2. It's the number of casualties in the Iraq war, the majority of deaths was due to sectarian violence of Iraqi insurgents--the US did not kill these people.a.) Prove it; b.) the US still caused that instability and as the presiding occupier bears responsibility.


This is such ridiculous logic, I mean communist activities in a fascist country are illegal and punishable by death, so when you resist the fascist regime you will be put to death. You know what the risks are, so then... if a communist was caught would you respond "well, he knew the risk, so whatever".False analogy. Trying to spy on a country while in the pay of US imperialism is nothing like struggling against an oppressor of one's own country.

PS, comparing a US spy to groups of people who were desperately trying to stop a genocide in progress is not only wrong, it's utterly disrespectful to the movement itself. I mean really...


It's a human life we are talking about here. He did absolutely nothing deserving of death.And of course the human life of the Iranian people under the threat of imperialism can go jump in a lake because....

Every country has the right and indeed the responsibility to defend itself from espionage and sabotage of aggressors. Do you deny this?


Oh so now it's okay to convict people of crimes they did not do. "Oh, this guy is American and Americans like to kill people, so we might as well kill him before he kills us!" Makes perfect sense, don't it?Except that wasn't the argument made at all.

[piet11111]

It's a human life we are talking about here. He did absolutely nothing deserving of death.

We don't know that but we do know that the guy worked as a military translator and apparently spend 4 months in iran to visit his grandmother.

An ethnic persian man that speaks the language would be the ideal agent to have there and 4 months is a lot of time to spend with your grandmother but not much if your building a CIA network.

Along with the rolled up CIA network some time ago the Iranians probably have more evidence to back up their claims that they can not make public because it would tip off the USA.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-spies-caught-fear-execution-middle-east/story?id=14994428

What i am saying is that Iran probably has a very good reason to be suspect of this guy i doubt they would resort to randomly arresting and convicting Americans just to be dicks.

And if he is involved with the CIA then he is guilty of membership of an organization that commits terrorism against the Iranian state.
Now you may agree or disagree with the death penalty but we can all agree that is normally something that will net you the death sentence in all country's that still use it.

[Renegade Saint]

Look, I don't like the death penalty, but it's the height of hypocrisy to try to condemn this as the US is putting teenagers to death.
It's only hypocrisy if people are defending the US practice of executing teenagers. Is anyone doing that? No. Nice try though.

[manic expression]

It's only hypocrisy if people are defending the US practice of executing teenagers. Is anyone doing that? No. Nice try though.
They don't defend it, but to quite an extent it is seen as "normal", else there would be popular threads right now about the countless people sitting on death row. But when Iran does this in the interests of self-defense against imperialist espionage, we get excited rhetoric of "cruel dictatorship".

So yes, you're right that they aren't defending the US, but I do think there is a double standard, which come to think of it might be a better way to phrase it than hypocrisy (hypocrisy would be not condemning Spanish anarchists for their use of capital punishment).

[Omsk]

not condemning Spanish anarchists for their use of capital punishment


Good job mentioning that.

If the NKVD shot worthless Nazi terrorists ,or traitors,its "Oh my god!This is horrible!Damn Stalin and the NKVD!Such monsters!!!!Our revolution and combat will be all good and clean! /liberal idiocy.

On the other hand,if Spanish anarchists shoot their enemies,(capital p.) we forget that and ignore it completely!Wonderful!

[Obs]

Good job mentioning that.

If the NKVD shot worthless Nazi terrorists ,or traitors,its "Oh my god!This is horrible!Damn Stalin and the NKVD!Such monsters!!!!Our revolution and combat will be all good and clean! /liberal idiocy.

On the other hand,if Spanish anarchists shoot their enemies,(capital p.) we forget that and ignore it completely!Wonderful!
Yeah please don't accuse other leftists of being nazi-sympathising hypocrites. That's really bad mojo.

[Omsk]

Too bad they are.And i actually saw Wermacht apologizers on this forum.However,this thread is not about such fake-leftists,so i wont post more about it.

[Renegade Saint]

They don't defend it, but to quite an extent it is seen as "normal", else there would be popular threads right now about the countless people sitting on death row. But when Iran does this in the interests of self-defense against imperialist espionage, we get excited rhetoric of "cruel dictatorship".


http://www.revleft.com/vb/2-worst-us-t161510/index.html?t=161510&highlight=death+penalty

http://www.revleft.com/vb/troy-davis-execution-t160863/index.html?t=160863&highlight=death+penalty

http://www.revleft.com/vb/troy-davis-innocence-t161544/index.html?t=161544&highlight=death+penalty

http://www.revleft.com/vb/capital-punishment-communist-t160262/index.html?t=160262&highlight=death+penalty

http://www.revleft.com/vb/do-you-support-t158028/index.html?t=158028

http://www.revleft.com/vb/he-14-yrs-t157939/index.html?t=157939&highlight=death+penalty

http://www.revleft.com/vb/mumia-abu-jamal-t165728/index.html?t=165728&highlight=death+penalty

Do these not count because they're not popular "right now"?

I think the popularity of this thread has more to do with the possible geopolitical ramifications of Iran executing an American at this time.

Also, it's not "countless" people on death row, it's 3,222 :http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row-inmates-state-and-size-death-row-year

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

They don't defend it, but to quite an extent it is seen as "normal", else there would be popular threads right now about the countless people sitting on death row. But when Iran does this in the interests of self-defense against imperialist espionage, we get excited rhetoric of "cruel dictatorship".

So yes, you're right that they aren't defending the US, but I do think there is a double standard, which come to think of it might be a better way to phrase it than hypocrisy (hypocrisy would be not condemning Spanish anarchists for their use of capital punishment).

There's no hypocrisy, there are many unfairly on death row in Tehran and the USA, and most of them deserve attention, but if they all did, the forum would be full of them and we'd never talk about anything else. As is though, there are threads on this forum, protests, etc over particularly "popular" cases like Mumia and Leonard Peltier. So it's not like people are exactly silent about the DP in the USA. I know I'm not ... I oppose the DP everywhere except when the person in question is some kind of leader.

As for "self defense" against espionage, since this was a secret trial etc its rather hard to tell whether or not the Iranian government's allegations aren't just trumped up. This isn't just an "Iran is bad" thing, any "crime against the state" is usually tried without the normal civil protections and everywhere the outcome should be questioned and viewed critically. All this chest-beating and laughing about this guy's possibly-impending death is gross.

[manic expression]

I think the popularity of this thread has more to do with the possible geopolitical ramifications of Iran executing an American at this time.
Perhaps, but then why is this descending into an argument on the morality of capital punishment instead of the geopolitical ramifications? And if it was about the geopolitical ramifications why condemn Iran? After all, even if we disagree with capital punishment (as I do), we can still stand for Iran's right to defend itself.


Also, it's not "countless" people on death row, it's 3,222 :http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row-inmates-state-and-size-death-row-year
Thank you for the info. Pretty abhorrent, no?


There's no hypocrisy, there are many unfairly on death row in Tehran and the USA
Hold up a sec. If you're against the death penalty in all cases, then why do you object to the "many unfairly on death row"?


As for "self defense" against espionage, since this was a secret trial etc its rather hard to tell whether or not the Iranian government's allegations aren't just trumped up. This isn't just an "Iran is bad" thing, any "crime against the state" is usually tried without the normal civil protections and everywhere the outcome should be questioned and viewed critically. All this chest-beating and laughing about this guy's possibly-impending death is gross.
Well, many here hate public trials so there's no pleasing them. And it's hardly secret when it's all over the US press with a picture from inside the courtroom.

And yes, we can't know if he is guilty or not, but if he is then Iran is acting in self-defense. Iran's right to do so is the first and last word on the matter. Plus, there is indisputable evidence that the US is involved in espionage through their downed spy plane, and as many have already said the situation here seems to smack of spying.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Hold up a sec. If you're against the death penalty in all cases, then why do you object to the "many unfairly on death row"?



What do you mean?



Well, many here hate public trials so there's no pleasing them. And it's hardly secret when it's all over the US press with a picture from inside the courtroom.


The trial itself isn't a secret *after the fact* but it's well known that Iran (like the US in these kinds of cases) use torture to gain confessions etc and it seems from what i understand that the charges were only made public after the conviction.



And yes, we can't know if he is guilty or not, but if he is then Iran is acting in self-defense. Iran's right to do so is the first and last word on the matter. Plus, there is indisputable evidence that the US is involved in espionage through their downed spy plane, and as many have already said the situation here seems to smack of spying.

There is indisputable evidence that there are Arab terrorists, it doesn't mean that all Arabs held by US intelligence are, in fact, terrorists. Justified paranoia is even more likely to produce false convictions. And this case doesn't seem that suspicious ... he's an American with an Iranian relative, who was visiting them. What's so suspicious about that?

As for Iran's "right" to execute people in "self defense", that does not absolve their use of the death penalty. Let's be consistent, it's wrong when the American Imperialists use the DP against folks like the Rosenbergs, and its wrong when Iran does, even when the person in question is an alleged "Imperialist agent".

[manic expression]

What do you mean?
Why the selectivity?


The trial itself isn't a secret *after the fact* but it's well known that Iran (like the US in these kinds of cases) use torture to gain confessions etc and it seems from what i understand that the charges were only made public after the conviction.
I don't think any country would be wise publicizing "look we caught someone who might be a spy!!!!" In fact I'm pretty sure Iran would have been criticized here if they did. Further, there's no evidence torture was at work here.


There is indisputable evidence that there are Arab terrorists, it doesn't mean that all Arabs held by US intelligence are, in fact, terrorists. Justified paranoia is even more likely to produce false convictions. And this case doesn't seem that suspicious ... he's an American with an Iranian relative, who was visiting them. What's so suspicious about that?
A "former" Marine intelligence officer who was involved in irregular military operations just across the border in Iraq?

Your analogy doesn't make any sense. A former intelligence officer is accused of spying on Iran...that's not the same as thinking all Arabs are terrorists. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with activity.


As for Iran's "right" to execute people in "self defense", that does not absolve their use of the death penalty. Let's be consistent, it's wrong when the American Imperialists use the DP against folks like the Rosenbergs, and its wrong when Iran does, even when the person in question is an alleged "Imperialist agent".
The situations are entirely different.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Why the selectivity?


I think you're taking what I said too literally. Nobody on death row should get executed. Some deserve to be punished somehow, some don't, but the death penalty should be reserved for exceptional cases of abuse of power.



I don't think any country would be wise publicizing "look we caught someone who might be a spy!!!!" In fact I'm pretty sure Iran would have been criticized here if they did. Further, there's no evidence torture was at work here.


No but there has been legitimate allegations of torture before, and no they didn't have to publicize his capture or trial but in that case they also should not have made that trial something which could make a choice which takes his life.



A "former" Marine intelligence officer who was involved in irregular military operations just across the border in Iraq?


Can Iranian-Americans not become marines? Should those that do not visit elderly relatives? Weren't there many, many American marines sent to Iraq? Maybe you disagree with people joining the US armed forces, but I would not want anyone who did being given the death penalty for it.

I'm not saying he is NOT a spy, just that you cannot take the decision of Iran's government for granted.



Your analogy doesn't make any sense. A former intelligence officer is accused of spying on Iran...that's not the same as thinking all Arabs are terrorists. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with activity.


My analogy was on the fact that you used the fact that there ARE real American spies in Iran to induce the fact that this particular person was a spy.



The situations are entirely different.

How? The execution of the Rosenbergs was wrong regardless of whether or not they were involved with espionage. Is it only different when it is a fellow Leftist getting persecuted? That's awfully arbitrary.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

They don't defend it, but to quite an extent it is seen as "normal", else there would be popular threads right now about the countless people sitting on death row. But when Iran does this in the interests of self-defense against imperialist espionage, we get excited rhetoric of "cruel dictatorship".

So yes, you're right that they aren't defending the US, but I do think there is a double standard, which come to think of it might be a better way to phrase it than hypocrisy (hypocrisy would be not condemning Spanish anarchists for their use of capital punishment).

You must have missed the numerous threads here, and popular outrage, over several high-profile US death penalties being followed though.

Seriously, get your head out of the sand you little sectarian.

[Comrade Jandar]

Thank fuck someone here has the good sense to notice the non-paritcular of "death sentence" hanging above this mans head.

Seriously, a bunch of people jumped on the anti-US bandwagon and completely forgot what was going to happen this guy. Absolute disaster that this man should be used as a political weapon like this. In my honest opinion he reeks of spy but its not like that Iranian court would ever give him a fair trial.

Dude, you have a picture of Che Guevara as your avatar. Oh the irony. You think Che would have shown any mercy to a American spy trying to infiltrate Cuba? No, and perhaps, rightly so.

[manic expression]

We've already spoken our minds on the rest of the points so I'll leave them...


How? The execution of the Rosenbergs was wrong regardless of whether or not they were involved with espionage. Is it only different when it is a fellow Leftist getting persecuted? That's awfully arbitrary.
It was basically the exact opposite situation, in that the US was holding the world hostage with the bomb. Had it not happened then, the Cold War wouldn't have been so cold. And besides the wife was proven to not have anything to do with it.

[manic expression]

You must have missed the numerous threads here, and popular outrage, over several high-profile US death penalties being followed though.
But not for the other odd-thousand on death row. This topic is popular because Iran-bashing is fun and easy.

And I don't recall all these clarion voices for human life jumping on the Spanish anarchists for using capital punishment.


Seriously, get your head out of the sand you little sectarian.
Stuck in sand? You must have me confused with a US drone.

[danyboy27]

Dude, you have a picture of Che Guevara as your avatar. Oh the irony. You think Che would have shown any mercy to a American spy trying to infiltrate Cuba? No, and perhaps, rightly so.

what do you achieve by killing him?
spies are more valuable alive than dead, perhaps that why the soviet union didnt outright execute gary powers and the other they captured back then.

Of course the soviet union executed a shitload of people during ww2, that what happen when a state is under siege, it kill peoples.

But during time of peace, the soviet union usually kept infiltrators and spies alive beccause they could be either turned against their old master or exchanged.

Hamas recently proved how valuable a captured soldier was worth: almost 2000 lives in exchange of one.

Being needlessly ruthless wont get you far buddy.

[sulla]

So now you defend one of the most repressive, sadistic and disgraceful regimes in the world?

Iran is absolutely what every socialist in the world should fight against - not support. Even US imperialism would struggle to be on an even keel with those tyrants.


The hyberbole in that statement is amazing. Iran is a pretty fucked up country, but there are far worse countries in the region. Most of them US client states.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

There is a huge amount of factionalism within the Iranian state. Strange as this might seem, it appears that Achmanidijad is part of a more "conciliatory" faction vis a vis US imperialism. During the crisis with the US hikers a few months ago Achmanidijad pushed for an earlier release of the hikers when he was at the UN but was out maneuvered by the more hardline faction around Khameini. This time around Achmanidijad may try to either lift the death sentence against the alleged spy or get him releasedas a way of showing his own faction that he averted war.

From what I've read it seems certain Hekmati was/is an intelligence asset.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/11/an-american-spy-in-iran/

His MO seems a bit clumsy though.There is a large Iranian diaspora and someone of Iranian ancestry certainly has the right to visit family in Iran, regardless of their politics.His extensive Middle East intelligence training and background make any visit to Iran more than a little suspicious. Whether or not he is a "spy" he is, by definition, an intelligence asset.

There is probably a lot we don't know about. My guess in the near future there will be an increasing number of suspicious provocations.I don't think Obama or the US ruling class wants a war with Iran but events could spin out of their control.

[khad]

The guy officially worked for that CIA contractor Kuma Reality Games, which in addition to providing training for the DoD, has released games depicting scenarios in which the United States attacks Iran.


http://www.kumawar.com/assaultoniran/m58.thumb-5.jpg (http://www.kumawar.com/trailermovies/video.iran.php)
Assault on Iran (http://www.kumawar.com/trailermovies/video.iran.php) - As a Special Forces soldier in this playable mission, you will infiltrate Iran's nuclear facility at Natanz, located 150 miles south of Iran's capital of Teheran. But breaching the security cordon around the hardened target won't be easy. Your team's mission: Infiltrate the base, secure evidence of illegal uranium enrichment, rescue your man on the inside, and destroy the centrifuges that promise to take Iran into the nuclear age. Never before has so much hung in the balance... millions of lives, and the very future of democracy could be at stake.

[Red Fist]

Why so much hate on the guy?
Mabey he was just trying to help his country, but with wrong views and opinions.
Most of Iranian refuges outside of Iran are still waiting for freedom and better oppertuneties for their native country and would do many actions for that purpose. Revolution is a process and take long time to accomplish. Unfortunately some other people want the quick solution, and cooperate with the men in power, such as imperialist goverments that only care for their own interests. The imperialists manipulated the guy and used his hunger for freedom as their own weapon and then he was alienated from his search of freedom. You sould feel more shame than happiness, because that you couldn't make some good in influence into this freedom seeker. And if he is a loyal american Patriot, Its still doesn't give you the right to celebrate or to be indifferent with his death sentence. isn't that what we all is fighting against? how can you even be better, if you advocate the same methods as you fight against? That is bad influence, and is why we see some confused people choose to be puppets instead of working for a united community.

[Renegade Saint]

Why so much hate on the guy?
Mabey he was just trying to help his country, but with wrong views and opinions.
Most of Iranian refuges outside of Iran are still waiting for freedom and better oppertuneties for their native country and would do many actions for that purpose. Revolution is a process and take long time to accomplish. Unfortunately some other people want the quick solution, and cooperate with the men in power, such as imperialist goverments that only care for their own interests. The imperialists manipulated the guy and used his hunger for freedom as their own weapon and then he was alienated from his search of freedom. You sould feel more shame than happiness, because that you couldn't make some good in influence into this freedom seeker. And if he is a loyal american Patriot, Its still doesn't give you the right to celebrate or to be indifferent with his death sentence. isn't that what we all is fighting against? how can you even be better, if you advocate the same methods as you fight against? That is bad influence, and is why we see some confused people choose to be puppets instead of working for a united community.
Between this and your post in the thread about the murdered Iranian scientist you have to be a troll. But to prevent myself from getting some sort of infraction I think I should add something substantive.
He can't be just some poor Iranian exile "just trying to help his country" and "a loyal american Patriot." Unless you think there's zero conflict between the interests of the Iranian people and the US government. In which case lulz.

[Red Fist]

Between this and your post in the thread about the murdered Iranian scientist you have to be a troll. But to prevent myself from getting some sort of infraction I think I should add something substantive.
He can't be just some poor Iranian exile "just trying to help his country" and "a loyal american Patriot." Unless you think there's zero conflict between the interests of the Iranian people and the US government. In which case lulz.

No Im not a troll. And all what I write is my real serious views. Mabey I write funny but this is who I am :confused:

What I said was, MABEY he was just trying to help his country in what he feels the easy way, and helped the US goverment because he thinks thats theres no better oppertuneties . And then I wrote "And if he is a loyal american Patriot, Its still doesn't give you the right to celebrate or to be indifferent with his death sentence" then I meant a other type of person and not the same. Of course all here know that there is a bigger chance he is that american patriot but what I meant with my previous post was that you should not be indifferent or celebrating when somebody is sentenced to death no matter who it is. Thats not the style of socialism.

[KR]

You're right, let's all feel sorry for this extremely well-paid imperialist agent.
Are you defending Iran?

[KR]

So imperialism surrounds Iran (literally, look at a map (http://campaigniran.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/usbases1.jpg)), constantly rattles the sabre, invades Iranian airspace, imposes sanctions that hurt Iranian workers, was responsible not only for the horrific Iraq-Iran War but also other bombings thrown in...

...but Iran's the bad guy here...

Look, I don't like the death penalty, but it's the height of hypocrisy to try to condemn this as the US is putting teenagers to death.
Executing people under the age of 18 is illegal in the united states, dont lie to back up your point. And yes iran is the "bad guy" here, it is by far a much worse regime than the united states.

[KR]

AWWW oil prices will go up and it will strain relations with the US ergo we should feel sorry for this guy? That's cute guys.

Please tell me what should be done with CIA scum if not the death penalty? How the hell do you rehabilitate a spy and convince him not to spread the information he gathered? I legitimately want to know, I think this would make a good debate.
Why do you care if Irans military secrets are revealed? Why do you give a shit about the iranian regime?

[KR]

We don't know that but we do know that the guy worked as a military translator and apparently spend 4 months in iran to visit his grandmother.

An ethnic persian man that speaks the language would be the ideal agent to have there and 4 months is a lot of time to spend with your grandmother but not much if your building a CIA network.

Along with the rolled up CIA network some time ago the Iranians probably have more evidence to back up their claims that they can not make public because it would tip off the USA.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-spies-caught-fear-execution-middle-east/story?id=14994428

What i am saying is that Iran probably has a very good reason to be suspect of this guy i doubt they would resort to randomly arresting and convicting Americans just to be dicks.

And if he is involved with the CIA then he is guilty of membership of an organization that commits terrorism against the Iranian state.
Now you may agree or disagree with the death penalty but we can all agree that is normally something that will net you the death sentence in all country's that still use it.
Do you think they are justified in executing this man?

[manic expression]

Executing people under the age of 18 is illegal in the united states, dont lie to back up your point. And yes iran is the "bad guy" here, it is by far a much worse regime than the united states.
18 and 19-year olds are still teenagers.

Iran is not the "bad guy" in this situation and anyone who claims as much is an apologist for imperialism...last I checked, Iran hasn't invaded a country since 1979, while imperialism has not only invaded and occupied dozens of countries (not coincidentally two countries immediately bordering Iran, no prizes for guessing why) causing the death of millions, but has also encouraged its puppets to do the same at terrifying human cost.

[KR]

Too bad they are.And i actually saw Wermacht apologizers on this forum.However,this thread is not about such fake-leftists,so i wont post more about it.
Are you a fake leftist if you oppose executing people?

[manic expression]

Are you a fake leftist if you oppose executing people?
You're not even a fake leftist if you make groveling excuses for imperialist murder.

[KR]

Perhaps, but then why is this descending into an argument on the morality of capital punishment instead of the geopolitical ramifications? And if it was about the geopolitical ramifications why condemn Iran? After all, even if we disagree with capital punishment (as I do), we can still stand for Iran's right to defend itself.
No, i dont care what happens to the Iranian regime, being oppresed by a national bourgeoise is just as bad as being oppresed by a foreign bourgeoise.

[KR]

The hyberbole in that statement is amazing. Iran is a pretty fucked up country, but there are far worse countries in the region. Most of them US client states.
Care to give any examples?

[KR]

18 and 19-year olds are still teenagers.

Iran is not the "bad guy" in this situation and anyone who claims as much is an apologist for imperialism...last I checked, Iran hasn't invaded a country since 1979, while imperialism has not only invaded and occupied dozens of countries (not coincidentally two countries immediately bordering Iran, no prizes for guessing why) causing the death of millions, but has also encouraged its puppets to do the same at terrifying human cost.
Imperialism is not worse than domestic oppression.

[manic expression]

No, i dont care what happens to the Iranian regime, being oppresed by a national bourgeoise is just as bad as being oppresed by a foreign bourgeoise.
Then you don't care about what happens to the Iranian people. Your cheap excuses for imperialist murder are evidence of your priorities.


Imperialism is not worse than domestic oppression.
I'm sure the people of Iraq are very receptive to that argument. Maybe you should go there and try to tell them that.

[manic expression]

Care to give any examples?
Saudi Arabia. Have fun trying to explain that one away.

[Red Fist]

18 and 19-year olds are still teenagers.

Iran is not the "bad guy" in this situation and anyone who claims as much is an apologist for imperialism...last I checked, Iran hasn't invaded a country since 1979, while imperialism has not only invaded and occupied dozens of countries (not coincidentally two countries immediately bordering Iran, no prizes for guessing why) causing the death of millions, but has also encouraged its puppets to do the same at terrifying human cost.

Both goverments exploits and manipulate the people for their own interests. There is no "good guy" or "bad guy" in this situation when both pigs eats their own shit. Mabey Iran haven't indvaded a country since the Iran-Irak war, but the goverment have its own imperialism plans in the middle east region, such as supporting the lebanesse hezbollah with weapons and money or Trade arms for opium with afghanistani taliban Iran want to be the biggest Islamic icon in that region, like the US is the biggest icon that stands for "freedom and liberty". Futhermore, to manipulate a people for indvadeing a foreign country is one thing, but Judging someone to death by street hangings or to be stoned for dont got any belief in god or for reading books of marx is another thing.

[Renegade Saint]

Care to give any examples?
Saudi Arabia? EDIT: already done. Bahrain. Uzbekistan.

[manic expression]

Both goverments exploits and manipulate the people for their own interests. There is no "good guy" or "bad guy" in this situation when both pigs eats their own shit. Mabey Iran haven't indvaded a country since the Iran-Irak war, but the goverment have its own imperialism plans in the middle east region, such as supporting the lebanesse hezbollah with weapons and money or Trade arms for opium with afghanistani taliban Iran want to be the biggest Islamic icon in that region, like the US is the biggest icon that stands for "freedom and liberty". Futhermore, to manipulate a people for indvadeing a foreign country is one thing, but Judging someone to death by street hangings or to be stoned for dont got any belief in god or for reading books of marx is another thing.
No, Iran didn't invade Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War, they were attacked by Saddam the US puppet. Supporting Hezbollah isn't imperialism, it's solidarity with people under vicious assault from Zionism. Lastly, the death penalty isn't exclusive to Iran by any means.

[Red Fist]

Saudi Arabia and Iran are both ruled by the same sharia laws. Yes Saudi Arabia is a good puppet for the imperialists but do you see Saudi Arabia sending its armed forces to the west for killing its native political refuges? Saudi arabia goverment live for its self and makeing money, while Iran want to make some manipulated influence for muslims around the west. by the way, I think Israel is the worst country in that region. But there is no big difference between iran and israel when both countrys morale and fundaments is based on religion.

[Red Fist]

No, Iran didn't invade Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War, they were attacked by Saddam the US puppet. Supporting Hezbollah isn't imperialism, it's solidarity with people under vicious assault from Zionism. Lastly, the death penalty isn't exclusive to Iran by any means.

Thats right, Iran dident indvade Iraq it was the opposite. but thats not the point.

Do you know who Hezbollah are before calling the support for "solidarty with people" ? The Hezbollah organisation was made in Iran. The islamic forces was named hezbollah under the iranian revolution. After they got control over the goverment they made a new Department in lebanon. Islam has a great influence in the Arab morale, and Iran knows how to use that for their own purpose. If the lebanesse hezbollah gets control over lebanon then you will see the same kind of goverment like in Iran and it will become Irans puppet, and that is imperialism. I know in fact that if you join the hezbollah forces then you will be given 5000 $, a weapon and protection for you and your family. If I was a poor lebanesse living in the middle of the ghetto then I see no point not to join hezbollah.

[piet11111]

Do you think they are justified in executing this man?

I expect the Iranian state to know more about this man then we do but that they are not willing to share their knowledge as it could expose parts of their counter-intelligence program.

[manic expression]

@ Red Fist, they're not ruled by the same laws. For one thing, the mandatory coverings for women are completely different. From what I remember they don't have the abaya (that long black gown that covers most everything) as mandatory in Iran while in large swathes of Saudi Arabia it is. That's just one difference off the top of my head.

You're 100% right that Israel is the worst country in the region, but it's not because it's a country influenced by religion, it's because Israel is far and away the bloodiest, most belligerent, most racist country in the region. Hezbollah, whatever you think of them, is trying to fight that menace. And really, a lot of groups got their start in 79, it hardly makes Hezbollah an Iranian pawn.

[KR]

No, Iran didn't invade Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War, they were attacked by Saddam the US puppet. Supporting Hezbollah isn't imperialism, it's solidarity with people under vicious assault from Zionism. Lastly, the death penalty isn't exclusive to Iran by any means.
So you also support Hezbollah?

[KR]

@ Red Fist, they're not ruled by the same laws. For one thing, the mandatory coverings for women are completely different. From what I remember they don't have the abaya (that long black gown that covers most everything) as mandatory in Iran while in large swathes of Saudi Arabia it is. That's just one difference off the top of my head.

You're 100% right that Israel is the worst country in the region, but it's not because it's a country influenced by religion, it's because Israel is far and away the bloodiest, most belligerent, most racist country in the region. Hezbollah, whatever you think of them, is trying to fight that menace. And really, a lot of groups got their start in 79, it hardly makes Hezbollah an Iranian pawn.
And Hezbollah is't much more bloody, racist, and much more influenced by religion than Israel? Hezbollah is much worse than Israel in every possible way.

[manic expression]

So you also support Hezbollah?
You know, I was going to answer this, and then I remembered that you ran away from the point about Saudi Arabia like any cheap apologist for imperialism would. I'll wait until you formulate a real argument.

[KR]

You know, I was going to answer this, and then I remembered that you ran away from the point about Saudi Arabia like any cheap apologist for imperialism would. I'll wait until you formulate a real argument.
I dont disagree that Saudi Arabia is worse than Iran, i just asked for examples because at that moment i could't remember any country worse than Iran.

[manic expression]

I dont disagree that Saudi Arabia is worse than Iran, i just asked for examples because at that moment i could't remember any country worse than Iran.
Well, it's not only Saudi Arabia...other gulf states are populated largely by Pakistani workers and others who basically form a quasi-enslaved underclass and get paid dirt by some of the richest people on the planet. And let's not forget another one of imperialism's greatest hits in the region: Afghanistan under the Taliban.

So while we may object to Iranian law, we cannot object to the fact that the Iranian government is resisting the most bloodthirsty and downright reactionary force in the region. In that vital struggle, the Iranian people deserve the support of all progressives. And of course, it's extremely important that we keep to the facts about Iran, which are usually very different from what the imperialist media tells us.