A thread on Histadrut Socialist Zionism?

[Small Geezer]

After reading the autobiography of Golda Meir, I feel that someone as committed to the aims of 'Socialist Zionism' would be a very interesting addition to revolutionary thought seeing as that tradition was so tied up in left thought. What do the other comrades think?

[ellipsis]

Zionism/Jewish Nationalism is defacto reactionary, IMO, due to its nationalist nature. Religious hierarchies are also pretty reactionary.

Also, from wiki:

In the first year of its existence the Histadrut lacked central leadership, and many initiatives were taken at the local level. This changed after David Ben-Gurion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Gurion) became appointed in the General Secretariat. Ben-Gurion wanted to transform the Histadrut into a national instrument for the realisation of Zionism.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histadrut#cite_note-tzahor486-5) According to Zeev Sternhell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeev_Sternhell)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histadrut#cite_note-6) Ben-Gurion's exclusive commitment to this goal is illustrated by a December 1922 quote:

[...] Our central problem is immigration ... and not adapting our lives to this or that doctrine. [...] How can we run our Zionist movement in such a way that [... we] will be able to carry out the conquest of the land by the Jewish worker, and which will find the resources to organise the massive immigration and settlement of workers through their own capabilities? The creation of a new Zionist movement, a Zionist movement of workers, is the first prerequisite for the fulfillment of Zionism. [...] Without [such] a new Zionist movement that is entirely at our disposal, there is no future or hope for our activities
Ben-Gurion transformed the Histadrut in a few months. He set up a well-defined hierarchy and reduced the competencies of local workers' councils
....
However according to Ze'ev Sternhell in his book The Founding Myths of Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Founding_Myths_of_Israel), the labor leaders had already abandoned socialist principles by 1920 and only used them as "mobilizing myths."


So no i don't think this has potential to be revolutionary.

[Prometeo liberado]

Hmm..Socialism + Zionism, just ask the Palestinians if its ok. They might have a say in it.

[ellipsis]

moved to politics.

[Crux]

After reading the autobiography of Golda Meir, I feel that someone as committed to the aims of 'Socialist Zionism' would be a very interesting addition to revolutionary thought seeing as that tradition was so tied up in left thought. What do the other comrades think?
I think it has long ago proved a dead end for jewish socialists. But indeed they would not be the first to make such mistakes.

[freepalestine]

I think it has long ago proved a dead end for jewish socialists. But indeed they would not be the first to make such mistakes.
what has proven a dead end?zionism?
mistakes? do you mean ethnic cleansing and take over someone elses country?

[Misanthrope]

Israel is a nationalist-imperialist occupancy. How can you support that and international worker's revolution...?

[Crux]

what has proven a dead end?zionism?
mistakes? do you mean ethnic cleansing and take over someone elses country?
Yes, the supposed emancipatory ideals of socialist zionism is a dead end for the jewish working class. I am an anti-zionist partly for that reason. The other part of the reason I bet you are clever enough to figure out by yourself.

[MarxSchmarx]

perhaps i am in the minority here, but it is important to understand that "Zionism" is an intellectual current among practicing Jews that states that Jews merely should be able to, and should in fact, move to Palestine. "Zionism" as such has nothing to do displacing Muslim/Christian Palestinians - in fact, importantly, Palestinian Jews who for centuries lived in Palestine and spoke primarily Arabic and saw themselves as Palestinian, were quite vocal in their opposition to a "Jewish State of Israel", as were many other Zionists, who felt that the return to Palestine is perfectly compatible with peaceful coexistence with non-Jews.

The policies of the state of Israel have just as much "influence" from Zionism as they do from American manifest destiny, or, for that matter, opportunists among the oligarchs in the gulf states.

[Small Geezer]

I still think it would be interesting to hear from some left-zionists. If there are any left. Most of the genuine Israeli left seems to be quite cold on Zionism without rejecting some form of Israeli state.

As the troubles in Palestine intensified in the 30's then when the State of Israel was established, Labour Zionists seemed to become a lot more vicious and some of the principled ones drifted out of importance.

Still the Mapai party did a lot of things that would put them on the left economically, but everyone did back then.