Cuba Withdrawing Travel Restrictions

[Susurrus]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/22/communist-cuba-set-to-end-travel-restrictions/

[Renegade Saint]

Good. It's hard to credibly claim to be socialist without open borders.

[cheguvera]

I request from cuban leaders to turn the cuba into first anarchy state on this planet.Let the people to rule themselves through public organizations.
surely cubans will benefit from it.

[Fopeos]

Wait, maybe i'm naive, or maybe the socialist press i read, which is strongly biased toward Cuba, has misled me but, i thought Cubans were pretty free to travel. I thought it was the U.S. that maintained all of the obstacles and restrictions. I've seen many articles about Cuban students, workers, and doctors travelling everywhere to do speaking tours and volunteer work. I realize these are government sponsored programs, but i'd assumed citizens can travel, i just assumed most average Cuban workers can't really afford to travel. Their wages are kinda low off the island. I know most of their domestic needs are met, but they, on average, don't earn much expendable income. A fistful of Cuban pesos probably won't stretch far, even in other less developed countries. Please, someone set me straight.

[Fopeos]

To the che post above, that would be awesome, but Cuba isn't ready for that step. I do believe that Cubans are some of the most class-conscious and politically aware people on the planet. They have a far more socialist mentality than folks from the U.S. but they're not socialized enough to move beyond the 'building socialism' phase. Unfortunately, they've been retreating from the communist goal since the U.S.S.R. collapsed and exposed them to the full ravages of the world market. Fidel and the Cuban leadership had made great strides throughout the 60s and 70s but they stagnated. The late 80s 'rectification' came too late. I've recently read Carlos Tablada's 'Che- politics, economics, and the transition to Socialism'. It made a good argument for Che's economic theories. He had a fresh take on making socialism work. According to this book though, many in Cuba were pushing for the Soviet model. Che had rivals in the department of industry. Some of his plans were implemented and some steps were over ambitious and failed. Che wanted to break the sugar dependency and diversify the economy. As i said, he met with various degrees of failure and success but was replaced, along with his Budgetary Finance System. (i'm a bit messed and may have many of these facts wrong, but i think i'm conveying the gist of it, Feel free to tear me apart comrades, i've got thick skin) Anyway, the Soviet system that Che was skeptical about was fully implemented and functioned for decades. Fidel gave a speach in 87 admitting that many of Che's theories on budgeting and incentives sound more progressive and effective, and that they would try to implement some. He spoke very critically of the USSR, stating that it was moving away from socialism. Not toward capitalism, but not toward democratic socialism either. In my opinion, Cuba wasted decades. They could have been moving ahead, changing people, changing their economy. As i stated above, i'm messed and probably full of shit, but hey, i am a communist and this is the one place i can rant like this.....Read this book. Draw your own conclusions. It changed the way i look at Che. He did contribute to Marxist economic theory. His plans seemed totally feasible to me. He advocated gradual changes, moral incentives alongside material ones. Voluntary weekend work, which sounds terrible, but if it's done in a communal and festive way, Che argued, could eventually change the way we see work. We have to change our consciousness. By making work social, and kinda fun, and offering moral rewards, people may eventually do it as a purely social duty. I feel that there must be some way to coerce people to do the labor that needs done without making it so miserable. I used to work 60 hour weeks in a factory, hating every minute, because i wanted to save extra money. I was numb and miserable but, they announced the factory was closing and i needed a cusion to keep my woman and i in a home. Fuck, i'm off on a tangent. My point is, i've worked inhumanly long hours for solely material incentives out of fear, feeling the alienation, the dog eat dog ant-social individual isolation of doing my part in a chain of production. Lost where i was going. sorry if i wasted your time with reading this. Feel free to ridicule or ignore. Or, give your opinions. I'll be the first to admit, i don't know shit. Been a commie for like 10 years but have been a little isolated. Read lots of Marx and Lenin. Regularly read 'the Militant' which is a weekly socialist paper put out by the SWP here in the states. it's Trotskist i'd say and i'm a bit Trot myself. i'm not uneducated in Marxism, just a bit naive from lack of interaction with other tendencies. That's why i love revleft. My horizons keep expanding. I welcome all criticisms.. Again, i babble.. feel like a tool.. sorry... love you guys

[RedSonRising]

Cuba has long had some level of restriction and methods of reprimand in order to prevent capital flight and whatnot. I am happy that less restrictions are now in place and that more freedom of movement is being explored, but I wonder if and how the government is going to curb a drain of their professional and labor force.

[KurtFF8]

I request from cuban leaders to turn the cuba into first anarchy state on this planet.Let the people to rule themselves through public organizations.
surely cubans will benefit from it.

I'm guessing this wasn't a serious post.


Anyway to the OP: this is a good development. I fully support the Cuban revolution but I've had issues this policy. This isn't news though, as this has been in the making for a while now.

[Tim Finnegan]

Does this make the Cuban "workers' state" more or less "deformed"?

[Ocean Seal]

Does this make the Cuban "workers' state" more or less "deformed"?
I understand that this was a joke, but it sheds light on something important (which I assume was its purpose). We should as of now consider Cuba a social-democratic state/retreated from socialism and think of its actions accordingly.

[cheguvera]

I'm guessing this wasn't a serious post.


Anyway to the OP: this is a good development. I fully support the Cuban revolution but I've had issues this policy. This isn't news though, as this has been in the making for a while now.
nope, I am very serious.cuba is walking towards the democracy.It is good.We need freedom of talk,freedom of thought,freedom of IT etc.
But here comes corrupt politicians & super-rich to fuck us from all directions with it.
Rather than giving the country to politicians, it is better to make it anarchist state.It should be a some kind of anarchy.Cuban should consider making into first anarchy state.There are so many anarchists in east, west & every nook of corner.Cubans will get lots of support from them.They can make it the anarchists head quarters & launch the global revolution from Havana.

[Susurrus]

Well, there was a large anarchist movement in Cuba, so it's possible it might come back. On the other hand, the reason it's gone now is because the Castro government crushed it, so not very likely to happen without another revolution.

[Rafiq]

nope, I am very serious.cuba is walking towards the democracy.It is good.We need freedom of talk,freedom of thought,freedom of IT etc.
But here comes corrupt politicians & super-rich to fuck us from all directions with it.
Rather than giving the country to politicians, it is better to make it anarchy state.It should be a some kind of anarchy.Cuban should consider making into first anarchy state.There are so many anarchists in east, west & every nook of corner.Cubans will get lots of support from them.They can make it the anarchists head quarters & launch the global revolution from Havana.

Dude you're a genius.

I can't believe no one has thought of that!

[Belleraphone]

i request from cuban leaders to turn the cuba into first anarchy state on this planet.let the people to rule themselves through public organizations.
Surely cubans will benefit from it.


anarchy state
oh god what

[Sosa]

anarchy state


Anarcho-Authoritarians/Anarcho-Statists

[cheguvera]

oh god what

sorry about my english.:wub: you mean stateless?..It is not only english speakers who are for anarchism.:).they have a state.state of the people.they do not have rulers.

Anarchy is "A theoretical social state in which there is no governing person or body of persons, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."
It seems however that this statement is inherently paradoxical as human society cannot function without some sort of structure on the base level.
They have organisations formed by people.They are not permanent.Members are not permanent.

[cheguvera]

when you look at the amount of abuse of freedom, corruption, destruction & state sponsored terrorism caused by so called politicians in south asia, africa , south america,east asia etc, why would they give their country to unreliable politicians.?
I dont have problem with western politicians as they are not bad as third world.
Popular politicians are prone to corruption & they are influenced by super-rich.There is no point of installing dictators to serve our aspirations.When there is no freedom, dictators are doing their own agenda.History shows they have become power hungry & become a elite group in social societies.Most of them are not honest.They have become socialists because they are greedy to rule.

[Clarksist]

I understand that this was a joke, but it sheds light on something important (which I assume was its purpose). We should as of now consider Cuba a social-democratic state/retreated from socialism and think of its actions accordingly.

This is not the place to start the debate on whether Cuba ever was or still is "socialist", but I do hate the notion that relaxing restrictions on the proletariat is somehow not socialist. It is restriction on the proletariat which is not socialist.

It is important to keep in mind that much of the authoritarian nature of the regime comes from the immense threat of the United States trying to destroy the revolution, but that being said, the socialist state should see the human rights of the people as an absolute non-negotiable.

Or, to put it more plainly, why is it worth protecting a revolution which does not put the rights of the people as its first priority?

This is not to say you disagree with such a sentiment, but that I did read that from your post. I may be mistaken, wouldn't be the first time. ;)

[Prometeo liberado]

From what I was told when I went there the Cubans who have stayed in the US for some time or were second generation could only go through mexico like everyone else. Now if you are a Cuban citizen then you could not go as a family, and not with alot of currency.

[RedSonRising]

From what I was told when I went there the Cubans who have stayed in the US for some time or were second generation could only go through mexico like everyone else. Now if you are a Cuban citizen then you could not go as a family, and not with alot of currency.

I believe visiting Cuban families have been given much more leeway within the last 5 years or so.

[cheguvera]

If Cuba becomes an anarchist country, that will be a great motivation for anarchists in all around the world. It should adopt some form of anarchism.As cheguvera came to libertae Cuba from junta, anarchists from all around the world will camp their to defend it from threats.
In somalia they do not have a state.But that is not the anarchism.In anarchism state is the people. I mean organised people.When we have a popular vote, state is the politicians & super rich.

[Rafiq]

Cheguvera is like the new Bakunin.