Abrahamic (Adam & Eve) creation story sexist

[Hexen]

I'm surprised that nobody has pointed this out yet which according to Genesis 3:16: for example



“And to the woman [God] said, ‘I will make most severe your pains in childbearing; in pain shall you bear children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.’ ”


Which means that God not only laid a curse on Eve that she'll have painful childbirth but also she'll be more submissive to her husband which is the main core reason why the story is so sexist because if all women in the world were descended from Eve which means they all carry this same curse laid upon God which would have mean that humanity would not have progressed further the Bronze age and also feminism/egalitarianism wouldn't exist nor be even would even possible if the story was true (hence it's been already proven untrue due to otherwise since women are not "naturally" submissive but although the painful childbirth thing is true however).


Also this article has more information:



http://aimee-larsen-stoddard.suite101.com/curse-of-eve-in-genesis-and-discrimination-against-women-sexism-a238205

[Nox]

>religion
>discriminatory

Nothing new here ;)

[Sasha]

You should see or read the play [email protected], its about the real first female who is created as Adams equal, which offcourse means she packs up her stuff and leaves as soon as she gets the chance, a bunch of angels then try to convince her to go back as her replacement Eva is way to docile etc. It's really good.

[Azraella]

Actually, to be honest. It's probably best to view Genesis as a metaphor that can be interpreted in many ways. Most serious Christian theologians do not take Genesis literally and many of the events in the Bible should be seen as allegorical.

That said, there are two main interpretations of Genesis 3: in the conservative and fundamentalist versions, it was the fall of mankind and is often the reasoning for sexist attitudes among that group and there is a liberal interpretation that puts Satan in a better light as the being that made us grow up and become more than a proto-human. In effect, we have the knowledge of good and evil. Most Christians think Adam is just as uch to blame for the fall of humanity as Eve is. When I was in a Bible study class in high school after sitting though several questions about Genesis like "How did Adam and Eve know what death was" and "Why did Adam need a wife?" the priest observing interrupted with "This is killing me, guys."

He went on to explain that the word "Adam" means "man" or, more acurately "Mankind" while "Eve" means not only "Woman" but "Human Life" which is the more correct translation. So what the story is actally about is how God created mankind and from mankind, he drew out human life. The Serpent is there because the ancient Hebrews were tempted to worship pagan fertility religions, many of which at the time revered snakes because of their closeness to the fertile ground. Etc., etc.. The Church has no problem with people taking the Bible superficially but if you do that you end up with a lot of contradictions and unanswered questions. Just because "everything in the bible is true" doesn't mean everything is literal.

Seriously, I don't think I've ever met anybody but wacko fundamentalists who actually believed Genesis was literally true. It's like treating "The Tortoise and the Hare" as a story of a race between a turtle and a rabbit. You miss the entire point

[Hexen]

You should see or read the play [email protected], its about the real first female who is created as Adams equal, which offcourse means she packs up her stuff and leaves as soon as she gets the chance, a bunch of angels then try to convince her to go back as her replacement Eva is way to docile etc. It's really good.

Well I heard that Lilith was a midrash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash) and of course even if it's true, Lilith didn't sire human children which still means that all women in the world are all descended from Eve which therefore means that all women in the world are docile like Eve. Of course Lilith and Eve are supposed to be the two archtypes which Lilith is a sex symbol character while Eve is the damsel in distress/good wife character which is found in many fiction if you ever noticed.

Either way, the story is still sexist. Of course if you can compare the story to the Norse creation story you'll see how deeply sexist the Abrahamic creation story really is.

[Sasha]

Hey, I'm with you, I just pointed you to a nice creative critique of it.

[hatzel]

Well I heard that Lilith was a midrash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash) and of course even if it's true...

To be brutally honest it's actually from a raucous quasi-satirical story from the Middle Ages, with all the Biblical characters in obscene sexual situations. You know, real Canterbury Tales kind of humour, as people liked back then. There's no reference to Lilith in the actual religious writings (except for as some vaguely defined demon present in the Middle Eastern, presumably Babylonian in particular, folklore of the time, but in these cases there's no link whatsoever to the Biblical Creation story), yet for some reason I've still had people saying to me "well in the Bible it explicitly says that this other girl wanted to go on top and she wasn't allowed!" or whatever :confused:

[Hexen]

To be brutally honest it's actually from a raucous quasi-satirical story from the Middle Ages, with all the Biblical characters in obscene sexual situations. You know, real Canterbury Tales kind of humour, as people liked back then. There's no reference to Lilith in the actual religious writings (except for as some vaguely defined demon present in the Middle Eastern, presumably Babylonian in particular, folklore of the time, but in these cases there's no link whatsoever to the Biblical Creation story), yet for some reason I've still had people saying to me "well in the Bible it explicitly says that this other girl wanted to go on top and she wasn't allowed!" or whatever :confused:

Yep this is what I was trying to mention so Lilith is out of the question which leaves us to only Adam & Eve....

[Hexen]

Of course I found another article on the matter:

http://rebecca-craig.suite101.com/a-new-view-of-eves-curse-a72460

http://www.icanbreathe.com/newpage15.htm

[Zealot]

This is nothing new, we are well aware. Modern Christians are quite embarrassed about things like this, thus lady catherine's interpretation. It's all well to interpret it that way and regard it as a myth, of course I would rather have it that way, but it cannot be overlooked as to how this was originally intended. All evidence points to the fact that early Christians and Jews took it literally, even Paul in his letters supports the concept of men ruling over women and in fact uses this exact story as his justification.

[Hexen]

This is nothing new, we are well aware. Modern Christians are quite embarrassed about things like this, thus lady catherine's interpretation. It's all well to interpret it that way and regard it as a myth, of course I would rather have it that way, but it cannot be overlooked as to how this was originally intended. All evidence points to the fact that early Christians and Jews took it literally, even Paul in his letters supports the concept of men ruling over women and in fact uses this exact story as his justification.

Exactly, Modern Christians are basically wasting their time reinterpreting what was originally straight forward till the point of insanity. It's only a matter of time that people should see for what it is.

[RGacky3]

Whether or not the bible is sexist is totally irrelivant, if it is not divinely inspired then it holds NO weight whatsoever and no one should care if it is sexist or not, if it is divinely inspired then the implications are beyond our judgement.

[RGacky3]

BTW, that verse is a prediction of what WILL happen, not a judgement of what SHOULD happen.

[Astarte]

I'm surprised that nobody has pointed this out yet which according to Genesis 3:16: for example





Which means that God not only laid a curse on Eve that she'll have painful childbirth but also she'll be more submissive to her husband which is the main core reason why the story is so sexist because if all women in the world were descended from Eve which means they all carry this same curse laid upon God which would have mean that humanity would not have progressed further the Bronze age and also feminism/egalitarianism wouldn't exist nor be even would even possible if the story was true (hence it's been already proven untrue due to otherwise since women are not "naturally" submissive but although the painful childbirth thing is true however).


Also this article has more information:



http://aimee-larsen-stoddard.suite101.com/curse-of-eve-in-genesis-and-discrimination-against-women-sexism-a238205

You should look into the Gnostic text "On The Origin of the World".


The Gnostic Christians who authored the Nag Hammadi scriptures did not read Genesis as history with a moral, but as a myth with a meaning. To them, Adam and Eve were not actual historical figures, but representatives of two intrapsychic principles within every human being. Adam was the dramatic embodiment of psyche, or soul, while Eve stood for the pneuma, or spirit. Soul, to the Gnostics, meant the embodiment of the emotional and thinking functions of the personality, while spirit represented the human capacity for spiritual consciousness. The former was the lesser self (the ego of depth psychology), the latter the transcendental function, or the "higher self," as it is sometimes known. Obviously, Eve, then, is by nature superior to Adam, rather than his inferior as implied by orthodoxy.

Nowhere is Eve's superiority and numinous power more evident than in her role as Adam's awakener. Adam is in a deep sleep, from which Eve's liberating call arouses him. While the orthodox version has Eve physically emerge from Adam's body, the Gnostic rendering has the spiritual principle known as Eve emerging from the unconscious depths of the somnolent Adam. Before she thus emerges into liberating consciousness, Eve calls forth to the sleeping Adam in the following manner, as stated by the Gnostic Apocryphon of John:

I entered into the midst of the dungeon which is the prison of the body. And I spoke thus: "He who hears, let him arise from the deep sleep." And then he (Adam) wept and shed tears. After he wiped away his bitter tears he spoke, asking: "Who is it that calls my name, and whence has this hope come unto me, while I am in the chains of this prison?" And I spoke thus: "I am the Pronoia of the pure light; I am the thought of the undefiled spirit. . . . Arise and remember . . . and follow your root, which is I . . . and beware of the deep sleep."

In another scripture from the same collection, entitled On the Origin of the World, we find further amplification of this theme. Here Eve whose mystical name is Zoe, meaning life, is shown as the daughter and messenger of the Divine Sophia, the feminine hypostasis of the supreme Godhead:

Sophia sent Zoe, her daughter, who is called "Eve," as an instructor in order that she might raise up Adam, in whom there is no spiritual soul so that those whom he could beget might also become vessels of light. When Eve saw her companion, who was so much like her, in his cast down condition she pitied him, and she exclaimed: "Adam, live! Rise up upon the earth!" Immediately her words produced a result for when Adam rose up, right away he opened his eyes. When he saw her, he said: "You will be called 'mother of the living', because you are the one who gave me life."

In the same scripture, the creator and his companions whisper to each other while Adam sleeps: "Let us teach him in his sleep as though she (Eve) came to be from his rib so that the woman will serve and he will be lord over her." The demeaning tale of Adam's rib is thus revealed as a propagandistic device intended to advance an attitude of male superiority. It goes without saying that such an attitude would have been more difficult among the Gnostics, who held that man was indebted to woman for bringing him to life and to consciousness.
http://www.gnosis.org/genesis.html


In most Gnostic texts though it seems that the first "Adam" also known as the "Adamas" (which essentially means first human created from the clay or dust) was actually Androgynine. A Perfect being in the image of the Barbello, apparently surpassing the corruption of duality.

[Franz Fanonipants]

the foundational oral tradition of a patriarchal nomadic culture is patriarchal?

amazing.

[Zealot]

You should look into the Gnostic text "On The Origin of the World".

In most Gnostic texts though it seems that the first "Adam" also known as the "Adamas" (which essentially means first human created from the clay or dust) was actually Androgynine. A Perfect being in the image of the Barbello, apparently surpassing the corruption of duality.

Gnostic texts are pretty much irrelevant since not a single Christian believes them. And if we want to bring the Gnostics into this let's not forget the Gospel of Thomas which literally says "women are not worthy of life." to which Jesus says that if they become males they will be able to enter heaven.

[chimx]

shocking! a book written 3000 years ago contains sexism! who would have thought

[Black_Rose]

Augustine of Hippo's sexist exegesis of the Fall. I think he literally believes in the Fall.

I found this after re-reading portions of The City of God.


Man then lived with God for his rule in a paradise at once physical and spiritual. For neither was it a paradise only physical for the advantage of the body, and not also spiritual for the advantage of the mind; nor was it only spiritual to afford enjoyment to man by his internal sensations, and not also physical to afford him enjoyment through his external senses. But obviously it was both for both ends. But after that proud and therefore envious angel (of whose fall I have said as much as I was able in the eleventh and twelfth books of this work, as well as that of his fellows, who, from being God’s angels, became his angels), preferring to rule with a kind of pomp of empire rather than to be another’s subject, fell from the spiritual Paradise, and essaying to insinuate his persuasive guile into the mind of man, whose unfallen condition provoked him to envy now that himself was fallen, he chose the serpent as his mouthpiece in that bodily Paradise in which it and all the other earthly animals were living with those two human beings, the man and his wife, subject to them, and harmless; and he chose the serpent because, being slippery, and moving in tortuous windings, it was suitable for his purpose. And this animal being subdued to his wicked ends by the presence and superior force of his angelic nature, he abused as his instrument, and first tried his deceit upon the woman, making his assault upon the weaker part of that human alliance, that he might gradually gain the whole, and not supposing that the man would readily give ear to him, or be deceived, but that he might yield to the error of the woman. For as Aaron was not induced to agree with the people when they blindly wished him to make an idol, and yet yielded to constraint; and as it is not credible that Solomon was so blind as to suppose that idols should be worshipped, but was drawn over to such sacrilege by the blandishments of women; so we cannot believe that Adam was deceived, and supposed the devil’s word to be truth, and therefore transgressed God’s law, but that he by the drawings of kindred yielded to the woman, the husband to the wife, the one human being to the only other human being. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_City_of_God/Book_XIV/Chapter_11

Emphasis mine