The Red Terror and Decossackization - Were they justified policies?

[RedScot24/11/1859]

As most of us know, after establishing a Soviet Republic the Bolshevisks had a policy of mass terror against the upper classes, Tsarists and white supporters. They executed an estimated 15,000 Tsarists and even more whites to my knowledge, with the imprisonment of many more.

There was also the policy of Decossackization, the deportation of thousands of Cossacks due to a perceived support for the whites, many wealthy Cossacks were executed but later the executions were condemned by Lenin who said the local authorities had an "immature overenthusiasm".

Were these Justified as acts of class war needed to keep the revolution alive? Or were they unjustified and the wrong decision?

[MotherCossack]

There was also the policy of Decossackization, the deportation of thousands of Cossacks due to a perceived support for the whites, many wealthy Cossacks were executed but later the executions were condemned by Lenin who said the local authorities had an "immature overenthusiasm".



excuse me? err... oh i must have been in the toilet when that happened. (although ...hang on i'm not wealthy.....)
hey youngblood cossack.... have you heard about this....?

[A Marxist Historian]

As most of us know, after establishing a Soviet Republic the Bolshevisks had a policy of mass terror against the upper classes, Tsarists and white supporters. They executed an estimated 15,000 Tsarists and even more whites to my knowledge, with the imprisonment of many more.

There was also the policy of Decossackization, the deportation of thousands of Cossacks due to a perceived support for the whites, many wealthy Cossacks were executed but later the executions were condemned by Lenin who said the local authorities had an "immature overenthusiasm".

Were these Justified as acts of class war needed to keep the revolution alive? Or were they unjustified and the wrong decision?

Yes, deCossackization definitely went overboard. Trotsky condemned it too, earlier than Lenin in fact, as he was commanding the Red Army and was worried that it would push many Red Cossacks over to the White camp. Which in fact it did.

For those who want to understand the role of the Cossacks in the Civil War, you really have to read Shokolov's Nobel prizewinning novels, "Quiet Flows the Don" and "the Don Comes Home to the Sea."

Of course, you also have to remember the role the Cossacks played up until 1917 as the elite Tsarist guard vs. the workers and especially vs. Jews. Most Tsarist pogroms vs. Jews involved Cossacks in one way or another.

So the ultraleft "deCossackization" policy the Bolsheviks adopted for a while was understandable albeit unfortunate, especially from the military point of view.

-M.H.-

[Revolutionair]

the ultraleft "deCossackization" policy

Could you explain to me how deCossackization was ultraleftist? (genuinely interested)

[Rafiq]

Red Terror should have started from day one, imo

[Ostrinski]

We have to shoot for class rule by whatever means are practical and pragmatic. If it helps to solidify proletarian class rule, it's a good decision. If it destabilizes proletarian class rule by inspiring a metaphysical and idealistic way of thinking, then it's a bad decision.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Zhukov had a Cossack background, so yeah De-Cossackization was a political excess, to say the least.

Rafiq was spot on about the Red Terror, though.

[A Marxist Historian]

Zhukov had a Cossack background, so yeah De-Cossackization was a political excess, to say the least.

Rafiq was spot on about the Red Terror, though.

No he wasn't, for the simple reason that the workers didn't *want* a Red Terror from Day One. It was only after the Whites started murdering workers and revolutionary leaders that workers wanted to see a Red Terror. Of course this didn't take very long at all, weeks rather than months.

DeCossackization was never killing all Cossacks or something, after all Budenny's cavalry were Red Cossacks. There were plenty of Red Cossacks.

Cossacks were forced to give up all their old Tsarist privileges vis a vis other peasants at gunpoint, and all Cossacks not in the Red Army were disarmed. Those who resisted were often shot. And Cossacks who had participated in the White Army, which was a lot, were often deported, and shot if they had been white officers.

A false, ultraleft policy, which resulted in a Cossack insurrection vs. the Bolsheviks in spring 1919, only a few months after a Cossack insurrection *against the Whites* had chased the Whites out of the Don and put the Red Cossacks in power. Trotsky was against this policy, but the party had adopted it, and he was merely the army commander after all.

Fortunately it was abandoned after a few months, to Trotsky's great relief. But the damage had been done, and you had a serious Soviet military disaster in the summer of 1919 because of it, that almost resulted in White victory.

-M.H.-

[ColonelCossack]

excuse me? err... oh i must have been in the toilet when that happened. (although ...hang on i'm not wealthy.....)
hey youngblood cossack.... have you heard about this....?

Please stop referring to me as "youngblood cossack". :sneaky:

On a more serious note, were there any cossacks who were communists/communist sympathisers, and would they also have suffered from decossackisation?

Obviously, as an M-L, I think its important to solidify worker's power.

[Omsk]

were there any cossacks who were communists/communist sympathisers
Of course,cossacks participated on both of the sides in the civil war,some cossacks deserted the white tsarist armies and the so called White Guard,and ran away to the bolsheviks,abandoning their villas and mansions,allongside their titles,becoming normal cavalrymen.The Soviet cossacks were very brave fighters,and they eventualy formed the 1st Cavalry army,the famous Budyonny being their leader.Cossacks who switched sides,and joined the revolution,abandoning their believes and traditions,didnt face charges in the decossackization.

They had an important role in defeating Denikin,and making him retreat alongside his murderers.

The famous red cossacks and cavalry men later became quite famous and succesefull people,here is a list of famous red cossacks.

Georgy Zhukov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov), Soviet military commander, famous for his role in World War II.
Grigory Kulik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Kulik), Soviet military commander
Kirill Meretskov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirill_Meretskov), Soviet military commander
Semyon Timoshenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semyon_Timoshenko), Soviet military commander
Andrei Grechko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Grechko), Soviet military commander
Semyon Krivoshein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semyon_Krivoshein), Soviet military commander
Vadim Yakovlev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Yakovlev)

And many others.


As for the Red Terror,it is a term nowdays used by rightwingers,in hopes people will forget the White Terror,the murders of countless comunists and revolutionaries in Russia and in the rest of the world.

It was simply,a fight against the enemies of the revolution and the backward Tzarist reactionaries.
People forget the Bolsheviks didnt come up with Siberia,the Tzarists did.

In fact,we should remember the White Terror,that started about 1866.
We should remember the words of Lavr Kornilov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavr_Kornilov), who during the Ice Campaign in the south of Russia said: "I give you a very cruel order: do not take prisoners! I accept responsibility for this order before God and the Russian people." He promised, "the greater the terror, the greater our victories." He vowed that the goals of his forces must be fulfilled even if it was needed "to set fire to half the country and shed the blood of three-fourths of all Russians."

However,people usually forget things like this,especially westerners.



In 1918 when the Whites controlled the Northern Territory with a population of about 400 thousand people, more than 38,000 were sent to prisons, of which about 8000 were executed while thousands more died from torture and disease


There are many casses.

An excerpt from the order of the government of Yenisei county in Irkutsk province, General. S. Rozanov said:



“Those villages whose population meets troops with arms, burn down the villages and shoot the adult males without exception. If hostages are taken in cases of resistance to government troops, shoot the hostages without mercy





In Ekaterinburg region alone, more than 25,000 people were shot or tortured to death by Kolchak's forces




On May 9, 1918, after Ataman Dutov captured Alekasandrov-Gai village, nearly 2000 men of the Red Army were buried alive




The Semenov regime in Transbaikalia was characterized by mass terror and executions. At the Adrianovki station in summer of 1919, more than 1600 people were shot


.
In Chelyabinsk, Dutov’s men executed or deported Siberian prisons over 9000 people



There was a continuation of terror in Samara and its environs in the summer of 1918. On July 6, 1918, after the dispersal of a meeting by railway workers, more than 20 executed. Of the 75 people in Samara union leaders, 54 were shot. Near Samara the suppression of peasant uprisings in 3 districts of Buguruslan county, more than 500 were executed. After the Czechs seized Simbirsk on 22 July, more than 400 were shot. In Kazan, seized by the Czechs in August, more than 1000 people were executed in less than a month. In one incident, out of 37 women arrested, they were shot and had their corpses thrown on the Volga bank. Overall, it is estimated that more than 5000 were murdered by the Czechs




One prison in Orenburg contained over 6000 people, of whom 500 were killed just during interrogations




Kolchak issued orders to raze to the ground whole villages. In a few Siberian provinces, 20,000 farms were destroyed and over 10,000 peasant houses burned down. Kolchak's regime destroyed bridges and blew up water stations




a proclamation by one of Denikin's generals incited people to "arm themselves" in order to extirpate "the evil force which lives in the hearts of Jew-communists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism)." In the small town of Fastov alone, Denikin's Volunteer Army murdered over 1500 Jews, mostly elderly, women, and children. An estimated 100-150 thousand Jews in Ukraine and southern Russia were killed in pogroms perpetrated by Denikin's forces- Hundreds of thousands of Jews were left homeless and tens of thousands became victims of serious illness


The white terror happened in Bulgaria,Russia,Finland,Greece,Hungary,Yugoslavia, Spain,Germany and many other countries.

[A Marxist Historian]

Please stop referring to me as "youngblood cossack". :sneaky:

On a more serious note, were there any cossacks who were communists/communist sympathisers, and would they also have suffered from decossackisation?

Obviously, as an M-L, I think its important to solidify worker's power.

Yes there most certainly were, and on occasion some of them suffered too, due to overly suspicious Chekists.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

Could you explain to me how deCossackization was ultraleftist? (genuinely interested)

It ws ultraleft because the idea was that *all* Cossacks, due to the police role they played under the Tsars, their role in Jewish pogroms, and the social privileges that they received for being Cossacks (larger land allotments than ordinary peasants, few or no feudal obligations to the nobility, etc., all in return for being mobilizable for police purposes) should be considered cops essentially. An ultraleft oversimplified conception.

-M.H.-

[khad]

Cossacks are still continuing the glorious tradition of hunting Jews and Muslims in the Russian south today. In the areas they control, they behave exactly like mafias, only now with state sponsorship. Many of them busted out their old Tsarist uniforms the moment the USSR fell.

[Omsk]

Comrade Khad is right,the trend of cossackism is rising,and nationalists tend to stick alonside these new cossacks,plus,the cossacks are rich,and some even have their own cossack schools.But the people will never forget the XV Cossack Cavalry Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XV_SS_Cossack_Cavalry_Corps) the traitors who fought against many communists not only in Russia,but in other areas under Nazi ocupation.I know stories from the people who saw the white guard Nazi collaborators while they were young,they remember it well,they first sang some religious songs,prayed,shouted some slogans in Russian and then went to arrest and kill communists and possible communist sympathizers.However,as soon as the partisans and the Red Army destroyed mayor fascist elements,these White Guard remains fled to the west with British help.

Scum.

[Prismane]

As most of us know, after establishing a Soviet Republic the Bolshevisks had a policy of mass terror against the upper classes, Tsarists and white supporters. This was a rational and inevitable response to the terror exercised by the White forces, who blockaded the country, collaborated with the country's enemies - all in an effort to restore the capitalist misery.

Let's just focus on the Don Cossack province during the war. During the Krasnov-led regime that was established in May 1918, an estimated 25,000 to 45,000 people were shot or hanged. When the Soviets liberated the region following the Tsaritsyn victory, the punishment of those who were guilty of such crimes was inevitable. This is what Prof. Futoryansky from Orenburg University wrote in an article about all of this (I can't post links): the White Terror was literally 25 times more bloody than what the repression exercised by Soviet forces. Any attempt to discuss "Red Terror" in isolation from the Whites is flawed.

E.Losev in his book "Mironov" shows the monstrous cruelty of the "decossackization" statistics by the Reds in the Don, with more than 1000 shot...Recall at least that in the period of the Krasnov's rule on the Don, more than 45 thousand were shot and hanged. The total number of the executions was more than half of the entire Krasnov army. A recent book estimates that Krasnov's forces shot 25 thousand... But this is still 25 times the measures taken by the Reds.


They executed an estimated 15,000 Tsarists Those executed weren't random people, but were shown to have blood on their hands, and the revolutionary forces acted accordingly during a time of a national emergency and martial law with the country under siege and occupied by its most vicous enemies.

Where did you get the figures from? Because the most authoritative book there is on this subject shows the following facts for the Cheka during 1918. The vast majority subjected to repression were Whites, former officers, and other anti-Soviet forces, as well as common criminals. These measures were natural, grassroots response: the Red Terror decree was adopted on 5 September 1918 because the the preceding 5 days, when about 2000 were executed, had been spontaneous and chaotic, with a relatively random composition of suspects. This is from a book by historian I. Ratkovsky:



Assessing the early period of Cheka in the first half of 1918, it should be noted that the Cheka at this time did not use terror as a method of political intimidation of the enemy...The total number of executions by the Cheka can be determined at about 150 to 180, of which two-thirds were for crime.

In July 1918, the Cheka shot more than 160 in and 400 in August 1918. The Cheka dealt with a large extent to criminal acts rather than political enemies. In Petrograd, the Cheka up to August 30 1918 shot 21 people, 10 of them for criminal offenses and governmental misconduct. In Pskov province, out of the 16 people shot, 7 were criminals. The majority of the executions were for criminal reasons before Sept 1 1918.

In Nizhny Novgorod, led at that time by M. Latsis, in response to the mentioned acts of terrorism, 41 were shot. Among them were 18 officers, 10 former policemen, 2 high-ranking clergymen. A few days later in the same city, 19 more were shot. Two of those sentenced to death were convicted counter-revolutionary crimes, the remainder for criminal offenses.

There were several stages of the Red Terror should be identified. The first phase includes the period from 30 August 1918 to 5 September 1918 in response to attacks on Lenin and Uritsky. In this first week, there was an uncontrolled wave of repression, during which 3000 people were executed, particularly in the provincial towns and in the frontline provinces. This period was often characterized by a random composition of victims.

The second phase occurred in the remaining days of September, after the adoption of the Red Terror decree on September 5, a more organized and regulated wave of repression. During this period, up to 2000 executions occurred.

Starting in October 1918, the system of red terror experienced a crisis. WIth victories at the front and the growth of the revolutionary movement in Europe, the need for the previous policy of suppressing counter-revolution subsided. Against this backdrop, Communist Party leaders attempted to reform the repressive policies. the main outcome of this was the redistribution of powers between the Chek and Revolutionary Tribunal. The Cheka in early 1919 were denied the right to sentencing. The county Chekas were eliminated. On 6 November 1918, an amnesty to prisoners was issued, which meant the end of the Red Terror .
There was also the policy of Decossackization, the deportation of thousands of Cossacks due to a perceived support forattacking the Bolsheviks policies on the Cossack issues. The main target the whitesThe "de-cossackization" has been the subject of a lot of anti-Soviet propaganda since the early 90s. Revisionists portray the Soviets as opposed to all Cossacks, when in fact there was Civil War among the Cossacks themselves, as Sholokhov's book illustrates, for example. What de-cossackization was about was simply the elimination of the Cossacks as a legally established military caste that ruthlessly oppressed the non-Cossack Russian peasants in the region, who composed the vast majority of the population of southern Russia. The Cossacks were to be assimilated into the rest of Russian society, which is exactly what has happened, as the people in southern Russia (Rostov, Krasnodar) are no longer divided into Cossack and non-Cossack, but are part of one Russian people.

What happened in January-February 1919 was that after massive White Terror by the Krasnov forces and the arduous battles of Tsaritsyn, the local Soviet forces moved on to punish those responsible for these crimes, targeting particularly the wealthy Cossacks that composed of the counter-revolution's base. Excesses and mistakes were committed, which were later condemned by Moscow. These repressive policies were canceled and moved toward more accommodation of the Cossacks. There's a book by historian P.Golub that you can find on the Russian web.


Were these Justified as acts of class war needed to keep the revolution alive? The consensus of authoritative scholars about the Revolution is that the Soviet forces took legitimate, morally justified steps to defend themselves against the rampage of the Whits and counter-revolutionaries.

If we look early on in the aftermath of the Revolution, we find that the Soviet state showed extraordinary mercy toward its enemies: the future White Cossack leader and later Nazi collaborator P. Krasnov was arrested in November 1917 following a failed power grab against the Soviets, and was released on a promise to stop with his anti-Soviet actions. Indeed, it was Lenin who said,

"We are accused of making arrests. Indeed, we have made arrests; today we arrested the director of the State Bank. We are accused of resorting to terrorism, but we have not resorted, and I hope will not resort, to the terrorism of the French revolutionaries who guillotined unarmed men. I hope we shall not resort to it, because we have strength on our side. When we arrested anyone we told him we would let him go if he gave us a written promise not to engage in sabotage. Such written promises have been given."

L.S Gaponenko argue that the the Red Terror was a forced measure of the working-class, aimed at protecting the country from the encroachments of its adversaries. He argues that the repression of counter-revolutionaries in fact helped to save the lives of thousands of workers, and that those executed were the organizers and managers of armed resistance.

In the preface to a later edition of the "Red Book of the Cheka", historian A.S. Velidov also wrote about what he saw as the appropriate measures of the Soviet forces,

"The question arose: was the Soviet Government to be or not to be? In such a difficult, critical situation, the Cheka was to direct repression against the organizers and active participants in the armed conspiracies and revolts. At the same time, it was granted the right to take hostages from among the former landlords, capitalists, police officers, and dignitaries...The Red Terror was a forced emergency measure of self-defense of the proletarian state, introduced in response to white terror."