So what the hell happened?

[SVeach94]

I am pleasantly surprised to see I have survived the RevLeft purges, but what exactly happened? Who got sent to the gulag, and why? More fascist infiltrators?

[The Douche]

We'll have an official statement soonish.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

they're trying to get ride of some nasty, evil guy called SVeach94 but he's pretty difficult to track down.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/statement-admins-concerning-t165865/index.html?t=165865

The only thing I know.

[Magón]

We'll have an official statement soonish.

Is that statement going to have an explanation on why some were banned too? Seems more people were banned?

[SVeach94]

they're trying to get ride of some nasty, evil guy called SVeach94 but he's pretty difficult to track down.
Never heard of him. Better get the KGB on his ass.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Never heard of him. Better get the KGB on his ass.
i'm pretty sure he runs the kgb, al qaeda, mi6 and the cia simultaneously. true badass, had revleft running scared for days

[The Douche]

Is that statement going to have an explanation on why some were banned too? Seems more people were banned?

I'm pretty sure that if the discussion around the issue can happen in a somewhat calm and collected/mature manner then more information can come out than what happened last time. But I can't say so 100%.

[Kitty_Paine]

i'm pretty sure he runs the kgb, al qaeda, mi6 and the cia simultaneously. true badass, had revleft running scared for days

And what the hell does such a badass want with RevLeft? Is there something I don't know... :blink:

[Ele'ill]

but what exactly happened?

It was Carmen Sandiego.

[#FF0000]

Some petty bullshit as always.

[hatzel]

And what the hell does such a badass want with RevLeft?

Matey wants to chat with me because I'm really cute and nice and people want to be my friend, of cooooourse. I'm really sorry for causing such strife for everybody with my irresistible appeal as a conversation partner :blushing:

I hear that New Year is coming up for yous peoples and I think everybody should make it their resolution to not be meanies and also to stop taking things so seriously. Though dedicating a resolution to it would be taking it too seriously, which is an issue...but anyway yeah let's all step back from stuff. In general. And also in lieutenant. I say this so that we can see if this has any impact on the frequency of people using the word 'purge' and 'it's like herds of murdered dissidents cast into the sea' and 'ZOMGGG CYBERPUTSCH!!!' and all that about teh interwebz. And whether threads such as this remain necessary. I will record the results - my little experiment, we might say, casual observer that I am. Very casual. Because observing too intently would be taking said observation (or the object of my observation) seriously. Problem. But basically you get the idea...

And that means everybody, ya dig?

[OHumanista]

I have SEVERE doubts about the supposedly nazi/fascist/anti-semite nature of most banned members.
The official statement only served to reinforce my conviction in this.

(*looks around paranoid kinda expecting a ban*)

[Madvillainy]

hehe nevermonmd

[Kitty_Paine]

Matey wants to chat with me because I'm really cute and nice and people want to be my friend, of cooooourse. I'm really sorry for causing such strife for everybody with my irresistible appeal as a conversation partner :blushing:

I should have known, you've always been the thorn in the ass of RevLeft... Ban him for his irresistable charm! Nah, I'm just kidding... I like your witty comments :rolleyes:

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

But what happens to te members forum?

[Comrade Samuel]

I have SEVERE doubts about the supposedly nazi/fascist/anti-semite nature of most banned members.
The official statement only served to reinforce my conviction in this.

(*looks around paranoid kinda expecting a ban*)

My thoughts exactly, I would believe the tea party is "fighting the red menace" before I'd believe a bunch of Nazis attacked us... Let's think logically now what are the odds a bunch of fascist scums haveing the intelligence to hack a forum?

[NewLeft]

lol Internet drama. Only on the internet are the nazis still a viable threat.

[hatzel]

I like your witty comments :rolleyes:

Well that's lucky because I have literally no(!!!) politics whatsoever beyond 'well yeah that thing you said but also how about I half-heartedly disagree with whatever you think and say something different, how'd ya like this angle? Coming straight out of leftfield, making ya think them fresh new thoughts, broadening our mindspheres just a little bit. Also underground French hip-hop is the only remaining revolutionary force, so drop all this labour organising stuff and pick up the mic and start spitting!'

It's a wonder I manage to vaguely understand myself sometimes...though I assure you the above is actually only a partially accurate picture of my 'approach.'

[Prometeo liberado]

Very new to this site. Now I'm just getting scared. Not really, but what did happen?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Very new to this site. Now I'm just getting scared. Not really, but what did happen?

Beyond what the Admins said we have no idea.

[JustMovement]

I think this is the event that the Khmer Rouge termed "Year 0"- the complete and uncompromising destruction of the old to pave the way for a brilliant, new, socialist dawn.

[Commissar Rykov]

I think this is the event that the Khmer Rouge termed "Year 0"- the complete and uncompromising destruction of the old to pave the way for a brilliant, new, socialist dawn.
But, but I wear glasses and I am still alive. Oh shit.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

But, but I wear glasses and I am still alive. Oh shit.

Don't worry comrade, they are coming for you.As soon as they finish relocating everyone to the jungles of OI they will come for us city slickers.lol

(btw...what were we talking about again?)

[Susurrus]

But, but I wear glasses and I am still alive. Oh shit.

GEStsLJZhzo

[hatzel]

I think this is the event that the Khmer Rouge termed "Year 0"- the complete and uncompromising destruction of the old to pave the way for a brilliant, new, socialist dawn.

Yeah, this is exactly like that time when shitloads of people died oh no wait no it's not like that at all. See my earlier post on the subject. Higher up in this thread. Not the one about my uncompromising lack of politics, the other one. That one. Yeah.

[RedAnarchist]

I think this is the event that the Khmer Rouge termed "Year 0"- the complete and uncompromising destruction of the old to pave the way for a brilliant, new, socialist dawn.

That's a great post there. By the way, which atrocity are you going to compare what happened on the forum recently to next? Maybe Godwin the whole issue, or perhaps go for something more recent, like Rwanda? Maybe you'll settle for something contemporary, like the Syrian government's killing and oppression of the Syrian people?

[black magick hustla]

That's a great post there. By the way, which atrocity are you going to compare what happened on the forum recently to next? Maybe Godwin the whole issue, or perhaps go for something more recent, like Rwanda? Maybe you'll settle for something contemporary, like the Syrian government's killing and oppression of the Syrian people?

man, you always do this. you have a hard time wrapping your head around figurative language and irony brah

[RedAnarchist]

man, you always do this. you have a hard time wrapping your head around figurative language and irony brah

No, I'm being sarcastic.

[PhoenixAsh]

Matey wants to chat with me because I'm really cute and nice and people want to be my friend, of cooooourse. I'm really sorry for causing such strife for everybody with my irresistible appeal as a conversation partner :blushing:

I hear that New Year is coming up for yous peoples and I think everybody should make it their resolution to not be meanies and also to stop taking things so seriously. Though dedicating a resolution to it would be taking it too seriously, which is an issue...but anyway yeah let's all step back from stuff. In general. And also in lieutenant. I say this so that we can see if this has any impact on the frequency of people using the word 'purge' and 'it's like herds of murdered dissidents cast into the sea' and 'ZOMGGG CYBERPUTSCH!!!' and all that about teh interwebz. And whether threads such as this remain necessary. I will record the results - my little experiment, we might say, casual observer that I am. Very casual. Because observing too intently would be taking said observation (or the object of my observation) seriously. Problem. But basically you get the idea...

And that means everybody, ya dig?

Well you know what they say....if you stare long enough into the abyss the abyss will stare back at you.

Yeah I share your sentiments. The last few days I have stared in jaw dropping amazement about the amount of drama and eventually downright hysteria which was created.

So yeah...personally speaking...

Drama to some extend every now and then is fine...it is natural and logical and inevitable in any community (hence the copious amount of soaps which polute our TV pleasure). It spices things up a bit.

But what happened is that some people, who seem to have had their own personal agenda, created drama for drama's sake. Whipping shit up until we moved from drama to hysteria. Like you say...there never ever seems a word big enough for some people to denounce others.

And that hysteria resulted in people on other places on the internet openly talking about taking DA against members here, openly sharing and gathering personal information, openly talking about spamming and trolling the community and openly discussing to bring the community down. I followed all this shit in horrified amazement even before the first time the forum went down.

And these were people who pretended to be our comrades for so long. And as soon as this happens....I do not care what your beef is with some people. I do not care how hurt you were because you were harshly treated on an internet forum. And I do not care wether you are right or wrong. As soon as you start to do that you lost all my sympathy.

And some of those people claimed they hated RevLeft for a long time. So why remain? Why all the unnecessary drama? Why not simply move on? Why the wish to fuck things up for the rest? And then the string of claims in dozens of threads in several locations on the internet about how they do not care. These simple facts makes whatever they say so intelectually dishonest. I can get you are angry. I can get you feel hurt. But what I do not get is why this manifests in destructive behaviour and action.

So this is freaking sad. Very sad. And was completely avoidable.

[citizen of industry]

Not being involved in the larger picture of internet sectarianism, not monitoring other places on the internet, etc. what happened was that the site went down for a few days and came back up with 1/3 of my "friends" list banned, with vague statements following about fascism and cyber geekery. Though the reasons may be valid and backed up with plenty of evidence, I'm surprised that you are surprised by the subsequent threads about purges, shennanigans, and shadiness, given the complete lack of transparency. Then to rub "what happened" in the face of people wondering just that.

Furthermore, I'm wondering why this thread isn't closed or trashed. A quick look at the trashcan shows me that all previous critical threads were trashed.

Also, the bit on the main page about Revleft consisting of over 10,000 leftists around the world is in need of a revision. Let's be honest now. It's like a union that inflates their numbers to make seem more appealing to potential members, more threatening to the boss, and more pressing to labor commissions, but causes problems down the road when it is actually just a handful of activists.

[Thirsty Crow]

I'm pretty sure that if the discussion around the issue can happen in a somewhat calm and collected/mature manner then more information can come out than what happened last time. But I can't say so 100%.
So you, as an admin, cannot guarantee that people will be presented with accurate information on the recent events (bans and all) even though they discuss the issue in a calm, civil and most appropriate manner?

Well, that's nice.

[Thirsty Crow]

And that hysteria resulted in people on other places on the internet openly talking about taking DA against members here, openly sharing and gathering personal information, openly talking about spamming and trolling the community and openly discussing to bring the community down.
I don't care about "bringing the community down" or the glorious subversive project of spamming and trolling.
But I'd like to know who wanted to, or did, openly share and gather personal information. Usernames, please, and evidence with it (PM is fine as well).

[Susurrus]

Actually, this whole thing is less Invasion of the Body Snatchers than They Live. There probably are horrible aliens amongst us, orchestrating plots kept secret and hidden, but when the BA lays into them with a shotgun(possibly hitting a few innocents in the process), everyone thinks they've gone insane/have an ulterior motive because no one can see what they see.

[Sasha]

That's definitively part of the problem, often a user decides to go down "suicide by admin" spamming the board with personal information etc etc, we ban him and move all their posts to the hidden trash because of the content of their posts making it seem to the other users they got banned for nothing.
Kleber for example made 30+ duplicate threads before he was banned of which most of you who weren't online when it happend see no trace.
Deconreflex edited insults into posts of users he disagreed with, after I all restored them no trace except for admins remains.
The hidden trash got hundreds of posts/threads like those.

[JustMovement]

Yeah, this is exactly like that time when shitloads of people died oh no wait no it's not like that at all. See my earlier post on the subject. Higher up in this thread. Not the one about my uncompromising lack of politics, the other one. That one. Yeah.
Look,yeah Im not passing any judgements, political or otherwise, im just saying that I wouldnt want to be caught wearing glasses around here, thats all.

That jungle is looking awfully underworked.

[piet11111]

It would have been nice if we had a better announcement that actually gave some info about why the site was temporarily down.

I had to go to one of those other sites to get information about what was going down.

I even thought for a moment the american government had this site shut down.

[SVeach94]

I even thought for a moment the american government had this site shut down.
:lol:

Hate to break it to you, but this forum and its users are pretty much irrelevant to American politics. If the US government thought you guys had an actual chance of starting a socialist revolution, this site would be taken down and its owner would be arrested.

[Susurrus]

:lol:

Hate to break it to you, but this forum and its users are pretty much irrelevant to American politics. If the US government thought you guys had an actual chance of starting a socialist revolution, this site would be taken down and its owner would be arrested.

I began to type "but he's german...", then I remembered who we're dealing with here.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Trotskyists, man. The fifth column is everywhere.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

All I know is that some gamer clique around SArtesian, Die Rote Fahne, Red Dave and a bunch of other people who mostly happened to be Trots were banned for being a clique secret fascist gamer hackers or something to that effect, and that's all we heard. It sounds like a load of paranoia. The whole situation seems really silly and this forum lost a lot of its best members ... I hope I don't get banned for saying that but it's true.

It's also a bunch of stupid drama. The fucking real life revolution is going on all over the world and some internet geeks are worried about cyber-fascist-troll-trotskyist gamers takin down their webz. Who cares? The only real loss is the aforementioned banning of posters who contributed quite a lot of good material to this forum.

[Thirsty Crow]

OK, after the admin team decided to close the non-political thread about the onslaught of bans concerning the recent shitstorm, I think we can take a look at the official admin action thread which lays bare the mechanism of this internal sabotage.

Banned Broletariat, Red Dave, and S.Artesian for security reasons.9th December

Banned ZeroNowhere. Security reasons. 10th December

Banned for breach of forum rules revleft
ZeroNowhere
xUb3rn00dlEx
rosario
socialismorbarbarism
11th December (Zero got his ass banned twice, how great can you get)

Banned Iraultzaile Ezkerreko personal attack. (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2321159&postcount=5)
13th December (this one was done apparently by CotR; I can't access the site which provides evidence for this gruesome personal attack)

Banned Die Rote Fahne -Trolling
14th December (now we shift back to the mysterious Board Administration profile)

Banned the following members for breach of forum rules.

Kontrrazvedka
Battlecat
SocialistJustin
CleverTitle
Zanthorus
wunderbar
graymouser
Jose Gracchus
14th December

removed Ravachol as dutch/global moderator, replaced them with hindsight20/20

Banned Kléber for flaming, spaming.

Yeah, the evidence is there, right before your eyes. I'm quite sure that the famous pronunciamento from the administration will clear things up and all will be well. Bloody hell.


All I know is that some gamer clique around SArtesian, Die Rote Fahne, Red Dave and a bunch of other people who mostly happened to be Trots were banned for being a clique secret fascist hackers or something to that effect. It sounds like a load of paranoia. The whole situation seems really silly and this forum lost a lot of its best members. I hope I don't get banned for saying that but it's true.
As you can see in the admin actions thread (probably the only thing you can clearly see there), this was not the case (scroll down to 11th December): http://www.revleft.com/vb/admin-actions-ii-t148828/index18.html

[DarkPast]

All I know is that some gamer clique around SArtesian, Die Rote Fahne, Red Dave and a bunch of other people who mostly happened to be Trots were banned for being a clique secret fascist hackers or something to that effect. It sounds like a load of paranoia. The whole situation seems really silly and this forum lost a lot of its best members. I hope I don't get banned for saying that but it's true.

Trotskyists, fascists, saboteurs... just add revisionists and kulaks and you've got yourself a textbook Stalinist purge.


EDIT: Just noticed a whole bunch of infractions was removed from the Warning Point Log topic.

[RedAnarchist]

EDIT: Just noticed a whole bunch of infractions was removed from the Warning Point Log topic.

Is this about the three I reversed? I did so because they were responding to a conversation I started in the Unfair Restrictions thread.

[Magón]

So why was Tablo banned? I see no reason in the Admin Action thread, as to why he was banned, or should be like the BA has done with the others. He was a good poster, and seems to have just been banned for no reason other than to ban another member.

[Thirsty Crow]

I began to type "but he's german...", then I remembered who we're dealing with here.
Oh really? So you think that the fact Malte's German necessarily implies that this forum is hosted in Germany?

[Kitty_Paine]

'well yeah that thing you said but also how about I half-heartedly disagree with whatever you think and say something different, how'd ya like this angle? Coming straight out of leftfield, making ya think them fresh new thoughts, broadening our mindspheres just a little bit. Also underground French hip-hop is the only remaining revolutionary force, so drop all this labour organising stuff and pick up the mic and start spitting!'

Please tell me you just spit that whole thing brooklyn style, because that's totally how I pictured it :lol:


Very new to this site. Now I'm just getting scared. Not really, but what did happen?

Choose your next words carefully, jbeard. They may be your last as a member.

:rolleyes:

[El Louton]

Woah I am surprised at some of the names! Rosario? Red Dave?

Although I am glad that knob Franz something has gone. What a dick.

[Sasha]

Sigh, care also to look up how many mod actions ravachol performed while you are in the logs, none to be exact, since wantedman and deconreflex are gone we needed an active dutch mod besides me, no conspiracy.
Everyone on your list except sartesian, reddave and broletariat (funny you omitted all the fash gamers) got banned after they decided to do the "suicide by admin" routine, if you have problems with their bans you should take it up with them, they decided to go out in a blaze of narcissist trolling.

[Tim Cornelis]

Purge victims:

Die Rohte Fahne
ZeroNowhere
thefinalmarch
RedDave
Smyg
Kontrrazvedka
Khlib
Agent Equality
mrmikhail
Broletariat

Given the BA's comments that the down time of this site was due to a fascist conspiracy, while many of these posters are committed users who never hinted to being fascist it seems like a purge along the lines of historical revisionism (yeah, too dramatic, it's just internet). But, BA also said


"members who already had a bone to pick with the BA or who, whether justly or unjustly, feel threatened jump to conclusions of sectarian or personal persecution. These members will dramatically leave the forums and start attacking revleft, operating on little or no information and misinformation. They will jump to conclusions based on cryptic PMs or hanging on a few words exchanged that were completely unrelated ... Sadly, this happened also in this latest situation, resulting in the ban of several veteran users."

The above "veteran users" were banned for talking shit (may include wrong ones), it seems, since they were talking about personal persecution and purging of revleft on another forum.

In other words, they were banned for gossiping. A little over the top, innit? But "not everyone banned right now will stay banned."

So that's what happened to those users. (hope I didn't break no rules).

[Thirsty Crow]

I chose to omit the fascist gamers because I think there's not an ounce of doubt about that move, in case you haven't noticed.
And don't get me wrong, the whole purpose of this exercise was to show just how poorly does the admin team deal with the issue of clearly showing why certain actions were undertaken. Not even a line on ravachol's poor modding activities (how fucking hard is to write that?)
I can't see any evidence here. By virtue of that fact, users are left with only one option: keep their mouth shut and accept any explanation from the admin team.

Now, I'm not among those who argue for a "democratic" administration of a board like this. But these are serious issues with something that shouldn't come into question - transparency of administration (and underlying board rules).

[Azraella]

Although I am glad that knob Franz something has gone. What a dick.

Franz isn't banned. Franz was suspended if I remember correctly.

[El Louton]

Franz isn't banned. Franz was suspended if I remember correctly.

great.

[Impulse97]

I have SEVERE doubts about the supposedly nazi/fascist/anti-semite nature of most banned members.
The official statement only served to reinforce my conviction in this.

(*looks around paranoid kinda expecting a ban*)

I do too. Even if some users did flame/troll I highly doubt, Zero, Smyg, RD, Broletariat and Rote D.F. where among those who did. All this just reeks of purges. Find a few troublemakers and use them as a cover to ban those who you disagree with. It goes to show that the Stalinists can't even run a web forum without it going to shit in under a decade.

If any admin can prove otherwise, I'd love to see all of the proof. Quit all of this smoke and mirrors shit. Let the board see the posts and supposed transgressions by the banned members. Until, you do, I see absolutely no reason to accept what ever story you hand to us.

(Perhaps, this is overly dramatic, but If we aren't going to tolerate shit like this from IRL authority figures, why are we accepting it on the internet, simply because its the internet?)



All I know is that some gamer clique around SArtesian, Die Rote Fahne, Red Dave and a bunch of other people who mostly happened to be Trots were banned for being a clique secret fascist gamer hackers or something to that effect, and that's all we heard. It sounds like a load of paranoia. The whole situation seems really silly and this forum lost a lot of its best members ... I hope I don't get banned for saying that but it's true.

It's also a bunch of stupid drama. The fucking real life revolution is going on all over the world and some internet geeks are worried about cyber-fascist-troll-trotskyist gamers takin down their webz. Who cares? The only real loss is the aforementioned banning of posters who contributed quite a lot of good material to this forum.

[Steve_j]

I cant be arsed to post here very often for various reasons, that aside, my 2 pence is that with the current ban fest in action, a lot of revlefts most valuable contributors are no more. For those that care, simply search the usernames of many of those banned and you will find them on another forum. If your looking for answers get both sides of the story and form your opinion from there.

[Susurrus]

Oh really? So you think that the fact Malte's German necessarily implies that this forum is hosted in Germany?

No, but I was responding to the "and arrest the owner" part.

[Comrade Gwydion]

There's just one question:
I'm not a tech-geek, but according to the 'accused' a Ddos-attack would've
a) caused revleft to SLOW down before shutting down,
b) caused a 404-error instead of a message
Neither of wich happened.

So, is my knowledge about ddos-attacks false, or was there no ddos-attack at all?

[Sasha]

There where both ddos and actual hacking attemps, we have cloud hosting so are nearly impossible to actually crash with a ddos but it will run up our server costs pretty fast making the site to. expensive to retain.
so closing down the site was both to give the tech time and space to protect against the hacking and to prevent the server costs exploding because of the ddos.
There are more than one ways to bring down a site

[A Marxist Historian]

My thoughts exactly, I would believe the tea party is "fighting the red menace" before I'd believe a bunch of Nazis attacked us... Let's think logically now what are the odds a bunch of fascist scums haveing the intelligence to hack a forum?

Asked as a abstract question, I'd have to say you're wrong. There are plenty of fascist scum who have the intelligence to hack a forum.

They have a very large Internet presence, whatever they've got in the real world, and there is no reason whatsoever not to think that there are plenty of them with hacking skills, and plenty of them who would be delighted to destroy Revleft.

-M.H.-

[hatzel]

It goes to show that the Stalinists can't even run a web forum without it going to shit in under a decade.

I never know what the prevailing narrative is. One minute the ML's and MLM's and their ilk are getting banned left right and centre and crying about how the BA is all anti-Stalin and victimising them for their big Stalin love, and the next minute the board is run by Stalinists. I just don't know who to believe any more...does the BA love Stalin...or hate him? Or what's going on here? Nobody knows...nobody...not one single solitary body...

[JustMovement]

Stalin knows whats going on...

[A Marxist Historian]

All I know is that some gamer clique around SArtesian, Die Rote Fahne, Red Dave and a bunch of other people who mostly happened to be Trots were banned for being a clique secret fascist gamer hackers or something to that effect, and that's all we heard. It sounds like a load of paranoia. The whole situation seems really silly and this forum lost a lot of its best members ... I hope I don't get banned for saying that but it's true.

It's also a bunch of stupid drama. The fucking real life revolution is going on all over the world and some internet geeks are worried about cyber-fascist-troll-trotskyist gamers takin down their webz. Who cares? The only real loss is the aforementioned banning of posters who contributed quite a lot of good material to this forum.

SCM is dead right that there's a whole lot more important things going on in the world than this little Internet drama. But I gotta say...

Well, Artesian et.al. promptly created their own second rate copy of Revleft, imitating it in every conceivable way except one, namely their policy on bannings and whatnot.

And, as their first act to demonstrate how tolerant & democratic they were and how superior to Revleft they are in every way, they banned me, based on absolutely nothing except that Artesian doesn't like my politics. Hell, they haven't even bothered to answer my E-mail as to why I was banned!

Artesian's "explanation" on the forum I had posted to there as to why I was banned consists of a systematic misrepresentation of my political position on a whole string of issues, combined in another posting with a particularly laughable claim that I have engaged in "historical inaccuracies," given that a lot of his claims aren't even accurate in his own terms, but represent slovenly ignorance of my (and the Spartacists) actual political positions.

This has naturally decreased my sympathy for them remarkably. Hey, last month when Artesian got censured in one forum for one of his postings I spoke up in his defense! Silly me I guess, doing things on the basis of principle instead of the mood I'm in before I've had my coffee.

Anyway, rant over, shall we all get back to more interesting things?

-M.H.-

[Impulse97]

I cant be arsed to post here very often for various reasons, that aside, my 2 pence is that with the current ban fest in action, a lot of revlefts most valuable contributors are no more. For those that care, simply search the usernames of many of those banned and you will find them on another forum. If your looking for answers get both sides of the story and form your opinion from there.

That forum would be RedMarx, btw. Although, Lennists should not expect a warm welcome or even a welcome at all for that matter.


I never know what the prevailing narrative is. One minute the ML's and MLM's and their ilk are getting banned left right and centre and crying about how the BA is all anti-Stalin and victimizing them for their big Stalin love, and the next minute the board is run by Stalinists. I just don't know who to believe any more...does the BA love Stalin...or hate him? Or what's going on here? Nobody knows...nobody...not one single solitary body...

Yea, that line was a blatant jab, but as the old saying goes, power corrupts. Shit, take JVS himself, he started out as sensible and rational as any Communist and just look at what he turned into once in power.

Granted, this clusterfuck isn't on the same scale, but it's roots seem to be one and the same. The purple and red starts going to their heads.

[Geiseric]

I'm more concerned with the principle of the situation, that S. Artesan and RED DAVE got banned while not really doing anything except starting a forum (That to my knowlege includes them and a few friends who don't like stalinists or spartacists, whatever I don't really care). If anything their forum bans capitalists and fascists from the get go, which i'm not too opposed to.

However their banning (along with probably a half dozen other peoples) is completely different from the forum game things since I know firsthand that they never played any forum games. mrmakhail is the only one who really did.

Anyways, this whole situation made the forum lose some of its best posters, who have alot of experience that most people don't have firsthand. I'm opposed to banning anybody unless they digress the conversations and make most topics go off topic by saying something dumb and totally messing up a thread by forcing somebody to point out their obvious mistakes in logic and/or common sense.

Well at least in the big picture this forum as well as the entire internet doesn't matter in the big picture, technology only exasperates existing problems. I just wish it didn't come to this, whatever dumb arguement started these bannings.

I know for sure that RED DAVE, S. Artesan, mrmakhail, and most of the other people are not nazis though, almost 100 percent sure that they're not nazis. If the admins want this forum to prosper and grow and have people go on, I wouldn't repeat the purges.

[citizen of industry]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mXOJsfJyd74/ScjSQKQPzEI/AAAAAAAAB9k/exRaY6poqsE/s400/hitler_stalin.gif

[citizen of industry]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sZiU0EONLgU/S0MXEZ28K1I/AAAAAAAAACg/aGPru8nZ6aw/s400/Slansky_cartoon_kresba%5B1%5D.jpg

[citizen of industry]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/340/6/f/trotsky__s_assassination_by_neopren-d34cbm9.jpg

[Geiseric]

I would've put those into one post... just for the sake of neatness.

[hatzel]

Well, Artesian et.al. promptly created their own second rate copy of Revleft, imitating it in every conceivable way except one, namely their policy on bannings and whatnot.

That forum's been up for months. Whilst its membership swelled during the downtime, and it remains (almost?) entirely populated by (former) RevLefters, it wasn't created as a response to recent events. Nor is it an imitation of RevLeft, what with RevLeft being a broadly inclusive pan-leftist discussion forum, with that forum catering to a specific ideology, much like a political organisation may (which explains why you weren't welcomed with open arms). For me personally, this makes RevLeft infinitely more desirable, though others would surely prefer their more concise range of ideas. Each to their own. But the point is that claiming that that site is an imitation of this one is misleading.

Not that there's any real reason to talk about other sites...

[citizen of industry]

I'd just like to take a quick break from all this political and theoretical discussion to say "buy Tipalet (TM)" ON SALE NOW!!

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3226/2715556075_a9d6b07420.jpg

[TheGodlessUtopian]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mXOJsfJyd74/ScjSQKQPzEI/AAAAAAAAB9k/exRaY6poqsE/s400/hitler_stalin.gif

For the record, I thoroughly despise this picture as it has nothing to do with politics but rather to show through an old cartoon narrative that two ideologies are working together.The implication is that such a union is negative because it is represented by homosexual marriage.

[citizen of industry]

I would've put those into one post... just for the sake of neatness.

"I agree", "Good point", "Hear, Hear"

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I'd just like to take a quick break from all this political and theoretical discussion to say "buy Tipalet (TM)" ON SALE NOW!!

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3226/2715556075_a9d6b07420.jpg

Now a chauvinist one?

You have some poor taste in pictures.

[o well this is ok I guess]

I'd just like to take a quick break from all this political and theoretical discussion to say "buy Tipalet (TM)" ON SALE NOW!!

I only smoke American Spirits.

[A Marxist Historian]

I'm more concerned with the principle of the situation, that S. Artesan and RED DAVE got banned while not really doing anything except starting a forum (That to my knowlege includes them and a few friends who don't like stalinists or spartacists, whatever I don't really care). If anything their forum bans capitalists and fascists from the get go, which i'm not too opposed to.

The alternative forum claims to be just a forum for ultralefts, but looks exactly like Revleft with just about exactly the same forum sructure and names etc., which is why I call it a second-rate Revleft. They can't seem to make up their mind what they want. Some of the moderators want to replace Revleft or something, some want to have their own intolerant little clique banning everyone they disagree with.

They had a really amusing discussion about whether or not to ban Trotskyists, complicated by the fact that they leaped on this affair to invite a lot of disgruntled alleged Trotskyists to climb aboard.

I think the best way to sum up the policy they've adopted is that if you are actually a Trotskyist who advocates the kind of things that Trotsky himself advocated, like me, you get banned, but pseudo-Trotskyists are cool.


However their banning (along with probably a half dozen other peoples) is completely different from the forum game things since I know firsthand that they never played any forum games. mrmakhail is the only one who really did.

Well, if Artesian et. al. were banned simply for starting another forum that's pretty dubious and small-minded. And if Artesian were banned merely for being an asshole, which he certainly is, likewise. He ain't the only one around.

Claims have been made that there were stronger reasons, we shall have to wait and see. Thus for example there was a very serious allegation made against Red Dave, which needs to be proven or should be withdrawn.

I think the consensus in this thread that more transparency is needed about all this is correct. Foir the health of Revleft if nothing else.

-M.H.-


Anyways, this whole situation made the forum lose some of its best posters, who have alot of experience that most people don't have firsthand. I'm opposed to banning anybody unless they digress the conversations and make most topics go off topic by saying something dumb and totally messing up a thread by forcing somebody to point out their obvious mistakes in logic and/or common sense.

Well at least in the big picture this forum as well as the entire internet doesn't matter in the big picture, technology only exasperates existing problems. I just wish it didn't come to this, whatever dumb arguement started these bannings.

I know for sure that RED DAVE, S. Artesan, mrmakhail, and most of the other people are not nazis though, almost 100 percent sure that they're not nazis. If the admins want this forum to prosper and grow and have people go on, I wouldn't repeat the purges.

[PhoenixAsh]

what allegation that was made against RedDave are you talking about specifically??

[RedGrunt]

removed persons name(?) on the revleft facebook page(unofficial) was saying Dave was a cop.

[Revolutionair]

Red Dave was a fascist??? :scared:

[PhoenixAsh]

(name editted out) on the revleft facebook page(unofficial) was saying Dave was a cop.

No real names on this site please.

So why should we retract this here?

It is not shared here. It is not mentioned here. A facebook user making a personal statement on an unofficial site this is not really something which can be attributed to this board. On this board this would not be allowed.

[PhoenixAsh]

Red Dave was a fascist??? :scared:

I hardly think he is. He is many things but I think nobody here believes he is a fascist. This is also not the reason for his ban.

Two seperate issues coincided. He is banned for board security reasons. Not for being a fascist.

[Zealot]

When no one can find the facts, blame it on the "Stalinists". Some of you people are as bad as the fucking "God-did-it" god of the gaps theorists.

[hatzel]

When no one can find the facts, blame it on the "Stalinists". Some of you people are as bad as the fucking "God-did-it" god of the gaps theorists.

What on the god of the gap's green Earth are you talking about? :confused:

[Zealot]

What on the god of the gap's green Earth are you talking about? :confused:

If it isn't already obvious, people ignorant of what really happened are trying to devolve this incident to the point of a Stalinist plot to purge the forum of Trotskyists and others. And this is essentially a god of the gaps argument.

[Thirsty Crow]

Well, Artesian et.al. promptly created their own second rate copy of Revleft, imitating it in every conceivable way except one, namely their policy on bannings and whatnot.Man, where to start. I'd advise you to get your facts straight, but that'd probably be futile.
Redmarx was formed months prior to this shitstorm. It wasn't created as an attempt at mimicking revleft, on the contarry, it was created because of perceived problems with a forum dedicated to all who proclaim themselves to be part of a revolutionary left.
It wasn't created on the initiative of S.Artesian, but Broletariat.


And, as their first act to demonstrate how tolerant & democratic they were and how superior to Revleft they are in every way, they banned me, based on absolutely nothing except that Artesian doesn't like my politics. Hell, they haven't even bothered to answer my E-mail as to why I was banned!Well, I'd suggest that no sane person would argue that China represents a non-capitalist society, but I don't particularly care for your butthurt.
You're more than welcome to correct me on this issue.


Red Dave was a fascist??? :scared:
Yeah, a fascist, a cop and Batman.

[PhoenixAsh]

Personally....I was banned there too.

I was first banned without ever making a single post while registring under my RevLeft tag. This didn't really go noticed because I didn't get any heads up...simply a message saying that my user name and/or password were incorrect.

So I reregistered thinking something had gone wrong.

My initial post was in the off topic thread to an OP who was bragging about having posted personal information on here. My statement was simple: Never cool no matter what your gripes are.

I got banned. My post got editted into something different. No reason was given.

So yeah...I created a new user account...since there were no forum rules at the time there which pohibited the creation of socks.

So I asked why my account was banned, why my post was deleted. That account was promnptly banned to. The username changed and the BA made several posts under it all over the form.

My third account lasted a little bit longer and I did manage to engage in some conversation. During which posts were editted and changed. Posts were deleted and falsely quoted by BA members to make it appear if I had said something completely different.

And...well..this continued for a while until I got IP banned.

None of these accounts by the way did I not identify myselfs. I always made it perfectly clear whom I was. So they weren't exactly socks.

Now had I been rude, abrasive or insulting...I would have understood. But I was none of these things I simply requested to know why they did this, asked if they could quit it and stated I wanted to participate in the debates but simply wanted to know first if the BA would continue to edit my posts since this is not constructive in a forum supposedly dedicated to learn and exchange knowledge. In a respectable environment no less. So yeah....

So this kind of speaks for itself. Such behaviour is abhorrent. And Artesian defended these policies by the BA to the teeth. Red Dave did as well. As did countless others. Some of which the loudest ones to yell here that the board has no democracy and has been under Stalinist repression methods.

The hypocracy of these users is not lost on me. And so is the fact that this means that most of their arguments and claims here were completely and utterly dishonest and in actual fact only served to cater thier own agenda.

[workersadvocate]

Petty bourgeois left sectarian warfare online.
The working class is wise enough not to give it the time of day.

[A Marxist Historian]

Man, where to start. I'd advise you to get your facts straight, but that'd probably be futile.
Redmarx was formed months prior to this shitstorm. It wasn't created as an attempt at mimicking revleft, on the contarry, it was created because of perceived problems with a forum dedicated to all who proclaim themselves to be part of a revolutionary left.
It wasn't created on the initiative of S.Artesian, but Broletariat...


OK fine, it was started months prior, as I already acknowledged. A natural mistake, as it sure as hell looks like an attempt at mimicking revleft to the casual viewer, right down to the tiniest details. Exactly like Revleft except limited to certain leftists and not others.

-M.H.-

[OHumanista]

I do too. Even if some users did flame/troll I highly doubt, Zero, Smyg, RD, Broletariat and Rote D.F. where among those who did. All this just reeks of purges. Find a few troublemakers and use them as a cover to ban those who you disagree with. It goes to show that the Stalinists can't even run a web forum without it going to shit in under a decade.

If any admin can prove otherwise, I'd love to see all of the proof. Quit all of this smoke and mirrors shit. Let the board see the posts and supposed transgressions by the banned members. Until, you do, I see absolutely no reason to accept what ever story you hand to us.

(Perhaps, this is overly dramatic, but If we aren't going to tolerate shit like this from IRL authority figures, why are we accepting it on the internet, simply because its the internet?)

I agree with absolutely everything you've said. It's not about some conspiracy theory. It's about a huge abuse of authority that went one unopposed on this site.
Sure I can just go with "oh this is just a site". But frankly it's a lot less appealing, interesting and fun site to be in. Why ? Because some of the best members are banned because other people didn't like them.

[PhoenixAsh]

The fact of the matter is there are plenty of people who disagree with the BA or mods left on the board. There are plenty of people who oppose the BA but choose to do so in a constuctive and civilised manner. And there are plenty of posters left who are general assholes. None of these is a reason to be banned and that is proven by the fact that there are still so many left who do this. So this sentiment of purges is just hyperbole.


Now...this time the BA is a Stalinist clique. Not so long ago the MLs were crying they were being vicitimised by an Anarchist/Trotskyist conspiracy by the BA. And before that the BA was accused by the Maoists of prosecuting their tendency because they were all liberal scum. And before that the BA was totally dissing the Anachists. And before that the BA....bla, bla, bla

Cut the bullshit. The BA is always accussed of some conspiracy or another whenever a high profile member gets him or herself banned.

The BA is composed of multi tendencies. There is no tendency conspiracy here. The board is a pan revolutionary left forum where almost all tendencies in the revolutionary left are accepted and welcome to post.

[dodger]

Petty bourgeois left sectarian warfare online.
The working class is wise enough not to give it the time of day.

Oh dear....now that did make me a chuckle....Workersadvocate......that at least brought some festive cheer....thanks.

[piet11111]

:lol:

Hate to break it to you, but this forum and its users are pretty much irrelevant to American politics. If the US government thought you guys had an actual chance of starting a socialist revolution, this site would be taken down and its owner would be arrested.

I did say that i only thought so for a moment.

Because if they wanted to stop leftists from communicating they get better results by taking down sites like facebook/hyves/twitter and even youtube.
Because even on the left revleft is insignificant because its not a political party but just a message board.

So admins next time please give us an informative message to tell whats going on ok ?

[R_P_A_S]

I am pleasantly surprised to see I have survived the RevLeft purges, but what exactly happened? Who got sent to the gulag, and why? More fascist infiltrators?

LMAO!! thank you! this made my laugh too much

[NewLeft]

I survived the great purge of 2011!! We should put that on a shirt.

[El Louton]

I survived the great purge of 2011!! We should put that on a shirt.

or not. As that shirt will be made by sweatshop workers who are product of capitalism. BOOM!

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I survived the great purge of 2011!! We should put that on a shirt.

Put that as your user title? I already saw another user do the same.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

Purge victims:

Die Rohte Fahne
ZeroNowhere
thefinalmarch
RedDave
Smyg
Kontrrazvedka
Khlib
Agent Equality
mrmikhail
Broletariat

Given the BA's comments that the down time of this site was due to a fascist conspiracy, while many of these posters are committed users who never hinted to being fascist it seems like a purge along the lines of historical revisionism (yeah, too dramatic, it's just internet). But, BA also said



The above "veteran users" were banned for talking shit (may include wrong ones), it seems, since they were talking about personal persecution and purging of revleft on another forum.

In other words, they were banned for gossiping. A little over the top, innit? But "not everyone banned right now will stay banned."

So that's what happened to those users. (hope I didn't break no rules).

Alright, as for Smyg, I mentioned this to him on facebook.

I've read all of this and I still have absolutely no clue what's going on.

[Tim Cornelis]

For the record, I thoroughly despise this picture as it has nothing to do with politics but rather to show through an old cartoon narrative that two ideologies are working together.The implication is that such a union is negative because it is represented by homosexual marriage.

I don't think this is meant as homophobic. It demonstrates that Hitler and Stalin actually are aligned, while they purport to be enemies, sybolised by marriage. It does not explicitly denounce the cooperation in crushing Poland, but it does so implicitly by having two (supposed) arch enemies unite in the most unifying union in existence: marriage. So it does not demonstrate it is "negative" per se. You can't really symbolise this without a "homosexual" marriage Also, Stalin is dressed as a woman, so it's not even a homosexual marriage at all.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I don't think this is meant as homophobic. It demonstrates that Hitler and Stalin actually are aligned, while they purport to be enemies, sybolised by marriage. It does not explicitly denounce the cooperation in crushing Poland, but it does so implicitly by having two (supposed) arch enemies unite in the most unifying union in existence: marriage. So it does not demonstrate it is "negative" per se. You can't really symbolise this without a "homosexual" marriage Also, Stalin is dressed as a woman, so it's not even a homosexual marriage at all.

No matter how I analyze it I can only see such a picture as Queerphobic.I really do not care how Stalin is dressed as I can easily see that as a different kind of bigotry.When I imagine what the original artist had in mind in drawing such a cartoon I can only envision negative stereotypes and connotations.

As we are not going to agree here I see no point in continuing this discussion.Have a good day. :)

[Comrade Samuel]

Asked as a abstract question, I'd have to say you're wrong. There are plenty of fascist scum who have the intelligence to hack a forum.

They have a very large Internet presence, whatever they've got in the real world, and there is no reason whatsoever not to think that there are plenty of them with hacking skills, and plenty of them who would be delighted to destroy Revleft.

-M.H.-

Well if you want to take jokes seriously and make us all afraid of fascists...of coarse there are some out there and there's got to be at least few who can hack but if they really wanted to accomplish any real goals political or otherwise I wouldent suggest attacking a fourm dedicated to an idiology that is equally bad in the eyes of the American people and as for the "large Internet presence" no matter how many hateful idiots abuse they're freedom of speech at rallies in real life There will also be a bunch of confused kids who go around on the Internet claiming to be Nazis

Yes I insult there intelligence and yes they are a viable threat but we can't get have irrational fears of them and just go around banning People and blaming everything on who we suspect of being a fascist/Nazi.

There is a name for people who like to blow small issues and problems out of proportion and they are called fox news.

[Madvillainy]

Personally....I was banned there too.

The hypocracy of these users is not lost on me. And so is the fact that this means that most of their arguments and claims here were completely and utterly dishonest and in actual fact only served to cater thier own agenda.

holy shit ur a moron. you were banned for being a spineless fuckin asskisser. they dont allow members of the revleft ba on the site, simple as that. u had no intention of bein a productive member you were just bein a shit stirring asshole as usual.

[Sasha]

Good sir Pot may I introduce you to mister kettle, he wants to discuss your taint with you.

[Madvillainy]

Good sir Pot may I introduce you to mister kettle, he wants to discuss your taint with you.

dude u supported the un intervention in libya. ur scum. how come the revleft mods/admins have no fuckin politics whatsoever?

[Sasha]

Mister strawman may I recommend you for your excellent choice of red herring...

[Madvillainy]

its ok ur tough anti fascist warrior bullshit just about manages to mask ur liberal pro war politics.

[Os Cangaceiros]

first they came for the RAANistas, and I said nothing...
then they came for bailey-187, and I said nothing...
then they came for the ulta-leftists, and I said nothing...

[Geiseric]

Lol i go on revleft for lulz like this these days, things have gone down shit creek since I joined. Maybe i'll check if the 4th international has a discussion board...

[Le Libérer]

holy shit ur a moron. you were banned for being a spineless fuckin asskisser. they dont allow members of the revleft ba on the site, simple as that. u had no intention of bein a productive member you were just bein a shit stirring asshole as usual.

He wasnt a member of the BA at the time he was banned.

One more personal attack, and its an infraction.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Lol i go on revleft for lulz like this these days, things have gone down shit creek since I joined. Maybe i'll check if the 4th international has a discussion board...

I don't why people get so worked up about a message board, honestly. Although I guess it's partly because of the subject matter, that can't explain it all, though, I've just about seen people threatening to find and stab their debate opponents in internet discussions about what the best flavor of ice cream is.

Anonymous political discussion really brings out the worst in people, that's why I love this site.

[Madvillainy]

He wasnt a member of the BA at the time he was banned.


he may as well have been.

[Le Libérer]

he may as well have been.

No not as well have been. Either he was banned for being BA or he wasnt. Obviously he wasnt BA so he was banned for another reason.

Still just making the shit up as you go eh?

[Ele'ill]

I don't why people get so worked up about a message board, honestly. Although I guess it's partly because of the subject matter, that can't explain it all, though, I've just about seen people threatening to find and stab their debate opponents in internet discussions about what the best flavor of ice cream is.

Anonymous political discussion really brings out the worst in people, that's why I love this site.


Yup. It gets way too serious way too fast because of anonymity and a break down in realistic real world social interaction/communication.



Edit: Vanilla ice cream is best.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Yup. It gets way too serious way too fast because of anonymity and a break down in realistic real world social interaction/communication. .

I think it also has to do with one party feeling as though they have been personally insulted by another party.When personal thoughts and emotions come into play things can get heated very quickly.

[Madvillainy]

Still just making the shit up as you go eh?

yea pretty much. he was banned for being a bootlicker, my mistake.

[Sasha]

its ok ur tough anti fascist warrior bullshit just about manages to mask ur liberal pro war politics.

What a eloquent expose, pulitzer quality my dear...

[Prometeo liberado]

ok now it's becoming clear! I was wondering why the site went down. I thought I was I woke up in an "education" camp on accident. Kinda like a youth hostel but without the green. hmmm.....

[SVeach94]

I find it amusing that a revolutionary website, founded specifically to organize and unite the left, has split along ideological grounds and administrator actions. Strange how the internet imitates real life.

Hint: One of the biggest reasons the far left is irrelevant is because you debate each other over whether or not workers should wear pink shirts or blue shirts at union meetings instead of putting aside your difference to fight your common enemy (capitalism).

[Che a chara]

Petty, vindictive pish

[Ele'ill]

I find it amusing that a revolutionary website, founded specifically to organize and unite the left, has split along ideological grounds and administrator actions. Strange how the internet imitates real life.

Hint: One of the biggest reasons the far left is irrelevant is because you debate each other over whether or not workers should wear pink shirts or blue shirts at union meetings instead of putting aside your difference to fight your common enemy (capitalism).

Meanwhile in real life...

[PhoenixAsh]

yea pretty much. he was banned for being a bootlicker, my mistake.

Ok. So what you are telling me here that my presumed behaviour on another forum entirely excluded me from the right to post on that forum?

Ok, I will run with this sentiment and then take this to its logical conclusion. Why then are you angry RedDave and the rest are banned here? I think this is pretty much acceptable as a debate-ender. Since this kind of reasoning you portray here basically states they were rightly banned for their behaviour and posts on RM.

An argument which by the way is being dishonestly used on RM....with several members who are now banned stating they find it unacceptable that their behaviour or posts on RM should or could serve as a bannable offense here.

So this is two faced arguing. Apparantly civil conduct is something others should show them but is not something they should or have to show others.

Now there is a huge difference by the way in supporting some actions by the BA on a certain forum and advocating or fascilitating users who plan forum wars and exposure of personal identities and DA against members of another forum and participating in such actions. But that is an aside.


Now...nowhere on RM did I defend the BA here, nor did I defend the bannings, nor did I argue in favor of them. At NO point in my entire stay on that forum did I do ANY of these things. However I still got banned.

And apparantly THAT by your own allusion here was because of personal dislike.

Something which, by the way, they alledge the BA here of doing. Which they say is asinine.

Now....see the hypocracy that is so glaringly obvious????

Apparantly they can not be banned because somebody dislikes them....but they can do this!

This is not said that they were banned for personal dislike. But I am taking your argument and running with it in order to show the ooo so apparant hypocracy of these people.


And you are welcome.

[Chambered Word]

just to clear up a few things:


All I know is that some gamer clique around SArtesian, Die Rote Fahne, Red Dave and a bunch of other people who mostly happened to be Trots were banned for being a clique secret fascist gamer hackers or something to that effect, and that's all we heard. It sounds like a load of paranoia. The whole situation seems really silly and this forum lost a lot of its best members ... I hope I don't get banned for saying that but it's true.

It's also a bunch of stupid drama. The fucking real life revolution is going on all over the world and some internet geeks are worried about cyber-fascist-troll-trotskyist gamers takin down their webz. Who cares? The only real loss is the aforementioned banning of posters who contributed quite a lot of good material to this forum.

just to clear this up, those people had nothing to do with gamer hackers, that was said to be the work of another member. personally I don't believe it. then for some reason a bunch of good posters got banned for being security threats.


I'm more concerned with the principle of the situation, that S. Artesan and RED DAVE got banned while not really doing anything except starting a forum (That to my knowlege includes them and a few friends who don't like stalinists or spartacists, whatever I don't really care). If anything their forum bans capitalists and fascists from the get go, which i'm not too opposed to.

However their banning (along with probably a half dozen other peoples) is completely different from the forum game things since I know firsthand that they never played any forum games. mrmakhail is the only one who really did.

Anyways, this whole situation made the forum lose some of its best posters, who have alot of experience that most people don't have firsthand. I'm opposed to banning anybody unless they digress the conversations and make most topics go off topic by saying something dumb and totally messing up a thread by forcing somebody to point out their obvious mistakes in logic and/or common sense.

Well at least in the big picture this forum as well as the entire internet doesn't matter in the big picture, technology only exasperates existing problems. I just wish it didn't come to this, whatever dumb arguement started these bannings.

I know for sure that RED DAVE, S. Artesan, mrmakhail, and most of the other people are not nazis though, almost 100 percent sure that they're not nazis. If the admins want this forum to prosper and grow and have people go on, I wouldn't repeat the purges.


Personally....I was banned there too.

I was first banned without ever making a single post while registring under my RevLeft tag. This didn't really go noticed because I didn't get any heads up...simply a message saying that my user name and/or password were incorrect.

So I reregistered thinking something had gone wrong.

My initial post was in the off topic thread to an OP who was bragging about having posted personal information on here. My statement was simple: Never cool no matter what your gripes are.

I got banned. My post got editted into something different. No reason was given.

So yeah...I created a new user account...since there were no forum rules at the time there which pohibited the creation of socks.

So I asked why my account was banned, why my post was deleted. That account was promnptly banned to. The username changed and the BA made several posts under it all over the form.

My third account lasted a little bit longer and I did manage to engage in some conversation. During which posts were editted and changed. Posts were deleted and falsely quoted by BA members to make it appear if I had said something completely different.

And...well..this continued for a while until I got IP banned.

None of these accounts by the way did I not identify myselfs. I always made it perfectly clear whom I was. So they weren't exactly socks.

Now had I been rude, abrasive or insulting...I would have understood. But I was none of these things I simply requested to know why they did this, asked if they could quit it and stated I wanted to participate in the debates but simply wanted to know first if the BA would continue to edit my posts since this is not constructive in a forum supposedly dedicated to learn and exchange knowledge. In a respectable environment no less. So yeah....

So this kind of speaks for itself. Such behaviour is abhorrent. And Artesian defended these policies by the BA to the teeth. Red Dave did as well. As did countless others. Some of which the loudest ones to yell here that the board has no democracy and has been under Stalinist repression methods.

The hypocracy of these users is not lost on me. And so is the fact that this means that most of their arguments and claims here were completely and utterly dishonest and in actual fact only served to cater thier own agenda.

wow all that text and no content. but seriously the banned members are implementing rules that are as stringent as revleft and nobody is actually advocating some kind of democratic forum board, they just want a place where arbitrary bans aren't imposed onto people who have something to say. you weren't welcome there because as madvillainy said you're a sycophant, not that you needed me to tell you again.


The fact of the matter is there are plenty of people who disagree with the BA or mods left on the board. There are plenty of people who oppose the BA but choose to do so in a constuctive and civilised manner. And there are plenty of posters left who are general assholes. None of these is a reason to be banned and that is proven by the fact that there are still so many left who do this. So this sentiment of purges is just hyperbole.


Now...this time the BA is a Stalinist clique. Not so long ago the MLs were crying they were being vicitimised by an Anarchist/Trotskyist conspiracy by the BA. And before that the BA was accused by the Maoists of prosecuting their tendency because they were all liberal scum. And before that the BA was totally dissing the Anachists. And before that the BA....bla, bla, bla

Cut the bullshit. The BA is always accussed of some conspiracy or another whenever a high profile member gets him or herself banned.

The BA is composed of multi tendencies. There is no tendency conspiracy here. The board is a pan revolutionary left forum where almost all tendencies in the revolutionary left are accepted and welcome to post.


When no one can find the facts, blame it on the "Stalinists". Some of you people are as bad as the fucking "God-did-it" god of the gaps theorists.

peddling this tendency war nonsense is just a way to distract from the fact that the BA banned a bunch of great posters without good reason. this isn't a trotsky vs stalin thing and there were trots, leftcoms and anarchists who got banned or got sick of RL. there are even MLs here who are speaking out in support of those who got banned. likewise the BA isn't a single ideology group, but they do seem to be aping Stalinist methods (on an internet forum, which is pretty sad, I mean you're not even purging someone in real life).


I find it amusing that a revolutionary website, founded specifically to organize and unite the left, has split along ideological grounds and administrator actions. Strange how the internet imitates real life.

Hint: One of the biggest reasons the far left is irrelevant is because you debate each other over whether or not workers should wear pink shirts or blue shirts at union meetings instead of putting aside your difference to fight your common enemy (capitalism).

again this isn't so much an ideological thing as the fact that people got banned and others are sick of the way the BA runs revleft. also please stop peddling this leftist unity crap, you don't understand socialism or the left at all if you think everyone should join up into one big group or whatever, theoretical differences have much greater meaning and consequence than some caricature of an argument over shirt colours.

[Revolution starts with U]

Your friends were terrible posters and terrible people. Get over it :scared:

Im jk. :lol: But really who gives a carp? They weren't that great of posters. Move on and leave the drama at the door.

[Chambered Word]

alright dude well I don't even remember reading your posts and caring about them, and I'm sure you probably feel the same about me, so I don't think you should be making judgements like that against the sizeable number of people who were banned. all I'm saying is that I don't look forward to reading the latest intensely productive and thought-provoking 'discussions' with the likes of DNZ and manic expression and that anyone who wanted to maintain a decent forum wouldn't have banned all of those people. the problem is that I don't think politics and productive discussion are even considerations, anyone who doesn't kowtow to the BA is a potential target.

I'd leave the drama at the door as you put it if a. there was any point anymore to shutting up and taking what is given to us and b. this wasn't a discussion about the latest bannings. if you don't want to discuss this, good for you.

[CommunityBeliever]

Here is a medal for whoever banned the annoying flamer RED DAVE

http://communistsforkerry.com/images/Medal_Lenin_small.jpg

[Revolution starts with U]

I have repeatedly discussed my disdain for BA policy. Yet here I remain, a "committed user." I have even called them a "clique engaging in cliquism." Yet here I remain, a "committed user." I have called bannings "arbitrary and personal." Yet here I remain, a "committed user." ... and I'm not even a popular poster. I could've been banned and nobody noticed.

I'm going to have to go ahead and say the bannings didn't have anything to do with "not kowtowing to the BA." I mean holy hell, Hindsight was a critic of board policy, and now he's on it.... get real.

Honestly, the only banned member I remember reading was Red Dave. I'm sorry for the rest, but life will go on without them. I wish them all the best.

[Welshy]

Here's my 2 cents on this whole thing, not that it probably means much seeing how I've barely been on here for a year. Also there are a few things I will touch on, so I apologize if this post isn't structured well.

But over all whether a lot of the people banned deserved it or not, the general quality of revleft(which has been going down hill pretty much from the day I join) has taken a huge hit. Every once in awhile there would be some good threads on theory and current events, but most seemed to just decay into rival factions slinging shit at each other. Now with the recent bans, we've lost a lot of posters who made a lot of the good theoretical posts (like Zanthorus, S. Artesian, and Broletariat). So now we have nothing to mask the sectarian shit. On top of this we have all the drama surrounding the bans, which have caused some perfectly rational posters (or at least I thought they were) to be have like children, to add to the previous shit.

Also the way in which a lot of these bans were carried out bugged. I don't like the fact that information was with held from the regular members. If there is a legitimate reason to ban someone, then what's the harm explaining why they were banned out side of a couple words like "violated board rules" or something like that? That said I'm not terribly sad to see some people go like RED DAVE, whose constant arguments with DNZ and the maoist I found quite annoying despite agreeing with most of his points on those issue.

I would also like to comment on the game issue having been on Patton for the continuation of the BoP 1961 game, though I only made like 2 posts. That forum is a breeding ground for reactionaries. I mean half of the people (ok made two or three) have the guy who runs wikipedia as their avatar (the man is a big ayn rand fan) and the forum had a black face and "evil jew" smilies. So I can understand being suspicious of some of the people coming to revleft from that site. Also I was sad to see Smyg and eventual Die Rote Fahne banned.

Since other people mentioned it, I was really shocked to see Hindsight20/20 made mod. I'm not really sure if someone who is still fairly new should be made a mod.

But in the end, unless the quality of revleft goes up, I probably won't be coming back or posting anything (outside of the WPA usergroup, if I do post at all) on here. I'll probably lurk RedMarx for the theoretical posts, but it may be awhile before I join on there given the fact they are also feeding back into the whole banning drama.

[PhoenixAsh]

See...what I do not get is the hypocracy...

I liked Artesian. I liked Zeronowhere. I once argued Artesian over PM that he should stay when he PMed me he wanted to quit the forum because of the LAX!!!! position of the BA on banning some people in a certain WWII thread. He seemed to like me then. He doesn't now. Though I have never once spoken out against him...or argued for his banning.

Same goes for a lot of the banned users. Some of which were in my friend list. Most of whom thanked me often on posts I made.

Most of whom turned on me after the ban. So yeah...

Now they call me a shit poster and a bootlicker. Forgetting that two weeks ago I argued alongside them. Forgetting that they thanked many, many of my posts in the year I was here. Forgetting that they were on my friendlist and still are....and I do not invite....so they added me.

This is ok. As I guess loyalties turn quickly and things are forgotten just as quick it seems. That or they were really, really having some very clever ploy in thanking me to change my ways or somehting. Or maybe it was some twisted form of encouragement?? I will not be loosing any sleep over it.

See the forum has existed for a very long time. Members come and go...and some good posters will be replaced by other good posters. And this will keep happening. Wether these good posters are banned, stop being good posters or because they move on. Somebody will take their place. Some will be missed and some won't.

The way people are acting is like the ONLY good posters on RevLeft were the ones who were banned. And this is not true. We have a whole lot of good posters left. And a whole lot of posters who perhaps never had the chance to claim that title yet....maybe even because of some of the posters who are now gone.

So we will see.

[black magick hustla]

hey i am wondering why i never read a full hindsight post maybe he says interesting things

[black magick hustla]

hey psycho leo told me ur p. cool irl why do you suck so much in the internet

[Property Is Robbery]

So why was Tablo banned? I see no reason in the Admin Action thread, as to why he was banned, or should be like the BA has done with the others. He was a good poster, and seems to have just been banned for no reason other than to ban another member.
No one answered Nin. Why was Tablo banned?

[PhoenixAsh]

No one answered Nin. Why was Tablo banned?

tablo was banned for spreading full name, adress and telephone number of another user they where in conflict with on other fora.

Release of personal information is not allowed on this forum.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Dierotefahn, xubernuddles(I know it is not spelled that way), and socialismorbarbarism?

[Sasha]

Suicide by admin

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

[PhoenixAsh]

Dierotefahn, xubernuddles(I know it is not spelled that way), and socialismorbarbarism?


Die Rote Fahne was banned after he made several threads on the same issue.

xUb3rn00dlEx & Socialismorbarbarism were banned for breaking forum rules. I do not know the particulars.

[Comrade Samuel]

Die Rote Fahne was banned after he made several threads on the same issue.

xUb3rn00dlEx & Socialismorbarbarism were banned for breaking forum rules. I do not know the particulars.

Really? I dident mind die rote fahne what did he keep making threads about?

[Le Rouge]

Die Rote Fahne was banned after he made several threads on the same issue.

xUb3rn00dlEx & Socialismorbarbarism were banned for breaking forum rules. I do not know the particulars.

...:huh: Time to leave i guess.

[ComradeOm]

See the forum has existed for a very long time. Members come and go...and some good posters will be replaced by other good posters. And this will keep happeningWell no. This is perhaps at the root of the board's continuing problems – the assumption that good posters are irrelevant (and the forum membership can therefore be treated with contempt). Let me be clear: there is no mechanism that automatically replaces one banned poster with another of equal quality

It should not be a surprise that when you ban a good poster the quality of forum posts drops. Purge multiple constructive users at the same time and the overall standard of discussion falls noticeably. It becomes a long term problem as new users lack the interaction (which was crucial in my own development) with more theoretically sophisticated posters. The overall culture of the forums stagnates

This is not a hypothetical scenario. Would anyone disagree that the level of discussion on RevLeft is significantly poorer than it was two years ago? (You haven't been here long enough so I'll answer for you on that one: the quality has nosedived at an alarming rate.) Would anyone dispute that it would be higher if the likes of Led Zeppelin, Holden Caulfield, Black Dagger, Bilan were still active? Do you really think that banning ZeroNowhere, Zanthorus, Apoli Viitor, to name but a few, can really be shrugged off as irrelevant to the quality of discussion on this forum?

I benefited immensely from such posters when I first started out here but now I look around and ask where that generation is. Some of those who came up with me have left of their own accord but a significant number have been banned by the current administration or left in disgust at the way the forum is run. Really you can't blame them for not seeing the attraction of staying around

But then you don't care about this. You've got your shiny fast-track promotion and the admins have their constant drama and paranoia to keep them comfort. Nobody with a coloured name actually gives a damn that some of this site's best posters are being banned or driven away en masse. Probably because that would involving actually paying any attention to the concerns of the membership body, rather than viewing it solely as a breeding ground for fantastical conspiracies


And a whole lot of posters who perhaps never had the chance to claim that title yet....maybe even because of some of the posters who are now goneAnd this is just strange. The presence of good posters actually discourages the emergence of good posters? As if everyone here is a tree or something. Here's a tip: the more 'good posters' you have, the higher the quality of discussion and the better the forum. There is no such thing as having too many good people making intelligent contributions

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Die Rote Fahne was banned after he made several threads on the same issue.

xUb3rn00dlEx & Socialismorbarbarism were banned for breaking forum rules. I do not know the particulars.

Yes about the picture of psychos rape joke.
Which kept getting deleted


And could you please dig a little?

[Ele'ill]

So have you all taken a step backwards away from this stuff and thought 'wow, this is just something that happened on an internet forum.' ?

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

no...

[Ele'ill]

no...

You might want to give it a try.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

would love to.
but i would just like a few answers, and dierotefahn unbanned at the least. along with SOB

please just look them up

[La Comédie Noire]

Also, the bit on the main page about Revleft consisting of over 10,000 leftists around the world is in need of a revision. Let's be honest now. It's like a union that inflates their numbers to make seem more appealing to potential members, more threatening to the boss, and more pressing to labor commissions, but causes problems down the road when it is actually just a handful of activists.

The fact there are only 1800 out of 10,000 shows this!

[Ele'ill]

would love to.
but i would just like a few answers, and dierotefahn unbanned at the least. along with SOB

please just look them up

No, just take a deep breath and think about what you're actually doing right now.

[Bronco]

It is a bit disappointing that several good posters have been banned, as someone who's more of a lurker than a poster I found the contribution from some of them quite valuable. But I also saw what was going on when the forum came back after the first period of down time and it did seem to me that users were actually wanting to be banned, and were being deliberately uncooperative, and it all became a bit of a point scoring contest. Anyway it wasn't pretty but at least it seems the situation has been sorted now to a certain extent, I'm glad the site is back up

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

No, just take a deep breath and think about what you're actually doing right now.

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
I simply am curious. It would calm my curiousity if I had answers.
Thank you

[Ele'ill]

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
I simply am curious. It would calm my curiousity if I had answers.
Thank you

Pretend I'm not a mod.

[Decolonize The Left]

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
I simply am curious. It would calm my curiousity if I had answers.
Thank you

Some shit went down and some people were banned from an internet forum. You've been here since May. I dunno, you could maybe not keep making a deal out of it because it's not that important and because you're not gonna change anything.

- August

[Ele'ill]

How did you get to keep the larger avatar?

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Pretend I'm not a mod.
what would that do?

[Ele'ill]

what would that do?


I don't know for sure, let's find out though.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

I don't know for sure, let's find out though.
ok your not a mod.



anyways, please stop beating around the bush

[SVeach94]

Made this for you guys:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/227/revleftpurge.png

[Ele'ill]

Made this for you guys:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/227/revleftpurge.png

That's not realistic at all I can see that it's been digitally copy pasted onto a picture of someone wearing a plain white shirt. I am extremely disappointed.

[SVeach94]

That's not realistic at all I can see that it's been digitally copy pasted onto a picture of someone wearing a plain white shirt. I am extremely disappointed.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvrp8bU9AV1qibz0jo1_500.png

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I think I will go onto Zazzle and actually make one of those shirts :D

[Ele'ill]

I'm saying you did a really bad job is all. It wasn't even all that clever really. I mean I appreciate the effort though. Good job spending the time to make that photo and then upload it onto the internet forum.

[SVeach94]

I'm saying you did a really bad job is all. It wasn't even all that clever really. I mean I appreciate the effort though. Good job spending the time to make that photo and then upload it onto the internet forum.
What can I say? I was bored, and mildly trolling this forum is a hobby of mine.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

I'm saying you did a really bad job is all. It wasn't even all that clever really. I mean I appreciate the effort though. Good job spending the time to make that photo and then upload it onto the internet forum.
please, reading and responding to my earlier post would be greatly appreciated.

thank you

[Ele'ill]

What can I say? I was bored, and mildly trolling this forum is a hobby of mine.

A hobby or a career? And when I see 'mildly' perhaps you over-spoke a little bit eh?

[Ele'ill]

please, reading and responding to my earlier post would be greatly appreciated.

thank you

Why are you singling me out of everyone in this thread to read your one post way back there that I can't get to now because I just can't.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

What about hindsight? 5 5 5? Psycho?
Please respond ASAP.
Thank you

[Ele'ill]

What about hindsight? 5 5 5? Psycho?
Please respond ASAP.
Thank you

Wait, do you mean you want me to respond to you about them or do you mean you want me to get them to respond to you about them or do you want them to get me to respond to you about them or about the other users or do you want me to get the other users to respond to them about themselves to get a response to me to respond to you or should I get them to respond to themselves about themself

[Ele'ill]

The Red Comet, the fact of the matter is that you can't hug every cat.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Yes, but unfortunately is like saying you can't drink every bottle in a six pack.

I would just like to know why SOB was banned, and would like to ask the real reason dierotefahn was banned.

Thank you

[Ele'ill]

Yes, but unfortunately is like saying you can't drink every bottle in a six pack.

What I'm saying though is that you can't hug every cat.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

What I'm saying though is that you can't hug every cat.
But I am also saying you can drink every bottle in a six pack

[Ele'ill]

But I am also saying you can drink every bottle in a six pack

That isn't relevant to this conversation though.

[Decolonize The Left]

Yes, but unfortunately is like saying you can't drink every bottle in a six pack.

I would just like to know why SOB was banned, and would like to ask the real reason dierotefahn was banned.

Thank you

PM a fucking admin dude - you are seriously sounding like a whiny child right now. Leave Mari3L alone, someone who has actively attempted to engage you, and ask someone who actually had something to do with this. Ask them, stop trolling and spamming this thread with nonsense. Private message an admin with a simple and kind request and most likely you'll get a response, or a link to the post in the Admin Actions thread which explains what happens.

Then have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. Sheesh.

- August

[Zostrianos]

Why did Agent Equality get banned? He was an awesome poster, with good judgment on every topic I remember seeing.

[Ele'ill]

why did agent equality get banned? He was an awesome poster, with good judgment on every topic i remember seeing.

because he couldn't hug every cat

[TheGodlessUtopian]

What on earth is this hugging every cat thing about?...then there is the drinking six pack reference... maybe I am just out of date on the terms but these are confusing to me, el a mind fuck.Maybe switch it up and say hug every bottle?

[Ele'ill]

I was just sayin

[Prometeo liberado]

OK. I'm stupid then 'cus I still am not understanding why the site was down for whatever amount of days? Recently I was banned from the R%#N site for questioning threads that called for violence against certain left groups. Was it something like that? Any response will help.:(

[TheGodlessUtopian]

OK. I'm stupid then 'cus I still am not understanding why the site was down for whatever amount of days? Recently I was banned from the R%#N site for questioning threads that called for violence against certain left groups. Was it something like that? Any response will help.:(

Fascist infiltration which occurred at the same time the site was attempted to be hacked.There was also lots of concern over forum games and how some users invited said fascists in to play the games while saying to the scumbags to conceal their views.Also a lot of members were banned because they presented a risk to security.That is all I know.

[Decolonize The Left]

OK. I'm stupid then 'cus I still am not understanding why the site was down for whatever amount of days? Recently I was banned from the R%#N site for questioning threads that called for violence against certain left groups. Was it something like that? Any response will help.:(

The site was down because the administration was updating the security software for the board. I dunno why you were banned from another board, but that's not why this site was down...

- August

[Ele'ill]

Fascist infiltration which occurred at the same time the cats were attempted to be hugged.There was also lots of concern over forum games and how some users invited said fascists in to hug the cats while saying to the scumbags to conceal their views.Also a lot of members were banned because they presented a risk to security.That is all I know.

That sounds like quite a bit of information. I don't know if it's good news or not at this point but word on the street is that not all the cats can be hugged because that's crazy. Take it well salted though- if the cats were small enough a lot of them could be hugged.

[Decolonize The Left]

That sounds like quite a bit of information. I don't know if it's good news or not at this point but word on the street is that not all the cats can be hugged because that's crazy. Take it well salted though- if the cats were small enough a lot of them could be hugged.

Indeed. Those are called "kittens":
http://www.housecatscentral.com/kittens.jpg

- August

[Ele'ill]

Those could probably be hugged.

But not them all-

http://www.sanpedrosun.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/33-SAGA-Cat-Population-Pyramid.jpg

[Agent Ducky]

What on earth is this hugging every cat thing about?...then there is the drinking six pack reference... maybe I am just out of date on the terms but these are confusing to me, el a mind fuck.Maybe switch it up and say hug every bottle?
It's a reference to this. With autotune to make it more fun:
sP4NMoJcFd4

[TheGodlessUtopian]

That sounds like quite a bit of information. I don't know if it's good news or not at this point but word on the street is that not all the cats can be hugged because that's crazy. Take it well salted though- if the cats were small enough a lot of them could be hugged.

...don't be ridiculous-I SHALL HUG ALL THE CATS IN THE WORLD! ....you might want to think of changing it to,"You can't walk all the dogs in the world."

[Decolonize The Left]

...don't be ridiculous-I SHALL HUG ALL THE CATS IN THE WORLD! ....you might want to think of changing it to,"You can't walk all the dogs in the world."

WRONG.

Because dogs don't need 'walking.' They are perfectly capable of moving themselves around. Kittens, on the other hand, require massive amounts of attention from people like me.

- August

[TheGodlessUtopian]

WRONG.

Because dogs don't need 'walking.' They are perfectly capable of moving themselves around. Kittens, on the other hand, require massive amounts of attention from people like me.

- August

Those small dogs that get tired easily need walking... plus cats can move themselves without you just fine but without me they shall go hugless,so hence, I am needed to save the world

Check and mate.

[Decolonize The Left]

Those small dogs that get tired easily need walking... plus cats can move themselves without you just fine but without me they shall go hugless,so hence, I am needed to save the world

Check and mate.

How can you walk an easily tired dog? In your effort to integrate chess into this discussion, you have confused your bishop with your knight. You must go back in an L-shape and try again.

Also, kittens love me more than you.

- August

[Ele'ill]

CheBneJ9HmA

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I am the kitten god... your move Sherlock...

[Decolonize The Left]

I am the kitten god... your move Sherlock...

d4HwO3ZUCUw

Queen to rook 6.

- August

[La Comédie Noire]

I like the cats with the white paws and bellys who are fluffy because they look like little bourgeois revolutionaries.

[Ele'ill]

mPnBJsKHeUE

[Fopeos]

Wow, there was quite a purge. I've been busy with school and took a couple of weeks off of revleft. Course, i'm a bit peripheral anyway. Rarely indulge in one on one chats and never really start threads so i wouldn't expect anyone to have missed me. I am glad to say, i was not purged. I read a post about 'Bud struggle'. Was he really a capitalist? someone said he owned a factory and posted on here just for kicks. That's crazy! P.S., a little messed right now so disregard if this comes off pathetic, stupid, or irrelevant. Anyone who has liked my opinions and noticed i was gone, i'm glad to be back. can't wait to learn more to broaden my own humble understanding of Marxism

[Ele'ill]

Wow, there was quite a purge. I've been busy with school and took a couple of weeks off of revleft. Course, i'm a bit peripheral anyway. Rarely indulge in one on one chats and never really start threads so i wouldn't expect anyone to have missed me. I am glad to say, i was not purged. I read a post about 'Bud struggle'. Was he really a capitalist? someone said he owned a factory and posted on here just for kicks. That's crazy! P.S., a little messed right now so disregard if this comes off pathetic, stupid, or irrelevant. Anyone who has liked my opinions and noticed i was gone, i'm glad to be back. can't wait to learn more to broaden my own humble understanding of Marxism

What about your understanding of marxism exactly?

[Chambered Word]

So have you all taken a step backwards away from this stuff and thought 'wow, this is just something that happened on an internet forum.' ?

why are you telling rank and file users this, we weren't the ones conducting a purge under some pretense of 'zomg guise fascist invasion'. people just want a good place to have discussions with other leftists and it's not the end of the world but as Om said before it's really starting to suck.

[Ele'ill]

why are you telling rank and file users this, we weren't the ones conducting a purge under some pretense of 'zomg guise fascist invasion'. people just want a good place to have discussions with other leftists and it's not the end of the world but as Om said before it's really starting to suck.

Maybe I wasn't speaking to a particular audience. I think generally it's good to take a step back sometimes. Did this make sense, I'm sorry I'm thinking about cats again.

[Chambered Word]

Maybe I wasn't speaking to a particular audience. I think generally it's good to take a step back sometimes. Did this make sense, I'm sorry I'm thinking about cats again.

so much cat ITT...anyway I get what you mean, yes people are pissed off about this but we've got a reason to, and when we're not doing shit irl we like to have somewhere decent to discuss the world with other communists. the point is that we didn't enact bans to start with. the initial bans and the response to people making threads about them have hardly been equivocal nor appropriate in the slightest. being annoyed by this drama is merely a response to the pettiness displayed by the BA and it's not like the BA shouldn't have expected this response anyway. if the bans were legit, the reasons and evidence behind them should have been laid out already. as you said, this isn't really directed at anyone in particular.

[synthesis]

OK. I'm stupid then 'cus I still am not understanding why the site was down for whatever amount of days? Recently I was banned from the R%#N site for questioning threads that called for violence against certain left groups. Was it something like that? Any response will help.:(

Wow, is "RAAN" still a blocked word on Revleft? That's fucking hilarious.

[PhoenixAsh]

What about hindsight? 5 5 5? Psycho?
Please respond ASAP.
Thank you

What about me?

[ComradeOm]

Maybe I wasn't speaking to a particular audience. I think generally it's good to take a step back sometimes. Did this make sense, I'm sorry I'm thinking about cats again.So this is the future of RevLeft: cats and spam. I'd suggest that there is a strategic lack of moderation but then that's never been the administration's strong suit anyway

Still, it's worth talking a bit about 'taking a step back' and just what that means

Reflection is good and I've tried to remain detached from all the bullshit drama. Unfortunately the bigger picture is no less depressing. I like RevLeft and have wasted countless hours having a good time on this forum in the past several years. It is 'just a forum' in the same way that my TV is 'just a TV'; that doesn't make the latter breaking any more acceptable or provide a good reason why I should have a TV-shaped hole in my life

Which is where it all gets depressing. The constant drama, theatrics and conspiracies of this admin team becomes tiring after a while. The banning of good posters for spurious reasons means that friends disappear and the quality of discussion drops. Moderation suffers as mods are appointed on the basis of loyalty to the Big Red Names. It gets tiring watching this and, much like a TV programme with terrible reception, I'm left wondering why the hell I'm bothering to watch this. At this stage taking a step back means turning my back and walking away

So yeah, you want to talk about drama then please don't pick on those of us who are simply sick to the stomach of it. Please don't suggest that it is the ordinary users who need to take a step back. I suggest that it is the admins who should try to rise above the ridiculous coil of conspiracies, paranoia and petty feuding that seems to envelope them. These are not traits or obsessions of the wider forum body but appear to be all the admin team care about. The governance of this site has become some claustrophobic and incestuous (like a parody of some Cold War spy novel) that it has completely lost sight of the purpose of this site. Rather than waging war for the continued personal control of RevLeft, it would be nice if the admins actually tried to make it a better place for the users

(Even that would require, you know, not banning good posters on a paranoid whim. Which is not going to stop anytime soon)

But then that is not what you and other members of the administration mean when you say 'take a step back'. No. What you mean is 'forget that this site is managed in a shockingly bad way and remember that it's just an internet forum'. Or, to be more explicit: 'accept the shit standards and be happy'. As ironic as it is to see such sentiments endorsed by people who have done more than anyone else to personalise the issue, I can't help but feel that this is an exceptionally bad attitude for an admin or mod to have. Which brings us back to the complete lack of interest in improving this site.

It is apparently much easier to feud with individual users (OMG they had the temerity to set up another site. This can only be part of some neo-Nazi plot!) than actually run this site for the benefit of the users. So take a step back

[GatesofLenin]

Fascist infiltration which occurred at the same time the site was attempted to be hacked.There was also lots of concern over forum games and how some users invited said fascists in to play the games while saying to the scumbags to conceal their views.Also a lot of members were banned because they presented a risk to security.That is all I know.

Right and the board owners have a right to do that. Why are so many questions being asked about banned this or that? Let the admins do their jobs and keep the forum operating smoothly.

[ComradeOm]

A large part of the current problem is that some people, at all levels, don't see the contradiction there. The myth remains that it is possible to have a well run forum that is entirely unanswerable to, and indeed contemptuous of, the general membership. That if everyone shuts up and silently accepts the admin diktats then everything will run smoothly

This is obviously silly. RevLeft has the overbearing admin structure that demands no questions yet it is certainly not a forum that "operates smoothly". Quite the opposite: the past two years have been plagued by more shitstorms, more drama and more unjustified bannings than the previous five that I've experienced. This is not even touching on the steady decline in quality

Now why is this? The admins would argue... actually, no, the admins do not argue or debate anything. Supporters of the admins would argue that the current troubles are solely the fault of a small minority of troublemakers who are stirring up trouble. It therefore falls to the rest of us to shut up, bow our heads and let the admins get on with it. Aside from being an incredibly naive attitude for supposed 'leftists', this tends to ignore that the banned 'troublemakers' include many of the more intelligent and constructive posters on the site. It is hard to reconcile them to the role of neo-Nazi trolls stirring trouble because they hate RevLeft

An alternative view would be that far from engendering a smoothly operating forum, the admin habits of not debating with, not informing and not giving a damn about the general membership has in fact managed to a) piss off a huge number of good posters and b) create a poisonous forum atmosphere in which they conduct their witch-hunts. An atmosphere in which people can legitimately call on people to stop questioning why X and Y were banned, as if the disappearance of friends and good posters was an irrelevancy. You want to know the root cause of the admins' problems? It's the admins

I would say that nothing will change until people accept that you cannot have a thriving forum headed by an administration that is interested in nothing save its own skin and its own petty agendas. But nothing is going to change anyway. At least not until the collapse in quality has become so obvious that the forum collectively chokes on its own cat pictures

[PhoenixAsh]

So this is the future of RevLeft: cats and spam. I'd suggest that there is a strategic lack of moderation but then that's never been the administration's strong suit anyway

Still, it's worth talking a bit about 'taking a step back' and just what that means

Reflection is good and I've tried to remain detached from all the bullshit drama. Unfortunately the bigger picture is no less depressing. I like RevLeft and have wasted countless hours having a good time on this forum in the past several years. It is 'just a forum' in the same way that my TV is 'just a TV'; that doesn't make the latter breaking any more acceptable or provide a good reason why I should have a TV-shaped hole in my life

Which is where it all gets depressing. The constant drama, theatrics and conspiracies of this admin team becomes tiring after a while. The banning of good posters for spurious reasons means that friends disappear and the quality of discussion drops. Moderation suffers as mods are appointed on the basis of loyalty to the Big Red Names. It gets tiring watching this and, much like a TV programme with terrible reception, I'm left wondering why the hell I'm bothering to watch this. At this stage taking a step back means turning my back and walking away

So yeah, you want to talk about drama then please don't pick on those of us who are simply sick to the stomach of it. Please don't suggest that it is the ordinary users who need to take a step back. I suggest that it is the admins who should try to rise above the ridiculous coil of conspiracies, paranoia and petty feuding that seems to envelope them. These are not traits or obsessions of the wider forum body but appear to be all the admin team care about. The governance of this site has become some claustrophobic and incestuous (like a parody of some Cold War spy novel) that it has completely lost sight of the purpose of this site. Rather than waging war for the continued personal control of RevLeft, it would be nice if the admins actually tried to make it a better place for the users

(Even that would require, you know, not banning good posters on a paranoid whim. Which is not going to stop anytime soon)

But then that is not what you and other members of the administration mean when you say 'take a step back'. No. What you mean is 'forget that this site is managed in a shockingly bad way and remember that it's just an internet forum'. Or, to be more explicit: 'accept the shit standards and be happy'. As ironic as it is to see such sentiments endorsed by people who have done more than anyone else to personalise the issue, I can't help but feel that this is an exceptionally bad attitude for an admin or mod to have. Which brings us back to the complete lack of interest in improving this site.

It is apparently much easier to feud with individual users (OMG they had the temerity to set up another site. This can only be part of some neo-Nazi plot!) than actually run this site for the benefit of the users. So take a step back


Ok...from one user to another.


I am also tired of this drama...I have been for months. We have the same idea, but we are looking at it from whole different perspectives.

Everytime an active member gets banned there is a cry of outrage by some of the users who group together with pitchforks and torches. Depending on the tendency of the banned user these groups usually have more or less the same composition. Or the usual people will say the usual thing in the usual way. And usually that is screaming bloody murder and demanding for heads to roll.

It has been going on for months now. And maybe even longer.

You kow it, I know it.

That polarises the debate. That polarises positions. That sees to it that people get entrenched and are a lot less willing to listen to each other, to reach a compromise or to find solutions.

It creates an us-vs-them mentality.

And when users start to pressure other users into supporting them...by saying you are either with us or against us and start treating other members who disagree or who do not like their methods as enemies who they feel they have a right to flame, insult or treat with contempt...then things get much, much more polarised and the stakes are upped.

So yeah...nobody listens to anybody.

And mostly the most vocal users are fucking hypocritical. One day they will happilly argue that users should be banned and that the BA is not harsh enough and too lax. And the next..when they themselves or their friends are suddenly confronted with the very same rules that they were clammoring to be enforced more on somebody else just days before...all of the sudden the BA is evil and vile and shit.

Yeah I like good posters. But when active users and good posters start to feel the rules should not apply to them or that they should hold some privileged position because they consider themselves better than others then the line should be drawn. Yeah it sucks if they get banned. And yeah the board loses out. And it takes time to replace or recover. That does not mean the board should roll over because some hot shot thinks he should be exempt from the rules and agreements on this board.


So if the way this board is administrated in a wrong way. Then maybe that is just as much to blame on some users who feel entitled, who can not act in a grown up fashion and who feel the need to create mob mentality atmosphere....as on supposed BA members who look down on members from an ivory tower.

And that is always been my point. You get nowehere if you just start shooting at each other. You get somewhere if there is an atmosphere of community sense and a willingness to listen and come to agreements.

That has been absent here. And users are just as much to blame as the BA....vicious circkles and all.

So yeah...the largest group on this forum...the users who just want to post and have a good time, who want to learn, express knowledge, share knowledge and experience and generally have a good time...they get fucked up in the middle.

An the splitting of the board needs to stop.

If users have gripes...they should be allowed to speak about them and they should expect people to listen and acknoweldge them. That doesn't mean that everything should be solved or that they always get their way. But they should do so in a reasonable manner. That would be much more constructive.

[dodger]

well that needed saying 20/20...foresight (not hindsight).

[PhoenixAsh]

A large part of the current problem is that some people, at all levels, don't see the contradiction there. The myth remains that it is possible to have a well run forum that is entirely unanswerable to, and indeed contemptuous of, the general membership. That if everyone shuts up and silently accepts the admin diktats then everything will run smoothly

This is obviously silly. RevLeft has the overbearing admin structure that demands no questions yet it is certainly not a forum that "operates smoothly". Quite the opposite: the past two years have been plagued by more shitstorms, more drama and more unjustified bannings than the previous five that I've experienced. This is not even touching on the steady decline in quality

Now why is this? The admins would argue... actually, no, the admins do not argue or debate anything. Supporters of the admins would argue that the current troubles are solely the fault of a small minority of troublemakers who are stirring up trouble. It therefore falls to the rest of us to shut up, bow our heads and let the admins get on with it. Aside from being an incredibly naive attitude for supposed 'leftists', this tends to ignore that the banned 'troublemakers' include many of the more intelligent and constructive posters on the site. It is hard to reconcile them to the role of neo-Nazi trolls stirring trouble because they hate RevLeft

An alternative view would be that far from engendering a smoothly operating forum, the admin habits of not debating with, not informing and not giving a damn about the general membership has in fact managed to a) piss off a huge number of good posters and b) create a poisonous forum atmosphere in which they conduct their witch-hunts. An atmosphere in which people can legitimately call on people to stop questioning why X and Y were banned, as if the disappearance of friends and good posters was an irrelevancy. You want to know the root cause of the admins' problems? It's the admins

I would say that nothing will change until people accept that you cannot have a thriving forum headed by an administration that is interested in nothing save its own skin and its own petty agendas. But nothing is going to change anyway. At least not until the collapse in quality has become so obvious that the forum collectively chokes on its own cat pictures

It is not that they ask...it is how they ask. I saw this as a user. And I see this now.

And I do not support the admins. I support this community.

And the community needs to come to agreements. And entrenching left and right of the equation is not beneficial to this or the community. No matter how fed up you are.

And the mentality of us-vs-them extends to people who speak out against methods. You get type cast. The board is devided by people who push others into categories on the basis of where they stand in this us-vs-them environment. And some of them are fucking dishonest and only rage because they are not the ones pulling the strings.

I spoke out for the banning of KC. I got branded a boot licker. Fuck that. They guy was an asshole. I spoke out against the banning of Rosa. I spoke out against the OI changes. I spoke out a lot of times. I agreed with the baning of Bailey. Wether you like it or not. I have my own opinions...and sometimes they coincide with the BA and sometimes they do not.

But people want you to jump on their bandwagon in their own personal wars...or else you are part of the enemy team.

You do not see how THAT mentality stiffles the board?

...that has gone on for months now...

[Sasha]

small point is that those most critical of the admins couldnt even be arsed to do a decent enough job of modding one sub-forum, if they ever accepted a position of responsibility at all.
If we do such a shitty job, and our critics can do so much better surely one of the clone/split fora would have taken off by now. But no, they fold or disappear in oblivion because they do a even worse job then us I assume.
We are constantly looking for willing capable people to get involved with the BA (and no, one does not need to swear alliance to the anarcho-trot-stalinist-conspiracy (tm) first) but it are always the same people the hours of work every week come down to.
Users here are very good at complaining but hardly ever offer to support the board in a constructive way.
The fact that after we got rid of the Google ads after popular demand it came down to 2 or 3 admins to foot the bills most months because the regular membership hardly donated is exemplary IMHO.
The CC was a interesting experiment in online democracy but it failed, for a number of reasons some of wich I mentioned above, and its not coming back because when the choice came between either disbanding or others taking over the workload, dealing with insane amounts of unpaid work it took, dealung with the drama, the backstabbing, the petty politics etc etc no one stepped up to the plate.
So yeah, I hate to say it but this is what you are stuck with, and it sound fucked up but it is indeed take it or leave it.
Our priority lies firmly in maintaining this tool for the thousands of users who don't care for the e-drama, who are happy there are people willing to do all this work.
It is what it is.

[Le Libérer]

small point is that those most critical of the admins couldnt even be arsed to do a decent enough job of modding one sub-forum, if they ever accepted a position of responsibility at all.
If we do such a shitty job, and our critics can do so much better surely one of the clone/split fora would have taken off by now. But no, they fold or disappear in oblivion because they do a even worse job then us I assume.
We are constantly looking for willing capable people to get involved with the BA (and no, one does not need to swear alliance to the anarcho-trot-stalinist-conspiracy (tm) first) but it are always the same people the hours of work every week come down to.
Users here are very good at complaining but hardly ever offer to support the board in a constructive way.
The fact that after we got rid of the Google ads after popular demand it came down to 2 or 3 admins to foot the bills most months because the regular membership hardly donated is exemplary IMHO.
The CC was a interesting experiment in online democracy but it failed, for a number of reasons some of wich I mentioned above, and its not coming back because when the choice came between either disbanding or others taking over the workload, dealing with insane amounts of unpaid work it took, dealung with the drama, the backstabbing, the petty politics etc etc no one stepped up to the plate.
So yeah, I hate to say it but this is what you are stuck with, and it sound fucked up but it is indeed take it or leave it.
Our priority lies firmly in maintaining this tool for the thousands of users who don't care for the e-drama, who are happy there are people willing to do all this work.
It is what it is.
This.

And the only thing I would add is we are very aware of the online leftist postition this board has in the world right now with the world revolution upon us. THAT is our #1 priority in everything we do. So when you use that as a measuring stick, it makes sense some of the decisions we make as admins. Every admin on this board has been very successful in their private lives as organizers and organization leaders and activists. We have very impressive real life resumes. It brings experience to the table when making board decisions.

And as psycho says, we are the #1 leftist message board in the world. Thers a reason for that. We have a winning recipe, we know what that is, and we are sticking to it.

[ComradeOm]

So if the way this board is administrated in a wrong way. Then maybe that is just as much to blame on some users who feel entitled, who can not act in a grown up fashion and who feel the need to create mob mentality atmosphere....as on supposed BA members who look down on members from an ivory towerSo the posters who have been banned on spurious and indefensible* grounds are to blame for the poor administration of this site? No, there is only one group of people on this site who are "shooting". There's quite a lot of people complaining about this conduct but only the admins have the power and the will to purge the forum

What you are doing is assuming that anyone who complains about this conduct, who objects to people being slandered and banned for no good reason, is actually part of the problem. That is quite a perverse bit of logic there and is simply a restatement of the standard admin line - shut up and carry on. It calls for a scenario in which people accept the bullshit excuses provided ("security reasons", "external sources", some vast neo-Nazi conspiracy), and accept being treated like children, while the admins continue to drive the site into the ground

In the name of not "splitting the board" you would ask us to appeal to the better nature of an administration that has repeatedly proven to lack the interest or the capability of actually listening to the membership. That we're discussing this in OI because we no longer have a Member Forum is testament enough to this. And you are surprised that people get fed up with the admins?

*Literally in that the admins refuse to openly explain or defend them


Users here are very good at complaining but hardly ever offer to support the board in a constructive wayNow that takes the biscuit. You close down the one real avenue to user input into the running of the site. You then propose a poor substitute before emasculating it. You lock any thread that seriously questions this site's governance. You then abolish the Member Forum entirely. You present us with a "take it or leave it" choice. And now you blame the user base for not taking a more proactive or constructive role in the management of the board?


Our priority lies firmly in maintaining this tool for the thousands of users who don't care for the e-drama, who are happy there are people willing to do all this workI wonder what you're basing this on. Perhaps the fact that you've banned most of the more vocal critics?

I can't remember if it was during the CC or TAT purges but I once proposed a simple poll to gauge how many people have confidence in the current administration. Naturally the thread was locked and the idea came to nothing. You see, most people don't like the drama and most people just want to get on with, you know, actually enjoying their time on RevLeft. I include myself in this. It has become pretty obvious to an increasing number of people that the current administration is desperately, desperately poor limiting the amount of drama that we are forced to endure. To the point that there have been three major purges (with associated downtime) in the past two years. This would have been unheard of in the CC days

So no, I don't think that you can rely on the support of many people who knew RevLeft before the current administration put themselves in charge. Nor do I think you have the support of the "thousands of users" who have zero input into the site's policies and have seen, even in the past two years, a steady decline in the quality of discussions. You even managed to piss off the gaming crowd*. If you're going to claim that you are acting in the name of 'the masses' then at least be prepared to substantiate that; rather than simply relying on 'oh we're so unappreciated. These bans are hard work you know'

*Has anyone noticed the irony that this discussion has been held in the recently cleansed OI? I mean, there's nowhere else for it (thanks admins) but it's not exactly political discussion with non-communists


Every admin on this board has been very successful in their private lives as organizers and organization leaders and activists. We have very impressive real life resumes. It brings experience to the table when making board decisionsI really wish that people wouldn't personalise the issue or expand the scope of the discussion beyond this forum

If you are going to use RL experience as some basis of legitimacy - which I really don't suggest that you do - then it seems pretty perverse to ban anyone who even raises questions on another site as to your RL experience or 'revolutionary credentials'. Which is exactly why I wouldn't rely on 'I did this and that in RL' as a basis for anything. People naturally will ask you to prove or substantiate it. It then seems pretty silly to ban people for discussing a point that you yourself have raised


And as psycho says, we are the #1 leftist message board in the world. Thers a reason for that. We have a winning recipe, we know what that is, and we are sticking to itPlease tell me that you don't think the reason is the current administration structure? Keep in mind of course that RevLeft was "the #1 leftist message board in the world" two years ago. And four years ago. And six years ago. So no, you're not doing anything special in that regard

Although I'd be genuinely interested in knowing what you think the reason is. Personally, I'd suggest that most of it is due - leaving aside critical mass - to the quality of the posters and an environment that encourages broad learning. But then the admins don't see anything wrong with purging good posters with no reason...

[Le Libérer]

What is being said about me personally on another message board is irrelevant. I have posted real life proof here that answered any doubts to their lies. So besides that point, which isnt one in reality, my work speaks for itself. What a handful of disgruntled banned users with a axe to pick really has no bearing on it. I see it as white noise or empty chattering in the big picture, something to be expected.

Now thats out of the way, what makes revleft the best out there is a formula and vision by its owner. It undeniable. Banning members who seek to destroy its effectiveness for a tool of the left makes them not leftists no matter how much Marx they can recite.

The splinter board as others in the past, is there to gripe and moan about this board and personally attack those who also see the potential this board has in others real lives. It will whither away on the vine because its mission isnt unity to the left, but one looking to destroy it.


Please tell me that you don't think the reason is the current administration structure? Keep in mind of course that RevLeft was "the #1 leftist message board in the world" two years ago. And four years ago. And six years ago. So no, you're not doing anything special in that regardOh sure we are. We are maintaining that formula. If we listened to yours and some of the others rants, it would be lost. Using another board to organize troll attacks on this board isnt considered being supportive of it.

[Sasha]

Euhm, If I remember correctly I became a admin after the closure of the CC and so did most current admins who mostly where not even mods back then. Now you can offcourse argue that we only became admins because we are cotr "bootlickers" that follow her and miles preset path to dictatorship etc etc but that would for sure show a misunderstanding on how the BA works (i for one became a admin after TAT nominated me after I challenged him that I could do a better job then him) or more likely a intentional mistruth.

[Le Libérer]

Euhm, If I remember correctly I became a admin after the closure of the CC and so did most current admins who mostly where not even mods back then. Now you can offcourse argue that we only became admins because we are cotr "bootlickers" that follow her and miles preset path to dictatorship etc etc but that would for sure show a misunderstanding on how the BA works (i for one became a admin after TAT nominated me after I challenged him that I could do a better job then him) or more likely a intentional mistruth.
I have to admit I chuckle when I read that stuff. If they only knew how much I nag the men on the admin team over the simplest decisions for direction. Oh well someone has to be the scape goat. Dealing with it is as easy as the estrogen I deal with daily. (And yes I will argue there is a correlation)

Anyway, I think I have been very clear on my actions here. I dont see a need to continue knit picking it apart, so I will be leaving this thread now. If another admin feels the need to pick up where I left off, they can. I have an inbox if you really need more info, use it, otherwise I have stuff to do.

[Le Libérer]

Red Comet as I said to you privately, we do not infract someone twice for the same post. It has been dealt with in the past and we arent going to deal with it again unless that user posts it again. Please do not troll this board over it again. I dont want to give you an infraction.

[Invader Zim]

Oh sure we are. We are maintaining that formula. If we listened to yours and some of the others rants, it would be lost. Using another board to organize troll attacks on this board isnt considered being supportive of it.

On the contrary, the quality of the board had decreased dramatically over recent years. We have had more drama on a larger and more destructive scale. We have had more high quality posters banned for highly dubious reasons. We have seen a wide-scale loss of trust in the board management. We have had more threads needlessly closed. We have seen widescale misuse of the board rules and quality control system (see, as an example, the fact that you banned an individual for calling Malte a zionist, while untrue and in need of correction with relevent quotes from the old CC threads and at most an infraction, it did not require a ban and a ban was totally out of line with the board rules, guidelines and structure). We have also seen a massive decline in the respect of the board administration for the general membership, in which you treat us like children - and the irony is that the current system has placed the 4th graders in charge. Afterall, when I suggested earlier that this episode had caused a loss of confidence in the board administrators I was told that if I held that view then obviously I needed to be more active in real life; a thinly veiled insult designed to discount any who object to how this board is being (mis)handled.

I think it is quite telling that you guys think that you are doing a good job and then proceed to shout down those telling you in uncertain terms that you are not, and those who vocally persisted were banned for "trolling" and "spamming".

You know when the CC was closed I was hopeful for the future, because I remember how smoothly the board used to be prior to the CC's gradual growth in status as an administrative centre; how drama free it was; how reasonable the staff members were; how open everything was; and with the exception of banning fascists and locking capitalists on what was then capitalism vs socialism, just how light touch board administration was. I had high hopes that we would return to that. After all, it wasn't like the CC was introduced to replace that because it was broken, rather the CC organically emerged precisely because the administrators had respect for the users and were willing to listen to them.

What I want to know is why we cannot return to that - a respectful and light touch approach to board administration.

[ComradeOm]

What is being said about me personally on another message board is irrelevant. I have posted real life proof here that answered any doubts to their liesYou have? Apologies, I wasn't aware of that. Where can I find this proof?


Now thats out of the way, what makes revleft the best out there is a formula and vision by its owner. It undeniableOkay. If we're going to say it's undeniable then perhaps you can point me to somewhere where this vision is expressed? And out of curiosity, who does own RevLeft these days?


Banning members who seek to destroy its effectiveness for a tool of the left makes them not leftists no matter how much Marx they can recite.Well I have to admit that this does explain a lot. Do you really think like this?

1) People who object to the current administration of RevLeft are actually "seeking to destroy its effectiveness for a tool of the left". They're not interested in improving the forum and they don't object to your policies because they think that they are incorrect; no, all those protests at bannings and poor policies and lack of communication and whatever are simply a smokescreen for their own hidden agenda. That being a genuine desire to tear down RevLeft and are actively "seeking to destroy its effectiveness"

2) Because these people disagree with you on board policy they are in fact "not leftists". That is, you are capable of judging whether somebody is or isn't a socialist on the basis of a disagreement over admin actions. Let me guess: they're all fascists and neo-Nazis in disguise?

I'm actually going to echo the call to step back and think about the implications of the above and why it seems so familiar


Oh sure we are. We are maintaining that formula. If we listened to yours and others rants, it would be lost.No. That does not make sense. You radically changed the board structure to save it from the CC in order to keep things as they were? Try again please

RevLeft was "the #1 leftist message board in the world" two years ago and it is the largest today. Where the the basis for suggesting that anything that you have done has impacted that? How can you claim that this legitimises your position when it applies equally, if not more so, to the CC era? Should you not have stood up two years ago and proclaimed that the CC was clearly working because 'RevLeft is the #1 leftist message board in the world'?


Anyway, I think I have been very clear on my actions hereWell I'm afraid that you haven't. As grateful as I am that you deigned to respond to this peon with a post or two, you've not begun to scratch the surface of issues that need clarifying. Are you so out of touch that you genuinely believe that two announcement posts and a few scattered comments even begin to address the issues that have been raised over the past week and a bit? Or do you just not care?


but that would for sure show a misunderstanding on how the BA worksI wonder why that would be. At some point you admins are going to have to accept that it is you who are to blame for the endless whispering and speculation. Of course people will exchange rumours or go off-site when you take controversial actions and provide no reasoning; when there is absolutely no adequate official explanation for events that have all members concerned to some degree; when you have so little confidence in your own evidence that you fob it off as 'external sources' or 'security reasons'. We have absolutely no idea how the administration operates internally or what motivates its actions because you refuse to tell us

And all because you hold us in contempt. That comes through in every communique and every individual post from the admins

[Invader Zim]

What a eloquent expose, pulitzer quality my dear...

What was that about pots and kettles you mentioned earlier?

'Pulitzer' is a name, thus capital 'P'. Also it is "an eloquent expose". You should also place a comma in front of "my dear". You see you are seperating... on second thoughts, never mind.

[Le Libérer]

IZ its all in the approach. If you are serious about making improvements here then PM me specifics ideas. I know that the best ideas on how to run this board has always come from the membership.

I'll be waiting for your PM and discussing specifics. But this whole we dont like it so we are going to attack the admins approach doesnt work. Lets talk. PM me.

[RedAnarchist]

What was that about pots and kettles you mentioned earlier?

'Pulitzer' is a name, thus capital 'P'. Also it is "an eloquent expose". You should also place a comma in front of "my dear". You see you are seperating... on second thoughts, never mind.

I know he's Dutch, but even then English is a second language to him.

[Commissar Rykov]

I know he's Dutch, but even then English is a second language to him.
True, we shouldn't expect much out of psycho this is the fellow who uses sexist language towards users and makes rape jokes. So we really shouldn't expect him to type properly while being a snarky ass. At least he isn't a petit-bourgeois liberal politico though, right?

[RedAnarchist]

True, we shouldn't expect much out of psycho this is the fellow who uses sexist language towards users and makes rape jokes. So we really shouldn't expect him to type properly while being a snarky ass. At least he isn't a petit-bourgeois liberal politico though, right?

He was punished for the rape joke back in October, and I can't remember what happened about his use of a sexist word. By the way, I wasn't defending him then because he's an admin, but because English is not his native language and so snarky comments about his linguistic mistakes are not needed.

[Invader Zim]

I know he's Dutch, but even then English is a second language to him.

My point wasn't regarding the standard of his use of the English language, rather that he shouldn't criticise and dismiss the points of others because of the lack of quality of their writing. The moment a person addresses the way a point was written, as opposed to the point itself, is the moment they have effectively admitted they have no serious response.



If you are serious about making improvements here then PM me specifics ideas.

Nothing I have to suggest is personal or even a criticism, it is merely how things used to be or at least how I remember them. I would also like to post them publically so that other people here can input their own ideas/criticisms.

1. Do not close threads. It is unnecessary; it creates the image that the admins are getting the last word in; penalises those individuals who have further constructive suggestions and arguments which ultimately pisses them off. Instead use the edit/split thread function far more frequently. Never, ever, close a thread in which policy or admin/mod actions are being criticised.

2. Be open. There are no such things as "security reasons" that need just be left at that. If a person is plotting, on another board, to troll the forum, hack it, spam it (whatever) screenshot the page and post it for us in a thread here. This entire problem would have been over before it began had you shared with us the details behind your actions as you took them. It would have taken you a few seconds more, as opposed to days of drama and people losing their tempers.

3. Re-write the rules and make sure that the mods and admins stick by what they say. Currently they have little bearing on how mods and admins enforce board behaviour. In fact I suggest that the entire lot be re-written, and board users be invited to propose, discuss and debate what the board rules will look like and what they will contain. Obviously, there need to be a few mandatory ones (no fascists, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc - divulging of personal information (your own or anybody elses)), but the rest should involve at least some user involvement. The architect of these rules need not necessarily employ them and nor does there need to be a vote or anything like that, but they should at least take suggestions and criticism on board and keep them in mind. If nothing else it is just respectful.

4. Make the mod/admin actions thread uniform. Currently some actions are not recorded. Others, which are recorded come with little explaination. Some contain explaination but no link to relevent threads. etc. What I suggest should be done is that the mod/admin write a short statement (maybe only just a line), include a link to the offending post(s)/thread(s) and include relevent quotes. If a vote has been taken in the admin forum, include a breakdown of the numbers.

5. Ensure that mods and admins do not personally get involved in issues which effect them or they have been involved in. So if I insult a mod/admin, that mod/admin has no buisness acting, flag it up and leave it for someone else.

6. Reduce board bureaucracy, just because a thread is in the wrong place is not licence to close it. At most all is required that the thread be moved, though the fact that there were rules stating that certain threads criticising the board should only exist in specific forums was frankly just ridiculous.

7. Give out infractions as a last resort. If necessary introduced a system, of written warning (as we have) followed by a private warning (via PM) and ultimately give out an infraction if the person persists.

8. Do not tell people to cool off, suspend their accounts to make sure they do, etc. It is patronising and will have the opposite effect.

9. During periods of downtime, squash rumours by placing statements on the che-lives website and on the facebook page.

10. Hold yourselves to a higher standard than you expect of members.

[Tim Finnegan]

And as psycho says, we are the #1 leftist message board in the world. Thers a reason for that. We have a winning recipe, we know what that is, and we are sticking to it.
The SWP is the #1 Marxist party in the United Kingdom. If you get where I'm going with this.

[Ele'ill]

Excellent, this thread actually happened last night.

Anyways, I wish those people like Comrade Om and Invader Zim would suddenly take their passion for discussing 'injustice' fully into the real world where their efforts would actually make a difference and where real people who are genuinely hurt and genuinely upset would be able to get helped by them. I'm having a harder and harder time taking this discussion seriously because it's getting more and more dramatic. It's an internet forum, yeah we like it because we get to know certain users and we like talking about various topics but stop talking about this stuff like it's life and death- that's really embarrassing to read.

[Per Levy]

Excellent, this thread actually happened last night.

Anyways, I wish those people like Comrade Om and Invader Zim would suddenly take their passion for discussing 'injustice' fully into the real world where their efforts would actually make a difference and where real people who are genuinely hurt and genuinely upset would be able to get helped by them. I'm having a harder and harder time taking this discussion seriously because it's getting more and more dramatic. It's an internet forum, yeah we like it because we get to know certain users and we like talking about various topics but stop talking about this stuff like it's life and death- that's really embarrassing to read.

then why are you a admin of this forum if you think its a waste of time? why dont you spend the time you "waste" here in order to help people in the real world. comrade om and zim doing constructive critizism and you insult them for it, besides that you probally have not the slightest idea what the 2 are doing outside of revleft.

[Ele'ill]

then why are you a admin of this forum if you think its a waste of time? why dont you spend the time you "waste" here in order to help people in the real world. comrade om and zim doing constructive critizism and you insult them for it, besides that you probally have not the slightest idea what the 2 are doing outside of revleft.

I'm not an admin of this forum I am a global moderator. Using this forum for its intended purpose isn't a waste of time however acting like a gigantic toddler over really silly stuff for weeks, months and years is. I spend my time on here discussing interesting things, when I am not on here I am in the real world getting involved in stuff. At the very least these users who have become hysterical over this non-issue at this point should reconsider their position.

Thanks,

Mari3L

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm not an admin of this forum I am a global moderator. Using this forum for its intended purpose isn't a waste of time however acting like a gigantic toddler over really silly stuff for weeks, months and years is.

Nice use of hyperbole to dismiss all the people you disagree with. Yes, some have used intemperate language in their disagreements with the BA, but that does nothing to obviate the criticism of how this has been handled.


I spend my time on here discussing interesting things, when I am not on here I am in the real world getting involved in stuff. At the very least these users who have become hysterical over this non-issue at this point should reconsider their position.

Which users have become "hysterical"? You fail to show why their arguments have no merit, and if you say they don't have any arguments, well, plenty of other (ex-)users have made more salient and calm posts, examples include the ones made by ComradeOm and Invader Zim above.

[Ele'ill]

Nice use of hyperbole to dismiss all the people you disagree with. Yes, some have used intemperate language in their disagreements with the BA, but that does nothing to obviate the criticism of how this has been handled.

No, what I'm saying is that some, quite a few, people are hysterical. What I didn't say was 'everyone invovled in this is hysterical'. Something else I never said was that I disagree with, partially or in full, their dissenting views.




Which users have become "hysterical"? You fail to show why their arguments have no merit, and if you say they don't have any arguments, well, plenty of other (ex-)users have made more salient and calm posts, examples include the ones made by ComradeOm and Invader Zim above.

I never said they don't have arguments and my criticisms were more geared towards the level of commitment put into their crying about specific topics that even if victorious would lead them no real win at all.

I think it's pretty clear which users engaged in hysterics and on another point my two posts above this one were separate.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

No, what I'm saying is that some, quite a few, people are hysterical. What I didn't say was 'everyone invovled in this is hysterical'. Something else I never said was that I disagree with, partially or in full, their dissenting views.

So what? If people are overreacting, ignore that and concentrate on the actual criticisms, which aren't exactly hard to find.


I never said they don't have arguments and my criticisms were more geared towards the level of commitment put into their crying about specific topics that even if victorious would lead them no real win at all.

Do you really have an objective assessment of how much of their daily efforts people put into this issue? I'm curious as to your methodology.

As for the rest, if the BA was more willing to listen to the membership and take on board their salient criticisms, then maybe we'd get further.


I think it's pretty clear which users engaged in hysterics and on another point my two posts above this one were separate.

That certain (thus far unnamed) users have engaged in hysterics is beside the point. The BA made some unpopular decisions, and when the membership reacted to that, the fact that some of them overr-reacted is being used an excuse to belittle pretty much everyone who disagrees with the BA.

[Ele'ill]

So what? If people are overreacting, ignore that and concentrate on the actual criticisms, which aren't exactly hard to find.

Unfortunately the overreactions caused more of a stir and more of a problem and a lot of the genuine advice/criticisms were drowned. A lot of people jumped on the 'popular talking point' bandwagon. Things got taken way too seriously.




Do you really have an objective assessment of how much of their daily efforts people put into this issue? I'm curious as to your methodology.

Well it starts by reading their posts every day in multiple areas of the forum ..


As for the rest, if the BA was more willing to listen to the membership and take on board their salient criticisms, then maybe we'd get further.

That certain (thus far unnamed) users have engaged in hysterics is beside the point. The BA made some unpopular decisions, and when the membership reacted to that, the fact that some of them overr-reacted is being used an excuse to belittle pretty much everyone who disagrees with the BA.

I most certainly am not using it to belittle everyone who disagrees with the BA I am pointing out that some people need to relax and put things into perspective in order to avoid future hysterics. It's an internet forum. A lot of the reactions are akin to the complaints here in OI by OI'ers that 'OI is a prison we're not allowed to do anything'. Get a grip.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Unfortunately the overreactions caused more of a stir and more of a problem and a lot of the genuine advice/criticisms were drowned. A lot of people jumped on the 'popular talking point' bandwagon. Things got taken way too seriously.

No, what inflamed things was the BA reaction of clamping down on discussion. Besides, what possible harm do a few users hyperventilating present to the site? What actual, measurable threat is presented?


Well it starts by reading their posts every day in multiple areas of the forum ..

And from then on you make assumptions about their personal life? I don't think that's cool.


I most certainly am not using it to belittle everyone who disagrees with the BA I am pointing out that some people need to relax and put things into perspective in order to avoid future hysterics. It's an internet forum. A lot of the reactions are akin to the complaints here in OI by OI'ers that 'OI is a prison we're not allowed to do anything'. Get a grip.

If it's "just a forum" then there's no harm in letting users blow off steam or publicly register complaints, surely?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

But no, they fold or disappear in oblivion because they do a even worse job then us I assume.

I think it has a lot more to do with Revleft's long existence, high standing in search engine results*, huge size, numerous links around the internet, etc.

* e.g. if you type "communist forum" or "leftist forum" into google, revleft is first. Libcom is like 10, below stormfront.

[Ele'ill]

No, what inflamed things was the BA reaction of clamping down on discussion. Besides, what possible harm do a few users hyperventilating present to the site? What actual, measurable threat is presented?

Clamping down on 'discussion' :rolleyes:




And from then on you make assumptions about their personal life? I don't think that's cool.

It was an observation that a lot of people seem to take the forum more seriously than they should. Perhaps another avenue is needed.




If it's "just a forum" then there's no harm in letting users blow off steam or publicly register complaints, surely?

But that isn't what was happening.

[La Comédie Noire]

You aren't going to win against the BA. If it bothers you that much, your best option is to leave the forum and devote your energy to more important things. Maybe if enough people left, they'd have to reconsider their attitudes. You aren't going to get anywhere arguing with them on their message board, not when they can mock you and simply ban you when you become annoying.

Just be glad they aren't in charge of anything important like food or water.

[Prometeo liberado]

Get it. And yes references to RAAN on this site in a blog is a no no from my experience.

[Decolonize The Left]

Nothing I have to suggest is personal or even a criticism, it is merely how things used to be or at least how I remember them. I would also like to post them publically so that other people here can input their own ideas/criticisms.

I appreciate your effort and I will respond to your points despite the fact that I am not in an admin/mod position at the moment.


1. Do not close threads. It is unnecessary; it creates the image that the admins are getting the last word in; penalises those individuals who have further constructive suggestions and arguments which ultimately pisses them off. Instead use the edit/split thread function far more frequently. Never, ever, close a thread in which policy or admin/mod actions are being criticised.

I think this point has two points within it.
The first is that there's an absolutely appropriate time to close threads. Many threads need closing. Some because they're too long, others because they're necroed, others because they are redundant, etc... the point is how one closes a thread. And explanation is usually given and if it's a redundant thread a link should be provided to the better thread.
The second is that some threads need to be closed because they're full of bullshit. This includes threads where people are *****ing about admin actions. Now, with this said, you have an excellent point that sometimes threads are closed arbitrarily because they question decisions. This sort of behavior has become more frequent mostly due to the intensity of the bullshit drama on this board.


2. Be open. There are no such things as "security reasons" that need just be left at that. If a person is plotting, on another board, to troll the forum, hack it, spam it (whatever) screenshot the page and post it for us in a thread here. This entire problem would have been over before it began had you shared with us the details behind your actions as you took them. It would have taken you a few seconds more, as opposed to days of drama and people losing their tempers.

Once again, you have multiple points here. I think there's a line between being open and fanning the flames of trolling. A lot of people aren't involved in the trolling business, but they become involved when all of the drama is out in the open - perhaps. I'm not really sure.


3. Re-write the rules and make sure that the mods and admins stick by what they say. Currently they have little bearing on how mods and admins enforce board behaviour. In fact I suggest that the entire lot be re-written, and board users be invited to propose, discuss and debate what the board rules will look like and what they will contain. Obviously, there need to be a few mandatory ones (no fascists, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc - divulging of personal information (your own or anybody elses)), but the rest should involve at least some user involvement. The architect of these rules need not necessarily employ them and nor does there need to be a vote or anything like that, but they should at least take suggestions and criticism on board and keep them in mind. If nothing else it is just respectful.

I agree. I recall trying to do this when I was an admin.


4. Make the mod/admin actions thread uniform. Currently some actions are not recorded. Others, which are recorded come with little explaination. Some contain explaination but no link to relevent threads. etc. What I suggest should be done is that the mod/admin write a short statement (maybe only just a line), include a link to the offending post(s)/thread(s) and include relevent quotes. If a vote has been taken in the admin forum, include a breakdown of the numbers.

A better plan would be to have a set format which all actions much be recorded - for example:
Action taken: Infraction
Taken by: AugustWest
Taken against: InvaderZim
Reasons for action: Inappropriate language
Link to evidence: http://blahblahblah
If poll involved, end vote: n/a


5. Ensure that mods and admins do not personally get involved in issues which effect them or they have been involved in. So if I insult a mod/admin, that mod/admin has no buisness acting, flag it up and leave it for someone else.

This is already policy, but it's hard to enforce. This could be because members don't report it, or because mods/admins don't respect the rule. Not sure.


6. Reduce board bureaucracy, just because a thread is in the wrong place is not licence to close it. At most all is required that the thread be moved, though the fact that there were rules stating that certain threads criticising the board should only exist in specific forums was frankly just ridiculous.

Threads, as far as I can tell, are usually moved rather than closed. But yes, they should be moved if they are inappropriately located. And no, I don't think that you should be able to 'criticize the board' in any forum or sub-forum. That defeats the entire purposes of having different forums doesn't it?


7. Give out infractions as a last resort. If necessary introduced a system, of written warning (as we have) followed by a private warning (via PM) and ultimately give out an infraction if the person persists.

This is already policy. Whether or not it's implemented is another question.


8. Do not tell people to cool off, suspend their accounts to make sure they do, etc. It is patronising and will have the opposite effect.

I don't think so. I think it's totally appropriate to tell someone to calm down. The point here is that it can be done in a certain way which is not patronizing.


9. During periods of downtime, squash rumours by placing statements on the che-lives website and on the facebook page.

Good point.


10. Hold yourselves to a higher standard than you expect of members.

Cheers.

- August

[Tim Finnegan]

Anyways, I wish those people like Comrade Om and Invader Zim would suddenly take their passion for discussing 'injustice' fully into the real world where their efforts would actually make a difference and where real people who are genuinely hurt and genuinely upset would be able to get helped by them. I'm having a harder and harder time taking this discussion seriously because it's getting more and more dramatic. It's an internet forum, yeah we like it because we get to know certain users and we like talking about various topics but stop talking about this stuff like it's life and death- that's really embarrassing to read.
If it matters that little, then why are the BAs being so defensive about it? Hell, why are you even here telling us that it doesn't matter? Whatever pettiness you are accusing Comrade Om and Invader Zim of applies equally to the BAs, and to yourself- unless this place is worse than I thought and we've actually plunged head-first into the logic of "some more equal than others".

[Ele'ill]

Hell, why are you even here telling us that it doesn't matter? Whatever pettiness you are accusing Comrade Om and Invader Zim of applies equally to the BAs, and to yourself- unless this place is worse than I thought and we've actually plunged head-first into the logic of "some more equal than others".

I can't speak for the BA because I am not BA. I was accusing some users of responding in a hysterical manner. I did not respond in a hysterical manner.

[Chambered Word]

it's pretty telling that given the 'take it or leave it' option is the only one presented to the members who are pissed off about this, many have taken the 'leave it' option and are doing a perfectly decent job of managing other forums with guidelines which are at least as stringent as RevLeft's.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Clamping down on 'discussion' :rolleyes:

Unless you're saying that all the threads now locked and either deleted or hidden trashed (same difference for anyone who isn't a mod) as a result of this debacle were full of nothing but trolling and spamming, then yes that is an example of clamping down on discussion.


It was an observation that a lot of people seem to take the forum more seriously than they should. Perhaps another avenue is needed.

Unless you have some objective evidence that people are expending significant amounts of their time and effort, that is merely your opinion and suffice to say I disagree with it.


But that isn't what was happening.

People were definitely blowing off steam and registering complaints as I remember things. Of course, since those threads have been taken away from public view, the BA and their supporters are free to make up whatever stories suit their purposes.

[PhoenixAsh]

it's pretty telling that given the 'take it or leave it' option is the only one presented to the members who are pissed off about this, many have taken the 'leave it' option and are doing a perfectly decent job of managing other forums with guidelines which are at least as stringent as RevLeft's.


Hence what I said countless of times:

much of the criticism is intelectually dishonest and more geared to who is pulling the strings than which strings are pulled.

Thank you for finally agreeing with me on this.

[Ele'ill]

Unless you're saying that all the threads now locked and either deleted or hidden trashed (same difference for anyone who isn't a mod) as a result of this debacle were full of nothing but trolling and spamming, then yes that is an example of clamping down on discussion.

Not 'nothing but' although quite a bit of it was.



Unless you have some objective evidence that people are expending significant amounts of their time and effort, that is merely your opinion and suffice to say I disagree with it.

Yeah, not so much 'lots of time' but 'over-emotional'. A tantrum. Hysterics.




People were definitely blowing off steam and registering complaints as I remember things. Of course, since those threads have been taken away from public view, the BA and their supporters are free to make up whatever stories suit their purposes.

"registering complaints" as in spamming, threatening, being hysterical...

[PhoenixAsh]

So the posters who have been banned on spurious and indefensible* grounds are to blame for the poor administration of this site? No, there is only one group of people on this site who are "shooting". There's quite a lot of people complaining about this conduct but only the admins have the power and the will to purge the forum

O come on....do not make any illusions about many of the posters who got kicked out of the forum in the last year. Many of them would happilly banned half the forum if the roles were ever reversed. And that is indeed the whole problem of many of the users: intelectual dishonesty.

The problem is that site management only seems to be an issue when somebody him or herself is subjected to the rules...or if one of their friends is. They care fuck all if the very same rule is applied to an unknown user in exactly the same way....or if one of their political opponents gets the ban hammer.

Much of the criticism comes out as criticism for criticisms sake. And THAT is my problem and THAT is what I am saying and YES in doing so they contribute and maintain the problems.

In fact:


What you are doing is assuming that anyone who complains about this conduct, who objects to people being slandered and banned for no good reason, is actually part of the problem. That is quite a perverse bit of logic there and is simply a restatement of the standard admin line - shut up and carry on. It calls for a scenario in which people accept the bullshit excuses provided ("security reasons", "external sources", some vast neo-Nazi conspiracy), and accept being treated like children, while the admins continue to drive the site into the ground

I never said this. But you assume that all criticism is always right no matter the methods of how it is voiced or the intention with which it is voiced.

I never said people should not be able to criticise. In fact I litterally said the opposite. I said they WAY in which some users do so is often dishonest, skewed to arguing for aguings sake, not aimed at solutions and rather aimed at kicking up a shit storm. And I also said that this attitude directly fucks it up for the rest including those who have real intentions of solving issues.

[PhoenixAsh]

I love the accusations of clamping down on discussion in a thread which runs for 12pages and in which most users voice grievances and directly attack or criticise the BA. They do so in a more or less respectful and open manner.

And that illustrates my point I made before.

[PhoenixAsh]

@Invader Zim,

Good points I was about to respond to them untill I say August did an excellent job at voicing what I was thinking in a way better way than I could.

I do wish to add something about your 5th point. This is already policy. But it also is a policy which could enable trolls.

At this point in time...there are two mods and one admin active. If I insult these three people right here...right now....this rule effectively means I have free run of the board because none of these people are allowed to infract me or ban me. As soon as I see another one appear...well...I insult that one too.

So rule imo is fine...but blatant violation of the rules....sometime require violation of another one.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Not 'nothing but' although quite a bit of it was.

Again, so what? I notice you completely ignored the question of what actual harm is caused by people sounding off in the first place, regardless of content.


Yeah, not so much 'lots of time' but 'over-emotional'. A tantrum. Hysterics.

Sure, and locking threads and banning people for vague reasons is a sure-fire way of stopping that. [/sarcasm]


"registering complaints" as in spamming, threatening, being hysterical...

So it can't be both?


I love the accusations of clamping down on discussion in a thread which runs for 12pages and in which most users voice grievances and directly attack or criticise the BA. They do so in a more or less respectful and open manner.

And that illustrates my point I made before.

That this thread has been allowed to continue does not change the fact that the initial threads have been deleted from public view, among other things.

[Chambered Word]

Hence what I said countless of times:

much of the criticism is intelectually dishonest and more geared to who is pulling the strings than which strings are pulled.

Thank you for finally agreeing with me on this.

maybe reading comprehension never was your strong point or you're just a particularly dishonest form of sycophant, but this was never implied or stated in what I wrote. I'm not even completely sure what that sentence means in concrete terms. I merely countered the claims, mostly from psycho, that the rest of us are too stupid and lazy to manage a better forum, or that revleft is somehow the glorious paragon of leftist forums.

[Le Libérer]

IZ I am going to take your suggestions to discussion, seeing you are the only one who obviously does care enough to offer solutions instead of looking for an excuse to bash admins.

Chamber All I can say to you is, maybe you would be happier on your little forum where you do nothing but find ways to attack people in their real lives. Now thats real solutions over there!

Thread closed.