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Zealot
14th December 2011, 00:29
are so fucking reactionary...well not all of them there are some good comrades on here that are muslims and I'm not going to put them into the same category. But after just having left a paltalk room I realized the extent of fundamentalist interpretations that some of them have.

They went on and on for about 2 hours trying to tell me how Muhammad said flies cure diseases if we put them into our drinks and went on to claim it was a "miracle" that science has "confirmed" this. I almost want to propose that religion be outright banned in future socialist societies, these people simply cannot be reasoned with. Nevertheless, I'm keeping my cool.

And every question I brought up about their religion was simply avoided by going "ahhhh but Allah created us and we don't question his wisdom". Such as, when I said if I was God I would eventually let people out of hell for what is basically a thought-crime, if I was sadistic enough to do that in the first place. But noooo it has to be eternal because Allah says so. Then I said that's a huge dilemma because it would make me more merciful than God himself which was of course countered with "but ohhh if you look over here at how the universe is so awesome you have to accept that God is all-merciful and you're an ignorant human".

They asked if I had read the quran to which I said yes. And I knew what was coming because it's happened a million times. I was told I need to read all the Hadiths (which I've done) and then the commentaries. The typical last argument they come out with is that I have to learn arabic to actually understand everything. Then they had stupid questions like how many hadiths Sahih Bukhari had or what such and such arabic word meant. What's saddening is that most of them haven't done it themselves, they just send you on huge missions until you come back and they say "Oh cool man we actually haven't read all that ourselves but good one".

On and fucking on.

Most Christians I've met eventually come around to the logical conclusion and have enough guts to admit when they're wrong. Of course, the situation may be different in the USA but that's my personal experience.

Then they found out I was a communist and booted me from the room because apparently communism has killed 999999 godzillions of people. Lol.

We have a lot of work to do, let's all have a moment of silence for the comrades in muslim countries trying to liberate the working class because their struggle must be as hard as the amount of people communism has killed. 9999999 godzillions

And that's my rant on religion which I don't like to do but damn that fly thing was both fucking sad and hilarious. Please, for the love of God, do not dip flies into your drinks to cure your diseases.

The Douche
14th December 2011, 00:33
welp...

Aloysius
14th December 2011, 00:41
My view on religion is that it doesn't matter if there's a god, I don't have to worship it.

Zealot
14th December 2011, 00:49
My view on religion is that it doesn't matter if there's a god, I don't have to worship it.

The point is that the extent of the fundamentalism from even these self-proclaimed moderates is a huge barrier to revolution. This of course would be quite obvious to most of us but this was sort of my epiphany, lol, because I've never run into such stupidity that flies in a cup of water can cure diseases.

Nox
20th December 2011, 14:23
Who feels like burning a Quran?

Rafiq
20th December 2011, 15:07
Why don't you argue against their miracles instead? For example almost all of the science incthe Koran was science developed by Persians, Greeks, Romans, and who the fuck knows lost civilizations in Arabia. Muhammad surrounded himself with very intelligent and well read people.

What he did was to try and reform Meccan society using a made up religion. He started to get arrogant and left a legacy for his "closed circle") to start an empire.

Chambered Word
20th December 2011, 15:14
Most Christians I've met eventually come around to the logical conclusion and have enough guts to admit when they're wrong.

maybe if you were the superior logical genius you seem to think you are you'd realize there's probably selection bias here. for the record, there are some incredibly closeminded Christian fundamentalists out there, also your rant on Muslims was boring.

hatzel
20th December 2011, 15:55
The point is that the extent of the fundamentalism from even these self-proclaimed moderates is a huge barrier to revolution. This of course would be quite obvious to most of us but this was sort of my epiphany, lol, because I've never run into such stupidity that flies in a cup of water can cure diseases.

Yes. I see how putting flies in a cup of water upholds the capitalist system. Really I do. In fact it's the most reactionary thing I can think of...one minute you're putting flies in a cup of water, the next you're sending revolutionaries to the gallows. It's an inevitable progression. Historical materialism, that is...

Oh, and I know this isn't actually a serious subforum or anything, so it's kind of silly of me to try to make actual points, but anybody with even a basic grasp of the placebo effect and ethnopharmacy will know that flies in a cup of water can cure diseases. Or would you like to deny this?

Zealot
20th December 2011, 16:31
maybe if you were the superior logical genius you seem to think you are you'd realize there's probably selection bias here. for the record, there are some incredibly closeminded Christian fundamentalists out there, also your rant on Muslims was boring.

I never claimed to be a "superior logical genius" and there was no bias selection, in fact before this I had the impression that Muslims were more reasonable than Christians because of what their book says about being reasonable. I know there are closeminded Christians but they aren't common in my neck of the woods and they aren't the ones running for elections in my country.


Yes. I see how putting flies in a cup of water upholds the capitalist system. Really I do. In fact it's the most reactionary thing I can think of...one minute you're putting flies in a cup of water, the next you're sending revolutionaries to the gallows. It's an inevitable progression. Historical materialism, that is...

Nice strawman there. This was only part of a 2hour long conversation in which they brought up inane arguments along with this absurdity. They supported the monarchies in the middle east and various other insane notions.


Oh, and I know this isn't actually a serious subforum or anything, so it's kind of silly of me to try to make actual points, but anybody with even a basic grasp of the placebo effect and ethnopharmacy will know that flies in a cup of water can cure diseases. Or would you like to deny this?

Except they weren't arguing that it was a placebo but that their prophet commanded them to submerge flies in their drinks if they fall in because a fly with a disease has a cure in it's wings. They went on at lengths to try and convince me that fly wings have cures. To give you an idea of diseases that flies can carry: http://library.thinkquest.org/C0117442/html/diseases.html

Zealot
20th December 2011, 16:34
Why don't you argue against their miracles instead? For example almost all of the science incthe Koran was science developed by Persians, Greeks, Romans, and who the fuck knows lost civilizations in Arabia. Muhammad surrounded himself with very intelligent and well read people.

What he did was to try and reform Meccan society using a made up religion. He started to get arrogant and left a legacy for his "closed circle") to start an empire.

We touched on some of that for a little but this was supposedly their trump card scientific miracle of the hadith:

"If a housefly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink),
for the one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure of the disease." [Bukhari, vol. 4: 537].

Ismail
20th December 2011, 21:18
I almost want to propose that religion be outright banned in future socialist societies, these people simply cannot be reasoned with. Nevertheless, I'm keeping my cool.Well, Enver Hoxha was basically an atheist before he turned 15 (thanks to his uncle, not some traumatic moment with a religious person) and his desire to completely outlaw religion was rooted in various historical and some modern justifications, particularly the fact that religion played a significant role in the atrocious status of women in Albania before the national liberation war and that it historically struck at the very concept of a Albanian nation (the Greek Patriarchs called Orthodox Christian Albanians "Greeks" and the Ottoman Empire deemed Muslim Albanians "Turks" and territorial claims were based on such rationales).

Hoxha didn't talk with a particularly dogmatic religious person one day and go "FGSFDS" and decide to ban religion. That's just lame.

On a semi-related note, Hoxha in his journal actually called the Quran "more complete and purer" than the Bible and the Torah even through he held all religion in contempt. It's amusing how family backgrounds can do that.