The British (and maybe European) liberal-left and the EU

[ed miliband]

is there any particular reason for such strong support of the EU amongst what might be described as the liberal-left? to the extent that mainstream british politics seems to be set up on the false dichotomy that being pro-EU = left-wing and being anti-EU = right-wing.

people who'll typically point to 70s sweden as an example of how society should be (presumably under the impression social democratic sweden still exists...), or claim some sort of moralistic opposition to neoliberalism, will fall over themselves to proclaim their support the EU.

part of it seems to be a weird sorta "internationalism" - opponents of the EU must all be xenophobic, not wanting to embrace a european brothers and sisters. but then there's also a really nationalistic element to it; typically the eu will be defended because without it britain could not be "strong" or whatever.

another element seems to be an knee jerk reaction to right-wing euroscepticism - "well if they don't like it it must be good", etc.

i guess you could also bring in the idea someone comes up with in that thread about liberals: liberals aren't opposed to the status quo, they just think the wrong people are in charge. every institution could be good if it was led by people with good intentions, or whatever.

but that's all speculation...

[Q]

The point is not so much about xenofobism or any kneejerk responses to the rightwing (nationalism does play a big part on the left's opposition towards the EU though, such as with the Morning Star's CPB "Britains Road to Socialism"). It's is much more about the fact that there are no national roads out of capitalism. We can start to offer a positive alternative if we pose a continental alternative however and, since that "playing field" is already occupied by the EU and other such institutions, we need to engage with it. We need to organise the working class throughout the continent for a pan-European political project.

I've written more extensively about the subject here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?b=6552).

[ed miliband]

eh, thanks, but not quite what i'm getting at.

a more solid example: my friend was going on about how terrible cameron's decision to veto this treaty was, how britain needed to be in the EU to be "strong" (or a word to that effect), etc. moments later he was slagging off neoliberalism and austerity measures. now as i understand it the treaty would give the EU much more power to impose austerity measures and so on, yet he didn't see the contradiction within his position.

[Blake's Baby]

It would give the EU more power to impose austerity measures on (perceived) failed economies like Greece, but Britain doesn't think it's like Greece. In Britain, people believe (as far as I can tell) that the problem in Greece is because the Greeks overspent, and some people think Labour did to, but in general I think most people reckon the austerity measures are too far too fast. So the EU wouldn't impose austerity on the UK, it would slow it down.

Whether that's all cognitive dissonance or not I don't know, but that's my reading. We think we're more like Germany than Greece - a basically healthy economy that got a bit out of control but can be brought back to stability - not a systemically fucked catastrophe of an economy.

Oh, yeah, and the whole 'little Englander' thing really puts a whole lot of people off. Sure the Old Left was anti-EU because it was a club for capitalists, but the newer left was pro-EU because they realised the anti-EU stance was the natural home of xenophobes, bigots and nazi sympathisers.

[Tim Finnegan]

I think that part of it is also a sort of repressed republicans. It's a sad fact that bourgeois republicanism is a complete non-started in the UK, so pretending that the EU can be their "United States of Europe", with a constitution and a presidency and all that nonsense, helps alleviate the despair which necessarily accompanies adherence to an historically obsolete ideology in the otherwise rational mind. But, that may just be cynicism on my part; you'd probably need to do a country-by-country investigation to see if that actually had any legs.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Rightwingers in this country tend to be Anti-EU on the premise they'd rather have an Englishman screw them than a Belgian. Nationalism at it's most cretinous.

[Renegade Saint]

I think the best way to describe the EU would be bureaucratic centralism.

Anyone who is interested in worker's power and grassroots democracy should oppose it. One only need look at the draconian agreement the EU (minus UK) reached today to see that it's a neoliberal institution aiming to replace people's choice with rule by bureaucrats and "technocrats".

Fortunately it seems to be imploding under its own weight (or due to its own internal contradictions).

[Cencus]

The EU has been seen by some as a balance against the rabid right wing policies of The Conservatives & New Labour. Paid holidays, the end of 70+ hour weeks, guarenteed rest days, human rights law, and many other progressive initiatives all came from the EU.

When you see what the Tories do in comparison the EU does look a better place if you are a reformist.