the "Why Care Even" theory

[Ultimateman]

i have been thinking about a theory, a theory that i call the "Why Care Even"
theory

I am not religious person, and i don't know if i believe in a creator or a divine force or whatever, guess im agnostic....

even though i have been leaning more towards the left in my life.. i want to have a serious discussion about this

even though i want real radical change in the system, there is a small part of me, inside of me that talks about the "Why Care Even" theory, and that is

We are going to die, our lives are temporary, we are just little specs in this universe.... why even fight for communism, socialism, anti-capitalism, because in the true end, were all going to die, and be dust and bones.... it seems were fighting for something, which i believe in, but it will all be "Temporary" and its not going to matter when we pass, and wherever we go "heaven, ultimate paradise" I don't have these answers...

it seems were fighting for a "temporary system" cause in the end all these systems are temporary, capitalism, socialism.. everyone is going to pass away in the ultimate end..... cause there will be an end, were not going to live forever..

i guess im just looking at life at a more cosmic square, i am far-left.. but i just i guess i keep questing "deeper" things

what do you guys think

[Blake's Baby]

I think one life is all we get and I see no reason why mine should be shit because some other bastard has the game rigged in his favour.

If you want a shit life, sure, why care even?

[ClearlyChrist]

The Reason We Should Care, Is So That Matters Are Not Quite As Dim For Others In Future. Your Theory Just Advocates A Selfish Attitude, We Have The World To Gain, And It Won't Change With That Mindset.

[dodger]

" we are just little specs in this universe........."

Maybe so, but don't allow those bastards to tell you that..........Ultimateman.

[Kronsteen]

It sounds like you're looking for a religious experience - a feeling of connection to the cosmic, the eternal.

There's no reason why you can't have a religious faith and be a socialist (even a revolutionary marxist). Marxism talks about how organised religion is both the wishful thinking of the oppressed and a tool of oppression - but he doesn't talk about existence or not of something numinous or divine.

Of course, Marx and most marxists are definite atheists, but you can certainly be a spiritual or humanistic marxist. I've met plenty who are. I think they're wrong, but they exist.

[Rafiq]

Because we're all selfish, dumb ape bastards and the shit we're running right now isn't working anymore and can't work because it's flawed, so we gotta find a new way to organize ourselves, and the best way is probably if the workers take class power. Also life for a proletarian isn't so neat as well.

[Le Rouge]

The Reason We Should Care, Is So That Matters Are Not Quite As Dim For Others In Future. Your Theory Just Advocates A Selfish Attitude, We Have The World To Gain, And It Won't Change With That Mindset.

Can't read shit. :crying:

[Alvaro]

Sometimes I ask myself the same question, why do I even care? But I do care so I try to put my grain of sand to the cause.

[Ele'ill]

i have been thinking about a theory, a theory that i call the "Why Care Even"
theory

I am not religious person, and i don't know if i believe in a creator or a divine force or whatever, guess im agnostic....

even though i have been leaning more towards the left in my life.. i want to have a serious discussion about this

even though i want real radical change in the system, there is a small part of me, inside of me that talks about the "Why Care Even" theory, and that is

We are going to die, our lives are temporary, we are just little specs in this universe.... why even fight for communism, socialism, anti-capitalism, because in the true end, were all going to die, and be dust and bones.... it seems were fighting for something, which i believe in, but it will all be "Temporary" and its not going to matter when we pass, and wherever we go "heaven, ultimate paradise" I don't have these answers...

it seems were fighting for a "temporary system" cause in the end all these systems are temporary, capitalism, socialism.. everyone is going to pass away in the ultimate end..... cause there will be an end, were not going to live forever..

i guess im just looking at life at a more cosmic square, i am far-left.. but i just i guess i keep questing "deeper" things

what do you guys think

While we're alive we feel. We know the coming generations feel. I don't want those in the future to suffer as I and others have.

[Ocean Seal]

I care because revolution means making my life less shitty, and it means making everyone else's less shitty as well. So if I could make everyone's lives systematically less shitty, I think that's something worth striving for. Its the human experience eh. Why discover, why fight, why reach something new. Because there are a lot of things which are wrong with the way that things are. And we need change even if we'll only see it for a short while.

[Ultimateman]

I care because revolution means making my life less shitty, and it means making everyone else's less shitty as well. So if I could make everyone's lives systematically less shitty, I think that's something worth striving for. Its the human experience eh. Why discover, why fight, why reach something new. Because there are a lot of things which are wrong with the way that things are. And we need change even if we'll only see it for a short while.

but see, all your really doing is Artificially changing the system.. capitalism, communism is all artificial systems... if you ask me anarchism is the true essence of life..... true essence of nature.... when humans first arived, they were in a state of anarchism, not capitalism or communism.. but im sure i will get a debate here...

anyways.. if we have a revolution, we accomplish something then 500 years later, there is a brand new system..... we went through a revolution, killed people, for what a artificial tempoary change.... at the very end, the earth will have no more people on the planet, it will be a wasteland..so what happens then... we are going to die anyways

you guys got to start looking at stuff at a more cosmic level.. instead of a short term gain... which sorry to say is communism

now i am far-left.. but i been question things lately.... so that is just my opinion

[Ultimateman]

That's good that you arrive to this insight. Yup, death comes to all of us. And it's not something that happens in some distant future, it could happen at any moment. Why stress over so much issue in life? When ultimately it will not matter. It has help me to live a carefree life thus far. I still support causes that improves the human condition but I never let a lost cause upset me.

in a nutshell

[ckaihatsu]

but see, all your really doing is Artificially changing the system.. capitalism, communism is all artificial systems...


By this definition *all* human activity is "artificial" and all exercises of conscious will are then misguided -- you're treading on the boundary of a religious mindset if this is your take here....





if you ask me anarchism is the true essence of life..... true essence of nature.... when humans first arived, they were in a state of anarchism, not capitalism or communism.. but im sure i will get a debate here...


This is a *defeatist* line that says we can't use our faculties of imagination and creativity to actively *shape* the world as we like. Looking to past conditions for instruction or inspiration is a sign of desperation in lieu of having new ideas at hand that are good enough to organize around.





anyways.. if we have a revolution, we accomplish something then 500 years later, there is a brand new system..... we went through a revolution, killed people, for what a artificial tempoary change.... at the very end, the earth will have no more people on the planet, it will be a wasteland..so what happens then... we are going to die anyways

you guys got to start looking at stuff at a more cosmic level.. instead of a short term gain... which sorry to say is communism

now i am far-left.. but i been question things lately.... so that is just my opinion


Politics is *not* cosmic -- the context is definitely different.

[#FF0000]

but see, all your really doing is Artificially changing the system.. capitalism, communism is all artificial systems... if you ask me anarchism is the true essence of life..... true essence of nature.... when humans first arived, they were in a state of anarchism, not capitalism or communism.. but im sure i will get a debate here...

That's not strictly true. First of all, some early human societies were rather structured and not anarchic. Secondly, calling the ones that were "anarchic" is an anachronism. Anarchism is a 19th century (right?) political theory, as is communism.

Are they "artificial"? Well uh, people made them up. They're concepts in the human mind, or whatever, so yeah. But that's sort of irrelevant because the concepts and all that are just ways to understand how society works now and how to change that to a world where people do not suffer, and do not want. That isn't artificial at all, now, is it?


That's good that you arrive to this insight. Yup, death comes to all of us. And it's not something that happens in some distant future, it could happen at any moment. Why stress over so much issue in life?

It's funny you should mention death, seeing as one of the greatest horrors one might feel before death is the realization that they've left no legacy, that they'll be forgotten, that their life hasn't amounted to anything in even the smallest of ways -- and that they'll leave their life unfulfilled, unrealized.

So, there's that. Care because helping others and helping to change the world for the better is fulfilling and does make a difference, however small.

Of course, there's also the fact that the vastness of space, the absolute enormity of the universe, really isn't my concern. I'm a human being in a miserable world full of needless suffering that I might be able to help stop, if only I try.

Meanwhile the universe is big and I'm little. Why care even?

[Veovis]

We may be squishy, transient ape-like bags of mostly water and electrolytes, but that's just one way of looking at it.

We are also the end-product of 3,500,000,000 years of biological evolution. You and I represent an unbroken chain of birth, struggle, survival, and reproduction stretching back through the immense depths of geological time.

Humanity is the only (that we know of so far) example of a species that can concieve of life, death, and its own place in the universe. The universe is a part of us and we are a part of it. That's something to be proud of, isn't it?

"We are all connected - to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically."
-Neil deGrasse Tyson

"We are a way for the universe to know itself."
-Carl Sagan

[black magick hustla]

as an astrophysicist ill tell u people in existential crises care more about the vastness of the universe, than the vastness of the universe cares about you. embrace the meaninglessness of everything

[The Insurrection]

Shouldn't this belong in philosophy?

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think your thoughts are particularly "deep". They are a collection of very basic and generic philosophical positions.

Ultimately there is no concrete reason why you should care about the world around you, you simply have to find a reason. Much like you continuously find a reason to not kill yourself. Because that's where your logic leads you. You are basically saying that life and your/our actions are meaningless and pointless, so in that case why do you continue to live? If nothing means anything and everything is pointless what is the point of maintaining your existence? If we are to follow your train of thought why haven't you killed yourself?

Meaninglessness is the blank canvas in which to create meaning; by embracing this meaninglessness you are embracing the possibilities to discover meaning. What else would you do? What is the alternative except nothingness?

[The Insurrection]

"We are a way for the universe to know itself."
-Carl Sagan

What a lovely sentiment.

[Desperado]

I'd recommend a read of some atheist or absurdist existentialism. It's therapeutic, though there's not a definite "objective" answer. It's just the human condition. If your thoughts goes beyond musings and into inertia and depression, look harder for the things you care about. The looking in itself is meaningful.

[ckaihatsu]

(Just remembered that my own political statement at my profile blends the cosmic and the political....)


http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=16162




Political Statement

[1] The sun shines down at just the right intensity -- neither too little or too much -- to force an intricate interplay of organic materials animated by the sun's energy. The living processes build up to higher levels of nestedness, interdependence, and complexity. The abundance of available food and source materials -- varying depending on location and era -- allows each organism ample time outside of securing necessities to become increasingly aware and conscious of greater depths of complexity in the external (and internal) world(s). Greater consciousness yields greater abilities and at some point humanity began to procure more food than it could consume in realtime. This development gave rise to a separation of roles in society whereby some could spend more time increasing their awareness while others worked to produce the food for all of society. Those relieved of having to work rationalized themselves as somehow different and better than all other people, and explained their privilege by inventing fictional supernatural beings, or a single supernatural being, who conveniently backed up their reasoning. They consolidated their privileged social position with the use of violent physical force, which the fictional supernatural beings or being said was okay. Meanwhile the rest of humanity has either been working or trying to enjoy their more-or-less similar physical existence as everyone else. Much time and effort, though, is unrecoverably lost due to the existence of those in privileged positions.

[2] I am personally *not* in a privileged position.

[3] Therefore it is in my own best personal interest to co-produce a social world that is relieved of the class division.

[4] Therefore I am a Marxist and active at RevLeft.com.


http://tinyurl.com/ckaihatsu-ideology

[The Insurrection]

i have been thinking about a theory, a theory that i call the "Why Care Even"
theory

I am not religious person, and i don't know if i believe in a creator or a divine force or whatever, guess im agnostic....

even though i have been leaning more towards the left in my life.. i want to have a serious discussion about this

even though i want real radical change in the system, there is a small part of me, inside of me that talks about the "Why Care Even" theory, and that is

We are going to die, our lives are temporary, we are just little specs in this universe.... why even fight for communism, socialism, anti-capitalism, because in the true end, were all going to die, and be dust and bones.... it seems were fighting for something, which i believe in, but it will all be "Temporary" and its not going to matter when we pass, and wherever we go "heaven, ultimate paradise" I don't have these answers...

it seems were fighting for a "temporary system" cause in the end all these systems are temporary, capitalism, socialism.. everyone is going to pass away in the ultimate end..... cause there will be an end, were not going to live forever..

i guess im just looking at life at a more cosmic square, i am far-left.. but i just i guess i keep questing "deeper" things

what do you guys think

As per Desperado's suggestion, you should read The Outsider (sometimes known as The Stranger, which is the literal translation) by Albert Camus. Albert Camus (pronounced Al-bear Cam-oo) was the primary philosopher of absurdism.

[Firebrand]

My advice is to stop contemplating your own navel. It will only make you feel irrelevent and miserable. Yes the universe is vast and you are a tiny speck within it, but that doesn't mean it is healthy to dwell on it too much. Think about the things that make you happy and the things that make you angry, basically focus on active emotions don't waste time contemplating things that make you feel powerless and insignificant, that only supports the status quo. Trust me you will feel a lot better.

[the last donut of the night]

your theory could be very easily inverted: why give up? why not care? we´re little miserable shits, yeah, but if we´re all gonna die in the next 100 million years we might as well spend some of it living a good life. is it gonna be hard? yeah, but so is living a short life on this brutish planet. let´s try it out and see how it works

[Blake's Baby]

After your description of things being shit, I read that last bit as "...on this British planet".

Britain's quite a dismal country, is all I'm saying. Our national sport is complaining about things to people who can't do anything about it.