discussion on predjuidiced language (split from OWS-LA thread)

[Chicano Shamrock]

Maybe next time, don't use the sexist language of the oppressors to make your point.

Also more than 1/2 of the working class is female and therefore have no balls.

Say what you want when hanging out with friends who know you, but this site and the radical left in general wants to be taken seriously as people who fight against sexism, so calling people who are weak or cowardly "pussies" hurts that effort.
I think everyone knows "no balls" is not a literal phrase. I don't consider any of that sexist. I think you may just be a little too into being super PC guy.

I won't write "women" as "womyn" either. Thanks.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think everyone knows "no balls" is not a literal phrase. I don't consider any of that sexist. I think you may just be a little too into being super PC guy.
I probably would have ignored the "no balls" thing if you hadn't just called people pussies twice in the same post.


I won't write "women" as "womyn" either. Thanks.Neither do I, as I said above, the point is not about liberal moralist PC, but about not alienating working class people or allowing them to think we don't take oppression seriously.

But when it comes down to it, my understanding is that this website also just has a policy on that particular word. You've probably been up all night, adrenaline and everything, so it's not a big deal I'd rather hear about what you saw and experienced at the raid, but you'll probably get a restriction or something if you call people "pussies".

[Chicano Shamrock]

I probably would have ignored the "no balls" thing if you hadn't just called people pussies twice in the same post.

Neither do I, as I said above, the point is not about liberal moralist PC, but about not alienating working class people or allowing them to think we don't take oppression seriously.

But when it comes down to it, my understanding is that this website also just has a policy on that particular word. You've probably been up all night, adrenaline and everything, so it's not a big deal I'd rather hear about what you saw and experienced at the raid, but you'll probably get a restriction or something if you call people "pussies".

I think you would alienate more people by trying to change common vernacular. I have never heard of this policy here at revleft. I don't see calling someone a "dick" as being offensive to males either. These aren't sexist remarks.

As for the raid I wasn't there tonight. I went the night before this raid and I saw that the cops could easily do what they wanted. There was maybe 2% of the Occupy willing to stop the cops from entering into the camp and taking everything away.

The rest were hippies or pus... weak androgynous people of no gender or noticeable sexual characteristics. One guy had the number to the national lawyers guild on his arm incase he was arrested but he was pleading with me to get away from the cops because they were going to arrest me.

He was pretending like he was going to be a super hero and get arrested and call a lawyer and then was shitting bricks that people were actually going to get arrested. Of course we were going to get arrested that is part of the deal in confronting the cops.

[The Douche]

I think everyone knows "no balls" is not a literal phrase. I don't consider any of that sexist. I think you may just be a little too into being super PC guy.

I won't write "women" as "womyn" either. Thanks.

Hey guy, stop using alienating language. Just stop, and drop the discussion around it, you violated the board's rules.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I think you would alienate more people by trying to change common vernacular. I have never heard of this policy here at revleft. I don't see calling someone a "dick" as being offensive to males either. These aren't sexist remarks.

As for the raid I wasn't there tonight. I went the night before this raid and I saw that the cops could easily do what they wanted. There was maybe 2% of the Occupy willing to stop the cops from entering into the camp and taking everything away.

The rest were hippies or pus... weak androgynous people of no gender or noticeable sexual characteristics. One guy had the number to the national lawyers guild on his arm incase he was arrested but he was pleading with me to get away from the cops because they were going to arrest me.

He was pretending like he was going to be a super hero and get arrested and call a lawyer and then was shitting bricks that people were actually going to get arrested. Of course we were going to get arrested that is part of the deal in confronting the cops.

Board rules prohibits the use of sexist, racist and homophobic language. Get over it.

[R_P_A_S]

I probably would have ignored the "no balls" thing if you hadn't just called people pussies twice in the same post.

Neither do I, as I said above, the point is not about liberal moralist PC, but about not alienating working class people or allowing them to think we don't take oppression seriously.

But when it comes down to it, my understanding is that this website also just has a policy on that particular word. You've probably been up all night, adrenaline and everything, so it's not a big deal I'd rather hear about what you saw and experienced at the raid, but you'll probably get a restriction or something if you call people "pussies".


unfortunately.. in the real world.. in the streets.. this is how we express our selves. That's a fact. We don't have time be SUPER UBBER Politiclally Correct. You know why we are here.. we hate injustice and believe in revolution. over look the pity shit and lets focus on the point. We are not sexist.. if a word or two slips up on how we have been brought up to express our selves in our neighborhoods.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I think everyone knows "no balls" is not a literal phrase. I don't consider any of that sexist. I think you may just be a little too into being super PC guy.

I won't write "women" as "womyn" either. Thanks.

no mames pinche wey

[The Douche]

unfortunately.. in the real world.. in the streets.. this is how we express our selves. That's a fact. We don't have time be SUPER UBBER Politiclally Correct. You know why we are here.. we hate injustice and believe in revolution. over look the pity shit and lets focus on the point. We are not sexist.. if a word or two slips up on how we have been brought up to express our selves in our neighborhoods.

This isn't your world or your streets, this is revleft, where you agree not to use sexist language. I said drop it. I mean it.

We don't tolerate sexist language, I don't care if you think its sexist or not.


And furthermore, if I heard you say this on the street, I would call you out on it in the same way its being called out in this thread. Its unacceptable.


Lets drop the issue, and drop the sexist language.

[Le Socialiste]

Yes non-violent pussies that were chanting "give the cops a raise" the night before when they were in riot gear waiting for the order.

Monday night they saw that everyone down there was a pussy and tonight they easily took it.

If anything could be done by this Occupy thing I think it would be to create some kind of class consciousness but I am really put off by how many people that were there had no balls what so ever.

Oh well I was getting tired of the fucking hippies and their stupid drum circles anyways. Hey white kid with dreads, put on some fucking shoes and set that tambourine down.

Not to derail the thread any further, but by calling the protesters "pussies" you insinuate that they are weak-willed and/or weak-minded (simply "inferior" and "fearful" in the face of a police presence). This kind of language tries to equate these "weak" and "fearful" qualities with a female's genitalia, which is, frankly, sexist by nature. It's not a matter of political correctness so much as it is a conscious decision made by the members of this site to take an active stance against that kind of attitude. You'll either have to accept this or face restriction (or worse) by the mods/admin.

As for the OP, I managed to watch a bit of what happened on a live feed last night before they made the press leave. I didn't hang around much after that - how long did things drag out?

[eyedrop]

What are some goods non-sexist synonyms for pussies? Wimp? All the other ones I can think have a slight homophobic overtone.

[The Douche]

What are some goods non-sexist synonyms for pussies? Wimp? All the other ones I can think have a slight homophobic overtone.

Spineless, cowards, scared, weak-willed. Off the top of my head.

[The Douche]

This language is alienating and offensive to paraplegics, right?

Paraplegic people have spines.

But go ahead and make light of men using language which is derogatory towards women, we're all very impressed.

[RED DAVE]

Spineless
This language is alienating and offensive to paraplegics, right?That's a joke, right?

The term "spineless" is derived from invertebrate animals, like worms and jellyfish, who have no backbones, and are incapable of resistance.

(Yes, ants, hornets, wasps, etc., have no backbones, but they can fight. It's a metaphor!)

RED DAVE

[Rocky Rococo]

unfortunately.. in the real world.. in the streets.. this is how we express our selves. That's a fact. We don't have time be SUPER UBBER Politiclally Correct. You know why we are here.. we hate injustice and believe in revolution. over look the pity shit and lets focus on the point. We are not sexist.. if a word or two slips up on how we have been brought up to express our selves in our neighborhoods.

Leaving aside any political discussion as to what it says about the level of human understanding and solidarity with the oppressed of those who use degrading language and revel in doing so. Women make up more than half the working class. They end up getting the shit end of the stick economically and socially right across the board. From having done many years of community organizing, let me tell you right now that your deepest untapped pool of support, by far, is working class women in their 40s. There's reasons for that which i could detail at length. But what you need to know before you even start is they don't like talk about "pussies" this and that kind of belligerently hypermacho rhetoric, OK? What possible purpose could it serve to use language that alienates your largest possible pool of possible allies? What sense does that make at all?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Sorry but some of these posts look like they come out of sociological text books on "anthropological studies of women workers" or something.

I'm not going to try to justify the use of discriminatory language at all, but to claim "women workers don't like talk about pussies" or whatever is just totally insane.

If you met some of the "women workers" I know, and heard some of the things they say, you'd probably have a panic attack. Suffice it to say I've heard the word "pussy" and a lot worse than that from these folks... at the dinner table... on Easter Sunday.

Have you ever been to a mine? A factory? A construction site? A bus garage? A warehouse? You'll hear enough "bad words" in an hour to fill the margins of your Noam Chomsky linguistics book.

I think the left's attempt at stuff like policing language probably alienates more workers than anything else.

Again, I'm not trying to justify the use of this kind of speech, but simply to inject a little bit of reality. I'm also not interested in left-wing recruitment, so feel free to carry on with your campaign.

[Agnapostate]

I agree, but there may also be a point about the difference between casual spoken conversations with friends that you know you have similar social or cultural backgrounds with and written exchanges with (generally) anonymous socialists on the Internet.

[R_P_A_S]

Leaving aside any political discussion as to what it says about the level of human understanding and solidarity with the oppressed of those who use degrading language and revel in doing so. Women make up more than half the working class. They end up getting the shit end of the stick economically and socially right across the board. From having done many years of community organizing, let me tell you right now that your deepest untapped pool of support, by far, is working class women in their 40s. There's reasons for that which i could detail at length. But what you need to know before you even start is they don't like talk about "pussies" this and that kind of belligerently hypermacho rhetoric, OK? What possible purpose could it serve to use language that alienates your largest possible pool of possible allies? What sense does that make at all?

DROP IT!

I haven't disrespected a women since I was probably 15 years old (I called a classmate a stupid *****, word got to my dad and he kicked my ass).. I'm 30 now. Get over your self.

[Art Vandelay]

This language is alienating and offensive to paraplegics, right?

I think this is a good example of how the accusations of discriminatory language go a little too far at times on this forum.

[The Douche]

Sorry but some of these posts look like they come out of sociological text books on "anthropological studies of women workers" or something.

I'm not going to try to justify the use of discriminatory language at all, but to claim "women workers don't like talk about pussies" or whatever is just totally insane.

If you met some of the "women workers" I know, and heard some of the things they say, you'd probably have a panic attack. Suffice it to say I've heard the word "pussy" and a lot worse than that from these folks... at the dinner table... on Easter Sunday.

Have you ever been to a mine? A factory? A construction site? A bus garage? A warehouse? You'll hear enough "bad words" in an hour to fill the margins of your Noam Chomsky linguistics book.

I think the left's attempt at stuff like policing language probably alienates more workers than anything else.

Again, I'm not trying to justify the use of this kind of speech, but simply to inject a little bit of reality. I'm also not interested in left-wing recruitment, so feel free to carry on with your campaign.


"Bad words" is not the same as sexist/alienating language.

My girlfriend freely talks about her pussy, but will quickly give me a sideways glance for calling somebody a pussy. Surely you see the difference?


If somebody in chit chat made a thread about "crushing some pussy", I would probably make fun of them for sounding like a total moron, but I don't think they'd deserve an infraction. (though somebody who talks like that is likely to make some other dubious comments)

[R_P_A_S]

thanks for hijacking my thread "dicks" lol

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

My girlfriend freely talks about her pussy, but will quickly give me a sideways glance for calling somebody a pussy. Surely you see the difference?

I would except that, like I said, many of the women workers I know call people pussies and much "worse" things than that. Since I was responding to a claim that women workers (which is obviously not a heterogeneous group) don't want hear "talk about pussies," that was the point.

[Ele'ill]

Regarding women using sexist language- someone's willing participation within a harmful social system or social set doesn't legitimize that system or make it less harmful. It's not desirable under any circumstances.

Now can we please talk about the LA eviction and stuff.

[Adorno4498]

...
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"pussy";)

[A Marxist Historian]

Sorry but some of these posts look like they come out of sociological text books on "anthropological studies of women workers" or something.

I'm not going to try to justify the use of discriminatory language at all, but to claim "women workers don't like talk about pussies" or whatever is just totally insane.

If you met some of the "women workers" I know, and heard some of the things they say, you'd probably have a panic attack. Suffice it to say I've heard the word "pussy" and a lot worse than that from these folks... at the dinner table... on Easter Sunday.

Have you ever been to a mine? A factory? A construction site? A bus garage? A warehouse? You'll hear enough "bad words" in an hour to fill the margins of your Noam Chomsky linguistics book.

I think the left's attempt at stuff like policing language probably alienates more workers than anything else.

Again, I'm not trying to justify the use of this kind of speech, but simply to inject a little bit of reality. I'm also not interested in left-wing recruitment, so feel free to carry on with your campaign.

The rule on this in the real world is the same as with ethnic slurs. If women want to use language like this, that's their biz, but men should not, unless you have a high level of mutual camaraderie and friendship, which we certainly don't have here. And men on Revleft, which is overwhelmingly male, especially should not.

In a bar or what have you, face to face, what's acceptable is what's acceptable in context. On the Internet, where everything gets misinterpreted anyway, smilies or no smilies, not a good idea, and not using language like that is a good rule.

-M.H.-

[Ele'ill]

...
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"pussy";)

Have an infraction

[PhoenixAsh]

Regarding women using sexist language- someone's willing participation within a harmful social system or social set doesn't legitimize that system or make it less harmful. It's not desirable under any circumstances.

Now can we please talk about the LA eviction and stuff.

IMO this is true.


****

But then we have a whole wave of feminism which is trying to reclaim words and in doing so try or attempt to dillude its sexist connotation or meaning and thsu rendering them gender neutral. I do not much like this, but I can understand the attempt.

But thats the thing. It is women saying that. And not men. And that makes the context of the word completely different.

So...lets take Chris Rock for example. When he says the racist word "nigger" it is still meant as an insult but its context gets different. Especially if you equate this with a white guy saying the exact same thing to the exact same people in the exact same setting. And this is because of the social implementation of the word.

So when a woman says ***** or pussy. I have no issues with this. But this gets different when a man uses the word. Maybe that is hypocritical but IMO the word gets defused from its sexist usage depending on who uses it...and becomes merely an insult.

And because of the complexities of social interaction....this is also why it is not a good idea to perpetuate the words. Lines get blurred. Men will go...."oh....but if women can say it...so can we... " The problem with this is...that some men may mean it as harmless insults and have no explicit sexist meaning by it....but some still do. And therefore diffusing a word by recapturing it doesn't work.

And I do not care is workers on the streets use it...if using such language is the only way you can connect with them then you are doing something wrong. Other parties using it does not excuse your usage of it.

[Ele'ill]

Have you ever been to a mine? A factory? A construction site? A bus garage? A warehouse? You'll hear enough "bad words" in an hour to fill the margins of your Noam Chomsky linguistics book.

I think the left's attempt at stuff like policing language probably alienates more workers than anything else.


IMO this is true.


****

But then we have a whole wave of feminism which is trying to reclaim words and in doing so try or attempt to dillude its sexist connotation or meaning and thsu rendering them gender neutral. I do not much like this, but I can understand the attempt.

But thats the thing. It is women saying that. And not men. And that makes the context of the word completely different.

So...lets take Chris Rock for example. When he says the racist word "nigger" it is still meant as an insult but its context gets different. Especially if you equate this with a white guy saying the exact same thing to the exact same people in the exact same setting. And this is because of the social implementation of the word.

So when a woman says ***** or pussy. I have no issues with this. But this gets different when a man uses the word. Maybe that is hypocritical but IMO the word gets defused from its sexist usage depending on who uses it...and becomes merely an insult.

And because of the complexities of social interaction....this is also why it is not a good idea to perpetuate the words. Lines get blurred. Men will go...."oh....but if women can say it...so can we... " The problem with this is...that some men may mean it as harmless insults and have no explicit sexist meaning by it....but some still do. And therefore diffusing a word by recapturing it doesn't work.

And I do not care is workers on the streets use it...if using such language is the only way you can connect with them then you are doing something wrong. Other parties using it does not excuse your usage of it.

This is a great example of ignoring requests to get the thread back on topic and continuing to derail it. Next time PM me with this or open a thread in the discrimination forum (or in the correct area of the forum- wherever that may be). Aside from the derailing nature of the comments here-

The issue I have with where this thread went was that (as I mentioned in another thread recently) this forum should be considered a safer space. A safer space no different than at a real life general assembly, spokes council meeting or affinity group meeting etc.. A lot of what would be considered 'appropriate' in pop culture 'music' or 'comedy' type environments or in 'bar' or 'work place' type environments isn't appropriate in an area where people who have been at the negative receiving end of sexism, racism etc.. assemble to share/discuss ideas on how to make 'the world a better place'.


Edit- I don't know if this thread was split before or after I posted this response. I didn't split it. I retract the first portion of my reply which is now in the spoiler tags if I posted after it had been split- as I had followed a link.

[The Douche]

NHIA, there is difference between "bad words" and "prejudiced language", I think you know that. Nobody on here is trying to ban the use of "bad words", but "prejudiced language" is against the rules, and for good reason.

[black magick hustla]

:shrugs: i get what NHIA is saying really. i mean, i generally avoid those words because in some of the circles and mingle with i assume some of those people will get offended. however, i've seen some pretty ridiculous things here. i mean some sensiivewhiteboytm here was burning ulcers about how his gf mentioned "she was being raped" in the context of loosing in an online video game. i mean thats fucking ridiculous. words do not have a magical agency, that is a very sociological take on it. the sense of words rely on their context, not on the history of its origin (vagina comes from sword sheath in latin, thats sexist amiright). i dont think women using the word "pussy" to call cowards are participating in their own opression, that is patronizing and ridiculous and that is something that would only come from estranged moonbat activists and grad students.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm glad this discussion was separated from the original topic and I'm half sorry for even bringing it up in the first place. I am fully sorry to Chicano Shamrock if he felt my post was moralizing or attacking him personally. I do not think saying "pussy" in that way makes someone a bad activist or radical - this is not a moral judgment on the person using the word. My main concern is that radicals when representing the left are not throwing terms around carelessly that will make it harder to convince people of the seriousness and value of radical class politics or open us up to ideological opponents who would use some language use to argue that the revolutionary left isn't really concerned with sexism (including feminists who do frequently argue that Marxism and anarchism are not interested in fighting oppression).

As for when people are not representing the left or friends and co-workers who don't consider them part of the left anyway - yeah, no real reason for us to be language police. If someone is overtly saying "pussy" in a sexist or homophobic way, then maybe there is good reason to call them out, but if a coworker is like: "The 49ers are pussies" then unless it's some kind of leftist event, it's probably not worth mentioning.

[The Douche]

:shrugs: i get what NHIA is saying really. i mean, i generally avoid those words because in some of the circles and mingle with i assume some of those people will get offended. however, i've seen some pretty ridiculous things here. i mean some sensiivewhiteboytm here was burning ulcers about how his gf mentioned "she was being raped" in the context of loosing in an online video game. i mean thats fucking ridiculous. words do not have a magical agency, that is a very sociological take on it. the sense of words rely on their context, not on the history of its origin (vagina comes from sword sheath in latin, thats sexist amiright). i dont think women using the word "pussy" to call cowards are participating in their own opression, that is patronizing and ridiculous and that is something that would only come from estranged moonbat activists and grad students.

So a girl who uses the term rape like that or calls people pussies is not somehow participating in the dominating culture of rape?

What about when a girl says "that girl shouldn't dress like that, she's asking to get raped"? Then is she participating in patriarchy?

Where is the line?


Or am I just a hipster grad student nerdario?

[black magick hustla]

So a girl who uses the term rape like that or calls people pussies is not somehow participating in the dominating culture of rape?


no





What about when a girl says "that girl shouldn't dress like that, she's asking to get raped"? Then is she participating in patriarchy?

that is different. when someone says i got raped in that videogame is more or less analogous to saying i got murdered in that videogame. i don't think the two are comparable.





Where is the line?



its fuzzy, as everything



Or am I just a hipster grad student nerdario?

nope, just a left nerdario like me

[The Douche]

its fuzzy, as everything

Well if its fuzzy, I am more than willing (and think its much more intelligent) to err on the side of caution, especially as the privileged person in this situation.

[black magick hustla]

Well if its fuzzy, I am more than willing (and think its much more intelligent) to err on the side of caution, especially as the privileged person in this situation.

you can avoid those words if you like but i don't think it helps raising your nose and patronizing a girl that calls another girl a ***** or a pussy.

[Veovis]

I never understood why "pussies" are considered weak. I'd like to see anyone try to push a baby out of any other orifice.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I never understood why "pussies" are considered weak. I'd like to see anyone try to push a baby out of any other orifice.

The idea is that women are weak. Ergo a pussy would be weak.

[Veovis]

The idea is that women are weak. Ergo a pussy would be weak.

Makes no sense, though. It's balls (testicles) that are weak and vulnerable to being hit. Pussies (vaginas) routinely push out babies the size of small watermelons often with no ill effects.

What a backwards world we live in.

[The Douche]

you can avoid those words if you like but i don't think it helps raising your nose and patronizing a girl that calls another girl a ***** or a pussy.

I think there is a big difference between snobbishly turning one's nose up and engaging the notion that language defends and strengthens reactionary ideas.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Makes no sense, though. It's balls (testicles) that are weak and vulnerable to being hit. Pussies (vaginas) routinely push out babies the size of small watermelons often with no ill effects.

What a backwards world we live in.

Lol, it has nothing to do with genitals, but with gender roles in most of capitalist society.

[black magick hustla]

engaging the notion that language defends and strengthens reactionary ideas.

but thats wrong though. the interplay between language and society does but words by themselves are nothing

[Decolonize The Left]

I think that this discussion, engaged in by many members I greatly respect, is missing the point entirely. We are not going to determine the 'proper' terms/uses of words here on this forum over the course of a week. We are also not going to determine what is best for a group of people or for a struggle. We really ought not be arguing these points - we should be discussing them.

But what's happening here is that we are conflating the above mentioned discussion points with the implementation of these terms on an internet forum. They are different issues. So, to sum it up in short:

1) We can discuss what words are sexist, prejudiced, etc.. and whether or not these words have negative outcomes on the working class, an oppressed group, etc...
2) We cannot use these words on this forum out of simple respect to the diversity of people that may use this forum and their feelings on the issue at hand.

Just my thoughts - hope they're clear.

- August

[ZeroNowhere]

I never understood why "pussies" are considered weak. I'd like to see anyone try to push a baby out of any other orifice.
Does 'pussy' meaning 'weak or cowardly person' even originate from 'pussy' meaning 'vagina'?

[black magick hustla]

yea i mean personally i think we should avoid those terms, because i don't think it is useful to make a fucking case about your right to use the word pussy as a synonimous for coward or not. however, i am talking about the last decade or so of "privilege theory" that has trickled from academia to the activist community where words take some sort of magical quality. i oppose that as a gross theoretical error.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Whenever this kind of discussion comes up on revleft, it always ends up being pretty embarrassing.

Although not quite as embarrassing as The Anarchist Tension claiming that the slang term "chick" was sexist towards women because it literally compared them to baby chickens, lol

[The Douche]

but thats wrong though. the interplay between language and society does but words by themselves are nothing

Which is why I don't think its wrong to refer to a vagina as pussy, but I do think its wrong to call somebody who is perceived to be a coward a pussy.

Like I said, its not about "bad words", I don't get upset when people say faggot because it offends my precious morality, I get upset because it reinforces the dominant homophobic culture of our society.


Personally I don't say the word pussy in any context, cause I think its a gross word and it feels awkward to say, it makes me think of middle-school aged boys on the playground. But I don't think there is anything wrong with the word inherently, though there are some words which do have inherently discriminatory (not just derogatory) meanings in certain cultures.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Does 'pussy' meaning 'weak or cowardly person' even originate from 'pussy' meaning 'vagina'?
I was wondering this myself. It would make much more sense to me that it would come from the real definition of pussy; cat. Cats are timid, shy and sometimes cowardly.

I have never called someone a pussy and even thought it was in any way relating to women. Now, I have thought about the phrase "wive's tale" and thought that was sexist. Does it mean women are liars? I think so but I don't know the origins.

I honestly can't believe anyone would even bring this stuff up aside from a parody of ultra-pc living.

I couldn't imagine a context in which you could use the word pussy to be offensive to a woman(on a gender basis).

I'm down for not using words that hurt people but I don't think this word does. I also thought it was out of line for people to jump all over me for what is an easy mistake(if it even was one) for someone to make who isn't trolling the discrimination boards all day trying to find out what is ok and what isn't. Send me a PM and let me know the situation. No biggie.



I know we aren't talking about comedy but I was just watching this video and thought it was funny and kind of about the same stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjIuPSuYSOY

[The Douche]

Calling a coward a pussy does indeed imply that they are "acting like a girl".

Chicano, the reason I said something in the thread as opposed to a PM was that it shows in public that 1) nobody else should use that language and 2) shows women that this is a safe(er) space.

I didn't intend for it to be a personal affront to you.

[Zealot]

According to wikipedia:

The meaning "weak or cowardly person" has a separate etymology. Websters 1913 Revised Unabridged Dictionary lists this version of pussy as an alternate spelling of "pursy", an otherwise obsolete English word meaning "fat and short-breathed; fat, short, and thick; swelled with pampering ..."

Personally I myself never related this term to women unless used specifically referring to the vagina but it might be better to keep this term banned from use if some people find it sexist.

[Ele'ill]

How word usage is addressed in everyday life is going to be different than how it's handled in a 'safer space' setting. I wouldn't be addressing a coworker's sexist language (unless it was malicious usage and within a very specific situation) in the same manner I may address it within an organizing 'safer space' setting. In either setting I would certainly not act like a hysterical 'moonbat activist'. If coworkers were trolling a certain mentality regarding organizing that I thought was flawed or harmful I would consider the situation and if I decided to engage in the conversation it would be done very deliberately and in a very specific manner. To think that we as leftists cannot attempt to discuss these issues outside of our own circles is asinine, dangerous and counterproductive.

[brigadista]

just leaving my sig quote here....:):)

[The Douche]

just leaving my sig quote here....:):)

Honestly, I think your quote could be interpreted to support either side of the argument.

[manic expression]

I never understood why "pussies" are considered weak. I'd like to see anyone try to push a baby out of any other orifice.
A vagina is soft, and softness is equated with weakness.

Anyway, I don't agree with the RL policy because it's far too strict and does border on silly sometimes...IMO calling someone a c*** or whatever isn't "replicating oppression" or anything like that. When I call someone "dumb" I'm not making fun of people who are unable to speak.

That being said, I still appreciate that those policies are in place to try to make RL a place where everyone can feel OK posting, which is a nice change and sets out RL from other political discussion boards. Just my $0.02.

[9]

Leaving aside the entire question of prejudiced language, I think it would have been a much better idea to have just sent the guy a private message and asked him (without being condescending} to edit the word out of his post rather than completely derailing the thread over it.

[The Douche]

Leaving aside the entire question of prejudiced language, I think it would have been a much better idea to have just sent the guy a private message and asked him (without being condescending} to edit the word out of his post rather than completely derailing the thread over it.

Ideally it could've been like this:

*unintentional use of prejudiced language*

*hey you can't say that, its prejudiced language, and its against the rules*

*oh shit, my bad, I didn't interpret it that way but I won't use that language here anymore*



But this is revleft, and nothing happens in the ideal manner. I already explained why I think its better to publicly state the issue instead of PMs, as well.

[9]

I already explained why I think its better to publicly state the issue instead of PMs, as well.

And I think its very clear that it isnt a better way to handle it, but suit yourself.

[Manic Impressive]

A vagina is soft, and softness is equated with weakness.
A vagina is both soft and strong for it is dialectic ;)

I remember people used to say "oh you big pussy cat" for a sign of weakness or cowardice. I wonder if there was some evolution involving that.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Language reflects reality. If every sexist term were phased out tomorrow it wouldn't mean sexism didn't exist. Same goes for homophobia, racism, etc.

You can simply take a look at the code words used in the "post-racial society," the bad science aimed at preserving reactionary conditions for women and people outside of "sexual norms," etc., for proof of that.

The language exists because the oppression exists. The oppression springs out of real conditions. The way forward is to eliminate those conditions; to turn society upside down.... You know, social revolution.

But basic materialism is thrown out the window when left wing activists and academics start unleashing their bedroom ponderations of their belly buttons on the material world, with the results being as tragicomic as could possibly be expected. Liberal guilt is a bad basis for social policy.

If I have to watch another awkward display of graduate students and washed up New Leftovers tripping over themselves to prove who is the most opposed to "white male privilege" or whatever, I may very well vomit into the pages of the closest copy of Marcuse's "One Dimensional Man."

[Ele'ill]

Language reflects reality. If every sexist term were phased out tomorrow it wouldn't mean sexism didn't exist. Same goes for homophobia, racism, etc.

You can simply take a look at the code words used in the "post-racial society," the bad science aimed at preserving reactionary conditions for women and people outside of "sexual norms," etc., for proof of that.

The language exists because the oppression exists. The oppression springs out of real conditions. The way forward is to eliminate those conditions; to turn society upside down.... You know, social revolution.

But basic materialism is thrown out the window when left wing activists and academics start unleashing their bedroom ponderations of their belly buttons on the material world, with the results being as tragicomic as could possibly be expected. Liberal guilt is a bad basis for social policy.

If I have to watch another awkward display of graduate students and washed up New Leftovers tripping over themselves to prove who is the most opposed to "white male privilege" or whatever, I may very well vomit into the pages of the closest copy of Marcuse's "One Dimensional Man."

So what does this have to do with what's been said in this thread? I'm confused here because while I see a lot of comments regarding language usage here on the forum, I don't see a lot of comments regarding real world language usage. Which scenario are we discussing?

[KR]

The rule on this in the real world is the same as with ethnic slurs. If women want to use language like this, that's their biz, but men should not, unless you have a high level of mutual camaraderie and friendship, which we certainly don't have here. And men on Revleft, which is overwhelmingly male, especially should not.

In a bar or what have you, face to face, what's acceptable is what's acceptable in context. On the Internet, where everything gets misinterpreted anyway, smilies or no smilies, not a good idea, and not using language like that is a good rule.

-M.H.-
WTF? It's wrong when men say pussy, but when women do it it's okay? What kind of double standard is that?