How to make socialism a real possibilty in the United States?

[cowslayer]

Hello there,

well the Occupy movement appears to be a little strong but it claims to be the 99/% and a it seems a majority of Americans do not support the movement.

So other than that, how can Socialism become a realization as a political movement is America? I think the solution to this is an actual demonstration of Socialism/collective land ownership in action.

Also, I was thinking a leftist intellectual should write a book on "Socialism 101" for the average american reader, you know in the average american political literature style. It would be preferred if this book were mass publicized somehow luckily and bought widely or at least makes more and more americans rethink leftist thought.

what are your guys thoughts? i hate to say it but mainstream americans politics laughs at socialism. what can we do to make socialism a valid political theory applied to modern usa?

[u.s.red]

what are your guys thoughts? i hate to say it but mainstream americans politics laughs at socialism. what can we do to make socialism a valid political theory applied to modern usa?

Two points I would make:

1. Marx argued that the following (among others) would be applicable to a socialist society....end to child labor, free education, equal rights for women, a centralized state bank, state ownership of transport and communication, a heavy progressive tax, union representation, etc.. In some ways a lot of the socialist program has succeeded; even Marx did not foresee a national pension plan or national health care. Obviously the U.S. is not a socialist society, but I don't think you can deny that progress has been made; although it is also clear that reactionaries have undermined a lot of the progress.

2. You say that mainstream politics laughs at socialism....I don't think this is accurate...most of the mainstream politicians running for president think that socialism is an unmitigated evil, that Obama is a communist, that the occupy movement is anti-American...these people are not laughing.

[Marxaveli]

I made a post about this a few weeks ago. The idea of a Socialist revolution in the USA, at this time, is a pipe dream. Things can of course, change. But right now the average American is heavily brain washed as the above post more or less states. Remember we live in a nation where almost a third of the citizens cannot even name the 3 branches of government, much less know the capitalist society they live in exploits them. Too much false consciousness, and not enough class consciousness. Of course, the last half century of anti-Communist indoctrination and Cold War propaganda hasn't helped matters.

Just to give you an idea of where the average citizen is regarding the principles of Socialism, my mom was having a discussion with my aunt, and they happen to be talking about me and my political views. My mom told her I was a Communist, and my aunt was like "OMG, we got a little Nazi on our hands now".....I almost couldn't stop laughing when she told me about the conversation, yet I was quite disturbed, as it suddenly dawned on me this is the ignorance we are up against. Love my aunt, but like the overwhelming majority of the American populace, she is in the dark about politics in general, let alone about more complex ideologies like Marxism.

[Comrade Samuel]

Also, I was thinking a leftist intellectual should write a book on "Socialism 101" for the average american reader


If you can combine celebrities, sex and socialism I will be genuinely surprised.

[Clarksist]

So other than that, how can Socialism become a realization as a political movement is America? I think the solution to this is an actual demonstration of Socialism/collective land ownership in action.


This is a way of doing, I suppose. There are massive challenges and it would be hard to do this inside of the United States while maintaining the average quality of life. US citizens aren't impressed if they think their quality of life will suffer.

I think that the left can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and as u.s.red said, progress has been made. We can expand that progress and keep educating and keep resisting. The improvements in this country that come from the radical left built the quality of life the average US citizen has today. What Unions, the Civil Rights movement, the Women's movement, the Prison movement, etc. has done is tremendous. The left had a leading role in all of that.

In a lot of ways we've had much success. We continue building on that success, and we make sure people know it was the leftist cause that got them those gains.

Oh... and donate most your excess wealth to unions.

[StalinFanboy]

revolution is not "bringing fire to the savages." it does not occur because some wingnuts who read a lot convince people it is a "good" thing. movements of people are always caused by a combination of material and social situations.

[StalinFanboy]

Oh... and donate most your excess wealth to unions.


unions are not revolutionary and in the past (and present) have worked actively against revolution. this is not because of poor or wrong leadership but because the union form can only ever work as a mediating apparatus between workers and bosses. better working conditions (aka "bigger cages, longer chains") do not equal communism. the abolition of work does.


i also think (and this will probably be a disliked position) that any sort of affirmation of the working class -"class power"- is not revolutionary in the sense of destroying capitaliat relations. stalinism to unionism to councilism have all failed to move beyond capitalism. the immediate negation of the working class, not its affirmation, is the only direction left.

[ckaihatsu]

Just to give you an idea of where the average citizen is regarding the principles of Socialism, my mom was having a discussion with my aunt, and they happen to be talking about me and my political views. My mom told her I was a Communist, and my aunt was like "OMG, we got a little Nazi on our hands now".....I almost couldn't stop laughing when she told me about the conversation, yet I was quite disturbed, as it suddenly dawned on me this is the ignorance we are up against. Love my aunt, but like the overwhelming majority of the American populace, she is in the dark about politics in general, let alone about more complex ideologies like Marxism.


Agreed that this is common -- people are instructed to think of the center of the political spectrum as "safe", while the "extremes" are "not-safe" and are pretty much the same anyway.

(Actually the political spectrum is more accurately described as a linear expanse that parallels historical development, going from right to left. The more left you are the more historically progressive / revolutionary you are.)

[Tim Finnegan]

You don't "make" socialism. Which rather precludes any further discussion on the topic.

[Sasha]

Inb4 "Obama 2012!!" :D

[Decolonize The Left]

Hello there,

well the Occupy movement appears to be a little strong but it claims to be the 99/% and a it seems a majority of Americans do not support the movement.

I think a lot of Americans do support the movement, but that a majority don't know what it's actually about.


So other than that, how can Socialism become a realization as a political movement is America? I think the solution to this is an actual demonstration of Socialism/collective land ownership in action.

I think socialism will come about in the US when the working class seizes the means of production, not when some collective engages in a utopian action.


Also, I was thinking a leftist intellectual should write a book on "Socialism 101" for the average american reader, you know in the average american political literature style. It would be preferred if this book were mass publicized somehow luckily and bought widely or at least makes more and more americans rethink leftist thought.

It's called the Communist Manifesto. Or The ABCs of Anarchism by Berkman.


what are your guys thoughts? i hate to say it but mainstream americans politics laughs at socialism. what can we do to make socialism a valid political theory applied to modern usa?

Nothing. Socialism will come about as a realistic material necessity of the working class, not from people reading a book or going to a meeting.

- August

[Rocky Rococo]

If you want to spread socialist ideas, or encourage openness to socialist ideas, among Americans, here's one suggestion: stop thinking about writing something, and start thinking about making videos.

[X5N]

The only way I can see it happening is with time. At the least optimistic, America will be cured of it's red-phobia when the children of those born after the fall of the Soviet Union are in their forties and/or fifties, and running for office and such.

Though still, I don't think that'd be enough to make people stop thinking "socialism" is a dirty word.

[ckaihatsu]

If you want to spread socialist ideas, or encourage openness to socialist ideas, among Americans, here's one suggestion: stop thinking about writing something, and start thinking about making videos.


For whatever it's worth, I've done some "mapping" of the political realm, and the products of that are at the first link if you do a web search for 'political educational diagrams'. For example:





(Actually the political spectrum is more accurately described as a linear expanse that parallels historical development, going from right to left. The more left you are the more historically progressive / revolutionary you are.)


[3] Ideologies & Operations -- Fundamentals

http://postimage.org/image/34modgv1g/

[B0LSHEVIK]

Hello there,

So other than that, how can Socialism become a realization as a political movement is America? I think the solution to this is an actual demonstration of Socialism/collective land ownership in action.

Also, I was thinking a leftist intellectual should write a book on "Socialism 101" for the average american reader, you know in the average american political literature style. It would be preferred if this book were mass publicized somehow luckily and bought widely or at least makes more and more americans rethink leftist thought.

what are your guys thoughts? i hate to say it but mainstream americans politics laughs at socialism. what can we do to make socialism a valid political theory applied to modern usa?

1) Socialism in the US of A has been under attack, constantly, for about one hundred years; since just around WWI. Propaganda, schools, media sources, public arenas, everything, has been closed off to left wing politics. It wont be easy convincing a population who is fervently indoctrinated against the left, again thanks to a century of cold war propaganda, into all of sudden becoming communists. Younger generations, I do feel, are different. And, no, some hippy collective is not the way to prove socialism. Eventually capitalists will break the people's backs, socialism is inevitable.

2) Dude, are you serious? Just use google. There are plenty of contemporary 'marxist' writers. Harryman, Harvey, Kalecki, etc. But, you have to read Marx first, some Baukinin too.

3) They laugh at us? I read the LA Times daily, its my morning ritual w/coffee, and I read what Obama said, what democraps say and what repiglicans say and its all so silly. I find it amusing to see how little they disagree on, yet get stuck on the stupidest of issues. American politics are corporate politics, those guys spend more time and care more about their campaign donors than some schmutz in small town USA. So, whos laughing?

[MustCrushCapitalism]

The epitome of Americans barely understanding politics - the mother of a friend of mine has said that the Republican Party should propose "nationalizing everything". Most Americans don't even understand where the two parties stand...

[ed miliband]

I made a post about this a few weeks ago. The idea of a Socialist revolution in the USA, at this time, is a pipe dream. Things can of course, change. But right now the average American is heavily brain washed as the above post more or less states. Remember we live in a nation where almost a third of the citizens cannot even name the 3 branches of government, much less know the capitalist society they live in exploits them. Too much false consciousness, and not enough class consciousness. Of course, the last half century of anti-Communist indoctrination and Cold War propaganda hasn't helped matters.


So what if a third of Americans cannot name the three branches of government (is this even true)? I don't think you need to be able to have any knowledge of the American political system to know that you hate your job, or that you can't afford to pay your rent, or that you're in debt, or that being unemployed and having no money sucks, or that being employed and having not enough money sucks, etc., etc., etc.

[ckaihatsu]

So what if a third of Americans cannot name the three branches of government (is this even true)?


This is some insidious liberalist shit -- basically the nation's in-house political marketing -- and is propagandistic whether or not it's factually accurate.

Here's the reasoning:

- Should people *know* some history, including some basics of U.S. history -- ? Of course -- no one could conceivably disagree with this premise on principle. Still on the offensive here, this approach then basically *guilt-trips* people using this valid, established premise / principle by holding the responsibility of 'historical literacy' over people's heads.

- This guilt is immediately used for the purpose of reinforcing bourgeois rule -- this implied concept of 'historical literacy' is then leveraged here to conflate knowledge of historically *bourgeois* institutions (the three branches of government) with the topic of *all* that's happened in this country. So, thanks to this ideological marketing, people are conditioned to associate 'three branches of government' with 'U.S. history' and 'historical literacy'.

- While the U.S. empire's unspoken military might continues to do all the talking on the world scene, the *people* of the U.S. are painted as being thick-in-the-head, ignorant, and careless since they "still" haven't grasped the most basic governmental formalities of this particular bourgeois system that they happened to be born into. This portrays American people as being inept and non-threatening -- hardly a characteristic of a world empire.





I don't think you need to be able to have any knowledge of the American political system to know that you hate your job, or that you can't afford to pay your rent, or that you're in debt, or that being unemployed and having no money sucks, or that being employed and having not enough money sucks, etc., etc., etc.