Where is SYRIZA and ANTARSYA?

[Aurora]

Discussion in this sub forum seems to consist solely of news of the anarchists and KKE without any mention of these groups presumably they are still active and involved in the ongoing strikes and demonstrations and the reason theres no news of them here is that theres only one Xekinima member here who doesn't post anymore.

So what's been happening with them? any news at all would be appreciated :)

Is SYRIZA still dominated by social-democrat Synaspismos? Do the revolutionary groups get their literature out into the masses? what's the reaction to it? how much support do these groups have on the street in unions etc? is this changing?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

SYRIZA is not being referred around here because it is an opportunist party and very closely related to PASOK. Theoritically, it is anticapitalist and supporting the solidarity EU.:laugh: What the heck?EU can't be solidare, it needs to be abolished!On the other hand, I have personally neutrual opinion on ANTARSYA but I think it is not being referred here as it considered a very small party. As far as KKE and SYNASPISMOS relations are concerned let me show you an exact description from Wikipedia

In 1988, KKE and Greek Left (Greek EAP; the former KKE Interior), along with other left and center parties and organisations, formed the Coalition of the Left and (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaspismos)Progress (Synaspismos). In the June 1989 elections Synaspismos gained 13.1 per cent of votes and joined a coalition with New Democracy to form a short-lived government amidst a political spectrum shaken by accusations of economic scandals against the previous administration of Andreas Papandreou's Panhellenic Socialist Movement. In November of the same year Synaspismos participated in the "Universal Government" with New Democracy and Panhellenic Socialist Movement which appointed Xenophon Zolotas as Prime Minister for 3 months. In 1991, KKE withdrew from Synaspismos. Some of its members left the party and remained in Synaspismos, which evolved into a separate left-wing party that is now an alliance of Synaspismos with other leftist groups called the (Coalition of the Radical Left)

[Искра]

Could you give us examples of their politics? I don't know much about them. Actually, I know much more about Greek anarchists sects (negative) and organisations (positive) then about this bigger revolutionary platforms.

[Smyg]

Never heard of them.

[Aurora]

SYRIZA is not being referred around here because it is an opportunist party and very closely related to PASOK.

Surely though its not right to paint all of SYRIZA with that brush, SYN are clearly opportunists but SYRIZA contains Trotskyists, Maoists and MLs too
Thanks btw i agree the EU is a capitalist organisation and can't be turned to the workers cause.


Never heard of them.
Seriously? i mean that's why i want to hear about them here ya know, no mention at all in here. Elections aren't a very good indicator as they tend to lag behind events but the KKE got 7.5% in 2009 and SYRIZA got 4.6% ANTARSYA much less but they are newer.

SYRIZA (The Coalition of the Radical Left) contains SYN who are opportunists and currently the largest group in SYRIZA taking a reformist position but there are also Xekinima Trots affiliated to the CWI, the KOE Maoists, the DEA who are friendly with the ISO in the USA and SA in Australia and a bunch of other small groups who im not familiar with a couple more Trot groups and some splinters from the KKE

ANTARSYA (Anticapitalist Left Front) i'm less familiar with but i think they take a more radical position than the SYN led SYRIZA, they contain the SEK who are affiliated to the SWP (IST) in Britain, a group in the USFI, Maoists and splinters from the KKE

[Kornilios Sunshine]

No no SYRIZA has no Trotskyists or Maoists at all. Pseudoleftists yes. As for their demonstrations they never do so. A party that has left communists is the KKE(M-L) namely a left communist party organised by ex-members of the KKE

[A Marxist Historian]

Surely though its not right to paint all of SYRIZA with that brush, SYN are clearly opportunists but SYRIZA contains Trotskyists, Maoists and MLs too
Thanks btw i agree the EU is a capitalist organisation and can't be turned to the workers cause...



I wish it were true that calling oneself a Trotskyist or a Maoist or an ML meant that one couldn't be an opportunist.

Sadly, that is not the case.

All allegedly "revolutionary" organizations affiliated with SYRIZA are opportunists of the worst sort, part of the problem not part of the solution. Possible future hangers-on of whatever coalition government gets set up to oppress the Greek people and the Greek working class when the political dust settles out.

And that applies to whatever "internationals" they are affiliated with too, unless they kick their Greek affiliates out.

-M.H.-

[Binh]

In my opinion Greece proves that "Leninist" organizations cannot become mass parties no matter how favorable objective circumstances are (SYRIZA is not "Leninist" but has quite a few small "Leninist" grouplets inside it).

[Искра]

In my opinion Greece proves that "Leninist" organizations cannot become mass parties no matter how favorable objective circumstances are (SYRIZA is not "Leninist" but has quite a few small "Leninist" grouplets inside it).
Well only opportunist and reformist organisations can become mass. Lenin said fewer but better... I agree with this one :)

[A Marxist Historian]

In my opinion Greece proves that "Leninist" organizations cannot become mass parties no matter how favorable objective circumstances are (SYRIZA is not "Leninist" but has quite a few small "Leninist" grouplets inside it).

If anything, proves the opposite.

The entire Greek alphabet soup is engaged in anti-Leninist reformist coalitionism. SYRIZA being only the most horrible example. Don't know for sure, but I suspect ANTARSYA is only somewhat better. Any political coalition always has to have the least common denominator politics of the most right wing component of the coalition, or it explodes instantly as soon as you get any serious class struggle going on.

If you had a genuinely Leninist group of a couple hundred people or so with a genuinely revolutionary political line and a base in the working class, it would grow like wildfire.

-M.H.-

[RedTrackWorker]

If anything, proves the opposite.

The entire Greek alphabet soup is engaged in anti-Leninist reformist coalitionism. SYRIZA being only the most horrible example. Don't know for sure, but I suspect ANTARSYA is only somewhat better. Any political coalition always has to have the least common denominator politics of the most right wing component of the coalition, or it explodes instantly as soon as you get any serious class struggle going on.

If you had a genuinely Leninist group of a couple hundred people or so with a genuinely revolutionary political line and a base in the working class, it would grow like wildfire.

-M.H.-

Right, the Bolsheviks didn't grow in 1917 because they were leninists organizationally speaking, but because they were leninists programmatically speaking and Leninist organizational methods had prepared for that and allowed for them to do that, but that's not the key. Program, program, program and coalitionism like that in greece is definitely not a way to clarity over program.

[Iraultzaile Ezkerreko]

I wish it were true that calling oneself a Trotskyist or a Maoist or an ML meant that one couldn't be an opportunist.

Sadly, that is not the case.

All allegedly "revolutionary" organizations affiliated with SYRIZA are opportunists of the worst sort, part of the problem not part of the solution. Possible future hangers-on of whatever coalition government gets set up to oppress the Greek people and the Greek working class when the political dust settles out.

And that applies to whatever "internationals" they are affiliated with too, unless they kick their Greek affiliates out.

-M.H.-


No no SYRIZA has no Trotskyists or Maoists at all. Pseudoleftists yes. As for their demonstrations they never do so. A party that has left communists is the KKE(M-L) namely a left communist party organised by ex-members of the KKE

Both of these posts are complete bullshit. SYRIZA is a coalition with split-personality syndrome. Synapsismos, due to it being the largest grouping in the coalition, has a huge amount of say in what the official coalition does and says, but there have been conflicts within the coalition for years now, even coming to a point at which DEA and other members of the left of SYRIZA formed an internal group called the Solidarity and Overthrow Front or MAA which criticized SYN's so called "programmatic opposition" which was essentially just giving left cover to PASOK. The MAA also called for "Struggle to over throw the government from below, not constructive criticism. Clear rejection of the 'Stability Pact' as an 'Austerity Pact'. Clear rejection of the EU Stability Memorandum with no reluctance. The addoption of the slogan 'Workers' December' to support these points and the attitude of SYRIZA to the protests of December 2008 as the correct positions." This even lead to the MAA standing separate candidates in some prefectures and municipalities where SYN attempted to force wet-blanket candidates on them.

WHat you are doing is painting every party in the coalition with what Syriza deos, but if you actually read and pay attention to the actions and statement of the other groups, especially the MAA, then you would understand that this is intelectually dishonest and complete bullshit. There is a clear and documented history of opposition to the right-wing of SYN within SYRIZA and ignoring this serves no purpose other than to attempt to paint the "competition" (Or as all Trot groups not affiliated to the CWI, IMT, and IST see it "our main source of recruitment because we are completely incapable of relating to the larger struggle and movement or recruiting people from there") as "social democrats" instead of engaging critically and intelectually with the real political situation and the arguments being made therein.

[A Marxist Historian]

Both of these posts are complete bullshit. SYRIZA is a coalition with split-personality syndrome. Synapsismos, due to it being the largest grouping in the coalition, has a huge amount of say in what the official coalition does and says, but there have been conflicts within the coalition for years now, even coming to a point at which DEA and other members of the left of SYRIZA formed an internal group called the Solidarity and Overthrow Front or MAA which criticized SYN's so called "programmatic opposition" which was essentially just giving left cover to PASOK. The MAA also called for "Struggle to over throw the government from below, not constructive criticism. Clear rejection of the 'Stability Pact' as an 'Austerity Pact'. Clear rejection of the EU Stability Memorandum with no reluctance. The addoption of the slogan 'Workers' December' to support these points and the attitude of SYRIZA to the protests of December 2008 as the correct positions." This even lead to the MAA standing separate candidates in some prefectures and municipalities where SYN attempted to force wet-blanket candidates on them.

WHat you are doing is painting every party in the coalition with what Syriza deos, but if you actually read and pay attention to the actions and statement of the other groups, especially the MAA, then you would understand that this is intelectually dishonest and complete bullshit. There is a clear and documented history of opposition to the right-wing of SYN within SYRIZA and ignoring this serves no purpose other than to attempt to paint the "competition" (Or as all Trot groups not affiliated to the CWI, IMT, and IST see it "our main source of recruitment because we are completely incapable of relating to the larger struggle and movement or recruiting people from there") as "social democrats" instead of engaging critically and intelectually with the real political situation and the arguments being made therein.

Like you said, Synapsismos is just a left cover for PASOK and Papandreou. And they are the dominant group in SYRIZA. So what does that make all those left groups in SYRIZA with all their criticisms, who even occasionally stand their own candidates?

Left covers for Synapsismos, that's what.

If they want to stop being that, if they want to stop being part of the problem in Greece and become part of the solution, they need to stop whining about how right wing Synapsismos is and leave. But then they'd lose the government financing on election day and cheap publicity they get in the mainstream press for being part of a coalition with members in parliament and a shot at serving as ministers in the next Greek government.

-M.H.-

[Binh]

Well only opportunist and reformist organisations can become mass. Lenin said fewer but better... I agree with this one :)

So how'd the Bolsheviks become a mass party then?

Also, the comments above are funny. The Bolsheviks and Lenin were not Leninists. :laugh:

[A Marxist Historian]

So how'd the Bolsheviks become a mass party then?

Also, the comments above are funny. The Bolsheviks and Lenin were not Leninists. :laugh:

True enough. Lenin alive would have been horrified at any Bolshevik calling himself a "Leninist." And Trotsky felt similarly about the designation "Trotskyist," and Marx himself famously said on one occasion "I am not a Marxist."

Stalin? Well, he had a different attitude...

How did the Bolsheviks become a mass party? That was 1905. Before 1905 they weren't, they were an isolated propaganda group at a point when most Russian workers still loved their Tsar. Which ended on Bloody Sunday. After which all the socialist groups were recruiting rapidly. Revolutions do that.

The single event that turned the Bolsheviks into a mass party, and indeed the majority party of the working class, was the Moscow Insurrection of December 1905, a serious attempt to overthrow the Tsar. It failed, but it came close enough to success that from then on, most Russian workers saw the Bolsheviks as the real thing and the best party.

-M.H.-