Government vs Internet

[phyrrus9]

Well, if you think about it, a government is really just a means of controlling its people. Which is perfectly fine. Don't you think tho that if the government idea applies to groups of people in social reality, that it would also apply in the cyber grid? Our government is not capitalism, nor socialism, nor dictatorship; but in fact is a little more than an anarchy .. what rules us to not go around h4xing everything? we do. But not in the sense that "America" tries to say "the people rule", but in kind of the same sense as communism. There are few people on the internet who actually have power, and do we really care that we have NONE of it? NO. Comming from America, I know how we are taught, to ignore everything and believe that Communism is a horrible terrible thing that we should associate anybody who is such as evil. When really, it tends to manage countries and in some way, the internet, a lot better than Democracy(dictatorship) does.. Who agrees?

[Red Noob]

Well, if you think about it, a government is really just a means of controlling its people. Which is perfectly fine.

It's a means of control by the Bourgeoisie, which is not fine.


Don't you think tho that if the government idea applies to groups of people in social reality, that it would also apply in the cyber grid?

It already does. They can take down a site, track you, monitor, and censor how they please. And they'll be able to do it just a bit more with this new internet censorship bill.


Our government is not capitalism, nor socialism, nor dictatorship; but in fact is a little more than an anarchy .. what rules us to not go around h4xing everything? we do.

You can face penalty of law for some cyber malicious activities, if you manage to get caught, which is easy.


But not in the sense that "America" tries to say "the people rule", but in kind of the same sense as communism. There are few people on the internet who actually have power, and do we really care that we have NONE of it? NO. Comming from America, I know how we are taught, to ignore everything and believe that Communism is a horrible terrible thing that we should associate anybody who is such as evil. When really, it tends to manage countries and in some way, the internet, a lot better than Democracy(dictatorship) does.. Who agrees?

So self-rule is basically hacking? I'm confused. Extremely confused.

edit:
Are you saying that we should all have a little power over the internet? :confused:

[CommieTroll]

Well, if you think about it, a government is really just a means of controlling its people. Which is perfectly fine. Don't you think tho that if the government idea applies to groups of people in social reality, that it would also apply in the cyber grid? Our government is not capitalism, nor socialism, nor dictatorship; but in fact is a little more than an anarchy .. what rules us to not go around h4xing everything? we do. But not in the sense that "America" tries to say "the people rule", but in kind of the same sense as communism. There are few people on the internet who actually have power, and do we really care that we have NONE of it? NO. Comming from America, I know how we are taught, to ignore everything and believe that Communism is a horrible terrible thing that we should associate anybody who is such as evil. When really, it tends to manage countries and in some way, the internet, a lot better than Democracy(dictatorship) does.. Who agrees?

There is nothing fine about being controlled by your government. The US government is Capitalist (what would make you think otherwise?) but some of it's actions lead me to believe it's borderline Fascist. How can a government be Anarchist? That's an oxymoron and yes your government is a dictatorship, a dictatorship of the Bourgeois. The US government gives it's people an illusion of freedom and nothing more and no not in ''the same sense as communism.'' Communists want the workers to seize control of the state and the means of production to overthrow the bourgeois, not as simple as ''the people rule''. The true evil in this world is the Capitalist system (no matter what your high school indoctrination tells you :tongue_smilie: and Communism is truly Democratic, the ''Democracies'' we see today are purposely mislabeled Plutarchies, nothing Democratic about them at all.
I don't really understand what you are trying to ask in your OP since you answered the first to wonderfully rhetorical questions yourself. No, I do not agree with you, to use an example you can understand and a little bit because I need a chuckle, North Korea's monarchy couldn't manage cyberspace or let alone a country better than a ''Democracy'':laugh:
And no, I'm not always this cynical

[hatzel]

There is nothing fine about being controlled by your government. The US government is Capitalist (what would make you think otherwise?) but some of it's actions lead me to believe it's borderline Fascist. How can a government be Anarchist? That's an oxymoron and yes your government is a dictatorship, a dictatorship of the Bourgeois. The US government gives it's people an illusion of freedom and nothing more and no not in ''the same sense as communism.'' Communists want the workers to seize control of the state and the means of production to overthrow the bourgeois, not as simple as ''the people rule''. The true evil in this world is the Capitalist system (no matter what your high school indoctrination tells you :tongue_smilie: and Communism is truly Democratic, the ''Democracies'' we see today are purposely mislabeled Plutarchies, nothing Democratic about them at all.
I don't really understand what you are trying to ask in your OP since you answered the first to wonderfully rhetorical questions yourself. No, I do not agree with you, to use an example you can understand and a little bit because I need a chuckle, North Korea's monarchy couldn't manage cyberspace or let alone a country better than a ''Democracy'':laugh:
And no, I'm not always this cynical

I have underlined the most important part of this post, and put the bits which prove it to be the most important (though a lot of the rest isn't exactly on-topic either, I'm afraid, due to this misunderstanding). Pretty much, the OP never said the US wasn't capitalist, they said the internet wasn't capitalist, that the internet was anarchic, not a dictatorship, that the internet was similar to communism in some ways, that America made these empty promises of 'the people rule' which are totally inadequate, and that of course governments cannot control the internet - they being inefficient forms of social organisation, - for otherwise it wouldn't be this anarchic space. (A few of these statements would have to be considered more closely, because they may not all be true.)

The issue with this whole idea is that it's drawing pretty tenuous links between things. I mean, I could call up a couple of friends and arrange for us to meet up in the pub at 7pm on Wednesday - the day and time best suited to everybody. Here, we see cooperation, we see people arranging themselves; they don't need some leader to tell them when to meet up, to organise all this for them. The OP has made the standard leap from 'well if me and my buddies can do that then it's pretty much communism already,' kind of ignoring the fact that managing production, resources, all that stuff, in a society of millions, is a considerably more complex task than calling half a dozen friends for a couple of jars. There may be anarchic spaces on the internet (perhaps we should coin the term 'cyber-TAZ' to describe them :p), but to say 'well the internet therefore communism lives!' is a bit of a stretch. And I'm sure the majority of people wouldn't be swayed by the argument that the internet works pretty well therefore communism is teh shitz or anything like that. It's certainly a splendid resource, let's not knock it, but it's hardly fair to call it the kernel of communism in an otherwise capitalistic world...

[CommieTroll]

I have underlined the most important part of this post, and put the bits which prove it to be the most important (though a lot of the rest isn't exactly on-topic either, I'm afraid, due to this misunderstanding). Pretty much, the OP never said the US wasn't capitalist, they said the internet wasn't capitalist, that the internet was anarchic, not a dictatorship, that the internet was similar to communism in some ways, that America made these empty promises of 'the people rule' which are totally inadequate, and that of course governments cannot control the internet - they being inefficient forms of social organisation, - for otherwise it wouldn't be this anarchic space. (A few of these statements would have to be considered more closely, because they may not all be true.)

The issue with this whole idea is that it's drawing pretty tenuous links between things. I mean, I could call up a couple of friends and arrange for us to meet up in the pub at 7pm on Wednesday - the day and time best suited to everybody. Here, we see cooperation, we see people arranging themselves; they don't need some leader to tell them when to meet up, to organise all this for them. The OP has made the standard leap from 'well if me and my buddies can do that then it's pretty much communism already,' kind of ignoring the fact that managing production, resources, all that stuff, in a society of millions, is a considerably more complex task than calling half a dozen friends for a couple of jars. There may be anarchic spaces on the internet (perhaps we should coin the term 'cyber-TAZ' to describe them :p), but to say 'well the internet therefore communism lives!' is a bit of a stretch. And I'm sure the majority of people wouldn't be swayed by the argument that the internet works pretty well therefore communism is teh shitz or anything like that. It's certainly a splendid resource, let's not knock it, but it's hardly fair to call it the kernel of communism in an otherwise capitalistic world...

Now I see:laugh: I genuinely thought he was talking about the US government :L My bad, but how can the internet be anarchistic? Anarcho-Capitalist maybe? Because of the billions in revenue advertising generates maybe? But all governments closely monitor internet activity in their countries so I'm not really convinced that it's anarchist but the other side of the spectrum where many media files (movies, music, books, games etc.) can be downloaded instantly and all that jazz.