The dangerous class: 'Illegal immigrants' and transgendered(?) people

[NewLeft]

Who do you think are the modern day dangerous class? Do you think that transgendered people fit into the dangerous class since they're far more likely to be assaulted by the police, experience workplace discrimination and physical assault..? They seem to be the easiest to radicalize? Would you consider 'illegal' immigrants part of the dangerous class aswell?

[the last donut of the night]

the dangerous class is the working class

[Comrade Samuel]

It's wrong that there so discriminated against but when you think about illegal immigrants are probably the most screwed by capitalism, I imagine if educated they have the potential to be strong leftists.

And as for transgenders I have nothing against them and I do feel its an injustice they are discriminated against aswell I really have no input.

[NewLeft]

the dangerous class is the working class

Yes, but I think that illegal immigrants and transgendered people can become part of the dangerous class even though I've seen some mistakingly group them with the lumpenproletariat.

[Per Levy]

how can transgender people be a class? their part of class depending of what their doing. so there are working class transgender people and bourgeois trangender people.

and "illegal" workers are workers.

[NewLeft]

how can transgender people be a class? their part of class depending of what their doing. so there are working class transgender people and bourgeois trangender people.

and "illegal" workers are workers.

Can you really list a bourgeois transgendered person? I can't.

[Comrade Samuel]

Can you really list a bourgeois transgendered person? I can't.

I don't think you can. Who are you exploiting as a transgender?

[mrmikhail]

Can you really list a bourgeois transgendered person? I can't.

Stephanie Booth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Booth) believe that is one for you, no? She is rich and all.


But Transgendered people are not a class....nor are they lumpen. They are of which ever social class they are apart of.

[Tim Finnegan]

Can you really list a bourgeois transgendered person? I can't.
Isn't that a comment on the lack of public acceptance of transgender people than on anything to do with class? A publicly prominent transgender person is likely to remain closeted, while many would avoid prominence in the first place; there's a huge selection bias here.

Also, the older Wachowski sibling is transgender. She transitioned a few years ago, and now goes by "Lana". (And, confirming my earlier point, neither of them have publicly confirmed this, they've just let it sort of come out over time.)

[NewLeft]

Stephanie Booth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Booth) believe that is one for you, no?

Yes, there are a few. I stand corrected, it's probably not Stephanie Booth who is suffering from police assault.

[mrmikhail]

I don't think you can. Who are you exploiting as a transgender?

Your gender doesn't determine who/if you can exploit the working class, comrade.

[tir1944]

WTF is a dangerous class?
Dangerous to whom(from whos point of view)?

[NewLeft]

WTF is a dangerous class?
Dangerous to whom(from whos point of view)?

'the last donut of the night' pretty much summed it up. It's the old bourgeois word for the working class.

[Comrade Samuel]

Your gender doesn't determine who/if you can exploit the working class, comrade.

My point exactly the two classifications aren't related in any way

[Aurora]

I'm not sure if this is a troll thread or what, anyway i find it kinda insulting, the dangerous class is how Marx described the Lumpenproletariat, to imply that Transgendered people and illegal immigrants are Lumpenproletarian is disgusting i can only hope you meant it in some other way, i'm not sure what other way you could be using it though.

"The “dangerous class”, [lumpenproletariat] the social scum, that passively rotting mass thrown off by the lowest layers of the old society, may, here and there, be swept into the movement by a proletarian revolution; its conditions of life, however, prepare it far more for the part of a bribed tool of reactionary intrigue." Marx and Engels, The Communist Manifesto

[Kornilios Sunshine]

WTF? NO ONE IS ILLEGAL! This is unfortunatelly a propaganda affecting the youth nowadays. There are no illegal people , the only illegal people are the ones not respecting the rest human's rights.
As far as the dangerous class is concerned, I cannot really understand what do you mean but I guess the workers class is dangerous to the capitalists class. Also working class is much more powerful than the shitty cappies.

[mrmikhail]

I'm not sure if this is a troll thread or what, anyway i find it kinda insulting, the dangerous class is how Marx described the Lumpenproletariat, to imply that Transgendered people and illegal immigrants are Lumpenproletarian is disgusting i can only hope you meant it in some other way, i'm not sure what other way you could be using it though.

"The “dangerous class”, [lumpenproletariat] the social scum, that passively rotting mass thrown off by the lowest layers of the old society, may, here and there, be swept into the movement by a proletarian revolution; its conditions of life, however, prepare it far more for the part of a bribed tool of reactionary intrigue." Marx and Engels, The Communist Manifesto

I believe the OP was referring to the most dangerous class to capitalism as they could be the most easily turned into revolutionaries....or at least that is what I'd hope it meant, otherwise it would be awful....

[Smyg]

Someone explain to me what the fuck is going on in this thread.

[NewLeft]

WTF? NO ONE IS ILLEGAL! This is unfortunatelly a propaganda affecting the youth nowadays. There are no illegal people , the only illegal people are the ones not respecting the rest human's rights.

Notice the quotes around 'illegal'..

@Anarion Referring to the dangerous class in pre-Marxian context.

[Luís Henrique]

WTF? NO ONE IS ILLEGAL!

This.


the only illegal people are the ones not respecting the rest human's rights.

Those would be people doing illegal things, not illegal people.

Luís Henrique

[Tim Finnegan]

The problem with "no one is illegal" is that it assumes we're supposed to give a shit about what is and is not legal to begin with.

[Ocean Seal]

Did you guys actually read the post. it isn't against undocumented immigrants or transgendered people. Instead its about those who are most discriminated against in the working class.

[Luís Henrique]

The problem with "no one is illegal" is that it assumes we're supposed to give a shit about what is and is not legal to begin with.

But we do, don't we? Or why else would we strive for legal abortions, legal same-sex unions, etc?

Luís Henrique

[black magick hustla]

actually, illegal immigrants are some of the most vulnerable groups and the most utterly defeated. they have to face a two pronged attack from the state and miserable "labor" chauvinistic organizations that snitch on them and displace them. we have some representatives of the latter here.

[Tim Finnegan]

But we do, don't we? Or why else would we strive for legal abortions, legal same-sex unions, etc?

Luís Henrique
Fair point, fair point. I was commenting on the language politics surrounding the word "illegal", rather than the political content of "no one is illegal"-ism, which I probably should have made clearer.

[El Louton]

When you say dangerous, do you mean in danger? or are going to rip your head off or stab you? The Afro-Caribbean's really have it worse in the UK. Constantly abused racially and suffer a lot of police brutality. Constantly being stopped or questioned by the police.

[Rusty Shackleford]

immigrants arent illegal and gender, like immigration, has nothing to do with class.

[El Louton]

Did you guys actually read the post. it isn't against undocumented immigrants or transgendered people. Instead its about those who are most discriminated against in the working class.

Course I didn't read it! I'm a teenager.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I don't think you can. Who are you exploiting as a transgender?
Transwomen of color are very often exploited. The highest percentage of any group to end up prostituting. I say this as a chicana transwoman who used to turn tricks.