Anne Frank

[Anonymous]

a few nights ago i was looking for something to read but something soft because noam chomsky and marx is a little heavy if you catch my drift. Anyway i reasile that i have no good romances among my books and so go in my sisters room to check see if there is anything remotly interesting, that is unless you find harry poter interesting in which case you would have loads of options :). I find one that might be what im looking for :"diary of Anne Frank".


the frist part of the book is just a little kid talking about childish things in the from of letters to an imagenary friend, but from the begining you catch on that this is just any girl, she is very smart for here age, alive and funny. Some where in the later part of the book you begin to see a change, the dark drismal reality hits you. The impressive thing is that through all this she might lose her inocence but she doesnt lose her charm, her spirit. And they know what is happening out side, they know "jews like cocroaches are being sent to the slaugter house. just because they are jews". From her testment alone you grasp the madness of racial discrimination theories, why? because she is just like you. they are people not cocroaches and the best way to realise that is by getting to know them, and when you "meet" someone like Anne even through a book you know that you would like to have her as a friend and the rest is bullshit.

That poor girl those poor people they die in the end you know all 8 of them, only the father survives. Motherfucking nazis shit why didnt they fight? why didnt jews fight back for crist sake? organise resististance, kill cops take there guns and shoot the motherfuckers. anything something!! please!


"do not go gently into the night" so the poet said.

(Edited by El_Che at 7:24 pm on Nov. 4, 2001)

[Nickademus]

i really appreciate the story of anne frank but (and this may come out the wrong way) she had it pretty easy. she had the opportunity to worry about things that people in the holocaust and other hidden children as they are called didn't even have a chance to read about.

if you really want to know about the holocuast read stories of those who survived the camps.

i recommend the following
elie wiesel
primo levi (he has quite a few)
charlotte delbo

i'm sorry i can't remember the names of the books but they are all excellent although very hard to read at times because of the detail

oh yeah, and read the comic MAUS as well

[Jurhael]

"Night" by Ellie Wiesel was one of the best books I've ever read...

[Reuben]

Good Topic. I have not read Anne Franks diary myself though I should. With regard to El Che's post asking why the Jews did not fight back, there was in fact a great level of armed resistance from the Jews particularly in occuppied poland consisting of partisans who responsible for the Death of over 3 thousand Nazi soldiers. Of the most amazing acts of resistance was the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. This involved the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto sneaking out to by a small amount of weapons and making their own bombs. When the Nazis first invaded, with the objective of rounding up all the Jews and taking them to death camps, there well equipped army was forced to retreat after a tank was burnt out by a mollotov cocktail and they were fired on by Jewish fighters. When they again invaded the Ghetto, they were forced to fight for seven weeks against resistance before their final victory. This was Longer than both france and poland had taken to surrender.

ust thought I'd share with you this tale of Heroism in the face of racism. The Jewish resistance which occurred in the holocaust is often ignored.

Good topic. Should make good discussion.

[Chief Rebel Angel]

i also think there will be a movie about the Jewish resistance in the face of the Nazies coming soon, thats if it hadnt been released already... i dont recall the name however..

[sabre]

I had to read Anne Frank for school and found it extremely dull and boring.

I read night about a year later and it was tons better than Anne Frank.

Maybe it was the fact that I had to read it for school that ruined it - with all of the crap discussions and whatnot we had to do.

[Nickademus]

Quote: from Chief Rebel Angel on 3:03 pm on Nov. 5, 2001
i also think there will be a movie about the Jewish resistance in the face of the Nazies coming soon, thats if it hadnt been released already... i dont recall the name however..


i think what you are referig to is the made for tv movie called uprising. the first half was on last nite and it was excellent. the second half is tonite.

its about the jewish resistance in the warsaw ghetto.

[Chief Rebel Angel]

yup thats it! too bad it's made for tv tho.. that would mean i'll never see it... :(

[gooddoctor]

i've seen that show. tres cool. they did just about all they could do in the face of it. incredibly brave people. i've been to anne frank's house twice in amsterdam (i love amsterdam!) and it's probably one of the most moving and inspiring experiences of my life. for some reason though i never got around to reading the diaries. think i just might now though.

[RedCeltic]

Oh... I had to read this book for school many years ago... but actually it was quite moving for me... I remember I was uh... 14 I think and visiting my gran. I remember sitting out on the poarch and balling over the whole thing... you really can't help but be touched by it all.

And, well, what Nickadermus said is true... it was easier for her as she was in hidding... not like all those other children being raised in consentration camps.

I saw this movie on HBO about a month ago.. .I forget the name... but it's about the Natzis trying to figure out what to do with the jews. And while some wanted to burn them all, and others seralise them... use them for labor, etc.... they all talked about them as if they where not even humans... It is a very frightening thing when people are totaly void of human compassion.

[gooddoctor]

that's why capitalists frighten me so. they also make me angry and want to fight.

[reagan lives]

ummmmmm....what?

[gooddoctor]

um...what? what? shut up and read my post on the ugandan farmer you misguided ignoramous.

(Edited by gooddoctor at 4:14 pm on Nov. 6, 2001)

[Valkyrie]

The life of Anne Frank is particulary heart-breaking. Her diary is common, even at times every day boringness. But that is probably what is so affecting about it. And one day she's there, the next gone.

The warsaw uprising is very inspirational. So too, was the mass escape from the Nazi camp, Sobibor. If you can- Check out the movie on video "Escape from Sobibor" Very historically accurate and uplifting.

[Anonymous]

motherfucking nazis id rather go down fighting than put my life in there hands ill tell you that right now. But i supose its not the same if you have a wife and kids to take care of.



quote from nickadamus posted on 6:53 pm on Nov. 5, 2001
i really appreciate the story of anne frank but (and this may come out the wrong way) she had it pretty easy. she had the opportunity to worry about things that people in the holocaust and other hidden children as they are called didn't even have a chance to read about.


yea and she knew it too, she says she feels guilt because while she is hiding others dont have the same luck... it still impresses me though.

[reagan lives]

Oh, I should have realized that your post about a Ugandan farmer's view on globalization would amplify your attempted connection between the plight of Anne Frank and the pitfalls of capitalism. I guess I AM stupid.

I read it, it still doesn't. Let me be more clear:

What the FUCK does the discussion in this thread have to do with CAPITALISM??

[RedCeltic]

Hmmm let me see here.... I said, " It is a very frightening thing when people are totaly void of human compassion."

and then Gooddoctor said directly after it, " that's why capitalists frighten me so. they also make me angry and want to fight. "

Now... I don't pretend to be some kind of a mind reader or anything... but... well... anyone with a brain can see he is saying that capitalists frighten him because they are void of human compassion. I think it's plain and obvious thats what he is saying.

[reagan lives]

OK, I see now...the page jump really screwed me up, and I missed that. OK.

But it still doesn't make any sense to me. Your point was that the Nazis saw the Jews not as humans, but rather as abstract units that would either do X amount of labor before perishing, or take Z amount of resources to imprison and kill, etc. This viewpoint, to me, seems far more consonant with socialism than capitalism. Socialism sees people as little more than lemmings (lower-middle class lemmings, but lemmings nonetheless) who can produce Y amount for the society while consuming X resources or whatever. Capitalism views humans as humans who have personal goals, desires, and downfalls. Capitalism is the system of a group of individuals, not of a conglomeration of faceless labor-units (that's socialism). So, while your opinion on the (HBO-projected) viewpoints of the National SOCIALIST Party of Germany were quite well-placed, the Good Doctor's equation between them and "capitalists" is still beyond me.

[AgustoSandino]

It is hardly "plain and obvious" unless ofcourse you have a twisted moral valuation. I think I must reiterate the sentiment:

What the FUCK does the discussion in this thread have to do with CAPITALISM??

[Moskitto]

National SOCIALIST Party of Germany

by pointing out an ideology in a name you must remember

DEMOCRATIC Republic of Germany
HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE
DEMOCRATIC Republic of the Congo
PEOPLES Republic of China
PEOPLES DEMOCRATIC Republic of Korea

Which were nothing like they claimed.

But anyway, Why does someone starting a topic about Anne Frank (who's struggle should be appreciated by both socialists and capitalists) end up in us fighting over capitalism and socialism?

If we want to discuss capitalism and socialism please don't use this thread.

[RedCeltic]

Your right Reagan in that it wasn't the point I was trying to make... I was simply refering to the Natzis...

And in saying it should be plain and obvious... was only that it seemed fairly obvious what he was talking about, and I didn't mean that to come out meaning anyone was dumb or anything....

[reagan lives]

I agree, Moskitto...I'm not the one that brought it up.

[Anonymous]

would augostos/reagan duet stop fucking every thread up with there bullshit already? he thinks capitalist are void of compasion for others and os do i so fuck off

[reagan lives]

OH, well if El_Che says it then it must be true. I guess I'll stop arguing over it. Because, again, this is obviously my fault.

[Anonymous]

whats your fault? what you talking about? i not interested if its your fault or not capiche. Just respect my opinion with relation to capitalists and stop contradicting every thing that is said... its my opinion so respect it even if you disagree. Ya turn everything into a bloody argument. People dont come here to be harrased you know? and to have to justify there opinions to the right at every step... Its a leftist community B.

Maybe we should create a "reactionary club" so reagan augostos mad max fantonas and soopyawhaterver can spew there crap and not bother anyone

(Edited by El_Che at 1:03 am on Nov. 7, 2001)

[RedCeltic]

You know... this shit is getting old. Gooddoctor simply made an off handed remark. But ya know what on a bb dedicated to an anti Capitalist he should be able to make an off handed remark like that without the entire thread becoming yet one more series of debates of capitalism vs socialism.

[reagan lives]

I'm sorry, that makes no sense to me. This is a discussion forum, as I understand it, and this is how people discuss things. He said something I didn't understand, and once it was clarified, I didn't agree with it, so I said so and justified why I think that. Jesus. I'm sorry if I'm interrupting your delusional socialist reverie, in which you sit on this board and hide from the rest of the wide world because most of its inhabitants disagree with you. Instead of having to face people who will make you justify your beliefs, you sit here in the dark and declare yourselves kings of infinite space. You can hide in here and pretend that you know more than the vast majority of the people walking this planet, who think that you're just wrong. I'm sure that in the past one or two dissenters wandered around here, and you sent them packing by bullying and other assorted maleficence. A few of us who know what we're talking about have shown up lately, and refused to be pushed out, asking that you respect our right to voice our beliefs, just as we respect yours. And what do you do? Since I at least gave you no occasion to ban me, you went and created a new, exclusionary board, the better to shelter you from those who force you to pause and think about what you're saying.

So no, gooddoctor should NOT be able to make an "off handed remark" comparing "capitalists" (whatever THAT term means) to Nazis without being ready to justify it. I'm sorry if I'm overreacting here, but I'm just getting a little annoyed at the attitude of this board lately. That is, the attitude of the few people who are goodly enough to still post on this board every now and then...don't think I haven't noticed the dropoff in posts since the "Commie Club" opened.

The one positive thing about the "Commie Club" is that it proves that if you're posting out here, at least one of two things is true:
1) You fail to qualify for the CC, so you either have less than 50 posts or are not a member of the leftist establishment, and/or
2) You do qualify, but you post out here because you are open to the viewpoints of people who are not members of the leftist establishment.

So if you're going to say something, assume that you'll be asked to justify it. That's all I ask, and that's all that any reasonable person would ask of you. But don't ask ME to swallow whatever you guys say just because this board is "dedicated to an anti Capitalist."

[RedCeltic]

Yea that's right Reagan... we sit here on this bb and hide ourselves from the rest of the world... we don't at all exist in any shape or form in the real world... so, therefore all are communication is on a fucking bb.

What the hell makes you think that no one on this bb ever talks to anyone with diffrent opinions? Sadly most people I talk to are like you... they have closed minds.

[reagan lives]

If I was closed-minded, would I be here?

[gooddoctor]

again, i refer you to the ugandan farmer post to back up my off-hand comment. in uganda, mncs are treating the african population as if they don't exist for any purpose other than a commodity to serve their shareholder's interests. it's there, plain as poo. capitalism turns people into a commodity, an economic unit to be pushed and shoved around at the capitalist elite's whim, depending on how profitable it is. no name, no personality, just a price on a balance sheet. get a job in a factory like i once did if you want to truly understand what i'm talking about. why do you think they call it a labour market for christ's sakes?! open your eyes you poor puppet. i'm sorry to interrupt your delusional rupert murdoch dictated reverie. meanwhile, it is the socialism that i'm fighting for today, which has nothing to do with your perceived notions of national socialism, which will free the working people from the subjugation of being a commodity and allow them to follow their dreams and desires. after all, we will be the ones to wipe out the privelages of the capitalist elite and its encroachment on our democratic institutions that you are so sadly willing to defend. we've got them running scared. what do you think this war's all about? justice? i'm sure those in whose name this is being perpetrated are turning in their graves at this perversion. the war against terrorism? this is just making things worse, the conditions that produce terrorists out of ordinary people are still there, and new ones are being created all the time. no, this is about the american military wing of globalisation flexing its muscles at its enemies. they will not be able to crush the unbending will of the people with their guns and bombs. no, when the people rule, so will peace.
and why is everyone complaining about my remark? taking the discussion in a new direction prolongs the discussion. if people could only come to this thread and say "yep, anne frank was really brave blah blah..." it wouldn't last very long would it? you have to expand, that's what discussion's all about. if you still want to talk about anne frank here, i sure as hell won't stop you, so get on with it and stop complaining.
and on the subject of the commie club, it is so well ordered and progressive, we never get bogged down in any of these petty arguements with people who chose to consider theory more important than stark reality. that's why we go there, because we get so much more done.
furthermore, we will not stop bringing our message of truth and justice to the people of this world until we are the majority. we believe we are right whether you, being cut-off from the reality of the world by your corporate media, and being so reliant on what they and your spoon-fed education system tell you to think, chose to ignore us or not. more and more people are flocking to our banner daily. and need i remind you that once capitalists were the minority? soon they will be once more. oh and btw, i think you'll find that there are far fewer people on this planet who agree with you and share your phony american values than you think. many americans do, but they are commonly held up as being among the most ignorant figures of ridicule on the planet, in this country too. we laugh at your corrupt jerry springers, your disgusting hamburgers and stale beers, your hilariously stupid sports, your perversion of our great international language, your greed and opulence, and your infantile politicians. the world is laughing at you, but they are also angry and want to punish your administration for its crimes against humanity in the name of the corporations that run it. there are millions of anti-capitalists right on your very doorstep, and with each betrayal of ordinary people in favour of the capitalist elite, more and more will follow us on our march towards the institutions. we will crush all those who attempt to stop the people from achieving their goal once they have spoken, and embrace all those who want to join us. i hope you will be one of the second comrade.

(Edited by gooddoctor at 11:42 pm on Nov. 7, 2001)

[vox]

First off, nice post, gooddoctor.

Reagan Lives, if you accuse us of hiding, then what are you doing? You're here too. You can't be so delusional as to think that you're bringing truth to the masses. I don't mind saying that you're not quite Moses, mac.

The Nazis saw Jews as less than human. Capitalists don't even let humanity enter into the picture, only profit. Once again, that's why it's called CAPITALism. It's not a humanism at all. Ever been laid off, Reagan Lives? If so, you'll see my point on a personal level.

The boss is your "freind" until the profits shrink and the stockholders are unhappy, then you're just labor-power, an expense, red ink, less than human.

Indeed.

vox

[RedCeltic]

Well, it's fairly obvious that while your off handed comment may have brought nods of agreement by those on the left, it unfortunatly had to be explained to those who still can't see the parellels here and why humaniterians are against capitalism.

Under Fascism... Jews where not seen as humans but simply an infestation that needed to be eradicated so that the pure German race might rise.

Under Capitalism... Workers are not seen as humans but mearly as profit margins... in this instance one can say... " well... we can make do with only a 1/4 of 'em and press them to work harder there fore paying less wage and reaping more profit" When humans are not seen as humans.... it's inhumane... and there is your connetion with the Nazis.

[gooddoctor]

exactly.

[AgustoSandino]

hey gooddoctor, you're wrong.

[vox]

Apparently Agusto has taken up trolling in his free time.

vox

[gooddoctor]

no! you're wrong! i'm right, and so is vox!

[sabre]

quit arguing or ill get mommy to come and spank you

[Anonymous]

quote from augostos
hey gooddoctor, you're wrong.

lols, there you have it... the reactionary duet fucking up all the threads we dont lock up!

BUUUAAAAAAAAHHHH! im going to shoot my self! i cant get into the commie club because of some stupid error!

this is so depressing... dont you people have something else to do? like cultivate potatos

[Reuben]

Can we draw a hear and get back to the thread which related to Anne Frank and the Holocaust. Treat any off topic posts as if they have not been posted. Do not even respond. If you do wish to respond can I suggest that you do so with a personal Message.

Anyway, On the topic, I am very pleased at the positive responses to the post I madfe with regard to Jewish Resistance and the Warsaw ghetto uprising. One great book I read about the partisan resistance outside the ghetto was If Not Now When, a fiction by Primo Levi.

I have not read Anne Franks diary although I know about the content. However I think that part of the reason that it is so hardhitting and prominent, is that her situation was not so abosolutely removed, as was the situation of those in Auschwitz, that it is possible to empathise to some degree with the emotions and anxieties expressed.

Yours in Struggle,

Reuben

[booga]

whoa, you know i really wanted to read the entire four pages of the post but after reading your #1 post i was left dumbfounded. as much as i thrive inside of myself to explain, i cannot. i can say this: we have to believe that there is a way to fight one war...not wars and we have to believe that humanity will over conquer and put whatever need to be placed underneath our feet and kept there for the good of all of us. thank you for a very moving perception of your thought, its refreshing though tremendeously overwhelming. adelante. la victoria siempre!

[booga]

hey reuben, thanks for that bit of info, i never knew that, gee everyone has so much knowledge its great that people are willing to pull it all together and share it with others. myself im still stuck on 3 or 4 books and they dont have much to do with any of the topics here, well, of course im still reading che. most of the stuff i read is conspiracy...but i'll be checking out this "jewish resistance" now that i know about it. thank you.

[booga]

Quote: from Chief Rebel Angel on 7:28 pm on Nov. 5, 2001
yup thats it! too bad it's made for tv tho.. that would mean i'll never see it... :(


why do you say that? dont you watch t.v.? i dont but every now and then i'll catch a show or movie. i watched "dracula prince of darkness" and it was cool. i thinked i liked it so much because it had to do with the catholics (priests) ...hmm i wonder if they were anything like the "jewish counsel" back in b.c.? the ending of that movie just gripped me in the throat, i almost had an anxiety attack.

[gogo gomez]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 8:17 pm on Nov. 5, 2001
I saw this movie on HBO about a month ago.. .I forget the name... but it's about the Natzis trying to figure out what to do with the jews. And while some wanted to burn them all, and others seralise them... use them for labor, etc.... they all talked about them as if they where not even humans... It is a very frightening thing when people are totaly void of human compassion.


redceltic, your right it is very frightening it's almost unbelievable yet so true it's overwhelming. there is a word that socioligist use to describe a state that a mass of people will fall under but i cant remember the name right now, but it could explain why people do the things they do. for example : a town of whites gets all roused up by one lie such as; a black man has just raped a white woman, lets go hunt the nigger down and hang him, no trial, no nothing, we know that niggers guilty! so what does the mass of white people do? every single person gets "caught up" in this spirit of "wickedness" and not one person stops to think, hmm this is wrong...maybe he's innocent. so the black man is hunted down while the mass of whites praise him capture and his death. the black man never even knew what hit him. i keep asking myself this: what if just one person would have "snapped" out of it and stood up for the black man. would that have stopped the masses or would the white person standing up for the black man be hung along with the black man. masses of people can fall prey too just as one can become prey. hmm if this makes any sense...think on it.

[RedCeltic]

Well... it's more than just mass histeria. While people where acting in a mob mentality in some of these cases... it still doesn't explain the fact that some highly intelegent people sat down to a meeting to discuss what to do with the Jews. Not speaking of them as people... but as objects... or animals that have become a pest. This mentality has nothing to do with mob histeria but how one is raised into thiinking.

Of course in a mob scene, you can have groups of people swept up in the fury and not rationalise things out.... this may have to do with upbringing, but not nessecerally... for with the mob the are no longer in control, but part of the larger group that moves with rage.

The largest demenstration of cival dosobediance (in the US) happened in NYC in 1863. While the Norh and South where at the Battle of Gettysburg... New York City was under seige by hords of angery Irishmen and women. They raged in the streets for three days... burning African American churchs, schools, orphanages... attacking banks, newspaper headquarters...etc...

It had more to do with class struggle than race... but the race card was played out in it... because in those days the Irish and Blacks where both at the bottom rung on the social ladder. Irish took jobs away from Blacks because the would work for less wages... The feer was that if the slaves where free they would pour into NYC and take the jobs away from the Irish.

The fuse that light the powderkeg was the draft law that was passed in the city... where everyone would be on the list for the draft... but if you had $300 you could buy your way off the list... which was more than a year's wages for the Irish. So they went out into the streets with blind hate... not rationally thought out... just blind with rage... and bent on death and destruction.

I point this out as an example of mob mentality... if those people sat and thought about it the probobly wouldn't have done all that.

The Natis however is a diffrent story. Those people where intelegent, top notch polotitians of their day... and not blinded by any kind of mob mentality... the wheren't running through the streets in rage. These people sat calmly at a large table while joking about seralizing people... or putting them in gass chambers... how any human being can detatch themselves from the human aspect of the subject is beyond me.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 6:43 pm on Nov. 8, 2001)

[Anonymous]

RedCeltic is quite right, its not a case of mob mentality and thats whats so chocking. They set (the leaders and members of the nazi party) out to methodicly and systimaticly obliterate a race. This is something of unprecedented madness and the way it was carried out, in its maquiavelic "efectiveness" is truely obscene, discusting and revolting. I dont need mention any sepecifics im sure you all know what concentration camps where used and all the sordid sadistic details. As for the German people i really dont know what went wrong there, how could such a vill rethoric have bin so well acepted?

[Nickademus]

Quote: from El_Che on 3:59 am on Nov. 9, 2001
RedCeltic is quite right, its not a case of mob mentality and thats whats so chocking. They set (the leaders and members of the nazi party) out to methodicly and systimaticly obliterate a race. This is something of unprecedented madness and the way it was carried out, in its maquiavelic "efectiveness" is truely obscene, discusting and revolting. I dont need mention any sepecifics im sure you all know what concentration camps where used and all the sordid sadistic details. As for the German people i really dont know what went wrong there, how could such a vill rethoric have bin so well acepted?

regarding the ordinary germans, there are two excellent books about why ordinary germans became hilter's executioners. the books are christopher browning's "Ordinary Men" and daniel goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners". they are oppossing view so its hard to tell which one is true but they are both excellent reads and try to explain that very question.

[The Grim]

One of the most important things many people forget, is that you cannot unite unless you have a common language, are allowed information, and do not worry about any other issues.
Concerning the first point .... in the camps, many of the Jewish people were not allowed to communicate with each other, or unable to communicate with each other. French and German aren't exactly the same language. Also the guards supressed writing and speech.
Concerning the second point ... If you don't fully know what's happening, how can you know what to fight against? Who's on whose side? Who can you trust?
Concerning the last point ... many people were more concerned with finding out where their families were than with rising up. That is always the case. Once you knew that information, then you could make new plans. But first things first. Also, if your father were killed in a revolt against the guards, what would drive you? Vengence? What happens after you get that?

[Anonymous]

thanks for the tips Nickadamos. I have so many things i want to read i dont know which way to turn :)

[Naive]

Just for anyone who’s interested, there's a good book called “Women of the Third Reich” by Anna Maria Sigmund. It gives you an insight into the mentality of some of the wives of high ranking Nazis and the incredible devotion they felt towards Hitler. It‘s incredible to read some of their statements, how they thought he was such a charming and charismatic man, were completely convinced of the legitimacy of his ideals and even equated him with god.
The most interesting bio was on Magda Goebbels. Before she got involved in nazi circles she was in love with Vitaly Arlosoff, a Russian Jew and a staunch Zionist who’s considered one of the founding fathers of Israel. She gave up her marriage for him and while she was together with him firmly believed in his Zionist ideas. It’s unbelievable how later she did a complete 180 and turned into a raging anti-Semitic.

[Nickademus]

Quote: from Naive on 7:46 am on Nov. 10, 2001
Just for anyone who’s interested, there's a good book called “Women of the Third Reich” by Anna Maria Sigmund. It gives you an insight into the mentality of some of the wives of high ranking Nazis and the incredible devotion they felt towards Hitler. It‘s incredible to read some of their statements, how they thought he was such a charming and charismatic man, were completely convinced of the legitimacy of his ideals and even equated him with god.
The most interesting bio was on Magda Goebbels. Before she got involved in nazi circles she was in love with Vitaly Arlosoff, a Russian Jew and a staunch Zionist who’s considered one of the founding fathers of Israel. She gave up her marriage for him and while she was together with him firmly believed in his Zionist ideas. It’s unbelievable how later she did a complete 180 and turned into a raging anti-Semitic.



another excellent book. thanks niave for bringing that up.

the origins of nazi genocide is another good book as is lucy dawidowitz's War against the jews