The exchange of goods in Communism...

[Marxaveli]

I have seen much talk about no system of currency in a Communist society. My question is, for those that support such a system, how does the exchange of labor and goods take place exactly? I must profess ignorance on this issue. Enlighten me! :cool:

[Blake's Baby]

I don't think there will be 'an exchange'. The principle of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their work' is a pretty good one I think.

People will be able to take what they need from communal stores. If it's obvious that people are taking more than they need, perhaps to store it and somehow 'sell it back' to others when their raiding has reduced supplies, well, I expect their neighbours will want to give them a severe talking-to. But I don't think it'll be enough of a problem to worry about.

As for labour, you'll most likely be living in close proximity to your workmates and you'll be part of the workers' council(s) in the places you work. Again, if you start pissing about, people are going to notice and they're going to get concerned and if you don't make an effort they're going to get tetchy.

Is how I assume it'll work.

[_shameless_]

theres currency, its just used to buy only what state allows you to buy like food, clothing, ect. but nothing that really isnt a necessity

[ckaihatsu]

I don't think there will be 'an exchange'. The principle of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their work' is a pretty good one I think.




People will be able to take what they need from communal stores. If it's obvious that people are taking more than they need, perhaps to store it and somehow 'sell it back' to others when their raiding has reduced supplies, well, I expect their neighbours will want to give them a severe talking-to. But I don't think it'll be enough of a problem to worry about.


This may be the empirical litmus test for any kind of revolutionary social economy -- would people have enough confidence in a communist-type mass-open-distribution functioning so as to give up using black markets altogether -- ? (And apparently to refrain from raiding...!)

(We know that people don't get contentious / political over quantities that are in *ample* supply -- like air to breathe -- much of capitalism is creating *artificial* scarcities.)





As for labour, you'll most likely be living in close proximity to your workmates and you'll be part of the workers' council(s) in the places you work. Again, if you start pissing about, people are going to notice and they're going to get concerned and if you don't make an effort they're going to get tetchy.

Is how I assume it'll work.


I think the average proletarian would be empowered almost to the degree of impact that a Roman Senator had during the time of the Roman Empire -- a direct material interest in the functioning of a civilization.

People wouldn't be identifying with work schedules as much as they'd be swarming around the steadily ongoing news cycle and producing opinions on forward-going courses of direction. Workers' civil society would be paramount and mass general discussions and decision-making over all projects -- necessarily all public works projects -- would be a routine matter of course.

[Blake's Baby]

theres currency, its just used to buy only what state allows you to buy like food, clothing, ect. but nothing that really isnt a necessity

Yeah, if this is your revolution 'comrade' rest assured I'd be agitating among the working class to overthrow you before the end of the first week. Swap the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie for the dictatorship of the state-capitalist party functionaries? Fuck that.

[jpointon]

Yeah, if this is your revolution 'comrade' rest assured I'd be agitating among the working class to overthrow you before the end of the first week. Swap the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie for the dictatorship of the state-capitalist party functionaries? Fuck that.

YES. I will borrow this quote from Karl Marx really quick, "If that is Marxism, then I am not a Marxist."


theres currency, its just used to buy only what state allows you to buy like food, clothing, ect. but nothing that really isnt a necessity

This, is a disgusting perversion of Marxism, the kind we all need to work to abolish. Communism is about freedom. How free is being enslaved by your state-capitalist masters? Just as free as wage slavery, comrade.

[Die Rote Fahne]

theres currency, its just used to buy only what state allows you to buy like food, clothing, ect. but nothing that really isnt a necessity

There is no state in a communist society. Ever read the communist manifesto?

[Omsk]

It is obvious it was an attempt to provoke people,and it succeeded.Good job comrades..

[ckaihatsu]

theres currency, its just used to buy only what state allows you to buy like food, clothing, ect. but nothing that really isnt a necessity


That *would* be an improvement over the way things are now, across-the-board, definitely. Other political issues would remain, doubtless. Who would control this bureaucratic administration? Would it be the workers themselves, over those positions in a self-proclaimed collective -- ? Would they have the same collective-oriented interests as the larger workers parties, groups, orgs, ...? By what process would the numbers be set a certain way and not in another, yada-yada....

[Sputnik_1]

I don't think there will be 'an exchange'. The principle of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their work' is a pretty good one I think.

People will be able to take what they need from communal stores. If it's obvious that people are taking more than they need, perhaps to store it and somehow 'sell it back' to others when their raiding has reduced supplies, well, I expect their neighbours will want to give them a severe talking-to. But I don't think it'll be enough of a problem to worry about.

As for labour, you'll most likely be living in close proximity to your workmates and you'll be part of the workers' council(s) in the places you work. Again, if you start pissing about, people are going to notice and they're going to get concerned and if you don't make an effort they're going to get tetchy.

Is how I assume it'll work.

The thing I was wondering about lately, is how long the transitory phase between capitalism and proper communism you're describing would take, and how would it look like more or less. I started to think that it might take the whole generation, cause some people will never get used to such a system and won't accept it. If a kid is grown in a society that teaches him/her justice and equality since little (and I'm not talking about the illusionary one of the current system) he'll never have problems with accepting that state of things (or at least I can't see the reason why he/she should as there is no more oppression). But a person who's been already brain washed and is really narrow minded might not accept such change at all (and it's gonna be probably more than one person). That's why I think that even if I'm lucky enough to see the revolution coming in my life time, I don't think I'll witness the final phase of communism.
Well, of course I might be totally wrong and I'd like to hear from you what do you think. Also, it's just hypothetically speaking, as I perfectly know that predicting how would things work after overthrowing current system is basically impossible.

[Blake's Baby]

Well, I hope we will be able to make the transition fairly quickly. But I do think the post-Revolutionary generations will look on us (those who lived through the last years of capitalism) with some pity and a little trepidation, as we're basically damaged goods.

[ckaihatsu]

[It's] just hypothetically speaking, as I perfectly know that predicting how would things work after overthrowing current system is basically impossible.


As materialists we know that certain *tendencies* will dialectically interact with varying forces / influences -- carving out trajectories through time -- that exist regardless of our access to actual empirical data detailing them at any point.

We could paint with a broad brush over *general* aspects for a post-capitalist mode of production. But we couldn't make an animated biopic movie that shows what it would look like to live and work there.

It's no longer a stretch to look for a forthcoming kind of world civil war -- with spreading mass protests, street occupations, and labor militancy happening as continuously as possible, throughout major and smaller cities -- the *real* elections, found within the public's political subconscious.

The populist left is finally starting to stand at least an arm's length away from the Democratic Party -- hopefully Wisconsin is serving as a model for how genuine grassroots political momentum is sapped and snuffed out in electoralist channels.

Oooop -- sorry if I digressed. Thought this was a forum for discussing the overthrow of the system...! (grin)

Part of what we do in our current, "pre-revolution" time is not to *predict*, though -- which (arguably) implies passivity -- but to *make happen*.

[ckaihatsu]

Well, I hope we will be able to make the transition fairly quickly. But I do think the post-Revolutionary generations will look on us (those who lived through the last years of capitalism) with some pity and a little trepidation, as we're basically damaged goods.


It'll turn out that the generation gap will be bridged with the pan-generational cultural political compromise known as Bono.

("Dude, you were stuck with the XBox -- ??? From our reality that's *barbarism*!!!)