Is fascism still a threat?

[SVeach94]

It seems that the revolutionary left takes great pride in combating fascism wherever it pops up. I actually agree with this (the whole "totalitarian one-party leader-worship" thing rubs me the wrong way), but I have to ask: is it still a threat?

I mean, people openly declaring themselves fascist have been completely and thoroughly discredited since 1945 (or '75, if you count Franco) outside of a few uninfluential fringe groups. Germany's got a ban on the swastika, and Nazis have become synonymous with evil in the modern world. China hates them because they're (nominally) communist and by virtue of the Japanese being in the Axis.

In terms of a one-party dictatorship arising that doesn't declare itself fascist but is in all but name, that seems very unlikely in the developed world. European countries and the USA both have strong safeguards against fascism, and the Arab Spring has marked the beginning of the end of dictatorship in MENA.

So, I guess my question is: why bother trying to combat an ideology that doesn't really seem like a credible threat?

[LuckyStrikes]

The fact is, no matter whether they are declared fascist or not they are a direct threat. And, without constant combat the likelihood of a fascist taking power in any country is very, very high. When you look at countries that were once democratic with tightening regulations, you see fascism. When you see one party, psudeo-communists countries like North Korea, you see fascism. It is still a very relevant threat. Fascism goes hand in hand with capitalism.

[SVeach94]

Fascism goes hand in hand with capitalism.

:confused: How so? Most western nations seems to be fairly open and democratic.

Or are you implying that capitalism creates inequality which is de facto fascism?

[rednordman]

Imo it really isn't. It the current capitalist governments that rule the world are way more calculated and kniving that pose the most treat.

Put it this way, they use fascists to exploit obvious and predictable populist opinions that arise due to their economic decisions. As soon as they are ever in danger of getting power, just watch the 'media machine' take a convenient left wing turn as they bombard the public to save the capitalists asses. Always works out for the capitalists in the end:(

[Krano]

:confused: How so? Most western nations seems to be fairly open and democratic.

Or are you implying that capitalism creates inequality which is de facto fascism?
Fascists can take power by democratic means also just like Hitler did. Here in Finland in 2012 elections we have a Nationalist running for president, hes party is known to be associated with Nazi groups. So yes Fascism is still a very real threat.

[Ocean Seal]

It seems that the revolutionary left takes great pride in combating fascism wherever it pops up. I actually agree with this (the whole "totalitarian one-party leader-worship" thing rubs me the wrong way), but I have to ask: is it still a threat?

So that's what bothers you about fascism. Not the whole class collaboration, killing militant workers and ethnic minorities, aggressive expansionism and militarism...



I mean, people openly declaring themselves fascist have been completely and thoroughly discredited since 1945 (or '75, if you count Franco) outside of a few uninfluential fringe groups. Germany's got a ban on the swastika, and Nazis have become synonymous with evil in the modern world. China hates them because they're (nominally) communist and by virtue of the Japanese being in the Axis.

Yes a lot of people hate them. I'm sure that a lot of people hated Hitler and Mussolini.



In terms of a one-party dictatorship arising that doesn't declare itself fascist but is in all but name, that seems very unlikely in the developed world. European countries and the USA both have strong safeguards against fascism, and the Arab Spring has marked the beginning of the end of dictatorship in MENA.

Ok this one is kind of funny.



So, I guess my question is: why bother trying to combat an ideology that doesn't really seem like a credible threat?
To be quite honest, at the moment they seem like a more credible threat to the proletariat than we seem to the bourgeoisie.

[RedRevolution1938]

No, they are not as great a threat as they were in the past when Fascism was taking a hold of Europe. It is important not to ignore combating Fascism now however, if we do ignore it, tomorrow we could find ourselves in a concentration camp.

[Misanthrope]

:confused: How so? Most western nations seems to be fairly open and democratic.

Or are you implying that capitalism creates inequality which is de facto fascism?

What about the numerous fascist regimes Western states supported in the Cold War?

[scarletghoul]

It's a rising threat. With the collapse of liberal ideology especially people are turning towards fascism and even neonazism . The attack in Norway this year is the biggest symptom.. but in general attitudes like that are getting more common, especially the anti semitic element. In fact the rise in anti semitism is something ive really been noticing lately,, i was at occupylsx and the amount of 'ZOG' stuff and people who believed that shit was shocking.. i guess thats what happens when you blame 'bankers' for everything

tea party an all that too bla bla

[TheGodlessUtopian]

They are still very much a threat as when central governments start collapsing any number of militant groups can seize power with the right connections to weapons and so forth.

[workersadvocate]

It's a rising threat. With the collapse of liberal ideology especially people are turning towards fascism and even neonazism . The attack in Norway this year is the biggest symptom.. but in general attitudes like that are getting more common, especially the anti semitic element. In fact the rise in anti semitism is something ive really been noticing lately,, i was at occupylsx and the amount of 'ZOG' stuff and people who believed that shit was shocking.. i guess thats what happens when you blame 'bankers' for everything

This! The comment is right on target about how fascism tends to make gains after the collapse and/or betrayal of bourgeois liberals and the petty bourgeois Left. Fascism is the politics of counterrevolutionary despair.
Understanding that this reaction among workers is essentially an expression of despair (usually after feeling betrayed or becoming disillusioned with the big Left parties) is so critical to understanding fascism in order to successfully combat it. Not to mention, it adds some motivation and pressure upon us on the revolutionary Left...don't fuck up, or the fascists will certainly exploit our mistakes as much as they can, and some of the working class will be fooled into buying their line, out of despair.

This comment is also right on target about what happens when the Left speaks too vaguely, too wishy-washy, about the problem and the solution. If we don't put the whole capitalist system under our crosshairs, and don't focus on the international proletariat as the revolutionary class that will bury and replace this system, we actually are allowing political wiggle room for opportunists, and they will come in via 'the weakest link' and the 'lowest common denominator'.
"We're not against capitalism, just against greedy bankers and corporations" is actually the weakest link.
"We are the 99%" covers the lowest common denominator, as many here on Revleft have rightly criticized.
It's vital that we go to working people who are at this starting point, but we must not leave them there and be satisfied that they aren't Tea Party or worse. See, if we don't take this Occupy movement, extend it widely and deeply in the working class and its struggles worldwide, making it our independent vehicle for mass mobilizations and unifications of all fronts of our class struggles...if we don't, some of these Occupy supporters will go Tea Party or worse (that ones Zenga encountered at the Occupy protest talking about 'ZOG' surely didn't come up with that crap all on their own, so you already know that fascist reaction is hunting for new victims within Occupy events even now).

[Commissar Rykov]

When the Bourgeoisie get waist deep in shit they will always look to the Petit-Bourgeoisie to defend Capitalism and Private Property under the banner of Fascism. That is what originally started the crisis in Europe the rise of Proletariat Parties and the collapsing of International Capital lead to the institution of Fascist Regimes to defend the Capitalists from the very workers they exploit. One could even say at this point it is probably a built-in safety mechanism for the Bourgeoisie as it allows them to blame someone else for the bloodletting while continuing to profiteer.

I mean look at Nuremberg Tribunals. Who was put on trial? The Petit-Bourgeois Hangmen and Party Functionaries. Who was put back into control of Germany and Italy? The very same aristocrats and members of the Bourgeoisie who enabled those barbarians into power in the first place.

[RGacky3]

Its not a threat, at least not in any form recognisable as classical fascism.

[NewSocialist]

Fascism is still a threat and will remain a threat until world socialism. it doesn't matter if a party claims to be “fascist“ or not. some claim to be right wing parties, others centrist (see the American 3rd Position), and others even have the nerve to claim to be “communist“ (click here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=5749) for examples). the result is always the same tho -nationalism of some kind meant to prevent internationalism. it's usually used as a tool of the bourgeois during times of economic downturns to prevent *real* socialism from gaining groud

[Tablo]

Fascism is not a threat in the least bit. The historical period that gave rise to fascism is long gone. At the moment we have much greater challenges being put forward by the modern bourgeoisie. Not to say we shouldn't oppose fascists, we should. It is just that they are insignificant and will never gain any level of notoriety in this time period.

[Zealot]

When capitalism starts to collapse proper you will certainly see the rise of fascism again. Just like it rose in England before the fascist party was banned in 1940:

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[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Fascism is capitalism in extreme crisis. As long as capitalism exists, fascism will be a threat.

[RGacky3]

When capitalism starts to collapse proper you will certainly see the rise of fascism again. Just like it rose in England before the fascist party was banned in 1940:


I don't think so, I think extreme right wing ideology is due to capitalism collapsing, buy how it manifests itself will definately be different from classical fascism.

[Collectorgeneral]

Looking back at history, the last time capitalism was in a major quandry it resulted in the rise of authoritarian dictatorships all across Europe. If the same thing happens again then what guarantee do we have that these new governments will not be abiding by the ideals of national socialism or outright fascism? So yes, it is a threat and a very real one at that.

[Nox]

I've noticed that when the economy starts to go in the shit, lots of people begin to turn to the far right (libertarianism, ron paul bla bla bla), or the 'third way'/nazism/fascism. They also start to blame all their problems on scapegoats which fits in to the picture perfectly. Some people turn to the far left but the number is relatively low compared to the other directions people go.

The last time Germany had an economic crisis, we saw the rise of the Nazis in a country that people thought was certainly going to have a communist revolution.

[Sasha]

Its not a threat, at least not in any form recognisable as classical fascism.


Fascism is not a threat in the least bit. The historical period that gave rise to fascism is long gone. At the moment we have much greater challenges being put forward by the modern bourgeoisie. Not to say we shouldn't oppose fascists, we should. It is just that they are insignificant and will never gain any level of notoriety in this time period.


Fascism is capitalism in extreme crisis. As long as capitalism exists, fascism will be a threat.


I don't think so, I think extreme right wing ideology is due to capitalism collapsing, buy how it manifests itself will definately be different from classical fascism.

classic fascism is not a direct political thread, as in that in most countries we wont see a fascist dictatorship grabbing power any time soon. but fascist groups are a very real thread to the workers, in lots of countries fascist and neo-nazi groups are big and organized enough that they can and will harass and attack both minorities (increasing the scapegoating) and (revolutionary) leftists (diminish the direct thread to the right/capitalism).
as such they are so useful to the bourgeoisie that one can see that where they drop their democratic masks (greece, italy) they are directly employed by the new economic junta's (in both countries former fascist streetfighters with still lots of influences in the fascist groups they came from hold senior positions in the new governments).
and the right in still "democratic" countries prepares for this moment, one only needs to look at how the neo-nazi terrorists in germany where actively protected and facilitated by (rightwing elements of) the secret service or how different proto-fascist groups are treated in the u.s. compared to how leftist groups are treated.