UK embassy stormed in Tehran, British flag burned, Iranian raised

[ВАЛТЕР]

Several dozen Iranian students have stormed the UK embassy in Tehran, chanting “death to England” and bringing down the British flag.

https://rt.com/news/iranian-students-occupy-uk-embassy-481/

[mrmikhail]

Iranian students really have a thing for storming western embassies, don't they?

[IndependentCitizen]

Yeah, I fail to see the point. You'd think rather than storming an embassy, they'll try and protest for better rights for themselves. I know this is a reaction to the sanctions we've imposed, but doing something to banks isn't as bad as being oppressed by an theocratic dictatorship.

But what ever floats their boat.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Iranian students really have a thing for storming western embassies, don't they?


I think they take a course on it in the universities.

Seriously now, what are the chances of the English going into a patriotic fervor over this incident?

[Agathor]

I think they take a course on it in the universities.

Seriously now, what are the chances of the English going into a patriotic fervor over this incident?

Britain doesn't have American's flag fetish, so there won't be an uproar about the burning of the Union Jack.

If they take some hostages there might be a problem.

Is there a reason that they are targeting the British Embassy rather than America's or Israel's? I suppose it might have something to do with the revelation that the cabinet were preparing to support an American invasion, but I thought that was obvious?

What's the Iranian government doing?

[the last donut of the night]

Yeah, I fail to see the point. You'd think rather than storming an embassy, they'll try and protest for better rights for themselves. I know this is a reaction to the sanctions we've imposed, but doing something to banks isn't as bad as being oppressed by an theocratic dictatorship.

But what ever floats their boat.

im no proponent of nationalism, but i'm also no proponent of just accepting imperialist sanctions, either

[Tim Finnegan]

Several dozen Iranian students have stormed the UK embassy in Tehran, chanting “death to England” and bringing down the British flag.I don't know whether to be offended or flattered by that omission... :glare:

[ВАЛТЕР]

Britain doesn't have American's flag fetish, so there won't be an uproar about the burning of the Union Jack.

That's good news.


If they take some hostages there might be a problem.

Nothing suggests that they have done so.


Is there a reason that they are targeting the British Embassy rather than America's or Israel's? I suppose it might have something to do with the revelation that the cabinet were preparing to support an American invasion, but I thought that was obvious?

From the RT story: "This siege comes two days after Iran downgraded the diplomatic and trade ties with UK. That was done in response to earlier UK government’s decision to tighten economic sanctions against Tehran over its nuclear program."


What's the Iranian government doing?

The students have fought with riot police, so obviously they were sent to defend the embassy. However I doubt the Iranian government is going to anything serious to condemn the action.

[mrmikhail]

Is there a reason that they are targeting the British Embassy rather than America's or Israel's?


There is no American (anymore at least) nor Israeli (ever) embassy in Iran.

[mrmikhail]

The students have fought with riot police, so obviously they were sent to defend the embassy. However I doubt the Iranian government is going to anything serious to condemn the action.

They asked the students to please leave the territory of the embassy. I do not think the riot police nor Iranian military can do anything aside from ask them to leave, without permission from the UK at least due to the embassy being sovereign territory of the UK....

[danyboy27]

The action seem to be a way for the Iranian governement to foster Iranian nationalism in a time of crisis.

[Nox]

Nice one Iranian students!

[Tim Finnegan]

Nice one Iranian students!
For an anarchist, you seem awfully impressed by what is quite explicitly an act of nationalistic chauvinism.

[IndependentCitizen]

im no proponent of nationalism, but i'm also no proponent of just accepting imperialist sanctions, either
I do apologise in hindsight if I made it out that I suggested that they accept the imperialist sanctions. However, I don't think this is doing much to help their cause.

From my own personal opinion, I think the West and the Iranian government are gagging for a confrontation, just either side is too scared to throw the first stone. And actions like this will lead to a growing bubble of desire for confrontation; if the working class protested against both the imperialists and the government, then perhaps something might form. But of course, the situation is more complicated than simply "they need to do this and that", and I accept that. I just think this could be something the government can use to rally people in support of its theocratic institution.

[Nox]

For an anarchist, you seem awfully impressed by what is quite explicitly an act of nationalistic chauvinism.

I was of the impression that it was just hatred for the British government.

[IndependentCitizen]

I was of the impression that it was just hatred for the British government.
For what its doing to their nation, it's still a nationalistic act as they rose their flag after the burning...

If it were a red flag on the other hand..

[Tim Finnegan]

I was of the impression that it was just hatred for the British government.
Do you have any particular reason to believe that those involved were so greatly concerned with the nuances of political organisation as to make any substantial distinction between the British state and the British people? They certainly exhibited a clear investment in the concept of the popular nation-state in their expressions of Iranian nationalism, so until I see something a bit more substantial, I'm going to have to assume that this was an act of hostility towards one bourgeois nation-state on behalf of another.

[mrmikhail]

For what its doing to their nation, it's still a nationalistic act as they rose their flag after the burning...

If it were a red flag on the other hand..

A red flag in Iran? All of the Iranian communist parties are in exile, so that isn't going to happen.

[norwegianwood90]

Cue pompous ass Nick Griffin in 3... 2... 1...

[Tim Finnegan]

A red flag in Iran? All of the Iranian communist parties are in exile, so that isn't going to happen.
How many communist parties were present when the red flag was raised over Merthyr?

[IndependentCitizen]

You'd think rather then criticizing others you would protest for better rights for yourself. This isn't as bad as being under a backwards monarchy.
Are you fucking serious?

[mrmikhail]

How many communist parties were present when the red flag was raised over Merthyr?

to be true that was the first time ever the red flag was used in a rebellion of workers, so it kinda set the standard

A red flag these days in Iran might get you hanged, and apparently Iranian students are more on the right wing side of the fence than the left, much less the revolutionary left

[mrmikhail]

You'd think rather then criticizing others you would protest for better rights for yourself. This isn't as bad as being under a backwards monarchy.

That is pretty debatable....one reactionary force was replaced with a more reactionary force (albeit one who had more public support and someone to scapegoat all the national problems from the pre-revolution until now)

[Ocean Seal]

Nice one Iranian students!


For an anarchist, you seem awfully impressed by what is quite explicitly an act of nationalistic chauvinism.
This is an opportunistic criticism of Nox. Nox is not cheering on the fact that the Iranian students replaced the British flag with their own, but rather that they took down the flag of an imperialist warmongering power. It should also be noted that this is at a time when the world is talking about invading Iran. That act of aggression more than calls for this type of behavior. And what did you expect them to replace it with: a red flag, and then be fried fish instead of national heroes?

[Tim Finnegan]

This is an opportunistic criticism of Nox. Nox is not cheering on the fact that the Iranian students replaced the British flag with their own, but rather that they took down the flag of an imperialist warmongering power.
It is possible to conceive of the two actions as meaningfully distinct on a political level? The fact that the process can be divided into two mechanical stages does not in itself imply anything of the sort. You will need to elaborate on that, because I am very much unconvinced.

(Edit: Also, "opportunistic"? What opportunities are there for me to be istic about? I've no beef with Nox, nor would this gain me any points if I did. :confused:)


It should also be noted that this is at a time when the world is talking about invading Iran. That act of aggression more than calls for this type of behavior.The phrase "revolutionary defeatism" is apparently alien to you.


And what did you expect them to replace it with: a red flag, and then be fried fish instead of national heroes?I really don't give a damn what they do, I'm just surprised to see someone who describes themselves as an "anarchist" cheering it on.

[mrmikhail]

Smoke rose from some areas of the embassy grounds and the British flag was replaced with a banner in the name of 7th century Shiite saint, Imam Hussein. Occupiers also tore down picture of Queen Elizabeth II.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/iranian-students-storm-british-embassy-tehran-123229726.html)

So apparently they replaced the UK flag with a religious icon.

[Ocean Seal]

It is possible to conceive of the two actions as meaningfully distinct on a political level? The fact that the process can be divided into two mechanical stages does not in itself imply anything of the sort. You will need to elaborate on that, because I am very much unconvinced.

(Edit: Also, "opportunistic"? What opportunities are there for me to be istic about? I've no beef with Nox, nor would this gain me any points if I did. :confused:)

The phrase "revolutionary defeatism" is apparently alien to you.

I really don't give a damn what they do, I'm just surprised to see someone who describes themselves as an "anarchist" cheering it on.

Perhaps opportunistic was the wrong word, what I meant was incorrect. There is nothing out of line with his views and what he is cheering on. Its not wrong to cheer on storming a British embassy even if it is done with nationalist sentiments. This is a time when there is talk of invading Iran and massive sabre-rattling. If anything these people are standing up to the aggressive militarism of the world's imperialist regimes. Also I'm not a revolutionary defeatist, I'm just saying that I wouldn't expect a red flag here just out of observing the material conditions.

[IndependentCitizen]

That is pretty debatable....one reactionary force was replaced with a more reactionary force (albeit one who had more public support and someone to scapegoat all the national problems from the pre-revolution until now)

Pretty debatable?

Whilst I fundamentally despise the monarchy, at the very least it isn't oppressing women, the gay community and anyone of an minority religion. Within the UK, I still have the freedom of knowing I can protest without being shot with live bullets, my best friend can be openly gay and not worry about being hung or my girlfriend being beaten because of how she dresses. The UK has loads of issues, but none as important as the lack of freedom the majority in Iran have.

[Nial Fossjet]

Now, if they were Green Revolution protesters, they'd be storming the Russian embassy.

[Franz Fanonipants]

So apparently they replaced the UK flag with a religious icon.

well-played, Iranian students

[Invader Zim]

I was of the impression that it was just hatred for the British government.

Well, that might be the case were it not for the already stated context.

I find this bizarre. Though, as have been pointed out, I see that they forgot about us over in Wales.

[The Insurrection]

Good. I hope they kicked the fuck out of the British ambassadors head.

[Luc]

Good. I hope they kicked the fuck out of the British ambassadors head.

Embassy peoples were evacuated

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15936213

[Tim Finnegan]

Perhaps opportunistic was the wrong word, what I meant was incorrect. There is nothing out of line with his views and what he is cheering on. Its not wrong to cheer on storming a British embassy even if it is done with nationalist sentiments. This is a time when there is talk of invading Iran and massive sabre-rattling. If anything these people are standing up to the aggressive militarism of the world's imperialist regimes.
But, again, I don't think that a distinction between a "good" and a "bad" aspect of this action is in any way self-evident. Marxism demands not just a series of negative positions, an opposition to X, Y and Z, but a over-arching positive position, support for international workers' power. That means that we can't just line up to cheer for anyone who happens to oppose things that we also oppose without paying reference to who they are and why they oppose it; the enemy of my enemy is not automatically my friend. Just because we may oppose imperialism, and so may support particular anti-imperialists, that doesn't mean that we give carte blanche to any and all who fit that single criterion when they are active and irreconcilable enemies of our fundamental, positive position. Khomeini, to take only the most immediately relevant example, was also an "anti-imperialist".

And aside from anything else, let's not forget that popular Anglophobia has been conciously cultivated by the Iranian government to deflected chauvinistic rage away from the US and onto its junior partner so as to diffuse tensions for their own purposes. Even on its own terms, there's no real anti-imperialist political conciousness here. It's just a bit of spontaneous mook-work for the Iranian state.


Also I'm not a revolutionary defeatist...Wait, so you really are unfamiliar with the term? Because it's kind of meant to be a good thing...


Revolutionary Defeatism is a concept made most prominent by Vladimir Lenin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin) in World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I). It is based on the Marxist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism) idea of class struggle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_struggle). Arguing that the proletariat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat) could not win or gain in a capitalist war, Lenin declared its true enemy is the imperialist leaders who sent their lower classes into battle.


...I'm just saying that I wouldn't expect a red flag here just out of observing the material conditions.I don't disagree. My point is that we have no obligation to cheer for the sake of cheering, so why not wait until something worth cheering actually appears?

[El Rojo]

good for them. they might be theocratic nutters, but certainly wouldnt trust a british embassy, dens of imperialist toffs who quaff champagne and assist extraordinary rendition. and i do love to see the british flag burned

[mrmikhail]

Pretty debatable?

Whilst I fundamentally despise the monarchy, at the very least it isn't oppressing women, the gay community and anyone of an minority religion. Within the UK, I still have the freedom of knowing I can protest without being shot with live bullets, my best friend can be openly gay and not worry about being hung or my girlfriend being beaten because of how she dresses. The UK has loads of issues, but none as important as the lack of freedom the majority in Iran have.

I was referring to the Iranian Monarchy and the Iranian Islamic state, not the UK monarchy.

[sulla]

I do apologise in hindsight if I made it out that I suggested that they accept the imperialist sanctions. However, I don't think this is doing much to help their cause.

From my own personal opinion, I think the West and the Iranian government are gagging for a confrontation, just either side is too scared to throw the first stone. And actions like this will lead to a growing bubble of desire for confrontation; if the working class protested against both the imperialists and the government, then perhaps something might form. But of course, the situation is more complicated than simply "they need to do this and that", and I accept that. I just think this could be something the government can use to rally people in support of its theocratic institution.

Iran gagging for a confrontation? That is blatantly false. The USA is getting worked up over nothing, cause they hate the fact that Iran is not under there control.

While it is not a nice country, Iran is basicly a peaceful one. When was the last time Iran invaded somewhere?

[sulla]

Pretty debatable?

Whilst I fundamentally despise the monarchy, at the very least it isn't oppressing women, the gay community and anyone of an minority religion. Within the UK, I still have the freedom of knowing I can protest without being shot with live bullets, my best friend can be openly gay and not worry about being hung or my girlfriend being beaten because of how she dresses. The UK has loads of issues, but none as important as the lack of freedom the majority in Iran have.

Sound like a reformist liberal to me comrade! :D

Just kidding. Seriously though, what has this got to do with anything? By the standards of the reign Iran is pretty liberal. (Compared to some American client states in the region.)

Also the way Iran is being confronted will not help out the people. In fact it is a gift to the more reactionary elements in Iran.

I've only got so much time and energy, so I don't get worked up about a other countries issues, unless they are linked to my own. It is a waste of hot air to condemn the crimes of others.

[Smyg]

While it is not a nice country, Iran is basicly a peaceful one. When was the last time Iran invaded somewhere?


1996, I believe, and that is not counting for the Iran–PJAK conflict.

[hatzel]

For those of you from outside the UK I'll just let you know that this only made it to page 8 of the Sun and has therefore probably already been forgotten about by the vast majority of the country. In fact I'd be willing to bet that a not insubstantial chunk of the population don't actually know it ever happened, and many of those who do know probably don't exactly care. Still, whoever it was who said this would rally the British people in support for an invasion of Iran or whatever the exact claim was...well, clearly that's exactly what's going to happen, despite the overwhelming illusion of apathy :)

[A Marxist Historian]

For those of you from outside the UK I'll just let you know that this only made it to page 8 of the Sun and has therefore probably already been forgotten about by the vast majority of the country. In fact I'd be willing to bet that a not insubstantial chunk of the population don't actually know it ever happened, and many of those who do know probably don't exactly care. Still, whoever it was who said this would rally the British people in support for an invasion of Iran or whatever the exact claim was...well, clearly that's exactly what's going to happen, despite the overwhelming illusion of apathy :)

When Ahmedinajad et.al. invaded the US embassy in Iran in 1979 or thereabouts and kidnapped US diplomats that generated a huge wave of national chauvinism in the US vs. Iran. Why not in Britain? Because the US is a major imperial power, whereas England is a poodle hanging on the American leash, and poodles expect to be kicked around every so often.

I do not see this as being a supportable anti-imperialist action. What does this accomplish? What did it accomplish in 1979 for that matter? It's just a stupid stunt to distract attention from more important issues, like the price of bread. If anything, having a functioning British embassy in Teheran is a good thing, a minor obstacle to US and Israeli imperialist misadventures.

If Iranian college students want to do something serious to resist US imperialism, instead of staging stupid and counterproductive stunts like this they should study nuclear engineering and help their country get its badly needed bomb.

-M.H.-