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B0LSHEVIK
29th November 2011, 04:05
According to Lenin's own prophetic vision, in a postscript he added (after Stalin apparently harassed his wife) to his socalled 'testament,' Lenin says:


That is why I suggest that the comrades think about a way of removing Stalin from that post and appointing another man in his stead who in all other respects differs from Comrade Stalin in having only one advantage, namely, that of being more tolerant, more loyal, more polite and more considerate to the comrades, less capricious, etc. This circumstance may appear to be a negligible detail. But I think that from the standpoint of safeguards against a split and from the standpoint of what I wrote above about the relationship between Stalin and Trotsky it is not a [minor] detail, but it is a detail which can assume decisive importance.

Also in the document, an analysis of Stalin and Trotsky:


Comrade Stalin, having become Secretary-General, has unlimited authority concentrated in his hands, and I am not sure whether he will always be capable of using that authority with sufficient caution. Comrade Trotsky, on the other hand, as his struggle against the C.C. on the question of the People's Commissariat of Communications has already proved, is distinguished not only by outstanding ability. He is personally perhaps the most capable man in the present C.C., but he has displayed excessive self-assurance and shown excessive preoccupation with the purely administrative side of the work.These two qualities of the two outstanding leaders of the present C.C. can inadvertently lead to a split, and if our Party does not take steps to avert this, the split may come unexpectedly


How did Stalin, Kamanev, Zinoviev able to hide this from the rest of Central Committee? I know they 'compromised' on how it would be read, once and no notetaking, but come on, how did the CC fail to heed Lenin's warning(s)?

ComradeOm
29th November 2011, 17:19
Probably because no one thought of Lenin as a prophet. This tends to get obscured in the cult that grew up after his death - in which adherence to Lenin's word was the ultimate source of legitimacy - but by the time he died (and the 'Testament' was read out) he'd been effectively removed from government for around two years. It was relatively easy to ignore him. Hells, the same people had done the same in 1917 when he was in Finland

It's far more of a tragedy that his later works (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1923/mar/02.htm) were ignored as well

B0LSHEVIK
29th November 2011, 19:05
Probably because no one thought of Lenin as a prophet. This tends to get obscured in the cult that grew up after his death - in which adherence to Lenin's word was the ultimate source of legitimacy - but by the time he died (and the 'Testament' was read out) he'd been effectively removed from government for around two years. It was relatively easy to ignore him. Hells, the same people had done the same in 1917 when he was in Finland

It's far more of a tragedy that his later works (http://server16.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/shhzdcy/s61jxpmap/p1/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/sbddukfpc/sopq/p1/archive/lenin/works/1923/mar/02.htm) were ignored as well

Good point.

I read that Fitzpatrick book you recommended. I like how she describes, generally speaking, the process by which Stalin turned his 'humble' position of General Secretariat into his path to power. And how Lenin, though against Stalin remaining in office, wasnt too much concerned with diminishing the Secretariats power; just concerned that the power lay with Stalin.

Also, Lenin in his lifetime was considered a 'first among equals.' But after his death, it made sense to create a myth around the man, embalm his body and put him up for display like a catholic saint. It would make succession easier and give the notion that the party was always 'highly centralized' with Lenin always giving the fatherly word.

TheGodlessUtopian
6th December 2011, 01:06
I find it odd how when Marxist-Leninist try and praise Stalin by showing quotes by Lenin they mysterious leave out the ones which criticize him (the same can be said when it comes to Trotsky).

Blake's Baby
6th December 2011, 01:14
Trotsky didn't want to make trouble. Also, he didn't in 1924 see Stalin as a threat. His main rival was Bukharin.

Geiseric
6th December 2011, 01:19
I never bring up quotes directly from Lenin or Stalin, I just rephrase whatever they said in support of my arguement and usually credit who said it. Anyways, I read a quote about trotsky from churchill, and he said that trotsky "Lacks very human qualities and shows no remorse for the sanctity of human rights." which Trotsky said at some other point, probably not referring to churchill, that "human rights is according to circumstance, so to critisise one for not abbiding by them is infantile". so yeah he was pretty methodical, but in the end the whites didn't come back to power, showing that methodical thinking from him and the rest of the bolsheviks was necessary. not saying the stalin purges, i'm just saying methodical in being cautious.