Chomsky provocateur?

[provocateur]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/02/college/...dddbcb3&ei=5034 (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/02/college/coll02QUESTIONS.html?ex=1145854800&en=b3ce51a79dddbcb3&ei=5034)

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I have seen that interview before... the interviewer is out to get Chomsky... it is so blatant...

"self-hating Jew"?

[SonofRage]

This is my favorite part

If you feel so guilty, how can you justify living a bourgeois life and driving a nice car?

If I gave away my car, I would feel even more guilty. When I go to visit peasants in southern Colombia, they don't want me to give up my car. They want me to help them. Suppose I gave up material things -- my computer, my car and so on -- and went to live on a hill in Montana where I grew my own food. Would that help anyone? No.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Yeah, the interviewer was really trying to trap Chomsky... to discredit him... render him a hypocrit...

But he was in good form... as always... it is pretty obvious that his answers were clipped... I wish I could read the full transcript...

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Have you considered leaving the United States permanently?

No. This is the best country in the world.

Why would he say that? :o

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 02:03 PM

Have you considered leaving the United States permanently?

No. This is the best country in the world.

Why would he say that? :o
Despite all its problems, I can't think of a place I'd rather live

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Victor,

Chomsky is an anarchist... his ultimate concern is human liberty. Chomsky is certain that the U.S. is the freest country in the world.

[Ortega]

the u.s. isnt a bad place to live... for all its problems, in a lot of other places you could be arrested at the very least for speaking out like chomsky does.

and thats a great interview, chomsky did a great job- ive got a copy of it taped to my door :D

[canikickit]

No. This is the best country in the world.

Chomsky said that because he has been brainwashed due to the culture of patriotism which exists in the U.S.


Despite all its problems, I can't think of a place I'd rather live

You would feel the same way about most other places, had you been born in them.


Chomsky is certain that the U.S. is the freest country in the world.

If Chomsky feels certain of that then he is a total fool. What "freedoms" does he have that I do not?

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 07:12 PM

Despite all its problems, I can't think of a place I'd rather live

You would feel the same way about most other places, had you been born in them.

That's certainly not true and I don't know why you would presume to know how I would feel in different situations. It would not be difficult to rattle off a long list of countries in which I wouldn't want to live.

I find the idea that Chomsky is a brainwashed patriot comical considering he has a long history of being a vocal critic of the US government and capitalism. Just because you don't agree with him, that doesn't mean he is a victim of US hegemony.

[BuyOurEverything]

I think that quote was taken out of context. There's many other countries that are freer than the US (Canada for one.) Maybe he feels that America is the best place for his views to be heard by the most people. Or maybe he just doesn't want to move, community is community.

[canikickit]

It would not be difficult to rattle off a long list of countries in which I wouldn't want to live.

Perhaps, but that's nothing to do with what I said.
I can presume to know what you would think in different situations, if they are hypothetical and you take the hypothetical conditions into consideration. If you were born in Ireland, and had grown up in ireland, you would have felt at home there, "despite all its problems", and would have similar feeling toward Ireland as you do towards the US.

I'm just pointing out that your feelings about the US are just ordinary patriotism. I don't think there's anything wrong with the way you feel about the US, but in the context of what you were replying to, I felt it was important to make that distinction.


I find the idea that Chomsky is a brainwashed patriot comical considering he has a long history of being a vocal critic of the US government and capitalism. Just because you don't agree with him, that doesn't mean he is a victim of US hegemony.

I didn't say that Chomsky was a brainwashed patriot, but that I feel he has had his emotions conditioned through years of hearing that shit.

It is not so simple as me disagreeing with Chumpsky.
How is the US "greater" than anywhere else?
Is their somehow more "freedoms"?
Are the advantages economic?
Are "the people" better?

I want reasons, not bold claims.

I think that Chomsky's reasons for feeling that the US "is the best country in the world" are entirely subjective, while this doesn't necessarily render his reasons invalid, I do feel that when in the public sphere, Mr. Chomsky should keep these ideals to himself.

The line of reasoning "best in the world" is what leads to Iraqis being bombed.

[Saint-Just]

Yes, Chomsky has swallowed the bourgeois line on freedom and democracy to think that the U.S. is the best country in the world. There are good things about living the U.S., but being a being imperialist power does not make it the greatest country in the world.

Chomsky knows what imperialism is, but his state of mind is bourgeois, it is the same of all non-Marxists, they lack a real consciousness.

[RedAnarchist]

Imperialism is an archiac dinosaur that should have been put down decades ago. Smaller, weaker nations must be free from the exploitation and dictation of larger countries like America, Britain, Russia and China.

[Don't Change Your Name]

With the "best country in the world" he could refer to some people, some aspects of the culture, some places, the freedom he has to speak that way (we have to recognise that, even in a "Communist" country he could be arrested, even killed, for saying what he thinks), etc.

Why should politics/economics be the only thing that makes you decide where to live?

[Blackberry]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)[email protected] 15 2003, 01:17 PM
With the "best country in the world" he could refer to some people, some aspects of the culture, some places, the freedom he has to speak that way (we have to recognise that, even in a "Communist" country he could be arrested, even killed, for saying what he thinks), etc.

Why should politics/economics be the only thing that makes you decide where to live?
Yes, he would have to kill himself otherwise, because there is no country in the world that he agrees with on a political and economic basis.

[emp]

Read some Chomsky before you criticize him at least. I've read about ten of his books. He is far from perfect. His anarchism is too idealistic. He mainly concentrates on what's wrong and has little in the way of solutions.

He is certainly aware in extreme detail of the imperialism committed by the US but he recognizes this is par for the course for a super power and for the average citizen (who has nothing to do with the imperialism other than his ignorance of it) in terms of oppurtunities, etc, this is the greatest country or at least right up there.

Also in blurting out, "This is the greatest country!" Chomsky may also be paying attention to the constant McCarthist attacks he is subject to.

I'd suggest that Manufacturing Consent by Edward Herman and Chomsky is the most important political book ever written.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I would agree with your analysis of Chomsky, emp...

I have not read as much as you, but I have read Manufacturing Consent. It is great. He definitely does not talk enough about how to fix our problems, but he is outstanding at identifying the problems...

Another criticism I hear is that he is seriously in danger of making his readers pessimistic. He does not emphasize well that the world can be changed. I have heard many people say that reading his work makes them depressed--I personally get angry, but I have traditional communist views that hold that the world can easily be changed with organization.

[Urban Rubble]

Good post emp, I totally agree.

The thing is, for the people that live here, the U.S is, for the most part, a wonderful place to live. I think most leftists (and obviously Mr. Chomsky) know that the reason we have the high standard of living and the relatively safe atmosphere that we have is because we are on the safe side of U.S aggression. Imperialism, Capitalism and all the other things we fight against are meant to serve the interests of the people pulling them off, no one else. The wealth from these crimes trickles down to reach the citizens of this country. But if you are on the other side the situation changes.

We are comfortable in this country because of the blood of the rest of the world. As Socialists it is our duty to see that the rest of the world can be safe from this kind of torture while still maintaining the benefits we currently have.

[noxious]

maybe chomsky wants to live and work in america because he understands that the most capitalist nation in the world is the one that has the most to do and will also be the first to embark upon any kind of progressive revolution.

okay,
I've got my lenninist/maoist BS meter installed and prepared for an onslaught.

[canikickit]

I criticised Chomsky because what he said was nonsense. I have seen nobody make any effort to support Chomsky's statement, indeed, I find it hard to believe that any of you actually agree with him.

Just because Chomsky has written some nice books and articles doesn't mean he can't have incorrect or reactionary ideas. Likewise, just because Chomsky has (or expresses) a reactionary or incorrect idea does not render all his work invalid.

Chomsky is an international hero, worthy of praise but he's not above my criticism. No one is.


Read some Chomsky before you criticize him at least.

What nonsense. Mr. Chomsky has clearly expressed his opinion in this interview. I don't need to read ten of his books to analyse that.


The thing is, for the people that live here, the U.S is, for the most part, a wonderful place to live. I think most leftists (and obviously Mr. Chomsky) know that the reason we have the high standard of living and the relatively safe atmosphere that we have is because we are on the safe side of U.S aggression. Imperialism, Capitalism and all the other things we fight against are meant to serve the interests of the people pulling them off, no one else. The wealth from these crimes trickles down to reach the citizens of this country. But if you are on the other side the situation changes.

We are comfortable in this country because of the blood of the rest of the world. As Socialists it is our duty to see that the rest of the world can be safe from this kind of torture while still maintaining the benefits we currently have.

Confirmation that the US is not the best country on earth.

Perhaps Chomsky had certain motivations for making that statement, and perhaps it was manipulated somehow to appear worse, but the statement he is credited with is what I am criticising.

Mr. Chomsky should make it his business to come to Che-Lives and clarify things.

[Blackberry]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2003, 12:57 PM
Mr. Chomsky should make it his business to come to Che-Lives and clarify things.

Why don't you make it your business to ask him what he meant?

[email protected]

[blackemma]

Chomsky bourgeois? Please...

Chomsky is a critic of imperialism, but he is also a critic of capitalism, whether that be state capitalism or corporate capitalism does not matter in the slightest. To say he lacks class consciousness is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read since he's arguably the most important figure of the later part of the 20th century to bring insight into capitalism in its modern form, especially with regards to the nature of corporate owned media.

Some argue that Chomsky is a critic, that he doesn't offer solutions. These people ought to read more Chomsky. Chomsky does have views on what a free society would look like, but he's not dogmatic and he recognizes the need for experimentation. Ditto with Marx, who for some reason manages to evade such criticisms.

Strict adherence to classical texts offers nothing but failed totalitarian experiments and political puritanism. Last I checked, Chomsky stood behind the Green Party which many people, including myself, feel is the best alternative to corporate capitalism and totalitarian 'socialism.' At least for now.

As much as all of us may enjoy sitting here and *****ing about how 'bourgeois' Chomsky is, I find that none of us have made anywhere near the contribution he has towards a new vision of equality and liberty and raising awareness of the ugly nature of capitalism.

[canikickit]

Why don't you make it your business to ask him what he meant?

Sounds like a plan, Mr. Skeptical Face.
Will do!

[SonofRage]

It seems silly to attack someone for a statement which is purely opinion. It's like if I say that the Matrix Revolutions was a great movie and you disagree. There is no amount of argument that can resolve such a disagreement.

another great post by blackemma btw

[praxis1966]

I think it's pretty obvious that all the quotes in that interview were edited in some manner. I've seen several televised interviews with Chomsky on CSPAN including one at Boston College and another with that white haired guy that just interviewed Michael Moore recently. In both cases, he gave answers to questions that were no where near as trite or contrived sounding as those were. Generally he'll spend at least 5 minutes answering even a simple yea/nay question.

[canikickit]

Praxis is right!

I sent an e-mail to Mr. Chomsky, below are both my e-mail and his response (a form letter relating to the issue).


It seems silly to attack someone for a statement which is purely opinion. It's like if I say that the Matrix Revolutions was a great movie and you disagree.

Perhaps there is no resolve to such an argument, but I think that the US is not the best country in the world, I have explained my reasons why, and such statements should not be accepted.

The Matrix is crap (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=11&t=18928&st=20).

E-mail to Chomsky:

"(America) is the best country in the world".

Mr. Chomsky,

The above quote from you was recently made aware to me on an internet forum. The source for the quote was this link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/02/college/...dddbcb3&ei=5034 (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/02/college/coll02QUESTIONS.html?ex=1145854800&en=b3ce51a79dddbcb3&ei=5034)

I have been a supporter of your writings on and criticisms of the capitalist and imperialist systems for some time. I find your writing inspirational and it fills me with the sense that I am right in my social outlook on life. You, alongside John Pilger and Roebert Fisk are one of the great voices in the media speaking up for ordinary people.

I was somewhat disappointed by the mentioned quote however. I think it is that very attitude of superiority which causes the US-led strike against Iraq. I'm not trying to accuse you of perpetuating imperialism, or anything of the sort, I just feel that this statement leads to reactionary attitudes.

I understand that the United States may the greatest country to you, but it is entirely subjective, and I am curious as to why you would make such a bland statement in the public sphere.

A discussion on this quote has begun in this link:

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...4&t=19071&st=20 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=19071&st=20)

Any reply would be much appreciated. Kind regards,

Whoop-de-whoo, Ireland.


Reply:


Dear Mr. de-Whoo,

I received so many queries about the "interview" that I finally took one of the responses and sent it out as a form letter. Added below. In brief, can't comment, because of the circumstances described below.

Noam Chomsky

------------------

Message: don't have interviews with the NYT. The questions were mostly pointless and inappropriate for an interview, but the interviewer was a nice and perfectly serious person, and after a lot of discussion -- went on for about an hour and a half -- seemed to get the point. The fact checker then called and went over a few "quotes" they were going to use, which I corrected, and she got the corrections straight -- but I see they left at least some of them uncorrected. The "quotes" are phrases extracted from long answers to the questions, mostly explaining (politely) why they are the wrong questions so I cannot answer them, and we should be talking about something different (sometimes discussed). That's why the "answers" are often so disconnected from the questions.

It's interesting to compare this with interviews in journals everywhere in the world, as far as I know, outside of the US mainstream; even in very poor countries, even dictatorships. Radio and TV too, everywhere. It is simply inconceivable that questions like these would be asked in an interview. Rather, questions about serious issues. There are plenty of forms of craziness, but this pathology is, to my knowledge, specific to US liberal intellectual elite culture. Even the photo tells you something about the newspaper trade here. The photographer, also a nice person, asked for a few shots without my glasses after 1/2 hour of very elaborate photography (came all the way to Gainesville for it, where I was giving talks). I said OK, but it's not me. That's the one they used. Why not just put a photo of some other person? What matters is not truth, but making it look a certain a way -- in this case, a childish and silly way. Trivial, but symbolic. It's a remarkable divide between US elites and the rest of the world.

I suppose by US standards it's not bad.

<_<

[Exploited Class]

Well one thing is for sure out of this, we know that he doesn&#39;t think the USA is the best place in the world for interviews.

[Hampton]

Dear Mr. de-Whoo

That&#39;s pure gold.

[praxis1966]

Hampton&#39;s right. That Dear Mr. de-Whoo salutation was priceless. I appreciate you going out of your way to get that clarified, Ciki. Although I was rather afraid that Noam wouldn&#39;t respond (he is after all a celebrity in many circles) I knew that couldn&#39;t be all there was to the story. That being said, I guess we can all go back to our gleeful reverence of Mr. Chomsky&#39;s life&#39;s work&#33; :cool: