The immortality of the soul

[honest intellectual]

I used to not believe in the immortality of the soul, but recently I've been having doubts.

(I'm basing all this on the dualist hypothesis: that the soul exists as a seperate, non-physical entity i.e. not just part of the brain. By 'soul' I mean the mind/ the spiritual presence/ your self-awareness/ your 'youness'/ your conciousness/ the 'someone in there' / the ghost in the machine. (Dig the way this entire paragraph in is brackets (or parentheses, if you prefer); that's real Marxist grammar (and so's the way I use brackets within brackets). Oh yeah!))

Here's what I've been thinking:

If one were to build a replica of a human brain from silicon and meatal in a lab, you would have, I reckon, the 'machine' without the 'ghost', a brain without a mind. So why is it that when the brain is built from carbon-based molecules in a womb, it then has a mind? Unless the womb had some secret ability to create a spiritual presence from nothing, is it not possible that the soul transmigrates for somewhere else, or someone else?

The mind is the most constant thing in human experience. It can make the transition from dreams to waking life (unlike the body or other physical presences). It can exist through brain damage (not that I know first-hand, but I guesss it does), through disease, coma, unconciousness. Because of this "stability of the intrinsic Mind", might it not also be able to survive death?

[Jesus Christ]

the whole concept of a soul is rather farfetched, though I do believe that everything is linked together by energy bonds and such
but the concept of a soul is merely an invention that provides people with a belief that they can live forever

every living thing has a mind, due to almost every living thing can think
according to mary shelly, frankenstein could think and was very intelligent, therefore he had a mind

just dont think too hard about the concept of the soul

[The Feral Underclass]

Oh please...energy bonds linking us together? All living things having minds? How many flowers do you know that have minds...surly to have a mind you need a brain to intepret it and you cant have a brain without a heart, blood and veins to carry it. I think we can safly say that isnt the case... as for trees and indeed bacteria.

The only think that links us together is the oppression and exploitation of capitalism...SOULS DONT EXIST!

[Iepilei]

The two constants in the world state that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. A great mind once made the correlation of matter and energy in a famous equation (e=mc2). Therefor, it is not without scientific backing that matter is energy - thus everything is composed of energy.

The concept of soul is often misinterpreted. It literally translates to, "breath," suggesting that which breathes the breath of life, inherantly has 'soul.'

But in modern terms we relate soul to sentience. The ability to recognise the world around us, and the knowledge that we are a part of a greater whole. Soul, to me, is nothing more than an abstract term which describes our sentience.

Many AI theorists state that a perfect, sentient artificial intelligence program will not be created, yet it will create itself using available resources as a 'base' for it. In essence, humanity will create machines that will one day become self-aware.

Many love to pass the notion that this is how human sentience arose amongst the chaos of the kosmos. I, myself, am one of those. However will we consider this new "artificial" sentience embued with this mythic depiction of 'soul?' It often makes you wonder how our perceptions will change as we progress in technology.

...considering we don't destroy ourselves with it, that is.

[honest intellectual]

liberAL, Anarchist Tension, I tink you will agree that the 'soul', in the sense I outlined in my first post, does indeed exist. I mean, you're looking at your computer and there's 'someone in there' looking out, but there's no one 'in' you computer looking back. That awareness of self is what I mean. The word 'soul' may be misleading, 'mind' might be more appropriate, bu these words have so many interpratations and meanings anyway.

Iepilei, firstly, isn't is 'spirit' that mean breath, not 'soul? From the verb spero, sperere...
In the book of Genesis, in the creation story, doesn't God breathe life into Adam? I think that the significance of spirit meaning breath is that spark of life, that animation, rather than the concept of a spiritual soul.

Anyhow, anyone have anything to say on my thoughts on the immortality thereof?

[Sheep]

id like to believe i have a soul... but i just cant bring myself to slit my wrists and find out. -- "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly. I said I don't know." -Twain

[BuyOurEverything]

I don't see how anyone can still seriously believe that a "soul" exists. Explain how, if we have a soul, the conditions in which a child is raised in can affect their personality. Also, how could brain damage affect someone's personality? The entire concept is comlpetely irrational and obviously false.

[honest intellectual]

Who said personality is determined by the soul?
I explained what I mean by the word above.

[BuyOurEverything]

The mind is the most constant thing in human experience. It can make the transition from dreams to waking life (unlike the body or other physical presences). It can exist through brain damage (not that I know first-hand, but I guesss it does), through disease, coma, unconciousness. Because of this "stability of the intrinsic Mind", might it not also be able to survive death?

That doesn't make sense. Because the mind can survive some things, it can survive anything?


Who said personality is determined by the soul?
I explained what I mean by the word above.

What exactly does the soul determine then? If the soul is counciousness but it doesn't determine personality, then does that mean that our soul doesn't determine what we do?

[honest intellectual]

That doesn't make sense. Because the mind can survive some things, it can survive anything?
Possibly. I'm not making any claims here - only conjecture.


If the soul is counciousness but it doesn't determine personality, then does that mean that our soul doesn't determine what we do?
Yeah, by my defintion.

[BuyOurEverything]

Possibly. I'm not making any claims here - only conjecture.

That's ridiculous. It's obviously incorrect.


Yeah, by my defintion.

So what the hell's the point?

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 12 2003, 04:01 PM
Oh please...energy bonds linking us together? All living things having minds? How many flowers do you know that have minds...surly to have a mind you need a brain to intepret it and you cant have a brain without a heart, blood and veins to carry it. I think we can safly say that isnt the case... as for trees and indeed bacteria.


The materialist theory of the world (Which you seem to like based on your denial of souls) holds that any organization of particles has a consciousness, but less-complex organizations have less-complex consciousnesses. So an organization like the earth actually would have consciousness, as would a flower. Just not human consciousness.

[IHP]

Honest Intellectual,

I personally believe in the soul, but I've argued this till death on this site, and I can't be bothered any more. Sorry.

[honest intellectual]

That's ridiculous. It's obviously incorrect.
Excellent point there. Really brilliant.


So what the hell's the point?
The point of what?

[Pete]

There is no soul but you are forever stuck in samsara Honest Intellectual. Forever. You are a reaction of what you where a moment ago which is a reaction of what you where the moment before then. You have no constant within you and are always changing. When you die your death will probaly cause a reaction that somewhere down the line leads to a birth which will be just like a reaction to your death so therefore, it being a reaction to you it will be part of your line. And each moment in that beings life will be a reaction to everything else. Always changing. You are screwed my friend to be soulless and in samsara for ever.

-Pete

[Rasta Sapian]

I BELEIVE in my soul, I think I am a dualist (i was not sure when I studied dualism, but i beleive that I am dualist now) The concept is difficult to concieve :blink:
I am fortunate that my body+brain (working @ minimum capacity) keeps my soul in check :P