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workersadvocate
22nd November 2011, 23:38
Note: This thread originally appeared in the Learning forum, but since it has to do with the #Occupy movement, I've moved it here and given it a more appropriate title. I've since closed the thread in Learning, with a link to here. -- Miles


I've been interested in the Workers Party in America, and know some members and supporters are active on this forum, but I'd like them to explain the concept and practice of revolutionary industrial unionism.

It would be very helpful if they could explain the relationship of revolutionary industrial unionism strategy to how they seek to advance the Occupy movement into a real independent working class mas-fightback movement. Even better if they can give concrete examples of how this is being applied in practice right now.

Some Left groups have said that we're now at a critical "turning point" in the Occupy protest movement. So, the question is really, how are we gonna turn this movement where it needs to go? I'm concerned about too much isolation and not enough independent mobilization from the working masses, which give our foes greater ability to counter our efforts and eventually crush and/or co-opt them. Occupying buildings is great, but that won't last long (just like occupying parks couldn't last perpetually) if the movement is left too isolated from the working class masses. How can we expand mass involvement and maximize independent workers' power and organization from here? If we're going to wage class war and aim for victory, we need our army to take the field and fight like an army, and we need independent credible organs of actual workers' class power to be established in all the working class neighborhoods, workplaces, schools, etc. Waiting for the existing union bosses to bring their tiny organizations to do this job will leave us waiting forever.

Seems to me that we need a much larger, much wider, much deeper and much more governed democratically 'from below' sort of organized working class movement, and this class movement must remain fully independent of the bourgeois system and all its servants. Why would I want to join any 'vanguard party' that wasn't proving its worth and its commitment to the proletariat by exerting itself to build and develop and advance such an independent mass class movement in the real world today? Words are too cheap and the cappies often like to posture populist for a bargain, but workers like me want to to be shown revolutionary proof in deeds like this.

Is revolutionary industrial unionism essentially what I'm describing, or is it something else? How does it really get applied, from the beginning, in practice?

Martin Blank
23rd November 2011, 02:10
Well, that's my cue....

I would suggest starting with this article: http://www.workers-party.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87&Itemid=88

I'll reply more specifically to your questions in a little while (in between meetings right now).

Martin Blank
23rd November 2011, 09:33
Before specifically answering, I'd like to say that these questions dovetail into a discussion being initiated among members, supporters and friends about the lessons of the last two months and what it would take for #Occupy to move forward. So thoughts, comments and constructive criticism are welcome.


It would be very helpful if they could explain the relationship of revolutionary industrial unionism strategy to how they seek to advance the Occupy movement into a real independent working class mass-fightback movement. Even better if they can give concrete examples of how this is being applied in practice right now.

The #Occupy movement, contrary to what some may think, has managed to draw growing sections of the working class into the movement as a whole. The result is that, more than two months after the first protesters pitched tents at Zuccotti Park, there is a growing workers' current that is, at the very least, open to communist politics and strategies. This, for us, is the starting point.

Unlike traditional protest movements, which are generally dominated by whomever has the largest PA system, the most pre-printed signs, etc., the occupation of territory (even if it as small as a park) becomes not only a focal point for action, but also the fulcrum on which the movement pivots. That is, the movement is no longer something that floats on the winds of chance. From the beginning, there is a tangible base of operations for the movement, an "free space" that can be used as, among other things, a launching pad for expansion and development of the movement itself. This is where, for us, the RIU strategy begins to gather flesh and bone.

From the beginning of the #Occupy movement, we have raised the slogan of occupying workplaces. We did not see this as counterposed to the existing occupations, but as an extension of them. The idea was that the #Occupy encampments, meetings and GAs could develop working groups that would go out from the occupations and organize workers on the job. In turn, as groups of workers became organized in support of #[email protected] (we'll just use this term for the sake of this discussion), they would, in fact, become de facto local units of an RIU-type structure. They would not only network with other workplaces in the area that are also involved with the #Occupy movement, but also with other similar workplaces in other cities. They could meet regionally, nationally, etc., to coordinate #Occupy-related activity, as well as send delegations to the local occupations. If/when workers at any of these workplaces felt ready to stage an occupation at their job, they would not only already have solid links with other workers in their location, but also through their industry or service ... which is the character of a revolutionary industrial union in the first place: One Grand Union of the working class.

Of course, there are a number of obstacles to overcome to get to this point. First, you have the petty-bourgeois democrats and liberal reformers, who are trying (and, in some cities, succeeding) to turn the #Occupy movement into a vehicle for re-electing Obama in 2012. They are also the same ilk who are using "non-violence" and liberal pacifism as a cudgel against any political current to their left. Second, you have the Ron Paul wolves in sheep's clothing, who also want #Occupy to be an electoral vehicle, but also throw sand in the eyes of participants by mystifying capitalism and blaming everything including the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby on "the Fed". Third, you have the hippy-dippy pothead "Kumbayah" crowd, who are involved in #Occupy either because they need a place to crash or a more solid weed connection. (Note: I have no qualms about weed myself, but I shouldn't get a contact high from standing next to some twenty-something white boy with dreds and a Bob Marley t-shirt for 30 seconds whose only response to any question is "Uhhh... Wut?") Fourth, and finally, you have a good chunk of the petty-bourgeois socialist movement, who all seem to think that "success = proper management". As long as the movement is under their practical, day-to-day leadership, the movement is an automatic success. And if you don't believe that to be true, just look at the stunning successes they had around the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, or freeing Mumia Abu-Jamal, or smashing the KKK and neo-Nazis, or....

Seriously, though, because the Party is beginning this discussion, I cannot, unfortunately, point to a particular location where we've begun to implement this element of our strategy ... yet. At the same time, we have been laying the basis for this in some of the areas where the Party has the presence to do it.

The sad reality of moving forward to build this kind of movement is that, in #Occupy groups where any of these four obstacles are to be found, it will probably require at least a "cold split" among participants along class lines to start it (for those unfamiliar with the term, a "cold split" is where a group remains formally united, but each part acts separately around a set of issues; this is different from a "hot split", which involves setting up a separate group). I say this because this is what has happened in the #Occupy group in which I'm currently involved. Some #Occupy groups that work more on the affinity group structure might be better able to avoid a cold split, but I cannot say for certain.


Some Left groups have said that we're now at a critical "turning point" in the Occupy protest movement. So, the question is really, how are we gonna turn this movement where it needs to go? I'm concerned about too much isolation and not enough independent mobilization from the working masses, which give our foes greater ability to counter our efforts and eventually crush and/or co-opt them. Occupying buildings is great, but that won't last long (just like occupying parks couldn't last perpetually) if the movement is left too isolated from the working class masses. How can we expand mass involvement and maximize independent workers' power and organization from here?

I happen to agree that we are at a "turning point" with #Occupy. Left to its own devices, I can see only two realistic alternatives for it: 1) the movement becomes a traditional protest movement, meaning that it withers on the vine and ultimately dies, or 2) it becomes something of a neo-squatting movement, becomes isolated and dies.

The C.C. of the Party is proposing that the central slogan for the moment be "Reorganize! Rebuild! Reoccupy!" It's a fine slogan and a decent call to arms, but the key issue at this point is what to do after reoccupation.

I think that one of the main mistakes of the first period of #Occupy was that there was little thought put into the idea of extension. In New York City, extension was seen more as expansion, in the respect that it seems the only time the idea of taking over another space was discussed was when Zuccotti Park became overcrowded. This also seems to have been the pattern nationally. For nearly two months, the #Occupy movement seemed content with the small patches of territory they initially overtook, and were rather timid about extending their control. While it is true that the capitalist state violently resisted the occupation of any area, the fact that the occupations were able to go through the initial period of expansion as quickly and relatively painlessly as they did is important to note.

Both our Party and the IWW use the formulation, "organizing the new world within the shell of the old". What does this mean concretely? In our view, it means organizing all of the basic structures for the workers' republic and using them to squeeze the life and perceived legitimacy out of the bourgeois regime and its state. The revolutionary industrial union, with its workplace committees and workers' councils, forms part of the base of that structure. Another part is the occupation of the "cracks" within the bourgeois system.

I recently saw an image online with the tagline "Occupy Petrograd: The Original Mic Check". Whoever made that had no idea how correct s/he was. During 1917, Petrograd saw a wave of occupations: the Bolsheviks occupied the Smolny; the Petrograd Soviet occupied the Tauride Palace; the unions and other parties also occupied buildings and spaces in the Russian capital. Every "crack" in the Russian capitalist system that emerged was quickly filled by radicalizing workers, students, soldiers, anarchists, socialists, etc. The more these fissures appeared, the more they were occupied by revolutionaries, to the point that those in the "cracks" were able to displace and dispossess the old organs of capitalist rule.

Today, we see small but similar "cracks" forming in the edifice of American capitalist rule. What we don't see is an occupation movement attempting to capture these areas for the purposes of expanded and extended organizing -- into workplaces, into neighborhoods, into schools, etc. More to the point, we don't see an occupation movement initiating, supporting and linking together these networks of occupations for the purposes of continued extension into places where they are most needed. For example, in Detroit, there are a large number of abandoned houses and buildings within a very short walking distance of the half dozen auto plants still in the city (and I would figure it's similar in some of the suburbs, too). #Occupy participants could take over one of these houses or buildings and use it as a staging area for, first, making contacts in these plants, second, holding meetings with those contacts and, third, coordinating activity between those inside and outside of the plant. Something like this could be done in every city in the U.S., Canada, Britain, etc.

Extension -- turning and looking outward -- is what can revitalize and reshape #Occupy into a movement capable of more than sterile protests and a mass urban camping experience.


If we're going to wage class war and aim for victory, we need our army to take the field and fight like an army, and we need independent credible organs of actual workers' class power to be established in all the working class neighborhoods, workplaces, schools, etc. Waiting for the existing union bosses to bring their tiny organizations to do this job will leave us waiting forever.

Agreed. In fact, trying to bring the union officials into #Occupy to offer some kind of "leadership" is a betrayal of workers' interests. These loyal labor lieutenants would only come on board for one reason: they knew they could turn #Occupy into an auxiliary for their 2012 electioneering. If they knew for certain they could do that, they'd already be there. Oh, wait! They already have ... on the evening of November 17!


Seems to me that we need a much larger, much wider, much deeper and much more governed democratically 'from below' sort of organized working class movement, and this class movement must remain fully independent of the bourgeois system and all its servants. Why would I want to join any 'vanguard party' that wasn't proving its worth and its commitment to the proletariat by exerting itself to build and develop and advance such an independent mass class movement in the real world today? Words are too cheap and the cappies often like to posture populist for a bargain, but workers like me want to to be shown revolutionary proof in deeds like this.

Just remember, it's ugly, unglamorous and often anonymous work to organize. You get very little media "face time". That's why few organizations actually do it. They'd rather be "activists" that get to mug for the cameras and wave their pretty little signs.


Is revolutionary industrial unionism essentially what I'm describing, or is it something else? How does it really get applied, from the beginning, in practice?

If you find yourself nodding at what I've been describing above, then you're definitely thinking and describing revolutionary industrial unionism. One way or another, let's keep talking.

Danielle Ni Dhighe
23rd November 2011, 09:36
Is the the Workers Party in America a De Leonist party?

Martin Blank
23rd November 2011, 19:50
Is the the Workers Party in America a De Leonist party?

Not in the doctrinaire sense, no. We recognize DeLeon's fundamental contribution to communist theory and practice, but we don't base all of our politics on his writings. We are a multi-tendency communist political party.

workersadvocate
23rd November 2011, 20:31
Thank you for the thorough and timely response. I am on phone and work all day so i will reply later.
Basically sounds like what is needed now.

workersadvocate
24th November 2011, 05:20
Just want to say again that I really appreciate Miles taking the time to explain revolutionary industrial unionism and why it is key to the next step forward in the #Occupy movement right now.

Miles, what has been the response from others on the Left to applying such a revolutionary industrial unionism strategy in practice within-- and extending beyond---current Occupy activities and segments of supporters? Are there some other proletarian-based revolutionaries who would at least do some good united front efforts with WPA to extend this movement and the fightback to the masses of the working class? I mean, shouldn't the first question any radicalizing young worker ask any Left group in America today be "what are you doing and trying to do now around Occupy?"

Martin Blank
25th November 2011, 02:05
Miles, what has been the response from others on the Left to applying such a revolutionary industrial unionism strategy in practice within -- and extending beyond -- current Occupy activities and segments of supporters? Are there some other proletarian-based revolutionaries who would at least do some good united front efforts with WPA to extend this movement and the fightback to the masses of the working class?

For the most part, the response has been silence. All the other self-described socialist and communist groups have their approach, from which they don't deviate. I think the LRP's statement and approach is more or less the epitome of how the "left" is approaching #Occupy: a competition to "corner the market" and control the movement through proper management, in the form of an expanded version of their organization.

Someone said to me a long time ago that "a lion is not a big house cat". I think that applies as much to the concept of a mass movement as it does to a mass political (or economic) organization.

We're ready to collaborate with any working people, organized or not, who would be interested in this approach -- in building a national #[email protected] movement. Doesn't matter who, doesn't matter where. A revolutionary united front of class-conscious workers educating, agitating and organizing for workplace occupations and actions that are networked and coordinating with each other is what is needed, and that stands well higher than the doctrinal differences between self-described revolutionaries.


I mean, shouldn't the first question any radicalizing young worker ask any Left group in America today be "what are you doing and trying to do now around Occupy?"

Yes, it should. And the second question should be "has this method ever worked before?"

RedTrackWorker
25th November 2011, 05:13
For the most part, the response has been silence. All the other self-described socialist and communist groups have their approach, from which they don't deviate. I think the LRP's statement and approach is more or less the epitome of how the "left" is approaching #Occupy: a competition to "corner the market" and control the movement through proper management, in the form of an expanded version of their organization.

Really? Superficially our line is similar to what you're saying above: the occupy movement left to its own will not work, it has to move to mass action by the workers and poor. There's nothing in our statement (http://lrp-cofi.org/statements/owsturningpoint_111711.html) on "management" by an expanded version of our organization:

The Wall Street protests need to be transcended by a movement of mass struggles by and for the prime victims of the economic crisis – working-class and poor people, and especially Blacks, Latinos and immigrants. That means marches, strikes and workplace occupations demanding an end to cutbacks, layoffs and foreclosures, to start with, and calling for a major program of public works to provide jobs for all.

If the WPA wants to propose a practical effort in the interests of such a fightback between the WPA and LRP, go ahead--and Miles could then prove in practice if we turn it down or manipulate it in the interests of "management." I don't know what such a thing could be at this second so could not propose it myself. We're focusing on SEIU 32BJ whose commercial building contract is about to expire and very well might be in a very, very tough strike soon, as well as TWU Local 100 who is far less likely to be in a strike soon but does have a contract expiring and whose workplace could play a key role in breaking out of the current logjam.

Martin Blank
25th November 2011, 06:16
Really? Superficially our line is similar to what you're saying above: the occupy movement left to its own will not work, it has to move to mass action by the workers and poor. There's nothing in our statement (http://lrp-cofi.org/statements/owsturningpoint_111711.html) on "management" by an expanded version of our organization:

First, I'm really not into superficial shit. I leave that to others.

Second, I hate to quote Donald Rumsfeld here, but I have to say that absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence. I've read your statement three times now (it's a filthy little habit I have, reading something more than once to make sure I catch everything). And it's not so much what I see as it is what I don't see: I don't see any kind of practical approach to the #Occupy movement that actually involves the movement itself, or a significant part thereof (like the working-class participants in #Occupy nationally). What I do see is a formally correct but abstract denunciation of populism, a boilerplate call for workers' revolution (again, formally correct but abstract), and a list of nine slogans. Of those slogans, five are explicitly economic. From the remaining four ostensibly political slogans, the last three on the list are boilerplate, with the first of the four having no revolutionary content whatsoever.

But here's the thing: Of these four political slogans, only one of them could be considered a concrete slogan to move #Occupy forward: "Build the Revolutionary Party of the Working Class!" This is what I meant when I said it boiled down to a question of "management". Obviously, you consider the LRP to embody as best as is possible under the current conditions the correct political line of march. One can figure from this that you would also argue that the "Revolutionary Party of the Working Class" will have that same line of march -- that it will be, for the most part, the LRP writ large. In effect, and perhaps without being conscious about it, your statement counterposes the LRP to #Occupy.

It's no longer about developing and providing revolutionary political leadership (a program or platform of action for moving forward), but about practical, organizational leadership (as in, who is going to control the direction of the movement -- i.e., management). It's no longer about developing working-class leadership through winning our brothers and sisters to a concrete platform of action that begins from where they stand today and offers a direction forward that workers themselves undertake. Rather, it's about winning followers to an expanding LRP. It's no longer outward and forward looking; it's inward and stagnant.

What it certainly doesn't do is address the movement (or even a section of the movement), except in abstractions (or extremely partial reform demands).

I say all this because I want you to understand where I'm coming from. You are my brother and a fellow worker, so I'd rather we understand each other. We don't have to be Cannonite snipers, looking for an opportunity to launch angular arguments at each other.


If the WPA wants to propose a practical effort in the interests of such a fightback between the WPA and LRP, go ahead--and Miles could then prove in practice if we turn it down or manipulate it in the interests of "management." I don't know what such a thing could be at this second so could not propose it myself. We're focusing on SEIU 32BJ whose commercial building contract is about to expire and very well might be in a very, very tough strike soon, as well as TWU Local 100 who is far less likely to be in a strike soon but does have a contract expiring and whose workplace could play a key role in breaking out of the current logjam.

For the record, what we would propose would be the development of a network of workers involved in the #Occupy movement nationally (and those who might not be involved but would nevertheless be interested in the work), constituted for the purposes of educating, agitating and organizing to build a movement of workplace occupations. To start, it may only be educational effort, but it would have a definite mission. As time goes on, it could expand and develop, but that would be the decision of the workers involved. It would not be a front for any particular organization. It could serve as a non-partisan, non-sectarian rallying point for radicalizing workers, and possibly develop into a de facto school of workers' control and leadership.

If that sounds like something the LRP is interested in working with us on, let us know. The same goes for any person who is reading this. The more workers interested and involved, the better.

RedTrackWorker
25th November 2011, 07:57
it's not so much what I see as it is what I don't see: I don't see any kind of practical approach to the #Occupy movement that actually involves the movement itself, or a significant part thereof (like the working-class participants in #Occupy nationally).
[snip]
What it certainly doesn't do is address the movement (or even a section of the movement), except in abstractions (or extremely partial reform demands).

OK, this clarified your position quite well. Thank you.

I don't know if you're expecting the document to be something it isn't--or expecting the LRP to be something it isn't. What I mean is this: it's a political statement. You say there's no slogan for the Occupy movement itself, but the headline is "For a Strategy of Mass Action by the Working Class and Poor!" I don't know how arguing for a such a strategic shift is counterposing the LRP to OWS.

Let's dig deeper--other than that, you're right there's not tactical advice, plan of action, addressed to worker elements in OWS or what have you. Our goal was to start a political conversation because OWS was at a turning point (as you agree with) and a decisive shift toward the working class was necessary (as you agree with)--and we did not think--given our resources--we could accomplish that shift by contributing to tactical discussions but by putting the big picture question out there for others to think about and apply based on their situation. I see you here agree with the big question question at least to some extent, so let me put it this way: who else argued for such a strategic orientation?

The vast majority of the socialist left argued of course for expanding OWS--more this, more that--but I saw no one else (until your post) warning that it's at a critical turning point and the only way forward is for a strategy based on mass action of the workers and poor. Without that strategic shift--that political focus--tactics, plans of actions, etc. .... what are they worth?

Does it still seem to you that focusing on the overarching strategic question without pretending we have the tactical answers at this moment is the same as saying "Build the LRP to manage the struggle"?

Rainsborough
25th November 2011, 16:08
Originally Posted by Miles http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2305880#post2305880)
The same goes for any person who is reading this. The more workers interested and involved, the better.

Is this purely an American thing, or can ideas spread across the Atlantic?

Martin Blank
26th November 2011, 01:20
I don't know if you're expecting the document to be something it isn't--or expecting the LRP to be something it isn't. What I mean is this: it's a political statement. You say there's no slogan for the Occupy movement itself, but the headline is "For a Strategy of Mass Action by the Working Class and Poor!" I don't know how arguing for a such a strategic shift is counterposing the LRP to OWS.

I can see what you're getting at, and I can appreciate how you're seeing things. I think the problem is what workers in #Occupy (who are looking for solutions for moving forward) are going to take away from the statement. Politically speaking, the statement starts on a strong and upbeat note, but begins to unravel as it continues. By the time you reach the slogans, it feels like you were phoning it in, if you catch my drift. The dynamism you were hoping for became lost in formulations that reek of unthinking overuse -- i.e., boilerplate. What this does is compel the reader to look for something (anything!) that is concrete. The message gets distorted in the mind of the reader, as s/he searches for a solution amid the critiques and analysis.


Let's dig deeper--other than that, you're right there's not tactical advice, plan of action, addressed to worker elements in OWS or what have you. Our goal was to start a political conversation because OWS was at a turning point (as you agree with) and a decisive shift toward the working class was necessary (as you agree with)--and we did not think--given our resources--we could accomplish that shift by contributing to tactical discussions but by putting the big picture question out there for others to think about and apply based on their situation.

Starting a political discussion on the tasks and obstacles facing the #Occupy movement is important. I suppose that, given that our intervention into the movement included from the beginning the initiation of a political discussion (see "For a Workers' Occupation Movement! (http://www.workers-party.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=209:for-a-workers-occupation-movement&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=53)" and the articles (http://www.workers-party.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=212:what-next&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=53) from our Special Occupation Edition of Working People's Advocate (http://www.workers-party.com/wpa/wpa20111101.pdf)), we're feeling that it's necessary to continue to the next step. But I also see something here that highlights the differences in approach.

You write: "we did not think--given our resources--we could accomplish that shift by contributing to tactical discussions but by putting the big picture question out there for others to think about and apply based on their situation."

You see yourselves as the necessary catalyst for "accomplish[ing] that shift" in strategy. We hold no illusions in ourselves that way. From our perspective, the workers themselves are the ones who accomplish the transformation of #Occupy from a plaything for petty-bourgeois democrats to a vehicle for revolutionary workers' action. We readily concede practical leadership to those sections of the working class who are in motion, while at the same time working alongside them (proving ourselves, winning their trust, gaining their respect), and offering political direction and guidance. Our experience has shown that this method generates a sense of "ownership" (for lack of a better term) and empowerment among our brothers and sisters involved in the activity. It's no longer a situation where we're The Man and they're just listening; it becomes their movement, and they take greater responsibility for it. They learn to become leaders in their own right, through a combination of trial-and-error and comradely guidance.

Even if the activity winds up being a failure, the lessons that our brothers and sisters learn stick with them. The realization of their own power and capability never leaves their minds, and it fuels their future actions.


I see you here agree with the big question question at least to some extent, so let me put it this way: who else argued for such a strategic orientation?

If the "big question" is the need for a worker-led and worker-centered (politically and organizationally) mass occupation movement, then we certainly agree. Indeed, that is what we've been advocating from the beginning.


The vast majority of the socialist left argued of course for expanding OWS--more this, more that--but I saw no one else (until your post) warning that it's at a critical turning point and the only way forward is for a strategy based on mass action of the workers and poor. Without that strategic shift--that political focus--tactics, plans of actions, etc. .... what are they worth?

I would say that they help to clarify exactly what it means to have a "Strategy of Mass Action by the Working Class and Poor". It provides concrete points to consider while workers themselves enact that strategic shift. In the abstract, one can expect that most workers would agree with having a "strategy of mass action" of the type you and I are both advocating. But the question then arises: What the hell would it look like? What would it mean? How would we put it into practice? What steps need to be taken to make this idea a reality?

It seems that, if anything, we're working the same concept from different ends. You are working on opening the discussion in areas where it has not yet started, and we are working on furthering and concretizing the discussion in areas where it has already started. I'm cool with that, and I hope we can better coordinate as we work our way toward each other.


Does it still seem to you that focusing on the overarching strategic question without pretending we have the tactical answers at this moment is the same as saying "Build the LRP to manage the struggle"?

Like I said above, I think a lot of it is more perception and what one takes away from the statement than any kind of conscious effort. So, with that said, I'll gladly retract my comment about the LRP wanting to "manage the struggle" and apologize for jumping to an incorrect conclusion. At the same time, I would suggest being more up-front about your intentions; if a statement is meant to initiate a discussion, there is no harm or shame in saying so outright and phrasing it as such.

Just putting that out there.

Martin Blank
26th November 2011, 01:21
Is this purely an American thing, or can ideas spread across the Atlantic?

I see no reason why such a network cannot be as worldwide as the #Occupy movement itself.

Die Neue Zeit
26th November 2011, 05:16
Comrade, the "ideal" Occupy protest would combine the strike militancy of Occupy Oakland, the civil disobedience of Occupy Wall Street, the programmatic clarify of Occupy Vancouver (http://www.revleft.com/vb/death-occupy-vancouver-t163873/index.html?p=2289916), and the worker professionalism of Occupy London (http://www.revleft.com/vb/occupy-london-accountant-t165135/index.html).

Martin Blank
27th November 2011, 23:45
Starting a political discussion on the tasks and obstacles facing the #Occupy movement is important. I suppose that, given that our intervention into the movement included from the beginning the initiation of a political discussion (see "For a Workers' Occupation Movement! (http://www.workers-party.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=209:for-a-workers-occupation-movement&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=53)" and the articles (http://www.workers-party.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=212:what-next&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=53) from our Special Occupation Edition of Working People's Advocate (http://www.workers-party.com/wpa/wpa20111101.pdf)), we're feeling that it's necessary to continue to the next step.

Since I posted this, our website was severely hacked by anti-communist South Koreans. We have since disposed of these hackers. Nevertheless, the damage they created was widespread. We are currently working on bringing the site back up, but it might be a few more days before that is done. In the meantime, I am attaching to this message the PDFs of the leaflet "For a Workers' Occupation Movement!" and the Special Occupation Edition of Working People's Advocate.

workersadvocate
28th November 2011, 16:02
Since I posted this, our website was severely hacked by anti-communist South Koreans. We have since disposed of these hackers. Nevertheless, the damage they created was widespread. We are currently working on bringing the site back up, but it might be a few more days before that is done. In the meantime, I am attaching to this message the PDFs of the leaflet "For a Workers' Occupation Movement!" and the Special Occupation Edition of Working People's Advocate.

I was just about to pm you to find out where your website went.
Sorry for the long delay in writing but this was a busy working weekend.