Poll: 11% of Americans support the US becoming communist, more popular than Congress

[Revy]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/congress-approval-problem-in-one-chart/2011/11/15/gIQAkHmtON_blog.html#excerpt

Even though it's only 11% I see it as a positive result, given the abysmally low amount of votes socialist parties often get*, it shows that while our parties are terribly unpopular, our ideas are not.

*see here:
http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/11/self-identified-socialist-parties-appear-to-be-headed-for-the-second-lowest-presidential-popular-vote-total-since-1888/

[Red Rabbit]

I am the 11%? :p

[Nox]

11%? Really... wtf? I thought it'd be closer to 0.1%

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Chances are those 11% don't even know what communism is;they are probably thinking it is something authoritarian.I imagine that if they learned what it really was the percentage would be even higher.

[rundontwalk]

edit: link is working now

And this is awesome. Thanks for the link.

[Revolutionair]

A total of 5% out of that 11% actually knows what communism is.

[socialistjustin]

Well around 20% said Capitalism needed to be abolished or whatever in a BBC poll a couple of years ago so things are somewhat positive for the left in the US.

I agree that the people probably don't know what communism is and if you said "workers control of the means of production" then the number would be higher.

[Klaatu]

Dumb question: Does this "11%" include Socialists too?

[A Marxist Historian]

Dumb question: Does this "11%" include Socialists too?

They regularly poll about whether Americans think socialism is a good thing, this is an unusual poll.

The usual numbers are about a third of Americans are in favor of socialism, think it's better than capitalism. A majority of registered Democrats, by the way, in the poll last year.

Of course Americans have if anything a *weaker* concept of what socialism is than communism. A lot of them likely are Obama supporters who have been persusaded by Glenn Beck that Obama is a socialist.

-M.H.-

[Ocean Seal]

11%? Really... wtf? I thought it'd be closer to 0.1%
It was one of those 'show how mad you are' polls. Lets be honest the people there were probably kidding. If 11% supported 'communism' the dirtiest word in American vocabulary, we wouldn't be surprised when occupy wall st. started. They among other things said that they supported big banks and BP more than congress. I would take this with a grain of salt (but lots of lulz).

[Misanthrope]

i am the 11%? :p

we are the 11%. Workers revolution now.

[IndependentCitizen]

Yeah, this isn't taking into account how many people participated in the poll...if you had 100 people participate you only need 11 people to vote communist...

[Le Rouge]

We are the 99% 11%!!!!

[TheRed]

Dispite that a large portion is probably misinformed to say even 5% knows what it is and would like to see action is still a very large number of people. I think overall if this statistic is in fact right it shows overwhelming support for leftist cause. Not to mention how many of the other 89% are really informed on what problems capitalism causes?

[chuy]

I bet it's a typo.
Instead of 11% they probably meant 11 people.

[Durutii Column]

Dispite that a large portion is probably misinformed to say even 5% knows what it is and would like to see action is still a very large number of people. I think overall if this statistic is in fact right it shows overwhelming support for leftist cause. Not to mention how many of the other 89% are really informed on what problems capitalism causes?
Reply With Quote I agree. Most probably think that communism is radical social democracy but at least they want to replace capitalism with something on the left. And rev socialism is the only way to do that.

[Durutii Column]

I bet it's a typo.
Instead of 11% they probably meant 11 people.

I bet that you are wrong

[Le Rouge]

This proves we should NOT buy polls.

[RadioRaheem84]

I am sure the 11% polled are people who think communism is some sort of authoritarian system to take control of the economy. In other words, they're looking for a caudillo of sorts. A strong man to "equalize" things.

OR

It could be due to the influx of immigrants, especially Latino, who have a bit more of an idea of what communism is vs. the propagandized American.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ I think it could be both, both Latino and authoritarian. It should be stressed, though, that the political structure is imagined to be caudillismo rather than "totalitarianism." It's still a step forward for American workers, though.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/congress-approval-problem-in-one-chart/2011/11/15/gIQAkHmtON_blog.html#excerpt

Even though it's only 11% I see it as a positive result, given the abysmally low amount of votes socialist parties often get*, it shows that while our parties are terribly unpopular, our ideas are not.

*see here:
http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/11/self-identified-socialist-parties-appear-to-be-headed-for-the-second-lowest-presidential-popular-vote-total-since-1888/

I don't know whether this is serious or a light-hearted political joke, but I think any re-emerging American left should have a posthumous personality cult of both Daniel DeLeon and Eugene Debs, side by side, a la Lassalle. ;)

[socialistjustin]

Why are we so surprised by these results? There are other polls like the BBC poll which has around 20% who want to end capitalism. Our ideas aren't that unpopular really.

[NewLeft]

Communism? You mean sharing? Sharing is good, we learned that in kindergarden.

The threat of 'revolution' is getting greater, expect a sudden support for reform from the ruling class in years to come.

[A Marxist Historian]

Communism? You mean sharing? Sharing is good, we learned that in kindergarden.

The threat of 'revolution' is getting greater, expect a sudden support for reform from the ruling class in years to come.

Except they can't afford reforms right now, the economy is in big big trouble. And the only way they can figure out how to avoid a total economic collapse is to take it out of the hides of the workers.

So no, there will be no reforms for years to come, unless the economy magically somehow gets a lot better. And not too many people think that it will, and least of all the capitalists. Which is why stock prices are going down. They are expressing their pessimism where it counts.

You can expect more police, more cops, more prisons, and more repression in the years to come.

-M.H.-

[Black_Rose]

So no, there will be no reforms for years to come, unless the economy magically somehow gets a lot better. And not too many people think that it will, and least of all the capitalists. Which is why stock prices are going down. They are expressing their pessimism where it counts.

You can expect more police, more cops, more prisons, and more repression in the years to come.

-M.H.-

This means our window of opportunity is now, although it is a long shot. I have some hope, however minute, that the police/cops, would simply disobey the elite and rebel.

We just have to get our message across. We don't even need to talk about communism/socialism to facilitate the revolution; we just need to propagate the meme that the wealthy and political elite are social/economic parasites. If the police believe that about the elites, then law enforcement, at the very least, would lackadaisically enforce the whims of the elite and would be susceptible to corruption.

Unfortunately, we know how reactionary the American working class can be; for instance, look at the construction workers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Hat_Riot) during the Vietnam War protests. As we have seen, it is likely that some police would use their authority against progressives, the poor, and minorities.

[Belleraphone]

I think it's like Raheem said, a lot of these have to be latino. These might be working class people who aren't politically active and don't vote because they think it's pointless, but they do have an opinion. 11 percent is still really high though, isn't that around the number of Bachmann supporters? Why don't we have a communist Bachmann? That would be badass.

[Jose Gracchus]

Radio n DNZ:

Yeah, all us brownies come with a microchip in the cerebrum for following fancy dudes on horseback who'll steal the hacendado's land...oh wait. You guys sound like the worst of white liberals speculating on the Arab or Hispanic or Asian 'mind', like some alien hive. Just no, stop. Take my word for it. I guarantee you Hispanic migrants aren't above and beyond support for what is called "communism", and more politically more conscious of it than any other immigrant group.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2237/socialism.gif

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Radio n DNZ:

Yeah, all us brownies come with a microchip in the cerebrum for following fancy dudes on horseback who'll steal the hacendado's land...oh wait. You guys sound like the worst of white liberals speculating on the Arab or Hispanic or Asian 'mind', like some alien hive. Just no, stop. Take my word for it. I guarantee you Hispanic migrants aren't above and beyond support for what is called "communism", and more politically more conscious of it than any other immigrant group.

:lol: Don't destroy their fantasies brother.

A lot of the New Leftovers have been running on nothing but joints and liberal white guilt for the last 3 decades.

They don't even realize how close to racism their approach actually is.

[Durutii Column]

17% of Republicans like socialism and 20% of conservatives.:confused:

[NewLeft]

17% of Republicans like socialism and 20% of conservatives.:confused:

Infiltration..

[A Marxist Historian]

This means our window of opportunity is now, although it is a long shot. I have some hope, however minute, that the police/cops, would simply disobey the elite and rebel.

We just have to get our message across. We don't even need to talk about communism/socialism to facilitate the revolution; we just need to propagate the meme that the wealthy and political elite are social/economic parasites. If the police believe that about the elites, then law enforcement, at the very least, would lackadaisically enforce the whims of the elite and would be susceptible to corruption.

Unfortunately, we know how reactionary the American working class can be; for instance, look at the construction workers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Hat_Riot) during the Vietnam War protests. As we have seen, it is likely that some police would use their authority against progressives, the poor, and minorities.

Let us hope that if the police rebel that they are crushed. Police rebellions would be to impose a police state. Like when the New York cops staged a mass rally vs. Dinkins, the only black mayor New York has ever had, because they thought he wasn't repressing his fellow black people brutally enough. Brandishing their guns at the rally. In Oakland, the Oakland cops have been repeatedly denouncing Quan for being too soft on Occupy Oakland and not letting them crack heads. So they are taking their anger out on college students at Berkeley and UC Davis.

The construction worker "hardhat" protests during the Vietnam War were mounted by a conspiracy between Nixon and some extremely right wing union leaders, and were a lot smaller than the media liked to claim. The reason Nixon and the Watergate boys whomped this up was because major unions like the auto workers and the Teamsters were coming out against the war.

Jimmy Hoffa, America's most powerful union leader ever, coming out against the war really put a scare into the government. Hoffa was perfectly capable of calling the Teamsters out on strike against the war, he was seriously pissed with the US government's continual investigations of his corruption and liked to feel his oats and throw his power around. And the ranks would have been delighted, Teamsters back then were eager to strike for just about anything. The Kent State students were shot down by National Guardsmen who had just gotten back from being humiliated by wildcatting Teamsters who were a lot tougher to deal with than college students.

So they whomped up the "hardhat" protests, and Jimmy Hoffa died under mysterious circumstances. I have no doubt at all that the FBI got its friends in the Mafia to do the deed.

Back then union members were paid pretty good in America and often really did think of themselves as members of "the middle class." Not any more! There's a reason why unions have been jumping on the Occupy Wall Street bandwagon. They have their backs to the wall and are desperate.

-M.H.-

[Catmatic Leftist]

17% of Republicans like socialism and 20% of conservatives.:confused:


Infiltration..

Probably "National Socialists" and racist White Nationalists/Facists.

[RadioRaheem84]

Radio n DNZ:

Yeah, all us brownies come with a microchip in the cerebrum for following fancy dudes on horseback who'll steal the hacendado's land...oh wait. You guys sound like the worst of white liberals speculating on the Arab or Hispanic or Asian 'mind', like some alien hive. Just no, stop. Take my word for it. I guarantee you Hispanic migrants aren't above and beyond support for what is called "communism", and more politically more conscious of it than any other immigrant group.

I'm Hispanic and feel that my immigrant family from Chile knows more about what Communism and Socialism really is than an average American.

What is so controversial about this? My family is majority Chilean but I also have family from the Dominican Republic, El Salvador and Cuba.

When we all get together at the dinner table I feel like I can talk to them about socialism and communism in a manner in which they have a better grasp of it then thinking it's akin to Fascism or new world order oligarchy like most Americans think.

I am going out with an American white woman and I feel like their family hasn't the slightest foundation as to what communism and socialism are because of the rampant propaganda in the US. Every single time I talk about the social order taking more and more of our civil liberties away, his first thought and response is that it's Communism. I don't even know where to even begin to have a conservation about it with him, his view of it is so skewered.

That's where I was coming from. That a lot of immigrants, including Latinos, Europeans, Chinese, etc. generally (from my experience talking to them) have a much broader idea of what socialism is. I only guessed that more Latinos were included in the poll because of the numbers in this country.

Is the label of racism just tossed out here like t-shirts at a NASCAR rally or what?

[Jose Gracchus]

Yeah people in Chile. The most important political event in people's living memory is Pinochet's coup against an elected 'Marxist', Allende. I'm not sure why you think that can be extrapolated to Mexican campesinos who lost their ejido rights on pain of Mexico's debts. I mean shit, you think Guatemalans know communism, an ethnic-cleaning far-right general leads polls as a populist candidate there. Sure white suburban Americans are uniquely clueless, but I don't think Latino immigrants can be claded into a group where you can make any easy generalizations about their political consciousness.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Radio n DNZ:

Yeah, all us brownies come with a microchip in the cerebrum for following fancy dudes on horseback who'll steal the hacendado's land...oh wait. You guys sound like the worst of white liberals speculating on the Arab or Hispanic or Asian 'mind', like some alien hive. Just no, stop. Take my word for it.

I was merely responding to comrade RadioRaheem's suggestion on authoritarianism, clarifying some differences.

I'm sure he'll stand corrected, so I'll do the same.


I guarantee you Hispanic migrants aren't above and beyond support for what is called "communism", and more politically more conscious of it than any other immigrant group.

Like I said, that's positive.

What I meant with regards to DeLeon and Debs "American heroism" was a suggestion for further popularization.


:lol: Don't destroy their fantasies brother. A lot of the New Leftovers have been running on nothing but joints and liberal white guilt for the last 3 decades.

They don't even realize how close to racism their approach actually is.

I'm not a New Leftover. :glare:

[RadioRaheem84]

Yeah people in Chile. The most important political event in people's living memory is Pinochet's coup against an elected 'Marxist', Allende. I'm not sure why you think that can be extrapolated to Mexican campesinos who lost their ejido rights on pain of Mexico's debts. I mean shit, you think Guatemalans know communism, an ethnic-cleaning far-right general leads polls as a populist candidate there. Sure white suburban Americans are uniquely clueless, but I don't think Latino immigrants can be claded into a group where you can make any easy generalizations about their political consciousness.

I don't think it was an easy generalization to make. I figured that maybe the ravages of living under right wing regimes would've exposed people in Latin America to an alternative that was taken seriously; namely socialists. And that their interactions with them were a little less superficial than linking them to a right wing fascist government like they do here. The clear contrast between the two opposing forces is much more evident there than what is portrayed here.

I thought this played into the fact that Latinos are gaining numbers here and that many brought this consideration over into the poll. You are forgetting that it was only 11% that looked favorable upon it.

I am sure there were Latinos who looked down upon it too.

[RadioRaheem84]

I'm not a New Leftover. http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/glare.gif

What's that?

[Os Cangaceiros]

That's where I was coming from. That a lot of immigrants, including Latinos, Europeans, Chinese, etc. generally (from my experience talking to them) have a much broader idea of what socialism is.

Actually most of their views on what socialism is are just as wrong as any else's. AKA "such-and-such regime I/my parents lived under represented the pure socialist ethos, therefore socialism is good/bad".

There was a poll measuring capitalism's "approval rating" posted on here a while back, recording multiple countries, and the poll concluded that, while capitalism's numbers are taking a hit in Europe and the USA, they're rising in China. It's because there are a lot of youth coming of age in China, they realize that the system they live under totally blows, but they associate that system with socialism.

[RadioRaheem84]

Actually most of their views on what socialism is are just as wrong as any else's. AKA "such-and-such regime I/my parents lived under represented the pure socialist ethos, therefore socialism is good/bad".

There was a poll measuring capitalism's "approval rating" posted on here a while back, recording multiple countries, and the poll concluded that, while capitalism's numbers are taking a hit in Europe and the USA, they're rising in China. It's because there are a lot of youth coming of age in China, they realize that the system they live under totally blows, but they associate that system with socialism.

I am sure this is true, but I figured that living under a right wing regime and having the other alternative usually be a socialist one, would've showed a polar contrast of a difference in the two.

In the States, we don't have that. People usually equate the two.

About China, the same can be said for what ever the youth think Cuba is.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

There's no way 11% of Americans even know what Communism is. Still a good number though.

I certainly don't see 11% of Congressmen from a socialist party, and that speaks wonders about the terrible electoral system of the US, combined with massive plutocracy.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

There was a poll measuring capitalism's "approval rating" posted on here a while back, recording multiple countries, and the poll concluded that, while capitalism's numbers are taking a hit in Europe and the USA, they're rising in China. It's because there are a lot of youth coming of age in China, they realize that the system they live under totally blows, but they associate that system with socialism.

:confused:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1435/capitalistpopularity.gif

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Also:

"We often react to party labels rather than to the actual proposals which are put before us. This was demonstrated very clearly in a study in which farmers and workers in the United States were interviewed with respect to their voting intentions, their party preferences, and their approval or disapproval of various lines of action. They were found to disapprove of Socialist and Communist parties and candidates, and yet approve of the measures proposed by these parties rather more than those proposed by their more conservative opponents. When it is a question of election, therefore, these people would have voted against the measures which they actually favoured because of their stereotyped view of Socialism." -H.J. Eysenck, Uses and Abuses of Psychology, pp 249. (1967)

[Os Cangaceiros]

I am sure this is true, but I figured that living under a right wing regime and having the other alternative usually be a socialist one, would've showed a polar contrast of a difference in the two.

That doesn't really mean that those people have an especially accurate view of what socialism or communism really is, though.


About China, the same can be said for what ever the youth think Cuba is.

I agree.

[Os Cangaceiros]

:confused:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1435/capitalistpopularity.gif

Yep, that's the one I was thinking of. It's on the uptick with Germany.

[Black_Rose]

:confused:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1435/capitalistpopularity.gif

It seems like the graph is from The Economist. Do you have a link to the original article.

[RadioRaheem84]

That doesn't really mean that those people have an especially accurate view of what socialism or communism really is, though.

I didn't mean accurate but a more broad view of it.

[A Marxist Historian]

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2237/socialism.gif

You always have to check the wording on these things. "Socialism" is in quotes, that's the key here.

Less significant than I thought. Most people reading this, seeing the quote marks, are thinking not of socialism, but of the kind of social welfare measures referred to as "socialistic." Not just a matter of people being confused by Glenn Beck. A pretty accurate reflection of the thinking of the average American, and nothing surprising about it at all.

Take away the quote marks, and I'm sure the numbers would be different.

-M.H.-

[Inner Peace]

mah even if there were 99.9% socialists in USA,Their Glories Capitalistic system would be still standing,1% if USA people have money as 40% of people put together,how is this fer. Rich people control us there is nothing that we can do about is.

[A Marxist Historian]

Actually most of their views on what socialism is are just as wrong as any else's. AKA "such-and-such regime I/my parents lived under represented the pure socialist ethos, therefore socialism is good/bad".

There was a poll measuring capitalism's "approval rating" posted on here a while back, recording multiple countries, and the poll concluded that, while capitalism's numbers are taking a hit in Europe and the USA, they're rising in China. It's because there are a lot of youth coming of age in China, they realize that the system they live under totally blows, but they associate that system with socialism.

A misread.

China and Germany are the major countries which are doing best in the current situation, so people there are much less inclined to blame economic disaster on free market capitalism than elsewhere.

And, judging by the Gallup Polls on popularity of governments, the Chinese government is currently the most popular in the world, by a large margin. So this definitely doesn't reflect youth rebellion. Due of course to the CCP's pro free market policies working so comparatively well economically, compared to just about anyplace else.

Actually, what it reflects is the rise of the Chinese capitalist class, whose power is growing. The capitalists want to kick over the traces and turn China once and for all into one giant sweatshop, and call it "free market democracy." Gallup polls are usually conducted over landline telephones. And China just isn't America or Western Europe, it's still basically a Third World country. If you have a landline, you are probably not a worker, but in the rising middle and outright capitalist classes. And youth are very into cell phones of course.

Poll the workers, and both the Chinese government and free market policies would be less popular.

-M.H.-