absolute majority for conservatives in Spanish elections

[PhoenixAsh]

In the Spanish elections the exit polls show the conservative PP (partido popular) has gained the absolute majority in parliament. PP runs on a platform of lowering taxes for corporations and wealthy Spaniards. It proposes extreme budget cuts and austerity measures. They gained +30 seats

Seeing as they appear to have the absolye majority...they will be unopposed to these plans.

The social democrats lost heavilly....as it stands now they lost over 45 seats.

CiU (Catalonian Nationalists) are the third party with 15 seats.



FUCK.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Oh well. They'll learn that, like social democracy, conservative free market principles are shit, and capitalism will fail them again.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Shit's bound to get worse before it gets better. Just Sayin'

[Zostrianos]

What's wrong with people nowadays? They're worried about jobs and poverty, so they elect a right wing party? Are you fuckin kidding me?

[ВАЛТЕР]

What's wrong with people nowadays? They're worried about jobs and poverty, so they elect a right wing party? Are you fuckin kidding me?


In times of crisis people tend to turn towards reactionary politics. Especially nationalism, and other such nonsense.

[Ocean Seal]

FUCK.
The good thing is that elections don't mean shit anyway. I think its the fact that the Spanish aren't even going to the polls anymore, that is a far more valuable sentiment than electing social democrats.

[Grigori]

How divided is the spanish populace? Spain essentially has a two party system that is semi-descended from the politics of the civil war. Is there a chance that anarchist catalona will rise again?

[socialistjustin]

The good thing is that elections don't mean shit anyway. I think its the fact that the Spanish aren't even going to the polls anymore, that is a far more valuable sentiment than electing social democrats.

How bad is the turnout? Is it so bad that revolutionary politics can gain a foothold in Spain? For a reactionary party to gain an absolute majority in Parliament, I'm guessing it's pretty bad.

[Yuppie Grinder]

The auesterity measures combined with the extremely high unemployment rates will hopefully birth some class conciousness.

[ВАЛТЕР]

The auesterity measures combined with the extremely high unemployment rates will hopefully birth some class conciousness.


Yeah, but we can only really hope. Because it is just as likely a nationalist movement comes out of such a situation as well. Tough times often result in reactionary politics, sometimes even more often than they result in progressive leftist movements.

[the last donut of the night]

how high's the voter turnout in spain?

[Yuppie Grinder]

Yeah, but we can only really hope. Because it is just as likely a nationalist movement comes out of such a situation as well. Tough times often result in reactionary politics, sometimes even more often than they result in progressive leftist movements.
True, but to class struggle often breeds class conciousness if the right orgnizations and ideas are out there. A resurgence in radical nationalism as well as radical leftism in western Europe may come with the fall of social-democratic well fare states.

[Per Levy]

how high's the voter turnout in spain?


Die Wahlbeteiligung lag offiziell bei 71,5 Prozent

got that from a german news site, voters turnout is around 71,5%

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Yay, revolution...

[ВАЛТЕР]

Reactionary politics in Spain = Revolutionary action = Civil war = International brigades!

So it begins... :cool:

[Per Levy]

Reactionary politics in Spain = Revolutionary action = Civil war = International brigades!

So it begins... :cool:

the social dems allready made a lot of reactionary politics with super high unemployment and there still was no revolutionary action. it has to be seen what will come out of this. one thing is for sure, the new goverment will continue the antiworker politics of the current goverment.

[Die Rote Fahne]

The Social Dems didn't deliver, so the option is to go the other way. This is no surprise. It happens everywhere. The polar opposite (almost) is chosen to go into government, fuck shit up some more, and then they can guiltlessly elect the social dems again. It will continue to happen, until it is realized that it isn't the party, but the system which causes the problems.

[MarxSchmarx]

The Social Dems didn't deliver, so the option is to go the other way. This is no surprise. It happens everywhere. The polar opposite (almost) is chosen to go into government, fuck shit up some more, and then they can guiltlessly elect the social dems again. It will continue to happen, until it is realized that it isn't the party, but the system which causes the problems.

I think this is broadly correct, but the problem is that SPain, unlike the Anglo-Saxon countries has a relatively more respectable alternative in the form of the IU. They maintained 11 seats and built on their strength from earlier but it's hardly enough. Arguably something like this dynamic worked in Canada where the NDP overtook the liberals as the chief opposition, although there the economy is not as in as much trouble as in spain.

So the question becomes, why do people turn the rightwing alternative instead of the leftwing alternative when they have the chance? In America or Britain, where the only alternative to the social democrats/liberals is the conservatives or someother lame group like lib dems or perot, I can see how reactions against the ruling coalition mean gains for the default opponent, even if they are further to the right, because people have no other protest vehicle at the polls. But why do people not embrace something further to the left when they have viable alternatives?

[Zostrianos]

The same thing happened in Portugal, where they voted out the socialists (who were pretty bad, socialists only in name, center right at best), and voted in the most right wing party of all of them, who even before they were voted in, had said that they would continue privatizing everything and depriving people of benefits. Screwed up logic, it's like "we have to get rid of whoever's in power. I don't care who we replace him with, we gotta get rid of him". So they voted for a party that's easily 3 times worse :thumbdown:
Hopefully they'll do so much damage that the people will have enough, and a revolution will take place, that's the only good side I can see to this.

[Veovis]

"We don't like these austerity cuts, so let's give an absolute majority to the political party that wants to make even more drastic cuts!"

I'll never get it. I can understand punishing the PSOE for taking unpopular measures, but this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

ETA: Adiós to gay marriage in Spain. :(

[Marxaveli]

What's wrong with people nowadays? They're worried about jobs and poverty, so they elect a right wing party? Are you fuckin kidding me?

False consciousness and Stockholm Syndrome are horrible disorders to suffer from. Sadly, it is a very contagious virus.

[Marxaveli]

The Social Dems didn't deliver, so the option is to go the other way. This is no surprise. It happens everywhere. The polar opposite (almost) is chosen to go into government, fuck shit up some more, and then they can guiltlessly elect the social dems again. It will continue to happen, until it is realized that it isn't the party, but the system which causes the problems.

Well said. We had the same problem here in 2010, Obama and the Dems were not getting enough done, so the citizens punished Congress by voting in the Tea Baggers, only to get the same results. Most Americans are apathetic about politics for the most part, and do not understand how our system works, much less how bad capitalism is. A common phrase you will hear is "divided government is good, because it forces both parties to compromise".....wrong, they do NOT compromise. It creates political gridlock, and then nothing gets done, and when it does, it is half-assed...American politics is a pure face palm train wreck.

[Zostrianos]

What's most offensive is that when they make cuts, in typical capitalist fashion they do it to those who will suffer the most, the poor and needy. They could easily solve all those crises if they made cuts to the politicians' salaries (which are insanely exorbitant), and taxed the rich more; politicians would still be rich and well off with half the money they make now. But no, the Right has to protect its interests as usual, so they screw those who can't fight back and say it's necessary...bastards

[Veovis]

The good news is, a popular uprising should be right around the corner. If Asturias 1934 is any indication, Spain knows how to rock a workers' revolt.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I think this is broadly correct, but the problem is that SPain, unlike the Anglo-Saxon countries has a relatively more respectable alternative in the form of the IU. They maintained 11 seats and built on their strength from earlier but it's hardly enough. Arguably something like this dynamic worked in Canada where the NDP overtook the liberals as the chief opposition, although there the economy is not as in as much trouble as in spain.

So the question becomes, why do people turn the rightwing alternative instead of the leftwing alternative when they have the chance? In America or Britain, where the only alternative to the social democrats/liberals is the conservatives or someother lame group like lib dems or perot, I can see how reactions against the ruling coalition mean gains for the default opponent, even if they are further to the right, because people have no other protest vehicle at the polls. But why do people not embrace something further to the left when they have viable alternatives?

Comrade, a downward spike is what makes masses of people turn to right-wing radicalism. Lengthy sputtering after the downward spike and growing economic disparities during that sputtering is what makes masses of people turn to left-wing radicalism.

The Long Depression spawned worker-class movements, while the Great Depression fueled fascist momentum.

[Zostrianos]

I'll never get it. I can understand punishing the PSOE for taking unpopular measures, but this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Or like committing suicide out of fear of death :thumbdown:

[piet11111]

The official "socialist" left has been completely discredited and now the right gets its chance to show they are worse.

After this the radical left will have its moment to shine if they are ready for it.

[Jose Gracchus]

Comrade, a downward spike is what makes masses of people turn to right-wing radicalism. Lengthy sputtering after the downward spike and growing economic disparities during that sputtering is what makes masses of people turn to left-wing radicalism.

An interesting model. Tested it against other recessionary periods?


The Long Depression spawned worker-class movements, while the Great Depression fueled fascist momentum.

What about the Popular Front in France though, and the de facto popular front of the New Deal in the U.S.?

And what of more revolutionary fervor in Vietnam, and Spain?

[Die Neue Zeit]

An interesting model. Tested it against other recessionary periods?

I deliberately ignored the more typical recessionary periods (boom-bust cycles and all) when I made my statement above.


What about the Popular Front in France though, and the de facto popular front of the New Deal in the U.S.?

Um, corporatism all the same?

Perhaps I should have rephrased my term "right-wing radicalism" to "corporatist radicalism."


And what of more revolutionary fervor in Vietnam, and Spain?

Exceptions to the rule? Just look at the number of neoliberal "social-democratic" governments swept aside by this downturn. That's not just one country.

[Jose Gracchus]

Why are all you socialists legitimizing bourgeois electoral games? Do you really think an election one-way-or-another really spells out a conscious 'decision' by working-masses, to choose one management of exploitation over another?

Not to mention its totally idle speculation without a lot more voter data than raw counts. What was turnout? I wonder if it is like in the U.S., when the far-right wins elections not so much by turnout of their constituency but through the discouraging and the lack of turnout by any other constituency.

[Kotze]

"We don't like these austerity cuts, so let's give an absolute majority to the political party that wants to make even more drastic cuts!"The PP did not get a majority of the votes (http://www.publico.es/especial/elecciones-generales/2011/resultados/resultados.php).

[Thirsty Crow]

Not to mention its totally idle speculation without a lot more voter data than raw counts. What was turnout? I wonder if it is like in the U.S., when the far-right wins elections not so much by turnout of their constituency but through the discouraging and the lack of turnout by any other constituency.
Turnout was 71.5%, according to a German source provided by peer levy (scroll back to page one).
I don't think that this represents a poor turnout, not at all, though I'm not familiar with the electoral history of Spain. What I do know is that these 29% cannot be taken to imply any meaningful opposition towards the poltiics of austerity. Esentially, it all boils down to the actions undertaken by the workers and indignados of Spain once the new conservative government begins to enact some of its plans.

[S.Artesian]

You have to balance that vote against all the action going down in the streets, which is hardly supportive of the conservative parties.

Voting is always going to be more conservative than the actual conflict, for the very fact that people who are vested in the status quo will vote as a way to arm their side of the conflict.

[Hit The North]

Re. voter turnout, 71.5 is down on 2008's turnout which was 76.03. You can find some data here (http://www.idea.int/vt/country_view.cfm?id=72).

[Veovis]

The PP did not get a majority of the votes (http://www.publico.es/especial/elecciones-generales/2011/resultados/resultados.php).

LOL, I love how CiU (Catalan conservatives) get 16 seats with 1.1 million votes, yet United Left only gets 11 seats with nearly 1.7 million. What kind of fucked-up electoral system is that?

[Revy]

On the other hand, the United Left (a more genuine socialist party) got a lot more votes than last time.

[A Marxist Historian]

What's wrong with people nowadays? They're worried about jobs and poverty, so they elect a right wing party? Are you fuckin kidding me?

But how many voted, and how many stayed home?

In fact, the "indignados" movement, which was directed against the cuts carried out by a so-called "left wing" socialist government, led directly to this electoral result.

Which is not necessarily a totally bad thing, as you didn't have any really revolutionary working class parties running anyway, and most if not all of the radical parties were engaged in little mini Popular Fronts with liberal bourgeois types, and didn't express any working class political independence.

This does demonstrate however just how useless the "antipolitics" attitude of the Indignados is. And of course that's your basic political matrix for OWS, so we here had better pay attention.

OWS is divided more or less between those who want to support the Demos as a lesser evil, and those who want to follow the Spanish model and just don't vote. A better idea, but, as Spain illustrates, only somewhat better.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

I think this is broadly correct, but the problem is that SPain, unlike the Anglo-Saxon countries has a relatively more respectable alternative in the form of the IU. They maintained 11 seats and built on their strength from earlier but it's hardly enough. Arguably something like this dynamic worked in Canada where the NDP overtook the liberals as the chief opposition, although there the economy is not as in as much trouble as in spain.

So the question becomes, why do people turn the rightwing alternative instead of the leftwing alternative when they have the chance? In America or Britain, where the only alternative to the social democrats/liberals is the conservatives or someother lame group like lib dems or perot, I can see how reactions against the ruling coalition mean gains for the default opponent, even if they are further to the right, because people have no other protest vehicle at the polls. But why do people not embrace something further to the left when they have viable alternatives?

Why didn't they turn to the IU? I saw some of their stuff a few months ago.

According to my memory, which is not perfect so I'd be glad to hear more information, they were basically simply campaigning against the cuts, with no better explanation of how to balance the budget other than "tax the rich." Well, Europe is not the US, people have been there and done that, and voters know that that's pretty much a con job.

The only solution is socialism, the only way you get it is revolution, and Spanish left wing socialists were afraid to say that. I don't even think they called for repudiating the debt, ridiculously proposing that it should be "renegotiated." As if!

So why would anybody bother to vote for them, except as a useless protest? At least the reactionaries claim to have some serious answers to the economic crisis, so a lot of voters were willing to give them a shot.

-M.H.-

[Die Rote Fahne]

LOL, I love how CiU (Catalan conservatives) get 16 seats with 1.1 million votes, yet United Left only gets 11 seats with nearly 1.7 million. What kind of fucked-up electoral system is that?

One not based on proportional representation...like Canada.

Conservatives receive 34% of the vote and receive a majority government.

[Klaatu]

This is more evidence that you can fool most of the people all of the time.

[Grigori]

How does the board feel about Spanish Devolution?

[A Marxist Historian]

This is more evidence that you can fool most of the people all of the time.

Not at all. See my other posting. In a desperate situation, people will prefer a bad alternative to no alternative whatsoever, and there were no serious left wing alternatives available at the voting booth.

The problem is not that the Spanish people are fools, it is that the Spanish leftists are fools.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

How does the board feel about Spanish Devolution?

I don't know how the rest of the board feels, but I feel that it is right now a distraction from more important issues.

If the Catalans or the Basques want autonomy, or even independence, fine. If for no other reason than that would take it off the agenda and make it easier for people to pay attention to more important issues.

-M.H.-

[Kombouto]

Hi everybody, I don't come here very often and I'm still learning about the forum, but I think I can contribute to this thread. Just some points you can find interesting:

1. Actually, it's not that the PP has won the elections (its votes have gone from 40% to 44%), but PSOE has lost them (from 43% in 2008 to 28% this Sunday).

2. People has punished PSOE for its neoliberal policies. Sadly, only a minority of its former voters have chosen communist-led IU (3rd party in votes, 4th in seats). Spanish media are strongly balanced to the right (Franco's inheritance), and IU is the worst affected.

3. Spanish electoral law is very unfair. It was imposed by Francoist "parliament" for the 1977 elections (its objective: diminish the number of communist seats), and succesive governments have kept it, as it favours big parties.

4. As it happens in all European countries, as social-democrats or labour turn to neoliberal policies, many people turn to far-right parties. They're still a minority in Spain (unless in Catalonia, where islamophobic PxC is quite strong), but they're growing relentlessly at local level.

5. "Indignados" movement doesn't advocate for abstention; their slogan is "we are apartisan, not apolitical".

6. In my opinion, Spain has a problem of lack of political participation and civil society; in my city (200,000 inhabitants, near Madrid), we the members of PCE are 65; the total of IU members is 250 (many of them are not real members, but I don't want to bore you with the tales of evil scheming and turf wars).

7. About Spanish devolution, I don't care much, but Spanish nationalisms are different according to the region: Catalonia has only neoliberal nationalist parties (right-wing CiU and centre-left ERC), Galicia has a centre-left one (BNG) and the Basque Country has two: right-wing PNV, and the only decent party of this list, Amaiur (strongly leftist; I dare to say, even more than IU) (shame on us).

[Crux]

Amaiur had a good electoral result, they took seven seats, two more than the right-wing PNV. Something which has never happened before and should make the rightwing fearful of the next basque elections.

[black magick hustla]

Not at all. See my other posting. In a desperate situation, people will prefer a bad alternative to no alternative whatsoever, and there were no serious left wing alternatives available at the voting booth.

The problem is not that the Spanish people are fools, it is that the Spanish leftists are fools.

-M.H.-

do you honestly believe some leftists can take state power and fix the crisis? don't you honestly see that governments, no matter if they are left or right, have been enacting austerity? how unmaterialist of you.

[Die Neue Zeit]

You don't believe much in principled opposition, rejecting coalitions, etc.

[Crux]

do you honestly believe some leftists can take state power and fix the crisis? don't you honestly see that governments, no matter if they are left or right, have been enacting austerity? how unmaterialist of you.

I dont see any left governments.

[black magick hustla]

I dont see any left governments.

pray and tell me, what is "left" then? i don't think the crisis we are facing today is a matter of who has the better policies. governments can't afford the welfare state and that is why they are cutting it, period. it is not an international machiavellic conspiracy of the bourgeosie against the little man. do you honestly believe the bosses want athens to be in a civil war, which basically is right now?

[Rocky Rococo]

Elections are yet one more wholly owned subsidiary of Capital, Inc. The only products they have on offer are your free choice of flavors of bourgeois rule. For as long as people can't understand they're locked in a funhouse blind alley, they'll keep on rotating throwing these bums out then those bums out, lather rinse repeat. Tommy Douglas may have been a social democrat himself, but his Mouseland parable remains true. He just failed to mention, or blocked himself from understanding, that his own party was also one of cats trying to rule Mouseland. We need a rhetorical tool as powerful as Mouseland, except one that urges people completely out of the bourgeois electioneering game.

[Crux]

pray and tell me, what is "left" then? i don't think the crisis we are facing today is a matter of who has the better policies. governments can't afford the welfare state and that is why they are cutting it, period. it is not an international machiavellic conspiracy of the bourgeosie against the little man. do you honestly believe the bosses want athens to be in a civil war, which basically is right now?
it was inevitable. And incidentally very profitable. Utilizing crisis as a way to further dismantle the public sector has been standard for a very long time. As for what is left, well PSOE and PASOK certainly are not.

[Le Socialiste]

My apologies if this has already been asked and clarified (I haven't read through the entire thread), but is there a percentage of how many people actually voted? The situation strikes me as holding two developments for Spain's working-class (if there was in fact little turnout): the growing perception of the political elite and their parties as little more than functionaries for the interests of private capital, and a loss of confidence in the institutions of bourgeois multi-party democracy. The rise in votes for conservate/nationalist elements of the ruling-class may not be so much a rise as it is a general abstention by broad layers of the population from a system they deem against their interests. At the same time, it's not like the previous government/ruling party had any intention of siding with the Spanish working-class (to do so would bring it into direct conflict with the interests of the national and European political-financial elite).

If anything all we may be seeing is a growing disillusionment in the 'effectiveness' of capitalistic parliamentarism, a shift which may come to reflect the frustration over an increasingly dire social situation (Spain has one of the highest unemployment rates in the eurozone - if not the highest). Thus, the voting in of conservative and/or nationalist parties could very well be an instance of a minority using the disillusionment of the majority to its advantage. Another interesting thing to look into is how popular the new government is. What's important is that the people's loss of faith in the system be used to foster genuine leftist sentiments, ones which - ideally - should evolve to the point of open hostility to the existing power structures and the institutions of capitalism. That's some time down the road, though.

Edit - I just read the post that said voter turnout was 71.8%. If this is the case, we can expect the working-class to recycle their previous expectations and disappointments in whoever leads the government at the time until sufficient awareness is reached by broad layers of the citizenry. When that time comes, the working-class will be looking for answers, and it's of vital importance that our comrades in Spain lay the groundwork in advance for the furthering of the peoples' consciousnesses, agitating for a return to class-based action and tactics. When the peoples' trust in the state has been strained to the point of breaking, it's our job to drive that final nail in.

Whether or not we'll be ready is another question (one that can't be resolved some time down the line, but now).

[Kombouto]

Amaiur had a good electoral result, they took seven seats, two more than the right-wing PNV. Something which has never happened before and should make the rightwing fearful of the next basque elections.

Yes, it's a good thing the rise of Amaiur, and PNV is very fearful of it. However, PNV took more votes, but Spanish electoral law favours less populated provinces (usually more conservative). PNV won in Biscay province, where more than half of Basques live, while Amaiur won in Gipuzkoa/Guipúzcoa (damn, what's the English name?), and PP in Araba/Álava. So, ironically, the electoral law has favoured the left.

Edit - Amaiur took six seats in the Basque Country, and PNV five. In neighbouring Navarre (where UPN/PP won), Amaiur obtained one seat, and Geroa Bai (PNV-led coalition) another one.

[Tim Finnegan]

Um, corporatism all the same?

Perhaps I should have rephrased my term "right-wing radicalism" to "corporatist radicalism."
The Popular Front really cannot be reduced to corporatism. The wave of strikes and factory occupations across 1936 not only signalled that the Front was balanced somewhat awkwardly on top of a growing wave of working class dissent, but on several occasions actually threatened to break free of it, occupying factories long after party and union officials told them to stop. Even the prospect of widespread nationalisation, a radical proposition in itself, became to be viewed by many as mere compromise! It reached the point where the CPF ended up not merely allowing the workers to be beaten back, but actively conspired to reign them in- that maggot Thorez declaring "One must know how to end a strike". The corporatism of the Popular Front, far from being the drive of the movement, was a side-effect that became its negation.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I stand corrected. I confused the particular French situation with the Comintern's Popular Front thesis.

[A Marxist Historian]

do you honestly believe some leftists can take state power and fix the crisis? don't you honestly see that governments, no matter if they are left or right, have been enacting austerity? how unmaterialist of you.

Ha, we are not communicating here.

Can leftists take power and fix the crisis? Yes, in the fashion Lenin did in 1917. Not by getting elected to office in a capitalist state and fiddling with taxes and negotiating over the debts with the bankers!

When I said none of the left parties had real alternatives, I meant that none of them are calling for the only possible solution, namely a socialist revolution as launchpad for a Europe-wide revolution. Don't negotiate with the bankers over the debts, seize the banks! Anything short of that is not to be taken seriously in the current situation.

Apparently you thougt I meant something different?

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

Elections are yet one more wholly owned subsidiary of Capital, Inc. The only products they have on offer are your free choice of flavors of bourgeois rule. For as long as people can't understand they're locked in a funhouse blind alley, they'll keep on rotating throwing these bums out then those bums out, lather rinse repeat. Tommy Douglas may have been a social democrat himself, but his Mouseland parable remains true. He just failed to mention, or blocked himself from understanding, that his own party was also one of cats trying to rule Mouseland. We need a rhetorical tool as powerful as Mouseland, except one that urges people completely out of the bourgeois electioneering game.

Er, what's Mouseland? Who is Tommy Douglas?

-M.H.-

[Lunatic Concept]

Dosent really bother me. All the socdem parties that were in power during the crash have now been replaced by conservatard parties, while all the right wing parties in power have now been replaced by vaguely left parties. World keeps on spinnin'.

[Crux]

Er, what's Mouseland? Who is Tommy Douglas?

-M.H.-Kiefer Sutherland's grandad and founder of the NDP in Canada. Mouseland is a pretty great and actually thread-relevant speech he made:
gqpFm7zAK90

[Geiseric]

I predict the same thing will happen in the U.S. within the next year. Mitt Romney or Herman Cain, some jackass moron will be elected before an alternative rises from the occupy people if it is still alive by that point.

[Demogorgon]

One not based on proportional representation...like Canada.

Conservatives receive 34% of the vote and receive a majority government.
The Spanish electoral system is more proportional as it is based on lists, but the problem is most of the constituencies are small, many having only three seats to share out. This gives the bias firstly to big parties, meaning majorities can be gotten without a popular majority and also gives a bias to regional parties as a party spread out will miss out in a lot of smaller constituencies but a party concentrated in one or two will be a big party in that area and win. All of this is quite similar to FPTP of course, and the reasons are not entirely different, but it should be understood a little differently.

[dodger]

I think this is broadly correct, but the problem is that SPain, unlike the Anglo-Saxon countries has a relatively more respectable alternative in the form of the IU. They maintained 11 seats and built on their strength from earlier but it's hardly enough. Arguably something like this dynamic worked in Canada where the NDP overtook the liberals as the chief opposition, although there the economy is not as in as much trouble as in spain.

So the question becomes, why do people turn the rightwing alternative instead of the leftwing alternative when they have the chance? In America or Britain, where the only alternative to the social democrats/liberals is the conservatives or someother lame group like lib dems or perot, I can see how reactions against the ruling coalition mean gains for the default opponent, even if they are further to the right, because people have no other protest vehicle at the polls. But why do people not embrace something further to the left when they have viable alternatives?

I'LL give you the short answer Marx...it's because there is little or no difference in the policies of any of the parties. They are all in bed with their city chums....all filching expenses ...all making a complete mess of the economy. They sell the nation to the highest bidder. Rupert Murdoch is the man they have to glad hand....not the electorate.

[S.Artesian]

They sell the nation to the highest bidder.

This is a bit off topic but we really need to keep in mind that the above language contains an appeal to patriotism, to nationalism, that effectively, and pretty thoroughly undermines class analysis.

The language implies there is a "nation" that has some sort of religious status, holy utility beyond its role as a platform for capital's, and capitalists', exploitation of everything that moves.