EDL splinter groups may target unions

[IndependentCitizen]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/19/edl-splinter-group-target-unions


Well, they already have in recent months. They've taken up a wave of violent attacks recently, and attacking Occupy LSX during Armstice day (classy day to do it, especially if you're a patriot).

I sure as hell hope all the UK users will be out on those picket lines.

[mrmikhail]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/19/edl-splinter-group-target-unions


Well, they already have in recent months. They've taken up a wave of violent attacks recently, and attacking Occupy LSX during Armstice day (classy day to do it, especially if you're a patriot).

I sure as hell hope all the UK users will be out on those picket lines.

The EDL is getting rather noisy these days, eh? Guess they are finally tired of being ignored as a non-threat. I trust the English unions have protection groups ready for counter-demonstrators?

[Grigori]

So the EDL is serious now? They must of gained alot of members after the riots.

[mrmikhail]

So the EDL is serious now? They must of gained alot of members after the riots.

They claim to be able to mobilise 12,000 members, but the largest rally they ever had, when they were a real force in the early 2000s or so, was about 2,000 people. So I believe they are just trying to appear to be a big thing in order to hopefully gain more members, but I still doubt they will make much of anything.

[Charlie Watt]

They're splintering, but it doesn't mean that threats should be laughed off.

[mrmikhail]

They're splintering, but it doesn't mean that threats should be laughed off.

This much is true, but I think they were in recent years averaging around 500 people at rallies, so they still do not mount much of a threat....unless whoever they are plotting to attack isn't ready to defend themselves. But the EDL has a thing about announcing who and when they are going to attack before they do it, so it should give anyone time to plan accordingly for possible violence.

[Tim Finnegan]

Does this mean that the right-wing rags will finally lay off about them being the embodiment of the "white working class"? Or will they just come to conclusion, in that rigorously logical fashion that we know so well, that the working class hates trade unions as well as foreigners?

[Charlie Watt]

In another, kinder reality, the former. Shame we live in this one.


Do you think the whole, pre-arranged, "we're coming to kick fuck out of you at X time and at X location," is symptomatic of the football hooligan element within the group? Every certinous Stone Island attired fucknut that I've ever met has indicated that that's the general protocol for meeting up with other firms for a rammy.

[Tim Finnegan]

I always think there's something vaguely reminiscent of tribal warfare to it. Like they all really wish they were saying "The host of Olaf Gutgrinder will face the host of Ragnar Bloodaxe at the Hill of Skulls on the Night of Carnage!", and they're just doing the best they can with what they've got. A bit like Dungeons & Dragons for people with less patience, really.

[Charlie Watt]

That's why I never get the sort of folk that say violent video games/films/anything are unhealthy. I could play some Skyrim....or I could go out and kick some bam's teeth in because he's wearing the wrong coloured top. I know which is the more healthy release of aggression.

Anywho, I suppose we should be thankful they are kind/stupid enough to let us know they're coming. In the unlikely event they get banned, they'll start with the more unpleasant shit (fire bombings, etc.) I'd imagine.

[aty]

[Note from Blackscare]

Apparently I can't delete/trash posts outright right now so I'll have to do this instead. Let me be perfectly clear: while I am personally not going to denounce any action against fascist/pseudo-fascist elements, this sort of specific, actionable discussion constitutes a security risk during a period of broad civil-unrest and (undoubtedly) heightened surveillance of this site, the largest predominantly english-speaking leftist forum on the internet (afaik). If you can't see the stupidity of being this blatant and specific in your discussions of violence, you need your head examined. The discussion of revolutionary violence in the abstract is of course absolutely fine, however.


Warning to aty.

[Allende]

Wow. Stabbing these fuckwits will not solve the problem. Their racist views will just get deeper. Well have them rioting in Asian communities-I for one don't want to see that! There is still the anti-fascist groups who always like to square up to these tits-besides, let's just hope England qualify for the next world cup and they all go to Brazil to watch it. I doubt the Brazilian's will take a softly softly approach!!

I noticed the other day, that the EDL has a Jewish section. Found this odd!!

I know the welsh section is made up of Cardiff and Swansea football hooligans/ fans but who makes up the Jewish contingent? (if anybody)


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.483956,-3.196965

[Malatesta]

the edl and infidels are scabs:
'The EDL and other associated grupuscules are scab organisations doing the self-defeating work of the ruling classes for them: they attacked the Occupy Newcastle site which is protesting against corporate greed and the unaccountability of capitalist organisations; they threatened to attack students who were protesting against education cuts and view all students as ‘middle clarse’ which is naïve beyond belief; and they opposed the massive march against cuts which was protesting against the decline in living standards, government austerity and attacks on public sector jobs and pensions.'
from http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/the-last-gasp-of-the-edl/

[IndependentCitizen]

Wow. Stabbing these fuckwits will not solve the problem. Their racist views will just get deeper. Well have them rioting in Asian communities-I for one don't want to see that! There is still the anti-fascist groups who always like to square up to these tits-besides, let's just hope England qualify for the next world cup and they all go to Brazil to watch it. I doubt the Brazilian's will take a softly softly approach!!

I noticed the other day, that the EDL has a Jewish section. Found this odd!!

I know the welsh section is made up of Cardiff and Swansea football hooligans/ fans but who makes up the Jewish contingent? (if anybody)


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.483956,-3.196965

I don't really think stabbing them will do much, but sure as hell beating the shit out them would be more fun. Stabbing sounds like their type of thing.

[Ned Kelly]

Not tough enough to be real hooligans so they join the edl..

[Charlie Watt]

I don't really think stabbing them will do much, but sure as hell beating the shit out them would be more fun. Stabbing sounds like their type of thing.

This. And if you end up doing time for one of these arseholes, I'm sure you'd rather it was months, not years.

[FaisalYorkshireanarchist]

I agree with the guy who said we should show them no remorse. I don't think stabbing them is the right way, but I think next time they show their stinking skins and come to some city to try and cause trouble, leftists and others should unite. UAF, anarchist groups, various socialist groups, MDL, we need to unite and kick the fuck out of them. They want violence, we'll give them violence, the vast majority of the british working class is on our side not theirs, if the pigs get in the way then beat the crap out of them too. We need to target the EDL, show them they aren't the only ones who can throw a punch.

[El Louton]

Stab them, burn their homes. Attacks on the workers movement must be dealt with hard and with no remorse. They should directly understand that this is not a simple fight on the street "hooligan-style", they will have a knife in their backs the next morning they step out of their home.

That is not the answer. That incites violence and will only feed their fire.

[IndependentCitizen]

That is not the answer. That incites violence and will only feed their fire.

Oh, okay. I'll lay down in future and let the fascist prick kick the shit out of me.

[Charlie Watt]

That is not the answer. That incites violence and will only feed their fire.

It is 100% necessary to physically confront fascists if they take to the streets. Their aim is to intimidate the working class and whatever group they're scapegoating. That is unacceptable and needs dealt with.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

We need to be more militant in our anti-fascist action and, the more militant they are, the more militant we need to be. There's no use saying 'I don't think that's a good idea because of X reason...', the fight has to be relative to the breadth of the problem.

The harder the come, the harder they have to fall.

[Malatesta]

I agree with the guy who said we should show them no remorse. I don't think stabbing them is the right way, but I think next time they show their stinking skins and come to some city to try and cause trouble, leftists and others should unite. UAF, anarchist groups, various socialist groups, MDL, we need to unite and kick the fuck out of them. They want violence, we'll give them violence, the vast majority of the british working class is on our side not theirs, if the pigs get in the way then beat the crap out of them too. We need to target the EDL, show them they aren't the only ones who can throw a punch.

there is this initiative:
http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress.com/
forget uaf, altho they turn up and swel antifascist numbers they allow thmselves to be kettled by plod. there are people in there worth getting involved in non-partisan militant antifascism.

[Blackscare]

Everyone, this is going on in multiple threads now: TONE THE FUCKING VIOLENCE TALK DOWN. I'm certainly no pacifist, but we don't need to be explicitly encouraging people to stab people and commit arson on a PUBLIC FORUM. Next person I see being this blatant is getting an infraction. Warning to aty.

Remember, this isn't a condemnation of any particular point of view, but you have to realize that this is the largest predominantly english-speaking radical left forum on the internet, we do not need you shemps calling unwanted attention to us like this.

[FaisalYorkshireanarchist]

well, like I said, I don't think stabbings and arson and whatever is the answer, cos that just makes us arseholes, I'm just saying, non-violence is not the answer. We need to do what has to be done, and that means going toe to toe with these twats and havin a decent scrap, that's all, we need to show them that they aren't welcome in this country, and they aren't the only ones who can fight. :)

[FaisalYorkshireanarchist]

call it 'self defense' if you like, if the old bill come knocking ;)

[aty]

I stand with what I said about fascists attacking strikes and the peaceful workers movement. They should be shown no remorse and the left should directly up the ante of violence to make them understand the consequences of this kind of action.
It is a totally different thing when they fight with militant antifascists, that is just to be expected. But when they turn to violent scabs we should declare war.

Hypothetically of course if they would attack, and that is not the case yet. And no I am not from the UK so I cant decide what you should do, just describe my point of view.

[El Louton]

It is 100% necessary to physically confront fascists if they take to the streets. Their aim is to intimidate the working class and whatever group they're scapegoating. That is unacceptable and needs dealt with.

Yes but the other guy said stabbing not taking to the streets.

[IndependentCitizen]

Yes but the other guy said stabbing not taking to the streets.

You didn't interpret it as he'd go find their homes, did you?

[Manic Impressive]

I actually think this whole situation makes a good argument against anti fascism. By opposing them we've ensured that they'll never realise their own interests as the people with the answers to the lies they've been fed are attacking them. Now those workers are lost to socialism forever good job anti-fa.

[Tim Finnegan]

I actually think this whole situation makes a good argument against anti fascism. By opposing them we've ensured that they'll never realise their own interests as the people with the answers to the lies they've been fed are attacking them. Now those workers are lost to socialism forever good job anti-fa.
How on earth do you come to that conclusion? :confused:

[dodger]

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? :confused:

There are more fascists in Whitehall...in my book

Parliament too.......to say nothing of Brussels.

In short we must respond to these few with measured responses or certainly we will look pretty much like them and certainly sound like them......just a thought.

[Manic Impressive]

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? :confused:
Well they didn't start out as anti trade union and anti socialism. They started out as workers living in near poverty conditions with little hope of employment, especially those up north. They get fed nationalist and racist propaganda by the state and by media corporations and they reacted to it. Now instead of increasing our efforts in attempting to counteract the propaganda and raise the class conciousness of these workers we throw bricks at them. It doesn't seem to be spreading socialism at all.

[IndependentCitizen]

Well they didn't start out as anti trade union and anti socialism. They started out as workers living in near poverty conditions with little hope of employment, especially those up north. They get fed nationalist and racist propaganda by the state and by media corporations and they reacted to it. Now instead of increasing our efforts in attempting to counteract the propaganda and raise the class conciousness of these workers we throw bricks at them. It doesn't seem to be spreading socialism at all.

Yes they fucking did, I unfortunately was active on their forum until February 2010.....

[Manic Impressive]

Yes they fucking did, I unfortunately was active on their forum until February 2010.....
and there was no anti-fa action against them at that stage?

[aty]

I actually think this whole situation makes a good argument against anti fascism. By opposing them we've ensured that they'll never realise their own interests as the people with the answers to the lies they've been fed are attacking them. Now those workers are lost to socialism forever good job anti-fa.
Huh? Why would we even want these few hundreds idiotic hooligans on our side?
Of course you must oppose them as they attack and divides the working class!

[Manic Impressive]

Huh? Why would we even want these few hundreds idiotic hooligans on our side?
Of course you must oppose them as they attack and divides the working class!
because if they were "on our side" then they wouldn't be attacking muslims. I'm not anti-fascist I'm anti-fascism, for me there's a difference I oppose the ideology not the people who have bought it's lies and for me the best way to oppose it is not to attack them as it seems as though that only strengthens their resolve. I'd rather put the case for socialism to them not by preaching but by giving them something they've probably never had, the truth.

[aty]

because if they were "on our side" then they wouldn't be attacking muslims. I'm not anti-fascist I'm anti-fascism, for me there's a difference I oppose the ideology not the people who have bought it's lies and for me the best way to oppose it is not to attack them as it seems as though that only strengthens their resolve. I'd rather put the case for socialism to them not by preaching but by giving them something they've probably never had, the truth.
And it is antifascism that have made them attacking muslims? No it is not. As long as they keep doing it we have to defend our class. You seem to think that the people in EDL dont have an ideology or some people who actually knows what they believe in and what they are doing. You are far to naive.

Was it antifascism that started the nazi-skinhead wave in England? No, it was militant antifascism that put an end to it.

We have to show them that this is not a game, this is not a simple hooligan-fight. It is far to easy for the majority of the EDL-gathering to just follow their leaders on the street(having a good time), but when it starts to cost something outside the streets they will fade away. And the leaders will remain but not be a threat anymore.
Dont give them victories on the street, attack them when they are less people and not ready to fight.

[IndependentCitizen]

because if they were "on our side" then they wouldn't be attacking muslims. I'm not anti-fascist I'm anti-fascism, for me there's a difference I oppose the ideology not the people who have bought it's lies and for me the best way to oppose it is not to attack them as it seems as though that only strengthens their resolve. I'd rather put the case for socialism to them not by preaching but by giving them something they've probably never had, the truth.
Okay dude, I'll lay down when they come running at me threatening to smash my face in. I'll lay down, because one day, he might become a comrade, and it's best I get the beating as opposed to him.

Direct action is great, but it often leads to confrontation in a physical sense because the EDL isn't just full of fascists, it's also got the odd geezer who just wants a fight. So, go on youtube, search EDL videos, find me one video where they don't fight amongst each other, or the police. Because the truth is, violence is a legitimate silencing tool. I'm not advocating in an all-out sense. Non-violent direct action can work, but as history has shown, it tends to lead to violent confrontation and therefore we must be willing to use physical violence to defend ourselves.

and there was no anti-fa action against them at that stage?

Very little, in fact it was predominantly UAF activity. The UAF would prevent direct action being used against the EDL. August 2010, in my home town, they came down. The UAF marched us straight into a kettle pen...

So, the answer is; yes, there was anti-fa action happening, but on a very low basis as the EDL was a relatively new organisation..

[Malatesta]

typical scab response by EDL here!
http://twitpic.com/7m3bzf

http://twitpic.com/7m4cum

EDL claim to represent white working class and when the public sector workers come out on strike they resent it. scabs.

[Stork]

typical scab response by EDL here!
http://twitpic.com/7m3bzf

http://twitpic.com/7m4cum

EDL claim to represent white working class and when the public sector workers come out on strike they resent it. scabs.
They just think the gov. should be able to do what it wants, whether it's stealing 'Brit's' pensions or bombing 'paki' children.

[IndependentCitizen]

Unison in town today (UAF scum) wtf....