discussions about military events and hardware (ww1- soviet afgan war)

[wellman]

since I havent seen many posts about military history ( happens to be my favorite type of history) i thought i would make a thread about it.

I would like to leave politics and ideology out of this. I would like to talk about the events from tactical and strategic point of view. also if anyone would like to talk about developments of military weapons for either NATO or warsaw pact countries I would be happy to as well.

I signed up here to learn. so i thought it would be nice if i shared what i know as well :).

[OhYesIdid]

When it comes to war, I find that most of us are of the anarchistic "militantly pacifist" persuasion. I love the history of warfare myself and find it hard to reconcile with my political beliefs.

That being said, let's begin with the most unsocialistic aspect of war: mercenaries.
I don't remember exactly the name of the first proper mercenaries, something like contratieri, they were veterans from the crusades who where hired by Italian merchants and city-states during the renaissance, I believe. Does anyone know more about them?
I read Forsyth's Dogs of War, does anyone know if it is in any way based on real events? Who can tell me more about the mercenearies' revolt during the Congo Crisis?
This is all to get the ball rolling.

[Winkers Fons]

Nothing un-communist about being interested in the history of warfare...

I haven't read Dogs of War but I do know for a fact that mercenaries played a very important role in Africa's post-colonial conflicts. That particular book is a work of fiction but it is true that white mercenaries played an important role in every conflict from the Congo Crisis to the Libyan Civil War. Many were just men looking for money and adventure but others were ideologically motivated. Although today the concept of "security companies" are more prominent, there are still more traditional mercenaries who are active in Africa today. Most of the people who would be considered "true mercenaries" are now native Africans but you can still find numerous white men willing to participate in Africa's wars for a price. Along with the former South African and Rhodesian soldiers you will now see many veterans of the wars in Yugoslavia and Chechnya (some of whom were recently seen fighting for Gaddafi). Basically, whenever a conflict ends there are always people who find that they rather enjoy fighting and wish to make a career of it.

[Metacomet]

Ohhh I like military stuff.

DAT-MEImJ9o

I think that is one of the most menacing looking weapons devised by man.

[tir1944]

Grad reactive artillery
http://www.aviapress.com/engl/alg/alg35009.jpg

[Metacomet]

When it comes to war, I find that most of us are of the anarchistic "militantly pacifist" persuasion. I love the history of warfare myself and find it hard to reconcile with my political beliefs.

That being said, let's begin with the most unsocialistic aspect of war: mercenaries.
I don't remember exactly the name of the first proper mercenaries, something like contratieri, they were veterans from the crusades who where hired by Italian merchants and city-states during the renaissance, I believe. Does anyone know more about them?
I read Forsyth's Dogs of War, does anyone know if it is in any way based on real events? Who can tell me more about the mercenearies' revolt during the Congo Crisis?
This is all to get the ball rolling.

Mercenaries pre-date Renaissance Italy. The Carthaginians used them quite a bit. They probably go back even further............I'd say as long as warfare has existed there probably have been mercs

[OhYesIdid]

Maybe so...nowadays one of the reasons I struggle with being interested in war history is precisely the ubiquity of current-day private corporations dedicated to mercenary work. By the way, do Libertarians also defend those sort of enterprises?

What seems fascinating to me is the mercenary's revolt in the 1960's. However, its mention in Dogs of War is the only time I've seen it referenced anywhere...hmm, that's suspicious.

What's the situation in Colombia, nowadays? As far as I understand, the new gold rush has taken the place of 90's Congo and 70's Brazil, that is, somewhat like the mythical American Frontier, but only more so. Who can provide info about this conflict? this hotzone of mercenary work.

As far as weapons, I believe the AK-47 is probably the most decisive weapon for its influence in recent history. The only thing I can think of that even compares is the Atom Bomb, or maybe the Predator Drone.

Awesome battles? Stalingrad and Kursk (yes, I'm something of a tankie). Further back, Austerlitz is badass, as well as Azincourt. It's very cool how Azincourt was decided by technology and the composition of an army, whereas Austerlitz was a product of Napoleon's indivudual genius .

Lastly: How was the Congo war (the "African World War") fought? I imagine it must have been just shock-full of guerrilla warfare with indiscriminate bombings and use of artillery. Although I've seen images of very conventional armies marching very traditionally. Again, can anyone give more info on the matter?

[Winkers Fons]

Maybe so...nowadays one of the reasons I struggle with being interested in war history is precisely the ubiquity of current-day private corporations dedicated to mercenary work. By the way, do Libertarians also defend those sort of enterprises?

Unfortunately yes, many Libertarians do support that kind of thing.


What seems fascinating to me is the mercenary's revolt in the 1960's. However, its mention in Dogs of War is the only time I've seen it referenced anywhere...hmm, that's suspicious.

All I know is that it was a part of the Congo Crisis in which a bunch of mercs and Katanges led by Jean Schramme revolted against Mobutu. They held out for a little while before escaping to Rwanda.



Lastly: How was the Congo war (the "African World War") fought? I imagine it must have been just shock-full of guerrilla warfare with indiscriminate bombings and use of artillery. Although I've seen images of very conventional armies marching very traditionally. Again, can anyone give more info on the matter?

I am more familiar with the image of most of the factions simply marching into villages and slaughtering the population. Of course tanks and artillery were present in the conflict, but they were mostly relegated to guarding strategically important locations since they were too expensive to risk in open conflict. The last Congo War was fought largely without conventional confrontations. Instead, you see a lot of rape, looting and ethnic cleansing.


My personal favorite weapon is the Mosin Nagant rifle. It is simple, effective and it has an almost unmatched history behind it. Since its introduction in 1891 it has been used in everything from the Russo-Japanese War to the current war in Afghanistan. I like it so much that I bought four of them.

[OhYesIdid]

The mosin nagant reminds of the m1 garand.
Ok, next topic: most important conflict in recent history? I of corse nominate the epic back-to-back Congo Wars, but I also suggest we consider the Israel-Lebanon war of 2006, which I consider essential because it is the first time, I think, that an, at the time, non-governmental organization, such as Hamas, waged major scale war against a proper state, and not just any state.
Of course, you expect me to mention Iraq, and I will: the first shamelessly private war and, possibly, the direct predecessor of major corporate conflicts to come.
There's also Afghanistan, for inaugurating the age of the predator drone. Lastly, how about the state of war that was lived on Brazilian favelas during the last decade
Oh, I almost forgot to mention the Naxals in India and the Zapatistas in Mexico, as well as the Coconut Revolution of Indonesia. What's your take on green revolutions such as these? What kind of tactics were used? I imagine good old fashioned guerrilla stylings just won't cut it nowadays, right?