North Kosovo independence?

[tir1944]

Do you support the "independence" (acturally the re-integration into Rep. of Serbia) of North Kosovo (where Serbs are the majority)?
Serbs from N.Kosovo want to become a part of Serbia again however NATO and the government in Priština is opposed to this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Kosovo

[Tommy4ever]

98% Serb? Yeah, it probably should be a part of Serbia. Don't see that happening though.

[rundontwalk]

If the people living there want to be part of Serbia clearly they should be part of Serbia. It's a wee bit hypocritical to support the self determination of ethnic Albanians but not Serbs.

[Grigori]

This is like opposing the independence of Akbazia. It makes no sense

[thefinalmarch]

I don't support the establishment of new bourgeois states, unless these establishments are the direct results of the overthrow of previously existing (slave, feudal, etc.) modes of production.

I especially don't support the establishment of new states or the transfer or sovereignty if this is part of some petty irredentist dispute.

Hell, while we're at it why don't we reverse the Treaty of Trianon and cede to Hungary all its territories lost after WWI? :rolleyes: It makes just as much sense.

Destroy all nations.

[rundontwalk]

I don't support the establishment of new bourgeois states, unless these establishments are the direct results of the overthrow of previously existing (slave, feudal, etc.) modes of production.

I especially don't support the establishment of new states or the transfer or sovereignty if this is part of some petty irredentist dispute.

Hell, while we're at it why don't we reverse the Treaty of Trianon and cede to Hungary all its territories lost after WWI? :rolleyes: It makes just as much sense.

Destroy all nations.
Sometimes people's interests can be served better by living under a new state, rather than an old one. Like Palestinians would probably be better off with their own state.

[agnixie]

I figure it will end up being a quid pro quo thing with Preshevo-Bujanovac for North Kosovo. I doubt it will do much for advancing socialism either way this gets resolved, but if it can just bring some semblance of peace, idk.

[thefinalmarch]

Bourgeois nationalism is utterly reprehensible unless placed in the historical context of the bourgeois revolutions which overthrew the feudal system, and in some cases slave society.

Don't ask me what I think of the Palestinian "national liberation" struggle.

[tir1944]

Don't ask me what I think of the Palestinian "national liberation" struggle.
What do you think of it BTW?

[rundontwalk]

Don't ask me what I think of the Palestinian "national liberation" struggle.
National liberation sure as hell beats being colonized, eh?

[Nox]

The Serbs can have the two tiny provinces where Serbs form a majority.

They can fuck off if they try and take any more, bloody imperialist dogs. The rest of the country is over 90% Albanian in pretty much every area, the last time that place was under Serbian control they were oppressed.

Source: My father fought in the Kosovo Liberation Army

[thefinalmarch]

What do you think of it BTW?
I knew someone would ask...

How Israel treats the Palestinians (and how many other bourgeois nationalist regimes treat ethnic minorities) is disgusting yes, but the struggle for an independent Palestine is a dead end for the working class.

There's no point in talking hypothetically about the pros and cons of an independent Palestinian state, because its independence would mean either the peaceful submission of Israel, or much more realistically it would mean brutal war (or the escalation of the current conflict), and this would involve the pitting of Israeli workers against Palestinian workers by the bourgeois nationalists, further dividing the working class along ethnic lines.

[tir1944]

They can fuck off if they try and take any more, bloody imperialist dogs.Borderline racism and national generalization.Nice one.


Source: My father fought in the Kosovo Liberation Army I wouldn't share that information with Revlefters if i were you.That's not really something one should be proud of...


How Israel treats the Palestinians (and how many other bourgeois nationalist regimes treat ethnic minorities) is disgusting yes, but the struggle for an independent Palestine is a dead end for the working class. In other words:long live Israel.Or did i get you wrong? I mean this is against the line of pretty much every Leftist organization/movement...


There's no point in talking hypothetically about the pros and cons of an independent Palestinian state, because its independence would mean either the peaceful submission of Israel, or much more realistically it would mean brutal war (or the escalation of the current conflict), and this would involve the pitting of Israeli workers against Palestinian workers by the bourgeois nationalists, further dividing the working class along ethnic lines. Israeli workers are already pitted against the Palestinian ones,IMO at least.The Zionist regime has the support of most of the population.There (in Isreal) are some ultra orthodox Jews groups and some others who oppose the existance of the state of Israel,but they're sadly in minority.

[thefinalmarch]

In other words:long live Israel.Or did i get you wrong? I mean this is against the line of pretty much every Leftist organization/movement...
Not "long live Israel". I don't know where you got that. More like "regrettably the struggle for an independent Palestinian state is a dead end for the international working class." Israel is a bourgeois nationalist state which we communists all share a common contempt for, but a truly independent Palestine will only ever be established through a bloody war which it cannot even win.


Israeli workers are already pitted against the Palestinian ones,IMO at least.The Zionist regime has the support of most of the population.There (in Isreal) are some ultra orthodox Jews groups and some others who oppose the existance of the state of Israel,but they're sadly in minority.
Well if you agree that Israeli workers are already pitted against the Palestinian workers, why do you want to exacerbate this intra-class division and hostility?

[mykittyhasaboner]

Self-determination is one thing. This situation however, calls for something more than nationalist land grabs. People of the Balkans should realize that these national conflicts are more about international class conflict, than claims to this or that territory. The whole history of the Balkans is defined by stronger powers preying on vulnerable nations and dividing them so they can gain from it. This is no different.

Kosovo is not Albania or Serbia because Albania and Serbia are bourgeois client states. All of these tensions are the result of US and European imperialism supporting the division and exploitation of Balkan people.


The Serbs can have the two tiny provinces where Serbs form a majority.
They can fuck off if they try and take any more, bloody imperialist dogs.
The rest of the country is over 90% Albanian in pretty much every area, the last time that place was under Serbian control they were oppressed.

Right, because Serbia is the source of oppression in Albanian or Kosovar communities. Forget the EU or US. Forget international capital and exploitaiton.


Source: My father fought in the Kosovo Liberation ArmyFor all the hatred of bloody Serb imperialist dogs, the KLA is just a pawn for imperialism themselves. It has been widely reported that the KLA were funded and supplied by US and German intelligence agencies and drug money.

http://www.albionmonitor.com/9904a/klacontra.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2824_kla_drugs.html
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/mar2000/koso-m16.shtml
http://www.serendipity.li/nato/kla.htm
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Kosovo/occupation/CIA-trained-KLA.html
http://www.impactpress.com/articles/junjul00/kla6700.html
http://balkania.tripod.com/resources/terrorism/kla-drugs.html


Divide and conquer. The oldest trick in the book, (and this is one of the most well known examples) but it seems that some people still don't get it.

[Ismail]

The situation in Kosova is the logical result of the chauvinistic policies pursued by the Yugoslav state, in which Kosovar Albanians were targeted as "nationalists" for wanting to reunite with Albania (which the Comintern itself called for and which the CPY echoed until after World War II) and in which they "enjoyed" the worst standard of living in the whole federation. After 1988 the situation turned into outright supremacism on the part of the Serbian leadership. Because the natural demand of the Kosovar Albanians for unity with Albania was denied to them throughout the 1910s-1980s, and because of the efforts of the Kosovar Albanian bourgeois intelligentsia to promote an "independent" Kosova under NATO tutelage, the situation of today has occurred.

An "independent" North Kosova is as ridiculous as an "independent" Kosova. The north can probably go to Serbia, but the south is clearly Albanian and belongs with Albania, not "independence" which was generally seen as a remote demand as late as just 20 years ago and which clearly does not solve any contradictions apparent in the whole dispute.