Rape does not exist?

[khlib]

This is the most sickening thing I have read in a long time:
http://www.michaelcrook.org/2011/11/15/ashley-billasano-did-not-defend-her-virtue/
This man uses his religion to prove that there is no such thing as rape. Is this actually the Mormon belief? Do people like this really exist?

[RedAnarchist]

Apparently, the unevolved specimen called Michael Crook wants people to blame him for his bile, rather than his precious Mormon church (and his bile about Billasano and his not wanting people to judge the Mormon freaks has an explanation here - http://www.michaelcrook.org/2011/11/16/judgeth-the-church-not/). Even his FAQ has a question denying that he is a troll, so he knows that he is being an offensive little shit.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Wtf is wrong with some people? I have no comment other than "WTF?"

[Commissar Rykov]

I could have done without reading that stupid shit.

[thriller]

Wow, what a fucking asshat. Last year I was listening to the 'Delilah Show' (radio show [yeah I know, super lame, twas my girlfriends car, so I couldn't do anything about it]) and she got one of those letters where people ask for her advice. It was from a woman who was raped and became pregnant. Of all people I guess she wanted Delilah's opinion. Delilah said "God is using your womb for that child, you must keep it". I screamed WTF ARE YOU FUCKING CRAZY?!?!?!?! It was taken off the Wikipedia page, but is back on I guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delilah_Rene

[The Insurrection]

This guy is a troll, right? He can't really have that view.

[Azraella]

Oh gods. Oh gods. Oh gods.

This is actually making me want to renounce pacifism and find this fucker and bash his head in.

[9]

Oh wow, an irrelevant religious lunatic who no one has ever heard of says something ridiculous on the internet?!? No way!!! This is clearly something that everyone should get worked up over...

[ZeroNowhere]

Wow, what a fucking asshat. Last year I was listening to the 'Delilah Show' (radio show [yeah I know, super lame, twas my girlfriends car, so I couldn't do anything about it]) and she got one of those letters where people ask for her advice. It was from a woman who was raped and became pregnant. Of all people I guess she wanted Delilah's opinion. Delilah said "God is using your womb for that child, you must keep it"
Why, why, why, Delilah?

[Misanthrope]

I want to post something clever but all I got is

wtf

[The Insurrection]

Oh wow, an irrelevant religious lunatic who no one has ever heard of says something ridiculous on the internet?!? No way!!! This is clearly something that everyone should get worked up over...

What difference does it make who he is or what significance he has when his views are so reprehensible...You're diminishing the severity of what he is saying based on who he is? I don't understand why you would do that? :confused:

[9]

What difference does it make who he is or what significance he has when his views are so reprehensible...You're diminishing the severity of what he is saying based on who he is? I don't understand why you would do that? :confused:
Because there are countless irrelevant weirdos on the internet saying 'reprehensible' things... if they have no real world relevance, why expend the energy on them? Or, more importantly, why give them the publicity? It just seems like a pretty strange thing to get agitated about.

[kashkin]

Some of these people do have real world influence. The amount of rape victim shaming that goes on is disgusting.

[The Insurrection]

Because there are countless irrelevant weirdos on the internet saying 'reprehensible' things... if they have no real world relevance, why expend the energy on them? Or, more importantly, why give them the publicity? It just seems like a pretty strange thing to get agitated about.

I'm not disputing that. What I'm confused about is why you would take this line of opinion in the first place. Who cares whether thre are lots of nutters on the internet, why would that stop people from being outraged?

[MooseCracker]

Is this actually the Mormon belief? Do people like this really exist?

People like this exist. i used to be lds/ a mormon (long ago) and it is an extreme right-wing group. As an example of some of their extremism, i remember when black people were forgiven enough to be allowed to be priesthood holders, it was i believe 1990 or so. They were granteed that right by a person who was the President and "Prophet" of the church who warned members (and as a prophet i could only assume that god agreed) that while members of the church may be tempted to start thinking that socialism offers steps towards god's kingdom on earth (offering equality etc, like what christians believe in) the truth is that socialism was invented by those 2 evil men Marx and Engels who's plan is to force people into these things by taking away all freedom of choice (just like the devil wanted during the war in heaven). Socialism represents the evil city of babylon in these latter days... Now i am paraphrasing but not exaggerating "president" Ezra Taft Benson's message was part of a satellite broadcast for a general conference and is still available (i think you can even find it on youtube).

That rant aside i have met Mormons who have even more extreme right-wing views but only one might even think to agree with that blog. The mormon that i'm thinking of is also schizophrenic. No offense to sufferers of that disease, it's just that sometimes he mixes up fantasy and reality and really gets into some raging thoughts on politics and rights etc.

i still know many mormons and 3 of my neighbours are mormon, so it was easy to double check the opinions on this. NONE of them agree with what was said in the blog. They know that rape has to do with control and dominance and has nothing to do with seduction, especially when it involves a parent or step parent (who's role is to protect the girl). They also agree that speaking that way of someone who took her life is completely unacceptable.

Part of the issue with religion is magical thinking and the addition of capitalist (self-help style) magical thinking just makes it worse.

[Commissar Rykov]

People like this exist. i used to be lds/ a mormon (long ago) and it is an extreme right-wing group. As an example of some of their extremism, i remember when black people were forgiven enough to be allowed to be priesthood holders, it was i believe 1990 or so. They were granteed that right by a person who was the President and "Prophet" of the church who warned members (and as a prophet i could only assume that god agreed) that while members of the church may be tempted to start thinking that socialism offers steps towards god's kingdom on earth (offering equality etc, like what christians believe in) the truth is that socialism was invented by those 2 evil men Marx and Engels who's plan is to force people into these things by taking away all freedom of choice (just like the devil wanted during the war in heaven). Socialism represents the evil city of babylon in these latter days... Now i am paraphrasing but not exaggerating "president" Ezra Taft Benson's message was part of a satellite broadcast for a general conference and is still available (i think you can even find it on youtube).

That rant aside i have met Mormons who have even more extreme right-wing views but only one might even think to agree with that blog. The mormon that i'm thinking of is also schizophrenic. No offense to sufferers of that disease, it's just that sometimes he mixes up fantasy and reality and really gets into some raging thoughts on politics and rights etc.

i still know many mormons and 3 of my neighbours are mormon, so it was easy to double check the opinions on this. NONE of them agree with what was said in the blog. They know that rape has to do with control and dominance and has nothing to do with seduction, especially when it involves a parent or step parent (who's role is to protect the girl). They also agree that speaking that way of someone who took her life is completely unacceptable.

Part of the issue with religion is magical thinking and the addition of capitalist (self-help style) magical thinking just makes it worse.
Blacks were given the priesthood in the 70s or 80s long after the Civil Rights Struggle and was largely spurred on by protests against BYU at football games. The LDS church during the Cold War adopted a very rigid ideology due to Benson and his promoting of the John Birch Society and his constant Red Baiting of anyone who didn't agree with him. There was a recent emergence of Mormon Anarchists and I don't know much about them other than they have a website:
http://themormonworker.org/

Mostly deals with dialogue of Mormons curious in more radical politics so it has a lot of religious articles but I don't read it much I was only made aware of it by the University of Utah's Revolutionary Students Union.

[Klaatu]

WOW, Crook... "rape does not exist"...ever been to prison?

[khlib]

Oh wow, an irrelevant religious lunatic who no one has ever heard of says something ridiculous on the internet?!? No way!!! This is clearly something that everyone should get worked up over...

The thing is, he quotes several Mormon leaders and theorists, so I am curious how common this belief is.

[Zostrianos]

I've heard of a lot of Christian and Muslim fundies who feel the same way. It's pretty disgusting, but it's also a standard attitude in hardline Islamic countries, like Pakistan where if a woman gets raped she might be executed for adultery; according to them, if a woman gets raped, it means she enticed her attackers and therefore committed a mortal sin. It's some really sick shit, and it's also found in the Bible, which explains why some Christian and Mormon conservatives would support this position. A couple choice quotes:

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

God also often commands the Israelites to take for themselves any women in any cities that they conquer, and at one point commanded them to kill everyone, including women who were no longer virgins.

[Zostrianos]

That being said, this Michael Crook is a sick puppy in other ways as well: he's a conservative (need I say more..:rolleyes:), a racist who opposes interracial relations, and he opposes social help for unwed mothers. Here's the vomit-inducing list of his belief (http://www.michaelcrook.org/politics/)s:


• I am a Republican, and a conservative.
• I oppose any sort of comfort or aid for illegal immigrants and their children, as well as their children and so forth.
• I am pro-life when it comes to babies. If an teenage/unwed female or a woman who doesn’t want a baby becomes pregnant, I believe she should place the child for adoption.
• I support the death penalty for those sentenced to death by a court of competent jurisdiction.
• I believe that interracial relationships/marriages should be outlawed. (More on the topic)
• I believe that there’s no such thing as rape.
• I believe all forms of welfare should be denied to unwed women who choose to keep their children, as society shouldn’t fund her choices (this does not include women who conceived the baby within the bonds of marriage but later divorced).
• I oppose any laws that legalize any marriage other than that between a man and a woman. This includes so-called “domestic partnerships” and anything else that makes a mockery of the institution of marriage. Furthermore, I do not believe that homosexuals should be entitled to any special civil rights.
• I believe all “Good Samaritan” and “render aid” laws should be abolished.
• I oppose the abolishment of Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell.
• I do not support the notion of Near Death Experiences, though many misguided members of the Church have claimed to have them. Anyone who claims to have had an NDE is an opportunistic liar in my opinion. However, I do sustain the Church leaders’ teachings and Church doctrine on personal revelation, which are different than NDE’s as the world recognizes them.
• I believe any member of the Church who in any way supports or condones homosexuality should be excommunicated.
• I believe any member of the Church who perverts the subject of spirits and the Spirit World should be excommunicated, i.e. Grant Wilson.

[Commissar Rykov]

The thing is, he quotes several Mormon leaders and theorists, so I am curious how common this belief is.
Among Benson-era Mormons? Probably quite a few especially in Utah. Amongst Mormons of today? I haven't seen anyone say something as stupid as this at least in public and I'm behind the Zion Curtain. They are rather prudish though about sexual relations and Utah Mormons tend to be racist as fuck without even realizing it. I blame it on a rather insular culture that has little contact with people outside of their communities and most historical contact they had was violent.

Utah Mormons tend to be rather cliquish and even discriminate against Mormons who come from outside of Utah as they are not of "pioneer stock" this isn't something promoted by the Central Church Organ but it is propogated by local authorities quite a bit. Corruption tends to be quite high amongst Utah Mormons as well since they don't view it as corruption if they are purposefully breaking the law or misusing funds because hey they go to church just like everyone else. Utah Mormonism is more of a gateway to social acceptance and career paths if you dare question the authority especially in small towns it can mean a lot of trouble in regards to finding work or being harassed by local government. It is amusing to watch Mormons divide amongst themselves as Utah becomes more diverse. You have one group who are usually rather young who are breaking away from the archaic and stuffy garbage they have been fed and tend to buck the system and ask a lot of unwanted questions. Then you have the older group who are desperate to keep control and keep Mormons in power though ironically they have begun trying to work with local Baptists and Catholics in order to at least have Christians at the helm of government institutions.

[Smyg]

Urge to kill... rising...

[Nox]

Why are people so shocked at this?

This man is just following God's word! (the bible)

[Iron Felix]

These guys believe that when Cain killed Abel, Cain was turned into the first African and thus all blacks today are his descendents. It's more of a racket than a religion though. Like scientology.

[Charlie Watt]

No more or less infuriating than anything else that I've read by other fundy fucktards. I remember reading about this saudi scholar no long ago, who was decrying the kingdom's new age of consent and marriage laws as a kufar conspiracy, and that beastin 9 year old lassies was perfectly acceptable. Same level of lunacy.

People that are that enthralled to religion are servile in the most absolute manner. They willfully surrender their critical faculties for preordained rules set by an intangible father figure. It's pretty fucking pathetic, really.