Tide is turning against OWS in the States.....

[RadioRaheem84]

I really am worried and frustrated that the OWS movement is losing it's luster among average non-political folk.

The media has really portrayed the movement as a bunch of drugged out hippies looking for anarchy.

Everyone I talk to that had a sympathetic view of them now sees them as "pushing it".

This nation is so backwards? They do not mind supportinrg movements in the Arab world, but when protesters block traffic on Wall St. then it's "anarchy", call the cops to remove the human debris.

Anything anti-establishment is seen as vulgar. This is unlike any other nation that I have ever heard of.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I can only interpret the media backlash as a positive thing since it means we are a threat.

[xub3rn00dlex]

It might be because they feel disconnected, which in large part is thanks to the media. Outreach with a message is great and all, but action ( even temporary ) that directly affects them can make them more involved. I recommended in another thread to block turnstiles and open the gates in the subways in order to give people a free ride. Jamming bus card machines would also directly affect them. Preventing traffic agents from giving parking tickets directly affects them. People who are a-political still feel change, especially in their wallets.

[RadioRaheem84]

It is true more than ever like Chomsky said. There is no need for an oppressive club to beat the nation back, propaganda provides that service.


People getting "tired" of the protesters serves as a testament to the power of propaganda.

[RED DAVE]

I think that you are unduly pessimistic and skeptical. Are you involved in any protests in your area today?

Remember that the media needs sensationalism for a jaded public. Every storm is a "perfect storm." Every death is a "tragedy." It is true that, especially after Bloomberg's raid, some luster has gone from OWS.

However, from a left-wing point of view, many of us have used OWS to make real connections to the working class, which, hopefully, will persist and flourish.

RED DAVE

[agnixie]

A lot of the people I've met in other affinity groups have been treating the movement as a huge dress rehearsal/way to build up networks for the near future. The longer the movement can last though, the better.

Truth is, a lot of occupations are only starting this weekend.

[Zealot]

I'm starting to feel the same, I mean I don't see where this thing is headed and fucking Bachmann has managed to pull better crowds. If they don't step things up a notch it's basically going to become more of a nuisance than the earth-shattering movement it should be. It will always have my support but it's just unfortunate that the public have become this pacified by the bourgeoisie.

The US has really gotten suppression down to a fine art. Instead of going out there with guns and tanks they leave them alone and try to make them out as a bunch of idiots. They've succeeded so far although they've upped the anti lately with police clearing the demonstrations.

Call me a pessimist but really my heart bleeds.

[DaringMehring]

We all wish it would be more and better.

But what it is, is pretty amazing compared to the political confusion and apathy that has characterized American politics for so long. Lasted two months in NY already...

There's a lot of fight in the American working class and that's only beginning to come into play.

[RED DAVE]

Call me a pessimist but really my heart bleeds.The question, Comrade, is not whether you're an optimist or a pessimist but what kind of political activity have you engaged in in the last two months?

RED DAVE

[agnixie]

We're still getting pretty massive support on the phone lines, email accounts, etc. Truth is though, it's not quite a poll, and it's people who can't be in the streets, but we probably get a bigger sample size than pollsters (although those who call and email to oppose tend to be the motivated ones, who send death threats and other bullshit; the things we get that are not positive otherwise are just people who want to know what we're about, and this is just a cross-section through what we get at occupywallst.org).

I am sort of vaguely still banking on the greek default happening "any day now", sadly I underestimated the sheer pride of the neoliberal order (also their ability to get their technocrats in charge). Anything really. Just something to make the system go down. Hopefully that fed audit would have brought outrage, but I think most americans don't even know about it.

[El Louton]

Surely the right wing press have something to do with the disapproval with OWS?

[Zealot]

The question, Comrade, is not whether you're an optimist or a pessimist but what kind of political activity have you engaged in in the last two months?

RED DAVE

You're right comrade and I felt a bit hypocritical while I was typing to tell the truth. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near any occupy movements, I'm not even in my own country. If I started anything here you can bet I wouldn't be around the next day to tell you about it. About as far as I got was convincing some American and British tourists I met that it was time for a change to our political systems. When I go back in December, if it's still going, I'll attend...promise.

[Decolonize The Left]

You're right comrade and I felt a bit hypocritical while I was typing to tell the truth. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near any occupy movements, I'm not even in my own country. If I started anything here you can bet I wouldn't be around the next day to tell you about it. About as far as I got was convincing some American and British tourists I met that it was time for a change to our political systems. When I go back in December, if it's still going, I'll attend...promise.

You don't have to make promises, and you don't have to feel bad about feeling one way or the other about OWS. Don't let some dude on an internet forum bully you into feeling one way or another about yourself and your activities.

You'd be better off keeping up to date and enjoying your time abroad and when you get back you can think about how you want to address the situation.

- August

[Jose Gracchus]

Some of you are really young. OWS was never going to be the revolution. However, it is part of the working-class remerging and relearning struggle. Baby-steps, with plenty of failures, is how the class will re-learn struggle worldwide.

Wait for the Greek default and the 2012 election season. Should be....interesting.

[x359594]

For me, it's difficult to gauge the popular public response to OWS. So far, my liberal co-workers are not yet unsympathetic, and my compañera tells me that her co-workers are either mildly sympathetic or indifferent (she works in legal services.)

It seems to me that corporate media propaganda is part of a two step process to crush the movement: first generate hostility among the public and then unleash repression.

[El Louton]

http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

They are evicting as we speak.

[Revolution starts with U]

No. It's really not losing support... not from what I can see anyway.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I like to think of it more as laying the most basic foundations for a network of like-minded people worldwide. When you consider the developments of the last year or two, it is impressive...people literally all over the planet have been involved in resistance. We all know about Spain, Greece, Egypt etc. but it's also taken place in areas like Swaziland, with the activity of the teacher's unions there and the resistance to the monarchy.

Check this (http://www.wildcat-www.de/en/wildcat/90/w90_in_our_hands_en.htm) out. Specifically, check out the part where they list all the labor actions that were taking place all over the world, at the same time that France was paralyzed by the resistance to the retirement law. It's considerable. I'm more optimistic about the future at the moment.

The media has definitely been hammering OWS. They've done the most to damage it, in my opinion. The state's response has been utterly stupid, though. It's not even productive from a ruling class perspective. If they had simply left the protesters be, they'd just become part of "the spectacle" after a while, but insane knee-jerk reaction to anything even remotely challenging the status quo or their arbitrary authority must be crushed!

Up in Fairbanks AK, the state government here has said that, while the protester's heat tent is technically illegal, they're willing to work with them on the issue. That seems like a much more sensible response than the NYPD method of conflict resolution.

[Veovis]

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say - We saw this coming a mile away.

It seems that in this country, when the working class and the disenfranchised begin to stand up for themselves, nearly everyone turns against them. All a symptom of the pathological individualism and severe lack of solidarity we suffer in this country.

Here in Portland, the news was griping about the grass destroyed in the occupied park. The fucking grass! I couldn't believe it.

[RadioRaheem84]

Everyone in here keeps talking about waiting til Greece defaults? Why? Is that just going to send the economic crisis into a turmoil? Will that provoke an outpouring of resistence?

[RadioRaheem84]

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say - We saw this coming a mile away.

It seems that in this country, when the working class and the disenfranchised begin to stand up for themselves, nearly everyone turns against them. All a symptom of the pathological individualism and severe lack of solidarity we suffer in this country.

Here in Portland, the news was griping about the grass destroyed in the occupied park. The fucking grass! I couldn't believe it.

In the United States, when your average American views French or Greek people protesting in mass they tend to look at them in disgust.

They think protesting is vulgar, unless it's done really neat and quietly so as to not disturb the social order that we value more than anything else in the world. Freedom of assembly, be damned, if they're talking about social change, then send out the national guard!

I mean, the youth and old left in this country support the movement, but at the same time we're facing off with a much more well funded vocal group; the so called "middle class", which composes of upper middle class conservatives.

The social order in this nation has a firmly planted propaganda system built into it, that will automatically denounce any movement that dares social change. We don't need a dictator to compel people back into submission, we are literally prisoners of our own presumptions about our society.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Everyone in here keeps talking about waiting til Greece defaults? Why? Is that just going to send the economic crisis into a turmoil? Will that provoke an outpouring of resistence?

It'll be the final confirmation that Euro Zone technocrats suck at life, which everyone already knows anyway.

[Veovis]

I mean, the youth and old left in this country support the movement, but at the same time we're facing off with a much more well funded vocal group; the so called "middle class", which composes of upper middle class conservatives.

To go along with this, there are entirely too many people who really should be on our side, but they delude themselves into thinking that they're actually part of the "middle class" (a false bourgeois fabrication, if there ever was one), so they end up on the other side. It's infuriating.

[RadioRaheem84]

The extremely pro-establishment comments coming from average citizens is what is disturbing me the most.

Stuff like, "mess with a cop, you're going to get beat", "get what you deserve", "they're causing chaos, they need to get an ass whooping".

A lot of Americans have internalized the logic of the status quo. Some love it and do not mind a cop taking out his revenge on protestor for grabbing his hat.

This is the type of stuff that spawns proto-fascist, nationalist movements.

[agnixie]

Everyone in here keeps talking about waiting til Greece defaults? Why? Is that just going to send the economic crisis into a turmoil? Will that provoke an outpouring of resistence?

Honest Truth: I'm not sure anyone knows at this point

The hope: Greece and Italy can pretty much pull down the European financial sector (banks like BNP Paribas for example) thanks to their splurging on CDS during the past few years. Basically more economic crisis, more outpouring in the streets. Maybe if we play things right we can actually radicalize more people, even in "middle" America.

But maybe I'm just dreaming and if it happened we might end up fighting for our lives against fascist freikorps, so yeah.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

In the United States, when your average American views French or Greek people protesting in mass they tend to look at them in disgust.

"You average American" = petty-bourgeois shitheads in the suburbs?

None of the people I talk to in "middle America" - people that are mostly white and blue collar workers, unemployed workers, or people with small time grinds trying to survive -- have said anything like that to or around me.

Sounds like you need to get some new friends.

[The Douche]

The extremely pro-establishment comments coming from average citizens is what is disturbing me the most.

Stuff like, "mess with a cop, you're going to get beat", "get what you deserve", "they're causing chaos, they need to get an ass whooping".

A lot of Americans have internalized the logic of the status quo. Some love it and do not mind a cop taking out his revenge on protestor for grabbing his hat.

This is the type of stuff that spawns proto-fascist, nationalist movements.

I said this in the first week of the occupation. That police brutality does not generally phase the white american working class, and the assumption is, if the police hit/spray/arrest you that you did something to deserve it.

I will say though, that I hear much more common "what were they doing to deserve that?". Its not a huge step forward, but it is a step forward, because it goes from assuming guilt, to wondering what they were guilty of...

[Comrade Funk]

They say the same thing about the Tea Party. In fact, OWS is much more popular to Americans than the Tea Party. You're always going to have people against you no matter what. People thought the anti-Vietnam crowd were stupid too at first. Just need to stay detirmined and not back down to criticism.

[Ele'ill]

I really am worried and frustrated that the OWS movement is losing it's luster among average non-political folk.

The media has really portrayed the movement as a bunch of drugged out hippies looking for anarchy.

Everyone I talk to that had a sympathetic view of them now sees them as "pushing it".

This nation is so backwards? They do not mind supportinrg movements in the Arab world, but when protesters block traffic on Wall St. then it's "anarchy", call the cops to remove the human debris.

Anything anti-establishment is seen as vulgar. This is unlike any other nation that I have ever heard of.

It is frustrating but don't give up hope. Several co-workers shifted from supporting it to not supporting it but upon talking with them one on one (away from each other) they were simply a combination of disappointed (because they're poor working class and wanted things to change) and misinformed (thanks to the news). What people say in public is often different or opposite from what they're actually feeling. 'I don't like confrontation and there's a limit to demonstrations like that...' in public to 'I really appreciate you being there and what you did was awesome.'

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Maybe it's 'cause I grew up around people like coal miners, factory workers, poor people, black folks, unionists, etc., but I don't ever remember anyone saying anything like "if the police hit/spray/arrest you that you did something to deserve it." Ever. And I grew up in some backward, racist, reactionary places.

[RadioRaheem84]

Maybe it's 'cause I grew up around people like coal miners, factory workers, poor people, black folks, unionists, etc., but I don't ever remember anyone saying anything like "if the police hit/spray/arrest you that you did something to deserve it." Ever. And I grew up in some backward, racist, reactionary places.

I live in suburban Texas, where the status quo is king. People here think saying, "it's the law" is somehow a good argument against anyone "complaining".

[RadioRaheem84]

Look it should be obvious to anyone that while in reality the majority of people see the economy is going to shit and will side with OWS, especially the youth and the working class.

But we cannot deny that in this country there is a sizeable class standing in opposition to us and it's usually composed of white, upper middle class, suburban managerial/small business class. They think they're America. They think they're preserving the nation's social order by supporting the cops in their takedown of the OWS. They think they're defending the country from "socialism".

We cannot deny that there is a sizeable force like this out there.

If we were to become any sort of real threat to the status quo, we'd have a Fatherland and Liberty (Chile) type of group ready to fight back against us.

[The Douche]

Look it should be obvious to anyone that while in reality the majority of people see the economy is going to shit and will side with OWS, especially the youth and the working class.

But we cannot deny that in this country there is a sizeable class standing in opposition to us and it's usually composed of white, upper middle class, suburban managerial/small business class. They think they're America. They think they're preserving the nation's social order by supporting the cops in their takedown of the OWS. They think they're defending the country from "socialism".

We cannot deny that there is a sizeable force like this out there.

If we were to become any sort of real threat to the status quo, we'd have a Fatherland and Liberty (Chile) type of group ready to fight back against us.

I fully believe that the US will be one of the last bastions of reactionary thought as the next revolutionary wave surges forward. And I think that once revolution starts knocking on the door here that it will be a very, very hard fight, and I think it will be very protracted. And unfortunately I think it will end up being very bloody.

But no amount of reactionary social conditioning or bourgeois military/police forces can stand up to the might of the organized working class.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

But we cannot deny that in this country there is a sizeable class standing in opposition to us and it's usually composed of white, upper middle class, suburban managerial/small business class. They think they're America. They think they're preserving the nation's social order by supporting the cops in their takedown of the OWS. They think they're defending the country from "socialism".

Yeah, the capitalist and petty-bourgeoisie stand in opposition to the interests of the working class. This is elementary information anyone here should know.


I live in suburban Texas

That's what I thought.

Fuck Texas. The south sucks. It's one of the most reactionary places on all of this earth: anti-union, anti-communist, segregationist, racist, etc. And the fact that it stands out for these things is saying something in this country, where reaction is the status quo.

That's a result of the legacy of the slaveocracy, the abandonment of reconstruction, and the refusal to finish the tasks of the Civil War.

If you're waiting for the majority of people in the southern U.S. to take up communist ideology you'll be waiting until the day you die... and then along time after that.

Fortunately, that doesn't really matter. The prevailing ideology is always that of the ruling class. Moreso in places like the south. And revolution doesn't come when 50% + 1 of the population "converts" to some left wing dogma we concoct in a coffee shop.

The south, like every other part of the world, depends on working people. Workers are forced into conflict with capital, no matter what's in their heads or hearts. People need to survive. When they can't do that, they'll fight or die. You can guess which path they usually take.

If and when a revolution does come to the United States, you can bet your ass that the forces of reaction will find the biggest number of foot soldiers in the south and midwest, with allies in rural sections of the north (like the "T" in Pennsylvania and the backwoods of New Hampshire). The forces of revolution will most likely be largely based in the urban centers, with allies scattered around places like the coal fields, old company towns, etc.

Lines will be drawn in each and every place, and things will certainly not fall along totally geographic lines; but if you take an honest look at this country, at its history, at the material conditions here, I don't think you can doubt that this will be the case.

[Fawkes]

I think a lot of what gets interpreted as apologizing for police violence is in fact more of an annoyance with protestor's "whining". Something like "they had it coming" is often not a disguised way of saying "good, I'm glad you all got your asses kicked", but rather "yeah, police beat you, that's their job. it's not police brutality, it's just police. come to the projects or a picket line and try yelling 'shame' when pigs start doing what they always do: brutalize and oppress". The solution is to just diminish the influence of the more privileged/benign elements by reaching out to other workers.

[RadioRaheem84]

Fuck Texas. The south sucks. It's one of the most reactionary places on all of this earth: anti-union, anti-communist, segregationist, racist, etc. And the fact that it stands out for these things is saying something in this country, where reaction is the status quo.

A bit harsh. A lot of workers are leaving the rust belt areas of the North and North-Mid West and California to come to Texas. They're escaping the high unemployment and absolutley immoral rent increases. They come to TX to work in crazy low wage labor to afford rather cheap housing. This is a put up or shut up state but it's still miles apart better from being an average worker in a northern major city.

That is why it's so reactionary here, because we do not experience the harshest elements of serious unemployment and high as hell cost of living, even though we have much higher poverty rates.

Workers here are living paycheck to paycheck and subsisting. In turn they're internalizing the logic of the system here and think that it must not be that bad after all.

Here a couple can make 12 bucks and hour each (which is living high off the hog) and afford a cash car, an OK half way decent apartment, and be able to eat out, go to the bars, shop at the mall, etc.

It's subsisting of course. It's giving up most of the rights unions gained for us. But people really think that it could be worse like in Democratic states where unions are being blamed for "scaring away business".

[Winkers Fons]

I think a lot of what gets interpreted as apologizing for police violence is in fact more of an annoyance with protestor's "whining". Something like "they had it coming" is often not a disguised way of saying "good, I'm glad you all got your asses kicked", but rather "yeah, police beat you, that's their job. it's not police brutality, it's just police. come to the projects or a picket line and try yelling 'shame' when pigs start doing what they always do: brutalize and oppress". The solution is to just diminish the influence of the more privileged/benign elements by reaching out to other workers.

I think you are right in the sense that the average white, upper middle class college student doesn't truly understand what police brutality means. Some clown shouting "shame" at a cop being a bit rough while arresting a person is going to come across as out of touch and more than a little bit ridiculous to a person that sees much worse on a daily basis.

[Fawkes]

Fuck Texas. The south sucks. It's one of the most reactionary places on all of this earth: anti-union, anti-communist, segregationist, racist, etc. And the fact that it stands out for these things is saying something in this country, where reaction is the status quo.

That's a result of the legacy of the slaveocracy, the abandonment of reconstruction, and the refusal to finish the tasks of the Civil War.

If you're waiting for the majority of people in the southern U.S. to take up communist ideology you'll be waiting until the day you die... and then along time after that.

Come on, that's really not a fair or accurate thing to say at all. Are reactionary sentiments more common there then they are perhaps in the north or west? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's one homogenous population. Look at Harlan County, the Battle of Blair Mountain, the textile strikes of 1929 in Tennessee and the Carolinas (many of the strikers being members of the multi-racial, Communist-led National Textile Workers Union), and just the enormous presence of radicalism in early 20th-century Oklahoma, Louisiana, Texas, and Arkansas, described by James Green as "the strongest regional Socialist movement in United States history".


Further, the fact that such strong anti-union, racist, etc. sentiments are still found there (as they are in every part of the country to varying degrees) is the result of capitalism.

Yeah, certain problems are far more prevalent in the south than anywhere else, I'm not gonna try to deny that, but there's a whole history of progressive labor movements in the south that shouldn't be ignored. There's potential there like everywhere else, just maybe a little bit more work.

[A Marxist Historian]

To go along with this, there are entirely too many people who really should be on our side, but they delude themselves into thinking that they're actually part of the "middle class" (a false bourgeois fabrication, if there ever was one), so they end up on the other side. It's infuriating.

There is a middle class, small businessmen, professionals, lowlevel management. They are the core of the Tea Party, scab construction contractor Joe the Plumber being their perfect role model.

The was a huge increase in the standard of living of the white component of the American working class after WWII, which the capitalists could afford as the US was the big winner and temporarily the top dog over the world. That was the material basis of a lot of white workers thinking they were now part of the "middle class." Especially as most of them moved to that new social phenomenon, suburbia, where they lived next door in similar houses to the actual middle class, went to the same schools, shopped in the same malls, etc.

The decline in white working class living standards since the US lost the Vietnam War has undermined the material basis for this false consciousness, but it hasn't fully broken down yet unfortunately.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

They say the same thing about the Tea Party. In fact, OWS is much more popular to Americans than the Tea Party. You're always going to have people against you no matter what. People thought the anti-Vietnam crowd were stupid too at first. Just need to stay detirmined and not back down to criticism.

Actually, the Vietnam anti-war movement was *always* unpopular to your average American, definitely including your average working class American, even after the war became even more unpopular.

A bit part of this was the perfectly accurate perception by workers that the anti-war protestors were more socially privileged than they were, "snotty nosed college kids who don't understand the real world" and all that.

In fact, OWS is *more* popular with your average white worker in America than antiwar protestors ever were, because they feel it relates more directly to their immediate problems. Even though, frankly, OWS is just as petty bourgeois in its social composition most places as the anti-war movement was. College students who no longer think they have a future are core elements of the OWS constituency.

-M.H.-

[Ele'ill]

So what do we do next?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Continue and deepen "Occupation" of foreclosed properties. The recent Minneapolis action was very good, the people involved did their research. More of this should be done. Could there be actions like the Argentine picquedoros (sp?) movement, on a smaller scale? An occupation of a workplace or plant that its being threatened by closure?

Is it too early to speak of a NYC "general strike"? Obviously the unions will subvert this but is there enough public pressure to force them?

Anyway short term creeping property occupations which the public can sympathize with. To sound cynical, police repression expands the movement and if handled very well this can be a tactic.

[Ele'ill]

Oakland's GA passed the west coast port shut down/strike proposal that I think is planned for Dec 12th. I think people should be looking at this model/tactic from a position of solidarity and not of an 'ok when is our turn' kind of thing. It really needs to happen all at once in other areas across the country. I'm not sure why there isn't more talk here about this west coast port shut down. Is it because it only involves the ILWU (that I know of) and it's 'to be expected' given the history of port actions on the west coast?

I would like to see these mass strike actions planned at the same time. Why is Texas planning for Nov 30th alone? It just seems very divided and the wounds opened by these actions are healed by the time the next action occurs. It's like we're doing this all wrong and 'now it's portland's turn! no wait now it's texas's turn!' 'now it's Oakland's turn!' It's because people don't actually think they need to do anything (action) themselves to change the world around them. They're still in this 'leaderless movement because that's what we believe but we're gonna use this model to maintain our same old status as slaves to petition upwards so that 1% can change things for us'. We're stuck in 'spectacle' mode. I like marches and I like mini bank occupations and I like clever signs but I'm too fucking hungry for that anymore- I need the main course first. No breathing room for the ruling class.

[workersadvocate]

The mass media has talked so much trash against #Occupy, but barely covered the UC Davis incident.

Why not massively occupy hostile media stations, and broadcast from there?

[Jose Gracchus]

How are students without jobs, and without prospects of real jobs, much less "coordinator"/"managerial"/etc. jobs for the 'middle class', "petty bourgeois"? I think it is clear we have this student dynamic precisely because most of them are going to be, or already are being, proletarianized.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

It probably points to questions of leadership and coordination.Right now "directing" the #Occupy movement is like herding cats. There are strengths as well as weaknesses in this.It is difficult, nationwide to coopt the movement but coordination is lacking. Many people are still what I might call "anarcho-liberals" (no offense meant to anarchists). We are still at the preliminary stage of struggle.As class consciousness develops more people will see a need for some kind of centralization. This most assuredly will not be led by a "vanguard party" but it must be led by someone, somehow.

Right now we have a series of spectacles, Oakland,Portland, NYC, Berkley, Oakland again. Not meaning to sound crass perhaps this is what is needed at this stage.

[The Douche]

What are the odds of an entire west coast port shutdown, honestly?

I mean, the port of oakland was only shut down because of the mass march right? Are we gonna have marches of 10,000+ in every west coast port city?

[Ele'ill]

Right now we have a series of spectacles, Oakland,Portland, NYC, Berkley, Oakland again. Not meaning to sound crass perhaps this is what is needed at this stage.

Yeah I agree that this shift in consciousness is needed but how long does the 'spectacle' mode operate before being shut down (as it is now) and without anybody realizing that there was another step necessary? I'm not talking about or expecting actions that would come from a fully united working class but a lot of these cities/activists/people involved are fully capable of shifting over to more meaningful actions. I think they need to otherwise this movement becomes another passing fad. This also isn't to discredit what they have done which is a lot.

[Ocean Seal]

The extremely pro-establishment comments coming from average citizens is what is disturbing me the most.

Stuff like, "mess with a cop, you're going to get beat", "get what you deserve", "they're causing chaos, they need to get an ass whooping".

A lot of Americans have internalized the logic of the status quo. Some love it and do not mind a cop taking out his revenge on protestor for grabbing his hat.

This is the type of stuff that spawns proto-fascist, nationalist movements.

Aha I found your problem comrade. Its not that the average American has a negative sentiment towards the OWS movement, but its that you've been reading too many internet comments. Tell me, are these people IRL who are telling you this, or people on the internet making posts on news stories. From what I've seen the internet tends to be among the most reactionary of places, where libertarians masturbate to each other's political opinions and write on their blogs about how its wrong to be PC and how workers/women/minorities are attacking the Republic and the one chance to change anything is to elect Ron Paul. I've seen these comments too, but only on the internet and Fox News, never from actual people. But this is a good thing, we are beginning to see a real consciousness. The more enemies that we make, the more the working class realizes who its true allies are. The media is not a neutral entity, it is the enemy of the working class. The bourgeois parties are as well, and so are the yellow unions some more than others, and these so-called small business owners who want to kill all the workers who are preventing their business from flourishing. There it is, the workers are finally seeing their true enemies. Expect another general strike within a year my friend.

[Ele'ill]

What are the odds of an entire west coast port shutdown, honestly?

I mean, the port of oakland was only shut down because of the mass march right? Are we gonna have marches of 10,000+ in every west coast port city?

I thought the ILWU shut down the ports and the march shut down the highways/city.

[The Douche]

I thought the ILWU shut down the ports and the march shut down the highways/city.

I don't think it was ever made particularly clear. If the ILWU did shut down the port, when did they do it, because it was running in the morning.

I've sent a text to my friend asking if he knows what it was that actually shut down the port, but I have a feeling that there is no clear cut answer.

[workersadvocate]

Doesn't anybody organize going door-to-door in working class neighborhoods for mobilizations?
Don't expect the workers to come to us first...especially when they're not sure what to think of your efforts and cause. Gotta knock on doors, listen, encourage independent working people to get involved, break out of isolation and/or middle class politicos fiefdoms. Don't be afraid to knock...be more afraid of what will happen if leftists don't start knocking like they mean what they say about the working class.

[Ele'ill]

Doesn't anybody organize going door-to-door in working class neighborhoods for mobilizations?
Don't expect the workers to come to us first...especially when they're not sure what to think of your efforts and cause. Gotta knock on doors, listen, encourage independent working people to get involved, break out of isolation and/or middle class politicos fiefdoms. Don't be afraid to knock...be more afraid of what will happen if leftists don't start knocking like they mean what they say about the working class.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/have-you-ever-t164421/index.html?p=2302090#post2302090

[The Douche]

So I just got off the phone with my homebro and asked about the port shutdown.

He said that the port was not shutdown until the first elements of the march made it to the port, so the mass march was an integral part of ensuring the shutdown, but he is also under the impression (and I had had heard as well) that during shift change the union organized a picket, and while political strikes are illegal, the union will defend its workers if they choose not to cross a picket. So by establishing on during shift change the workers did not have to cross it to start their shifts.

He also said that the massive turnout provided legitimate excuses for why port workers had to call out that day.


We agreed that in towns which do not have a mass mobilization, the ports will probably stay open.

[Rocky Rococo]

I don't buy the idea that support for OWS is waning. There was a small sidewalk march by anti-foreclosure activists in the downtown of the city where I work (of about 150,000), and for blocks on end they were getting nothing but honking horns and shout outs, people yelling out their car windows "We are the 99%!" I've never seen the city respond so positively to a demonstration, even at the height of the anti-Iraq War movement. I don't think most people even knew what the demonstration was, it just looked like an Occupy march, so they cheered. I don't believe support is waning at all, I think things are just getting started actually.