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Stew312856
17th November 2011, 08:25
We are seeing the greatest swell of Leftist action in some time now.

Where can we learn from our mistakes?

I would submit friends, citizens, allies, that there have been mistakes made by our forebears which we should avoid making again.

First, the Left's failure to decry Stalin's alliance with Hitler. Untold thousands died for this.

Second, the so-called Liberal Democratic Party's abandonment of Spain to Franco under Roosevelt and the beginning of the Second American Empire at the end of his Presidency with the beginning of our involvement in Vietnam.

Third, Joseph Kennedy's anti-interventionist policies toward all Europe, a vile racist tendency based in hyper-nationalism ('Keep our boys out of their war, we're too good to fight for them again') that is distinct from a true Social Justice movement.

Fourth, the transformation of the Peace Movement in the 1990's into a flacid and pathetic Absolute Pacifist Movement, with an absolute refusal to defend the refugees, Kurds, dissidents, and would-be rebels who were slaughtered by Sadaam Hussein in the final days of Gulf War I, a massacre George Bush I allowed to happen without any opposition.

Fifth and Six, Bosnia-Herzogevinia and Rwanda. Absolute disregard for human holocausts led by religious bigots under Fascist leadership which NATO and the UN only intervened in after massive public outcry, and then only when the situation suited them in terms of military hegemony in the region.

Seventh, of course, the pre-war protest about Gulf War II, totally out of touch and unable to counter blatant propaganda and lying to the American and British people not seen on a scale since the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

Belleraphone
17th November 2011, 08:31
Are you sure you're a Marxist?

Art Vandelay
17th November 2011, 08:39
I am really unsure what to think of you...:confused:

Stew312856
17th November 2011, 09:29
I'm not trying to troll here, want to seriously discuss praxis.

RED DAVE
17th November 2011, 10:39
We are seeing the greatest swell of Leftist action in some time now.Okay.


Where can we learn from our mistakes?Okay.


I would submit friends, citizens, allies, that there have been mistakes made by our forebears which we should avoid making again.Okay, but we usually call each other "Comrade."


First, the Left's failure to decry Stalin's alliance with Hitler. Untold thousands died for this.Some elements of the Left did oppose this. Most didn't.


Second, the so-called Liberal Democratic Party's abandonment of Spain to Franco under Roosevelt and the beginning of the Second American Empire at the end of his Presidency with the beginning of our involvement in Vietnam.The Democratic Party has never been a Leftist party. However, the Stalinists in the US acted effectively as the left wing of that party after 1936 although they did protest the betrayal in Spain.

As to the Second American Empire, the Cold War and Vietnam, there were plenty of protests.


Third, Joseph Kennedy's anti-interventionist policies toward all Europe, a vile racist tendency based in hyper-nationalism ('Keep our boys out of their war, we're too good to fight for them again') that is distinct from a true Social Justice movement.The revolutionary Left in the US supported war against fascism. The CPUSA did a flip-flop on this due to the Stalin-Hitler Pact. Why do you single out Joseph Kennedy?


Fourth, the transformation of the Peace Movement in the 1990's into a flacid and pathetic Absolute Pacifist Movement, with an absolute refusal to defend the refugees, Kurds, dissidents, and would-be rebels who were slaughtered by Sadaam Hussein in the final days of Gulf War I, a massacre George Bush I allowed to happen without any opposition.The Left, as far as I know, did oppose this while opposing the Gulf War.


Fifth and Six, Bosnia-Herzogevinia and Rwanda. Absolute disregard for human holocausts led by religious bigots under Fascist leadership which NATO and the UN only intervened in after massive public outcry, and then only when the situation suited them in terms of military hegemony in the region.The Left was divided on this. Some factions supported intervention in Bosnia. Some opposed it. As to Rwanda, but the time news of the massacres got out, they were practically over.


Seventh, of course, the pre-war protest about Gulf War II, totally out of touch and unable to counter blatant propaganda and lying to the American and British people not seen on a scale since the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.The pre-invasion protests on Iaq were as big as the Left could muster. As to them being out of touch, of course they were. The US and British populations had been snookered by their governments.

You seem to be much more of an ultra-left critic than a person who helps build movements. Are you involved in OWS in your locale?

RED DAVE

Stew312856
17th November 2011, 16:51
Have been active in local OWS gathering here in RI.

I single out Joseph Kennedy because his Fascist outlook framed the anti-intervention movement through and through.

El Louton
17th November 2011, 17:44
1. Now in China- Claims its Communist but have you seen the working conditions and the workers pay?!

Stew312856
18th November 2011, 03:30
China is centrally-run state capitalism, they actively suppress unions and the study of Chinese Labor history

Franz Fanonipants
18th November 2011, 16:42
I'm not trying to troll here, want to seriously discuss praxis.

You're a liberal, comrade.

In fact, it seems to me like you're actually an imperialist "anti-genocide" guy.

Stew312856
18th November 2011, 22:56
Being anti-genocide is anti-oppression, not technically a statement of solidarity with Imperial Wargame Hegemony.